Is it okay...

MustardTigerMK·Jan 24, 2019·2 votes·2,466 views

Is it okay to report two people for being toxic to one another? No toxicity was thrown directly your way. Muting them both would be the right thing to do if you were the type of person to be so anal about the rules that you would report two people for arguing. People either do dumb stuff that gets them reported while others sit back salivating for the chance to report someone. It's almost like we play for the report.

I know your first thought is "well they are disrupting my game and I king of all lol should never get interrupted, that's what Riot says!" and "Toxicity is toxicity no matter what form it takes"

come up with something new.

36 Comments

Umbral RegentJan 24, 20199 votes

I know your first thought is "well they are disrupting my game and I king of all lol should never get interrupted, that's what Riot says!" and "Toxicity is toxicity no matter what form it takes"

come up with something new.

There's a certain irony to asking people to come up with a new argument besides "flaming is disruptive" and "toxicity is toxicity" when you're raising an equally unoriginal argument.

It's almost like we play for the report.

If we're supposed to come up with a new argument besides flaming being disruptive, then you need a newer argument than "it's almost like people play to report others".

Give a little, get a little, no?

Is it okay to report two people for being toxic to one another? No toxicity was thrown directly your way.

It's absolutely okay to report people for getting into a flamewar, even if they're not attacking you. They're still dedicating more of their focus to flaming one another than playing the game, and, as you already addressed, it's disruptive.

Muting them both would be the right thing to do...

Muting and reporting them both. The right thing doesn't just stop at what's immediately beneficial for oneself.

MustardTigerMKJan 24, 20191 votes

Is it toxic if it truly doesn't bother you? Is it toxicity just because Riot says it is?

My main point is people are waiting to see something toxic just so they can report someone. Are they reporting because Riot deems it to be toxic or do people report because they personally think it's toxic? I think most people report just to report. I have been around the world and I've found that a very small percentage of people get so easily offended or triggered by comments so basic in nature but reports come flooding in. Every time someone brings up this topic they get flamed on hard, THAT's ironic, don't ya think?

Umbral RegentJan 24, 20195 votes

Is it toxic if it truly doesn't bother you?

If I'm wearing fireproof clothes, does fire still burn things?

Personal tolerance/sensibilities do not change the nature of what you're tolerating.

Is it toxicity just because Riot says it is?

A better phrasing of this question is; "If Riot deems the behavior to be against the rules, does it still merit a report and consequent punishment?"

And the answer is yes. Whether you like them or not, the rules are the rules, so if you get punished for breaking them, that's your bad.

("You" being used in the figurative sense, here.)

My main point is people are waiting to see something toxic just so they can report someone.

I'd like to see some legitimate data on this.

Are they reporting because Riot deems it to be toxic or do people report because they personally think it's toxic?

Well, to start with, does it really matter why they report? I think what matters more is whether or not a player's behavior is actually against the rules or not.

Beyond that; punishments are applied based on where those two points meet - where what one player believes is toxic is confirmed to fall below Riot's expected bar of behavior.

Which, again, is why I question why it matters whether or not a player believes behavior to be toxic.

I think most people report just to report.

You think, but you don't know. This kind of defeats your point about people "waiting for any opportunity to report someone", because you don't actually know whether or not it's the case. You think it is the case, and you take issue with that hypothetical, but the reality is almost certainly a mile different from what you think it is.

I have been around the world and I've found that a very small percentage of people get so easily offended or triggered by comments so basic in nature but reports come flooding in.

Have you considered that it's not an issue of being easily offended/triggered/etc., and more just that people play League for fun, and don't want people spending half the game just arguing and bickering at each other instead of, y'know, playing?

Whether you like it or not, that argument you decried as unoriginal - that, disruptive behavior is unwelcome in League - is very much a valid argument.

Every time someone brings up this topic they get flamed on hard, THAT's ironic, don't ya think?

