How is this punishable?

Caffeine Pusher·Apr 20, 2016·4 votes·1,775 views

Just got a chat restriction. Only one game was cited in my report, so apparently we've gone from a standard of requiring a pattern of behavior, to just punishing players because a premade dogpiled one guy, and spam-reported him. I did nothing wrong, per my chat for the one single game that I am being punished for, as seen here.

By the way, I turned and carried this game, so the players who reported me are doubly trash.

Game 1 Caffeine Pusher: You wanna go top against mundo? Caffeine Pusher: I'll fuck fizz sideways Caffeine Pusher: lux? Caffeine Pusher: Derp? Caffeine Pusher: Kindred Caffeine Pusher: This is why you're silver Caffeine Pusher: You don't listen to pings Caffeine Pusher: wtf was that Caffeine Pusher: glad you literally never ganked for 15 minutes after I kept him pushed up, and pinged for support Caffeine Pusher: No English? Caffeine Pusher: Report kindred Caffeine Pusher: Refusing to com with team Caffeine Pusher: Kindred has said literally nothing all game Caffeine Pusher: Doesn't listen to pings Caffeine Pusher: Plays like a retard Caffeine Pusher: That's all reportable Caffeine Pusher: Why mute me? Caffeine Pusher: I've said nothing wrong at all Caffeine Pusher: What? Caffeine Pusher: If you're not obliged to listen to me Caffeine Pusher: I'm not obliged to be 'nice' Caffeine Pusher: No one has defined how I am 'being a douche' Caffeine Pusher: Yet here you are, name-calling Caffeine Pusher: top n f Caffeine Pusher: So let me get this straight Caffeine Pusher: You all joined together, and are dogpiling? Caffeine Pusher: Then why are you advocating for kindred? Caffeine Pusher: 10 top Caffeine Pusher: Bad team Caffeine Pusher: Interesting Caffeine Pusher: Smart gj Caffeine Pusher: You guys are very negative Caffeine Pusher: I feel dogpiled Caffeine Pusher: Considering I won top, but got constant jungle pressure Caffeine Pusher: You should be more accomodating Caffeine Pusher: ? Caffeine Pusher: You should stop feeding him, then ^.^ Caffeine Pusher: PS I won top lane Caffeine Pusher: Have a great day Caffeine Pusher: Aaaaand...muted Caffeine Pusher: ^.^ Caffeine Pusher: Feeder Caffeine Pusher: Huh? Caffeine Pusher: Oh they're bitching? Caffeine Pusher: I muted them because they're retards lol Caffeine Pusher: Also thanks for saying so mundo Caffeine Pusher: They were all complaining that I was salty, I'm glad to hear you say that I was winning Caffeine Pusher: Oh you all dieded Caffeine Pusher: These guys should build a statue to me Caffeine Pusher: Also, it's "definitely" Caffeine Pusher: Unmuted after I saved the game Caffeine Pusher: The god

49 Comments

MalhammersApr 20, 201611 votes

Just because they only referenced 1 game does not mean that it is the only game accounted for. Thats been stated by riot multiple times.

Caffeine PusherApr 20, 20163 votes

Sorry, but if they can't provide evidence of bad behavior these other games, then these other games don't exist. This is supposed to be a system of behavior reform, not a Kafka novel.

MalhammersApr 20, 20165 votes

[{quoted}](name=Caffeine Pusher,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=ZNHEti14,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-04-20T21:38:34.843+0000)

Sorry, but if they can't provide evidence of bad behavior these other games, then these other games don't exist. This is supposed to be a system of behavior reform, not a Kafka novel.

This is a privately owned/operated company. They can run it like a Kafka novel if they want...and you have already bought it ....several times over.

Caffeine PusherApr 20, 20162 votes

Thanks for your opinion, but I'd like to focus on the actual facts of this matter.

Deep Terror NamiApr 20, 20169 votes

It doesn't even matter.

