pros do that. streamers do that. if u do that (even with ur premade friend) the system just mark u as toxic and u get banned every 2nd game u play. its a competitive game after all. right now its impossible to not get banned by typing literally everything that is not "OMG GL HF LOVE URSELVES ENJOY LIFE YOU ARE BETTER THAN U THINK U R AND U R BEAUTIFUL PERSON"
GatekeeperTDS11 votesits a competitive game after all.
Your desire to be competitive (whatever that means) doesn't mean I have to sit through games with two people arguing with each other like petulant children.
Pumpedhero2 votesI mean.. technically It kinda does since the mute feature was added for a reason.. which also means that toxicity shouldn't be harshly punishable due to the ability to mute. it's the players own fault if their "feelings" get hurt etc.
GatekeeperTDS10 votesIt's not about hurt feelings, it's about jackwads disrupting the game because they need to spend time typing out their anger instead of playing the goddamn game.
S0kaX9 votesright now its impossible to not get banned by typing literally everything that is not "OMG GL HF LOVE URSELVES ENJOY LIFE YOU ARE BETTER THAN U THINK U R AND U R BEAUTIFUL PERSON"
No, that's just biased bullshit. I tell my teammates all the time that they suck and they should uninstall, and yet nothing has happened to me.
PekiCodex8 votespros do that. streamers do that.
While on camera they will often say stuff like "this guy is complete trash", often times they only verbally say it. It's not like they actually write in chat "u suck lol". As long as you keep quiet ingame it is fine. That's not to say that they don't write in chat at all. It could be Rito is just a little more lenient when it comes to pros and streamers, but that's just a theory.
if u do that (even with ur premade friend) the system just mark u as toxic and u get banned every 2nd game u play.
The poor bot doesn't know any better. It doesn't understand sarcasm or how trash talking works. And usually, unless someone reports you it is unlikely you will get banned. So whoever you do trash talk either got offended, or the players are not sure if you're trash talking or simply being toxic. So even if you're trash talking a friend, don't do it in chat due to reasons above.
"OMG GL HF LOVE URSELVES ENJOY LIFE YOU ARE BETTER THAN U THINK U R AND U R BEAUTIFUL PERSON"
I would find it cringy and hilarious if someone actually wrote this in chat.
Emperør Rhaast2 votesIdk I've seen moe and hashinshin, among others, verbally abusing their teammates in chat. Shit like "you're shit fucking uninstall", "is your brain working?" "you're all so fucking bad holy shit" "you're all dogs" stuff that would get anyone else chatbanned. If they're allowed to do it why aren't we? Blatant bias from riot.
Kei14317 votesThe thing about streamers not getting punished has a few interesting reasons to it.
So in summary, if we all played the same amount of games and got reported at the same rate, we can also stretch toxicity for longer periods without getting punished.
Pumpedhero1 votesjust to say "They play 10-15 games a day, which "dilutes" their toxicity" doesnt work, toxicity is a build up thing it sits there until it is reversed. its like playing Janga till it falls over
Kei1434 votesHalf correct.
The system punishes based on Consistency x severity. While the toxicity does stay on the account, when one plays alot of games, it changes how the consistency is calculated.
Unless they are consistently toxic 20% of the time, then them playing those extra games won't matter. But of course, we need to remember these are high ELO streamers we are talking about, so all the other factors play a part as well. They could be toxic in 20% of the games, but if they don't get reported in those games, it will serve as a game that dilutes the consistency as well.
Vonyalo6 votesStreamers do that verbally. You can do that too.
SgtAwesomeness3 votesI like calling people dweebs, nerds, bozos or chumps. Its ban proof and makes me feel better
ModPeriscope2 votesIf you have chat logs that you feel aren't punishable, then I think you should share them.
Nightsky Pirate3 votesIf you have a video of a full driving session that is free of violation, you're free to comment on driving violations.
