Honor: Just another way for support mains to get hosed

Gimmie Death·Jul 5, 2017·2 votes·3,971 views

Just what it says. Everyone honors the carry not the support. Thanks riot for yet another way to screw support mains...

44 Comments

RiotRiot TantramJul 5, 201727 votes

We actually have data showing that all roles are honored equally.

SuicideAllJul 6, 20178 votes

I'd like to see that data.

AMYS GRAVEJul 6, 20173 votes

I'm actually a bit surprised with that result. When you say equally what kind of variance are we talking about? Is there a 1% difference between roles? 0.1%?

Squidwards HouseJul 6, 20171 votes

more like "is every role honored 1%" lol

Squidwards HouseJul 6, 20171 votes

real question: why did i get (on my other account) ~ 20 honors in ~ 30 games but only 1 keyfrag so far when a friend of mine got 4 keyfrags in ~ 40 games with ~ 5 honors.

Huang ShaotianJul 6, 20171 votes

I bet this doesn't take into account for premades. Considering people duoing bot together probably always honor eachother, yet that honor is worth nothing apparently.

DarkRitualJul 6, 20171 votes

I actually try to not honor my premade partner(s), since I know it has nearly zero value. If I feel nobody deserves it, I'd probably honor my premade and hope everyone honors someone so we get that small boost when everyone actually honors someone. At least then it's not wasted.

AptestJul 6, 20171 votes

too early for you to "actually have data". I suggest things are still in transient state. Maybe wait 1 more week.

DarkRitualJul 6, 20173 votes

Remember, this system was in another region for nearly a full patch cycle before it came out elsewhere. That data is significant and likely has a higher weighting due to players there having more time on it.

If other regions' data shows to be following suit, it certainly directs towards a trend of balanced honor distribution by role.

AptestJul 6, 20171 votes

I do not dispute the assertion that honor is approx evenly distributed. I definitely do not see the "no damage, no carry" idea flung around games (the opposite is true actually).

I just think that the correct data is not attained immediately after switching on the system. Just like with role selection, the end stable state (support secondary = support always) is only attained after events run for a while.

DarkRitualJul 6, 20171 votes

It's definately possible for it to start to trend differently after a patch or two. I would expect it,moreso if we get better honor categories, or a more refined system.

FiruJul 6, 20171 votes

That's good. It certainly does feel like support doesn't get as much recognition but I understand that it could be entirely a perception issue.

AmphysvenaJul 15, 20171 votes

What data? I would guess that the sheer number of honors created in premades dwarf does outside of premades. The premades I have been all want to "game" the system by rotating who they honor, and so that everyone always get an honor.

I solo queue the only times I have seen someone get a lot of honors is if they basically solo carried the game.

I´m gaming the system too though. I always tell everyone to honor the support, and always honor the support. Why? If this becomes systematic people will be happy to be autofilled support and might even take it up as a main role.

EndlessSorcererJul 5, 201714 votes

I've seen more supports receive the "most honourable" badge than any other role.

Competent supports will be recognized and acknowledged.

FioraWillCarryJul 6, 20172 votes

Yea, I see this as well. Supports get lots of honors.

SukishooJul 5, 201712 votes

Say what? LOL

I'm a support main and in all my games I have gotten 1 or more honors lately.

Liquid Poro Jul 8, 20171 votes

Same Got 4 honors for 2 games in a row.

archerno1Jul 5, 20175 votes

Funny, another guy opened thread how only supports get honor.

Mecha MaIphiteJul 5, 20173 votes

nice meme lul

Starcraft243verJul 5, 20173 votes

I pretty much always honor supports.

SavageConcordiaJul 5, 20173 votes

Play well, your adc will honor you. Support is the one role that will get a for sure honor if they play well because one person is guaranteed to notice it

AlienPrimateJul 6, 20173 votes

I get 3 honors quite often playing support. You just have to actually do things for your team the whole game to get honors on support.

DragfinJul 5, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Gimmie Death,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=KlrXEPk3,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-07-05T16:52:00.047+0000)

Just what it says. Everyone honors the carry not the support. Thanks riot for yet another way to screw support mains...

I will not honor carries unless they have at least high kills, low deaths, high participation rate and it all leads to a win. I NEVER honor carries in losses, ever. I honor tanks who build tank first and foremost or the support who really stand out. If this criteria is not met then nobody gets honor. I will not honor bad players just to honor.

ShadòwJul 5, 20171 votes

item 3070 waaaah i play the most brainless role and want the get noticed

SEKAIJul 5, 20179 votes

{quoted}

waaaah i play the most brainless role and want the get noticed

Bad meme is bad.

ShadòwJul 5, 20171 votes

truth is truth

Cup of CocoaJul 6, 20171 votes

If by brainless you mean needing to have the capabilities to peel for your adc (and team later on in the game), know exactly where to ward and where to Sweeping Lens to deny the enemy team vision, and having good decision making skills on deciding who to shield and who to engage on if you're that type of support (such as Thresh, Braum, Blitzcrank, etc)... then I agree with you.