In this match you were calling your teammates retarded, and threatening or lobbying to report someone just because they didn't speak English. English is not a requirement to play this game in any region, and not communicating is not a punishable offense.

If this reform card was from your email, sometimes it only lists 1 game due to email size restrictions. The reform card presented upon logging into the game should show 1-3 matches. If you have questions about your punishment, you can submit a Support Ticket.

Caffeine PusherApr 20, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Deep Terror Nami,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=ZNHEti14,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2016-04-20T21:47:37.172+0000)

not communicating is not a punishable offense.

If this reform card was from your email, sometimes it only lists 1 game due to email size restrictions. The reform card presented upon logging into the game should show 1-3 matches. If you have questions about your punishment, you can submit a Support Ticket.

Not communicating used to be punishable. It should be. It's absurd that it wouldn't be. It's a fast-paced team game. Responsiveness is essential. If it's not, then the behavior system is a joke.

Also, that is my reform card from in-game. So, what you're saying is that these should be more than one game? Well, there's not. So, is this evidence that Riot doesn't even want to uphold their own rules?

wormApr 20, 20164 votes

[{quoted}](name=Caffeine Pusher,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=ZNHEti14,comment-id=0000000000010000,timestamp=2016-04-20T21:51:34.592+0000)

It used to be. It should be. It's absurd that it wouldn't be. It's a fast-paced team game. Responsiveness is essential.

That is my reform card from in-game. So, what you're saying is that these should be more than one game? Well, there's not. So, is this evidence that Riot doesn't even want to uphold their own rules?

Chat restriction is generous considering some of the shit you said. Most people get banned for way less. I can't believe you're making a big deal that you only got one game of logs.

Caffeine PusherApr 20, 20161 votes

Please be specific. What 'shit' that I said is punishable, in your opinion? That's only part of the problem: nothing I said is extreme or even remotely 'toxic'.

Also, it is a big deal to be punished for a single game in a vacuum. All I've read from Reds is that this system is specifically to punish a pattern of behavior. I've only read that single games aren't a big deal, everyone has an off game, etc. This punishment is clear evidence that something is wrong, either with the system, or the way it's being presented to the community.

Deep Terror NamiApr 20, 20168 votes

There was a report option for not communicating, but nobody was ever punished for that alone.

They provide 1-3 games in your reform card. It doesn't have to 3.

Caffeine PusherApr 20, 20161 votes

So, you're just going to backpedal on what you said before? Now it's "1-3 games"? How is 1 game ever a pattern of behavior, which is the only thing punishable by the rules laid out?

Deep Terror NamiApr 20, 20167 votes

Backpedal? If you go back and read what I said the first time (you quoted it so you know I didn't edit it), I said 1-3 the first time.

You didn't just get punished for this one game. Your past punishments contribute to it as well. As I also said, submit a ticket and they can give you more information.

Caffeine PusherApr 20, 20161 votes

Wait, I can be punished for something I was already punished for? That's absurd in any system of reform. The law doesn't allow for that, how is this in any way legitimate?

Also, I'll pose the question to you as no one seems to be able to answer it: what did I say in this instance that is 'extreme toxic behavior' and therefore punishable?

MasterSomethingApr 21, 20165 votes

Caffeine Pusher: No English? Caffeine Pusher: Report kindred Caffeine Pusher: Refusing to com with team Caffeine Pusher: Kindred has said literally nothing all game Caffeine Pusher: Doesn't listen to pings Caffeine Pusher: Plays like a retard Caffeine Pusher: That's all reportable Caffeine Pusher: Bad team Caffeine Pusher: You should stop feeding him, then ^.^ Caffeine Pusher: Aaaaand...muted Caffeine Pusher: Feeder Caffeine Pusher: Oh they're bitching? Caffeine Pusher: I muted them because they're retards lol

I've picked all the punishable lines out of your chat log.