Your intent is to invalidate him by pointing out how toxic his chat is, aren't you? That's pointless in this discussion, however. Nobody needs any qualifications, and that's why this board is useless to talk about behavior in general, except to help the uncommon person who wants to improve their understanding of the rules. I dare say, what you said is derailing in nature, and because you're a moderator and people love to upvote you as you embody the spirit of punishment and oppression, there's a good chance the ensuing chat will silence the thread.
Pretty much any chat that reacts at all to anything remotely negative can be construed as punishable, so long as the bot does the punishing. I don't know about you in particular, but some of your peers are very spiteful toward people who have the "punished by bot" tag. Again, he doesn't need to post logs for this discussion, they're quite pointless to his point and intent.
On topic, it is "BAD" to talk to someone who is being a negative contributor to the game in some way. In terms of the punishment system, nothing good can come of it. It's ill-advised to respond to any trolls, inters, flamers, etc, and it's a completely unofficial sentiment. One would have to visit these boards to learn that without having been punished.
Strictly in terms of the punishment system, nothing good can come from any chat. You don't need chat to get honors.
But people need to know that unofficial sentiment, and threads like this are one good way to do that.
Second-later-edit: HOWEVER, should you actually want to help him improve, I'm curious... because OP doesn't seem to want that.
ModPeriscope3 votesIf you're saying:
right now its impossible to not get banned by typing literally everything that is not "OMG GL HF LOVE URSELVES ENJOY LIFE YOU ARE BETTER THAN U THINK U R AND U R BEAUTIFUL PERSON"
Then there should be a reasonable amount of proof that would support that, such as chat logs that would not be deemed punishable by the community. If I agreed with the OP's statement, I'd have pointed him to players that shouldn't have been punished from their logs.
I don't know about you in particular, but some of your peers are very spiteful toward people who have the "punished by bot" tag. Again, he doesn't need to post logs for this discussion, they're quite pointless to his point and intent.
I think negativity begets negativity, which is unfortunate, and something we try to curb on the boards, and this sub-forum in particular. I do feel that when players come here genuinely curious about their punishment and are open to feedback, it's a pretty good experience (for everyone).
Nightsky Pirate2 votesAww, that's just a snippet of his post, and clearly an exaggeration. OP was very un-eloquently put, but he has the right idea: Riot does not abide responding to trolls, flamers, inters, etc, without using such flowery language. He's trying to say we should be able to, and while I've said kiiiinda similar things in the past, it's clear to regulars on the behavior forum that it's better to not respond at all unless able to employ Lux-like positivity (and even she has a little toxicity).
Its almost certain in his case, it's not a matter of re-wording to give his intended message, but forgoing the intended message (defense of some kind against an offender) entirely. It's irrefutably oppression when the path he must take is silence in face of trolls- for flowery messages is clearly not an option for him at this time, nor is it for most non-saints. Although the subforum is intended to help people grow, it's also intended to be grounds for discussion about behavior. OP is clearly going for the latter.
I understand your motive in suppressing negativity, but this is something that should be discussed. People need to discover better ways to talk to miscreants and not just slap a report on them post-game. League will be better for it.
TrulyBland1 votes[{quoted}](name=Nightsky Pirate,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=YO6Eg4Ov,comment-id=0007000000000000,timestamp=2020-02-25T06:42:11.900+0000)
Aww, that's just a snippet of his post, and clearly an exaggeration.
Which offers no basis of discussion. As it is, it's simply false. As an exaggeration it's vague and impossible to tell what OP's position even is, because we have no idea what exactly OP is advocating for.
For all we know OP could be suggesting we should be allowed to yell slurs at other players. (Which most people agree should be punished) Or perhaps just a bit of poking fun at the enemy. (Which generally is not punished) Or maybe OP holds a position somewhere in between that has not yet been talked to death.
Either way it seems like OP's logs should give a better insight into what they think should be considered an acceptable way of talking to other players.
Edit: At the end of the day discussions are a give and take. I'll try to put about as much effort into understanding your position as you put into being understood. Given that this reply of mine is already longer than the OP, I don't really have the feeling OP is trying all that hard.