ShadòwJul 6, 20171 votes

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

This Is Your DadJul 5, 20171 votes

I don't honor people with good scores unless they were nice. If you crack some jokes and at the same time play to win I'll honor you.

DragfinJul 5, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Anti Teemo,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=KlrXEPk3,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-07-05T17:19:29.062+0000)

I don't honor people with good scores unless they were nice. If you crack some jokes and at the same time play to win I'll honor you.

This is the beauty of the system. Honor who you want and for whatever reason. If you make bad plays after bad plays and never learn from your mistakes, you won't get anything from me, ever. I am glad that I have that freedom to punish the bad players now, who are nice and that's all they are. Just being nice don't win games but whatever floats your boat.

This Is Your DadJul 5, 20171 votes

The freedom of the honor system is that you choose what you find honorable. I find being nice and tilt-proof honorable, where you might prefer hard carries and shotcallers as honorable. We each honor who we want, and they both get recognized in their own way.

DragfinJul 5, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Anti Teemo,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=KlrXEPk3,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2017-07-05T19:29:28.502+0000)

The freedom of the honor system is that you choose what you find honorable. I find being nice and tilt-proof honorable, where you might prefer hard carries and shotcallers as honorable. We each honor who we want, and they both get recognized in their own way.

I just prefer players who play the game as intended. They don't need to be hard carries and shot callers. At level 30 you should be able to display a basic knowledge about the game in a consistent manner. Those that refuse to do that ruins games and deserve nothing. I have the ability to punish them and that's a step in the right direction no matter how small it might be. Hopefully, RIOT will build on this and eventually gaming will have a handful of bad players like it used to be. Today it is the opposite.

DeathBurstJul 5, 20171 votes

Except you don't "punish" people by not honoring them. They lose nothing, and even if you had honored them, they would gain very little beyond an ego boost.

DragfinJul 6, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Except you don't "punish" people by not honoring them. They lose nothing, and even if you had honored them, they would gain very little beyond an ego boost.

Every little bit bad players don't get is satisfaction for me. Level 30's who can't display simple basic league actions ruin games and cause most of the toxicity in the game and this is a step in the right direction to either making them better players and contributing to their teams or they don't get squat. I really hope RIOT takes it further. I would much rather play with people who strive to improve and learn from their mistakes then those that don't. It's creates a better overall atmosphere. I guarantee the chat toxicity would go down as well.

DeathBurstJul 6, 20171 votes

But they WILL "get squat", even if you don't honor them, that's what you fail to understand. Honor will change absolutely nothing about what you're talking about.

You get all the keys you want at Lvl2 and everyone starts Lvl2. You get random chances at Capsules from Lvl3. Even assuming enough people think like you (which I'm far from convinced) so that "bad" players climb slower in Honor, the thing is, they don't need to climb at all, and you don't need to be honored to climb at all.

######(As a quick aside, between the noob who's making dumb mistakes and doesn't try to improve and the veteran who gets tilted by that attitude and flames him in return, I still consider most of the responsibility lays on the veteran, not the noob. Not only will I NOT honor the flaming veteran even if he carried, but I will totally report him.)

DragfinJul 6, 20171 votes

{quoted}

But they WILL "get squat", even if you don't honor them, that's what you fail to understand. Honor will change absolutely nothing about what you're talking about.

You get all the keys you want at Lvl2 and everyone starts Lvl2. You get random chances at Capsules from Lvl3. Even assuming enough people think like you (which I'm far from convinced) so that "bad" players climb slower in Honor, the thing is, they don't need to climb at all, and you don't need to be honored to climb at all.

######(As a quick aside, between the noob who's making dumb mistakes and doesn't try to improve and the veteran who gets tilted by that attitude and flames him in return, I still consider most of the responsibility lays on the veteran, not the noob. Not only will I NOT honor the flaming veteran even if he carried, but I will totally report him.)

And you fail to understand that the beauty of the system is It's your choice to honor or not according to your criteria. Agree to disagree. That is my criteria and you can have you opinion because it's your right.

Also the system is such that if everyone honors then everyone gets a small bit of honor. If I have a good game and my team honors me but I feel nobody else is deserving for whatever reason then I don't honor anyone. I received honor that game and other people didn't. That is why this system is great and why I think overall play will improve over time because bad players are going to recognize that they are not moving up as fast as they could be if they would put in a little effort. There are rewards. We live in a society where material shit (virtual or otherwise) means things to people for whatever reason. I could care less but I know many do care.

I never talked about flaming anyone, you assumed something that wasn't there. Bad players ruin games especially when they are level 30 and know nothing and never improve. They create a toxic atmosphere by their ignorance and cause people to tilt. I could care less what you think about that but there are two sides to the toxicity story and what too many players wish to see is only what pops up in their chat box and not the reason it happens in the first place most of the time. If these players would just look in the mirror they would see that maybe they are the reason they get flamed. A bad player with a brain would understand that and decide whether or not a MOBA is a game they should be playing in the first place or focus on improving their play.