Maximum MordeApr 21, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Caffeine Pusher,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=ZNHEti14,comment-id=00000000000100000001000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-20T22:50:41.222+0000)

Wait, I can be punished for something I was already punished for? That's absurd in any system of reform. The law doesn't allow for that, how is this in any way legitimate?

No, you can't be. But your next punishment can be escalated based on past behavior just like a criminal history tends to influence punishments to be harsher in the legal system for repeated offending.

Well, with the exception that I've seen a few times. Sometimes people will appeal a lesser punishment then after manual review they get Lyte Smited to a perma instead of what the system gave them.

Caffeine PusherApr 24, 20161 votes

Nothing like Lyte doubling down on his mistakes!

archerno1Apr 20, 20168 votes

[{quoted}](name=Caffeine Pusher,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=ZNHEti14,comment-id=0000000000010000,timestamp=2016-04-20T21:51:34.592+0000)

Not communicating used to be punishable. It should be. It's absurd that it wouldn't be. It's a fast-paced team game. Responsiveness is essential. If it's not, then the behavior system is a joke.

Also, that is my reform card from in-game. So, what you're saying is that these should be more than one game? Well, there's not. So, is this evidence that Riot doesn't even want to uphold their own rules?

It was never punishable, it was used as placebo option so kids wouldnt spam real report options with nonsense like "trollpick" "pickorder" "not ganking" "not buying sightstone" and other non punishable things. Also as u said its a game. Each player chooses how he is gonna play, he dont have to play the way u want and u dont have to play how he wants. Both of u got to same elo with your own playstyles which means he has same success with his playstyle as u have with urs.

Caffeine PusherApr 20, 20161 votes

Source on it never being punishable?

Deep Terror NamiApr 20, 20167 votes

https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/201752984-Restricted-Chat-Mode#h1q3

Caffeine PusherApr 20, 20161 votes

That's not what that says, and it's not why I said that player should be reported. Your standards for evidence are extremely lacking.

Deep Terror NamiApr 20, 20168 votes

Caffeine Pusher: No English? Caffeine Pusher: Report kindred Caffeine Pusher: Refusing to com with team Caffeine Pusher: Kindred has said literally nothing all game

Players are never banned for not communicating through chat in-game.

It literally says that word for word.

Caffeine PusherApr 20, 20161 votes

It doesn't say, "this was used as placebo option so kids wouldnt spam real report options with nonsense," which was your claim. So, sorry, but your argument fails.

Deep Terror NamiApr 20, 20168 votes

I'm not the one that said that. Please ensure you are talking to the right person before making accusations and spam downvoting.

Caffeine PusherApr 21, 20161 votes

You were defending that original claim. Also, you've got a real serious crybaby problem, bro.

Deep Terror NamiApr 21, 20168 votes

This attitude is why you were punished :3 I never mentioned anything about what you are claiming.

Caffeine PusherApr 21, 20161 votes

Kafkatrap, much?

jimbomanApr 21, 20161 votes

I feel so bad for the board arbiters. They are just saying what's true, and you just bash them for trying to HELP.

DREADN0UGHTApr 20, 20162 votes

how about a source on it being punishable?

Caffeine PusherApr 21, 20161 votes

It was on the old form of reportable offenses, back when we had a legitimate system: the Tribunal.

ZombiemasterApr 21, 20165 votes

Yes, refusing to communicate was on the old form of reportable offenses, but just because it was "reportable" back then doesn't mean that people were actually punished for it. Reportable and punishable are two separate things.

Here is a link to a thread someone made about people not communicating in game at all, and in that thread a Rioter clearly states that failure to communicate, which is pretty much the same as refusing to communicate, is not a bannable offense at all. Note that this thread was made 5 years ago. Refusing to communicate was not a bannable offense 5 years ago, and it's not a bannable offense now.