Nightsky Pirate1 votesHad to laugh- yeah, OP here isn't much more than a catalyst. He is rather clear that he wants to be able to respond to offenders with more leniency in what constitutes punishment. By not specifying to what degree, he opens it up for discussion. Talked to death? Perhaps, but this entire forum is like leaves rattling in the wind. It's not a single one that gets heard, it's when the whole forest shakes. The sentiment in this thread is becoming more common.
Seems obvious to me; you can't so much as say "please stop being toxic to our JG". Well, you could, but by merely saying "stop being toxic" you'd be putting yourself at risk. That's really not cool. It's clear that the system isn't just punishing the worst 1%- I'm certain because almost every game I see behavior worse than what some people get banned for here. Someone makes a mistake that costs dragon? They WILL get burned, almost certainly.
Ironically, these flames go higher when someone defends. Trust me, I unashamedly use this fact that people defend aggressively to my advantage. Enemy goes to top lane while everyone else contests dragon, my team gets dragon and 4 kills? "Nice contribution in top, Syndra". Sometimes they'll let us know how toxic X is, an open invitation... "Care to explain, X?" Then ignore what they say. Often enough, their performance noticeably drops. You know how it goes. Just a little nudge like that is all it takes to set fires in volatile League.
BUT!
There are better, non-volatile ways to defend against toxicity without putting rifles down and taking up knitting. Humor! Respond back what they said, in your own words! Request a course of action! Take responsibility for failure but acknowledge something positive! DON'T TAKE IT PERSONALLY and DON'T RESPOND IN KIND. It's also effective to do this on someone else's behalf. Understand why the aggressor is acting up, and respond accordingly. Do they seem to feel disrespected? Are they feeling betrayed? Perhaps their expectations aren't being met?
It doesn't hurt to try once or twice to diffuse a situation by making the right response.
One other thing- toxic people are getting protections. Words like "toxic", "troll", "report" and others are flagged, I think, by reports. Just as "you're being hurtful" should not ever be grounds for punishment, nor should "you're trolling" or whatnot. While it's not exemplary to say, it certainly isn't awful, let alone particularly negative. Akin to murderers getting people punished for calling them murderers. So it seems. If "please stop being toxic to our JG" is not okay, I really have -NO QUALMS- with instigating fires as mentioned earlier in this post.
If I'm going to be discouraged from fighting fires on my side, I'm gonna do what I can to ensure the other side has more fire.
GatekeeperTDS1 votesI generally call a toxic flamer something like "half-baked ham" and that confuses them enough that sometimes they shut up.
Nightsky Pirate1 votesLol, that actually works? Since you said it, I believe it.
GatekeeperTDS1 votesI said sometimes they shut up. lol
It's not a guarantee, but confusing a flaming ragebaby is way more entertaining than muting them.
FlLL COSBY2 votesThe discipline system is run by a computer designed to make riot money. It runs it however best increases revenue. Unfortunately for you, banning peoples accounts and taking all their stuff that they paid for is a great way to make money, because they usually buy it all back.
AeroWaffle4 votes[{quoted}](name=FlLL COSBY,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=YO6Eg4Ov,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2020-02-25T05:04:29.571+0000)
The discipline system is run by a computer designed to make riot money. It runs it however best increases revenue. Unfortunately for you, banning peoples accounts and taking all their stuff that they paid for is a great way to make money, because they usually buy it all back.
Such a shitty argument born from bitterness with the system.
If a company bans you and takes away all progression you're proposing that the person is MORE likely to spend additional money compared to remaining unbanned.
First off, the number of people who misbehave enough to get themselves perma-banned is only a fraction of a fraction of players. Any money gained from such players is going to be extremely negligible and thus not worth trying to influence their decision especially in such a fashion that would cause a PR nightmare.
Second, people who are perma-banned are not likely to be happy with Riot. They just had all their content removed. Counting on people who are upset with the company to spend more money than before is like counting on a customer who hated their experience at a restaurant to visit more frequently.