DeathBurstJul 6, 20171 votes

Let's make it quick and simple: IT WILL NOT IMPROVE ANYTHING YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT BECAUSE PEOPLE DON'T LOSE ANYTHING IF THEY ARE NOT HONORED.

And you fail to understand that the beauty of the system is It's your choice to honor or not according to your criteria.

I agree with you. You do whatever you want, I don't care. But you told me your reasoning, so I feel obliged to inform you that your reasoning is fucking wrong. You can do whatever your want with your honor, but what you're currently doing won't help you reach the goal you're aiming for. I'm not judging your goal. On that point, yes, agreed to disagree, but your methods aren't moving you closer to your own goal.

Also the system is such [...] I received honor that game and other people didn't.

Cool, and so what? People still move up in honor just by playing, and they get the vast majority of reward barely at level 3, no need to grind up to level 5.

bad players are going to recognize that they are not moving up as fast as they could be if they would put in a little effort

No, you're fooling yourself. First off, there is no visible indicator of progress, and Riot is hammering everywhere that you don't need to get Honored to climb, that just playing and keeping it quiet is enough, so they won't "recognize". Secondly, I repeat, you don't get anything special for grinding up to level 5, so even if they do recognize, they won't care. Thirdly, getting better at this game requires first and foremost consistency, so even if they do care, they won't stay motivated long enough for change to actually happen. Don't expect any improvement from Honor on that side of things.

I never talked about flaming anyone, you assumed something that wasn't there.

I didn't assumed anything. I explained what I would do in presence of certain behaviors, I didn't say you were actually doing that personally. Also, it was clearly indicated as a lesser point, small font, parenthesis, everything. So maybe don't spend half your comment responding to it if you don't feel targeted. But YOU mentioned a toxic environment. An environment doesn't become toxic by itself. SOMEONE must be flaming, or it wouldn't be toxic. Maybe there is a trigger, and maybe that's bad players. But ultimately, they're not doing the flaming themselves. You're always responsible for your own acts, whatever triggered them. And if you're so keen to improve and get better, you shouldn't meet so many such players as you climb up in Rank. If you do, and if you're stuck, it means you're just as bad as them, maybe on different aspects of the game, but you shouldn't judge them.

DragfinJul 6, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Let's make it quick and simple: IT WILL NOT IMPROVE ANYTHING YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT BECAUSE PEOPLE DON'T LOSE ANYTHING IF THEY ARE NOT HONORED.

I agree with you. You do whatever you want, I don't care. But you told me your reasoning, so I feel obliged to inform you that your reasoning is fucking wrong. You can do whatever your want with your honor, but what you're currently doing won't help you reach the goal you're aiming for. I'm not judging your goal. On that point, yes, agreed to disagree, but your methods aren't moving you closer to your own goal.

Cool, and so what? People still move up in honor just by playing, and they get the vast majority of reward barely at level 3, no need to grind up to level 5.

No, you're fooling yourself. First off, there is no visible indicator of progress, and Riot is hammering everywhere that you don't need to get Honored to climb, that just playing and keeping it quiet is enough, so they won't "recognize". Secondly, I repeat, you don't get anything special for grinding up to level 5, so even if they do recognize, they won't care. Thirdly, getting better at this game requires first and foremost consistency, so even if they do care, they won't stay motivated long enough for change to actually happen. Don't expect any improvement from Honor on that side of things.

I didn't assumed anything. I explained what I would do in presence of certain behaviors, I didn't say you were actually doing that personally. Also, it was clearly indicated as a lesser point, small font, parenthesis, everything. So maybe don't spend half your comment responding to it if you don't feel targeted. But YOU mentioned a toxic environment. An environment doesn't become toxic by itself. SOMEONE must be flaming, or it wouldn't be toxic. Maybe there is a trigger, and maybe that's bad players. But ultimately, they're not doing the flaming themselves. You're always responsible for your own acts, whatever triggered them. And if you're so keen to improve and get better, you shouldn't meet so many such players as you climb up in Rank. If you do, and if you're stuck, it means you're just as bad as them, maybe on different aspects of the game, but you shouldn't judge them.

You are very naïve to think that todays players will settle for rising slowly if they never get any honor. So yes, you are right but very naïve to think it doesn't really matter to alot of the player base. LOL, have a nice day and thanks for the smiles.

Warning ShotJul 5, 20171 votes

I always honor whoever bitches the least during the game. just so happens being an adc main that a LOT of supports that are randoms have terrible attitudes. Especially if you don't play exactly the way they want you to.

zarxus1234Jul 5, 20171 votes

How are you getting screwed as a support main right now? You have some of the strongest items in the game. The shortest queue times. Almost always guaranteed to get your role. Your champs are rarely banned compared to the carries.

I really want to know how you are getting screwed over as a support right now? Please explain.

AptestJul 6, 20171 votes

my question for you is this: which strong items do supports have, that are also FUN items?