Lastly, I don't think Deep Terror Nami was intending to defend the claim that "it was used as placebo option so kids wouldnt spam real report options with nonsense" at all. You asked for a source that refusing to communicate was never a punishable offense, and he provided a link stating that it's not.

AstôlfoApr 20, 20167 votes

I can't tell if you're trolling or just stupid.

Kei143Apr 20, 20164 votes

how have you done nothing wrong in that chat?

can't you see your toxicity all through the middle of those logs?

guilty. and your chat is much worse than the other thread you jumped onto.

Caffeine PusherApr 20, 20161 votes

Can you be specific? What exactly is said that is 'toxic'?

Kei143Apr 20, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=Caffeine Pusher,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=ZNHEti14,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-04-20T21:33:04.111+0000)

Caffeine Pusher: This is why you're silver Caffeine Pusher: You don't listen to pings (this is mild, but can be taken the wrong way easily)

Caffeine Pusher: wtf was that Caffeine Pusher: glad you literally never ganked for 15 minutes after I kept him pushed up, and pinged for support

Sarcastic speech that most people dislike

Caffeine Pusher: Report kindred Caffeine Pusher: Refusing to com with team

Phishing for reports.

Caffeine Pusher: Kindred has said literally nothing all game Caffeine Pusher: Doesn't listen to pings Caffeine Pusher: Plays like a retard

Now you are just outright attacking 'them' (Kindred = them).

Caffeine Pusher: That's all reportable

BTW, everything is reportable, but not everything is punishable. You can report someone for being "unskilled", but all that does is lower your own report weight.

If you were to play against slightly better people and get punished for unskilled, there will be no more low division players.

Caffeine Pusher: Why mute me? Caffeine Pusher: I've said nothing wrong at all Caffeine Pusher: What? Caffeine Pusher: If you're not obliged to listen to me Caffeine Pusher: I'm not obliged to be 'nice' Caffeine Pusher: No one has defined how I am 'being a douche'

Well ... You kidda agreed to not being a jerk in the ToS.

Caffeine Pusher: Yet here you are, name-calling Caffeine Pusher: top n f Caffeine Pusher: So let me get this straight Caffeine Pusher: You all joined together, and are dogpiling? Caffeine Pusher: Then why are you advocating for kindred? Caffeine Pusher: 10 top Caffeine Pusher: Bad team Caffeine Pusher: Interesting Caffeine Pusher: Smart gj Caffeine Pusher: You guys are very negative Caffeine Pusher: I feel dogpiled Caffeine Pusher: Considering I won top, but got constant jungle pressure Caffeine Pusher: You should be more accomodating Caffeine Pusher: You should stop feeding him, then ^.^ Caffeine Pusher: PS I won top lane Caffeine Pusher: Have a great day

Caffeine Pusher: Also thanks for saying so mundo Caffeine Pusher: They were all complaining that I was salty, I'm glad to hear you say that I was winning Caffeine Pusher: Oh you all dieded Caffeine Pusher: These guys should build a statue to me Caffeine Pusher: Also, it's "definitely" Caffeine Pusher: Unmuted after I saved the game Caffeine Pusher: The god

You are just being an arrogant jerk right now.

Caffeine Pusher: Feeder Caffeine Pusher: I muted them because they're retards lol

Calling others retards once again

TLDR: you are punished for being an arrogant jerk.

Specific enough? Are you still unable to see that you were being a jerk?

Caffeine PusherApr 21, 20161 votes

Actually, I call it being confident, not arrogant. Or in this game, an objectively true description of what transpired. I won that game for those players. As is reflected in the log my opponent, Mundo, even agreed with me. Those kids were toxic, and rude, and in his estimation, they should have been more grateful. But that aside, show me where it says arrogance is forbidden in the summoner's code, as this is the horrible crime I've committed.

Kei143Apr 21, 20164 votes

So here comes the fun question instead.

If I don't reply to you, what would you think? But if I reply to you, what will you think ?