Third, all purchases in league are optional. None of them are required to play the game. If someone truly believes that Riot has a diabolical plan to trick people into giving more money after getting banned then all it takes to foil their plan is to simply not buy anything.
KFCeytron2 votesSuch a shitty argument born from bitterness with the system.
If a company bans you and takes away all progression you're proposing that the person is MORE likely to spend additional money compared to remaining unbanned.
First off, the number of people whom misbehave enough to get themselves perma-banned is only a fraction of a fraction of players. Any money gained from such players is going to be extremely negligible and thus not worth trying to influence their decision especially in such a fashion that would cause a PR nightmare.
Second, people who are perma-banned are not likely to be happy with Riot. They just had all their content removed. Counting on people whom are upset with the company to spend more money than before is like counting on a customer who hated their experience at a restaurant to visit more frequently.
Third, all purchases in league are optional. None of them are required to play the game. If someone truly believes that Riot has a diabolical plan to trick people into giving more money after getting banned then all it takes to foil their plan is to simply not buy anything.
Two small things:
AeroWaffle1 votesTwo small things:
- It's "who" in these cases.
Corrected, ty.
- Cosmetics are optional in terms of winning, but there can be a lot of social pressure to buy this "optional" DLC.
Social pressure isn't really a legitimate excuse for someone making a choice to buy a completely cosmetic item. There's no more pressure to buy cosmetic items in League as there is pressure to buy any optional content in any video game.
Less so, since many video games (mobile often comes to mind) often sell P2W aspects.
KFCeytron1 votesCorrected, ty.
Social pressure isn't really a legitimate excuse for someone making a choice to buy a completely cosmetic item. There's no more pressure to buy cosmetic items in League as there is pressure to buy any optional content in any video game.
Less so, since many video games (mobile often comes to mind) often sell P2W aspects.
As always, the subjective nature of need means that what's true for you might not be so for others. Manipulative design principles like peer pressure and gambling mechanics exacerbate the problem.
Lest we lose sight of the original issue, I agree that the onus is on the customer in the specific scenario of continually repurchasing content through a series of permabans, because the company is no longer trying to convince the player to buy things but rather to go away, and the player is marching to the beat of their own drum. It might still be some kind of addiction or compulsion for that player, of course, but at least no external source is trying to push them into it.
GatekeeperTDS1 votesActually, he's kinda Riot in that a side-effect is that it makes money for Riot.
By punishing and eventually banning players who think that aggravating 9 people every match is the point of the game, the rest of us who don't have to deal with those people any more are more likely to continue playing, and quite often, spending more money. System is working as intended.
NuggetMilk2 votesNote that you can trash talk, flame and say whatever the fuck you want, as long as it's not in the ingame chat. The chat exists fro meaningful communication. If you wanna vent, do it verbally. Has prevented me from getting chatbanned even once throughout the 3 years I've played this game.
iBuild1 votespros do that. streamers do that. if u do that (even with ur premade friend) the system just mark u as toxic and u get banned every 2nd game u play. its a competitive game after all. right now its impossible to not get banned by typing literally everything that is not "OMG GL HF LOVE URSELVES ENJOY LIFE YOU ARE BETTER THAN U THINK U R AND U R BEAUTIFUL PERSON"
No, screw you [INSERT the most fked up sht ever here].
Board Post in the next fews days: WOW Rito banned me from having fun
Do you get why this can't happen?
Tele II1 votesNah. I think you snowflakey insecure fucks just need to stop taking everything to heart and learn to ignore flame. This is a competition after all. Not fucking twitter or wherever you guys spend your time arguing with complete fucking strangers like lunatics. Keyboard warriors are the most annoying part of the game.
Joe 2nd1 votesI trash talk almost every game and I didn’t get any form of pusnihment. Diffrence is being toxic players who blames and flames everyone from little BM. You need to know how much is too much.
Sukishoo1 votesTrash talk is different from spouting obscenities.