You probably thought you won the argument cos kei is no longer replying as he is out of words for my argument.

you probably think that kei is trying to change the subject, and thus don't have an argument. Hence, rito's punishment system is flawed and here is the best proof!!

HexaDecimelApr 21, 20161 votes

At the end of the day your opinion about your attitude really doesn't matter. As per the Terms or Service that we all agree to your behaviour was deemed unacceptable and you have been rightfully suspended. There is really no point in arguing as it will not result in a change to your suspension.

If the game really means that much to you then it would be smart to create a new account and improve your behaviour so that you can continue to have access to the game.

Caffeine PusherApr 24, 20161 votes

Actually, it does. At the end of the day, I am a customer, and I am always right. If they want to try to suspend my account permanently, that's fine, but then I am legally entitled to a full refund of the money I paid for access to vanity items in-game. That's the law, and no amount of "muh EULA" is going to change that if I take the case before a judge.

But thanks for your input. It was totally worthwhile!

HexaDecimelApr 25, 20161 votes

Except for all the countless times that you agreed that your not legally entitled to anything regarding League every single time you updated the game. But whateves....

CooL Ice TeaApr 25, 20161 votes

Actually, it does. At the end of the day, I am a customer, and I am always right.

So are the people which reported you for your behaviour.

EvilDustManApr 20, 20163 votes

You called your teammates retarded and then continued to be kind of an ass in the face of whatever they were dishing out. Yea, this one log is worth a chat restriction. This is Riot giving you a little slap on the wrist to tell you to shape up

DREADN0UGHTApr 20, 20163 votes

lmao you're a poopoo head

Caffeine PusherApr 20, 20161 votes

I know, right?

FrankerXApr 20, 20162 votes

aaaaand... banned ^.^

you ask to report, thats toxic and against the rules.

nedzzzApr 21, 20162 votes

This is were riot needs to grow up ,,,,,nothing really wrong with anything here,,,,, THE WORST SAiD IS RETARD,,, REALLY? Why is this community so sad. Its like little kids control this gaem anymore,,,,, retard troll noob ,,, everyone of you use these words but its wrong in a game ,,,, Time to grow up riot

FovereApr 21, 20162 votes

Kell's attitude serves as an example of the issues people have with this kind of policy.

"Being a jerk", "arrogant", "sarcasm"

these are personality traits, and everybody has them.

You are basically restricting what kind of personality people are allowed to have, which is absurd and discriminatory.

There is a big difference between being "toxic"/disruptive and simply being unpleasant to be around. Since when is it a requirement to be likable to play League, or do anything in life? How someone interacts with the world is their choice, and doesn't trample on the rights or experiences of others. If you don't like the person, don't interact with them.

It's only a problem if they are using extreme language, or relentlessly attacking you. A single attack, criticism, observation, etc. is not harassment. If you keep doing it/refuse to stop, and use pings/in game behavior to sidestep the mute feature, that's harassment, which is rarely punished because its not accurately represented by a chat log.

Caffeine PusherApr 24, 20161 votes

Yup. It's why the millenial generation is a joke. They're the offspring of the 'helicopter parents', who need an authority to protect their pwecious feewings from the cold, harsh truth of reality.

GaleWinUnleashedApr 21, 20161 votes

That is one long chat log for a single game. If you're spending almost as much time chatting as you are playing, perhaps you should reconsider what you're using chat for. Try being more constructive; don't spend so much time "defending" yourself or calling out your allies' mistakes. Instead, offer high-level strategic advice and point out things that other are doing well. Occasionally you can tell someone that what they're doing isn't working very well, and offer an alternative tactic.

Funny enough, that's what this chat restriction is for. This is Riot telling you that what you say in-game is not doing a very good job of contributing to a positive player experience. You've been offered a chance to more carefully consider what you say, rather than just spewing whatever comes into your head. I suggest you use it wisely.

Caffeine PusherApr 24, 20161 votes

No it's not. What's your basis for comparison?