If you feel you're being flamed by people, report their comments, and the moderators will take action appropriately.

Beyond that, in this thread, I see one comment that's unduly harsh and sarcastic, and one that is similarly sarcastic and unproductive. While definitely not welcome, that's still a far cry from being "flamed on hard".

And, if you have links to other same-such topics where the OP got flamed, I'd like to see you back that up with evidence.

MustardTigerMKJan 24, 20191 votes

I'm having a conversation, I've never had a conversation with someone that took everything I said, tore it to shreds and kicked me in the balls. I get it, you're smart man and you could argue any point until your speech gives out. You don't even understand that I asked questions and gave my opinion to what I think the answers are. What you did was took my answers to those questions and put doubt in what I was saying, you're a bully. I asked questions, all you have to do is give YOUR opinion on what the answer is not do your best to disprove my answers.

MustardTigerMKJan 24, 20191 votes

In my opinion freedom of speech matters along with freedom of choice. I've fought for those in my lifetime. Not sure if Riot should give such an easy platform for trolls over chat that can be muted anytime during the game.

MustardTigerMKJan 24, 20191 votes

Personal opinions shaped the world btw and we toxic as hell!

rujitraJan 24, 20194 votes

It’s not bullying if he counters your arguments. It’s debate.

I get that it sucks to be in a debate with people who can tear your argument to pieces - I’ve been in multiple like that even here on the boards. But you can’t just call people a bully because they’re trying to debate opinions.

MustardTigerMKJan 24, 20191 votes

You're engaging an uneducated person in a debate. Sounds like a bully to me. Debates are based off what you learn in books not that of what you truly think.

rujitraJan 24, 20194 votes

If you come to the boards, you should expect discussion. If you are not willing to participate in discussion, you’re free to not post or not respond.

Opinions can certainly be debated - even opinions must be based on something. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but that doesn’t mean that they’re entitled to not have their opinion debated.

MustardTigerMKJan 24, 20192 votes

{quoted}

If you come to the boards, you should expect discussion. If you are not willing to participate in discussion, you’re free to not post or not respond.

Opinions can certainly be debated - even opinions must be based on something. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but that doesn’t mean that they’re entitled to not have their opinion debated.

A debate? Like the debates people have in daily life sometimes spilling over onto a video game chat screen? Then they get banned for it. I'm silver scrub whose game am I impeding so much that they can't just mute me? I'm not in a pro game flaming faker playing for $1 million. Why should the offended always have more entitlement over the accused?

Do you think the punishment scheme should be based off how many games you have played? You could be given a progress bar and if you get reported in more than 15% of your games, you'll receive a punishment if your last 10 games played are viewed and deemed toxic in 50%+ of them.

Is it fair that someone with 1000 games and gets reported 10% of the time and found to be toxic (which would lead to a permanent ban - provide stats that prove it wouldn't) gets the same punishments as someone who has played 100 games and has been toxic and reported in 80% of their games?...both accounts would end up permanently banned.

MustardTigerMKJan 24, 20191 votes

Is our current debate report worthy? If constant chat disrupts the game then limit everyone to 3 things they can type over 1 minute. Or come up with some perfect number using the mathematics of how much you can say and what the cool down is. We are just debating but if our setting was within a lol game then we would be being toxic even though we are simply having a chat.

MustardTigerMKJan 24, 20191 votes

Let's say everything we type is while our death timer is on....we read and respond later.

MustardTigerMKJan 24, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Is our current debate report worthy? If constant chat disrupts the game then limit everyone to 3 things they can type over 1 minute. Or come up with some perfect number using the mathematics of how much you can say and what the cool down is. We are just debating but if our setting was within a lol game then we would be being toxic even though we are simply having a chat.

you seem to overlook most questions that would prove my points.

Vegito101Jan 24, 20191 votes

I agree with you.account ban should include more informations and more details about player

rujitraJan 24, 20193 votes

No, I don't think you should get "special treatment" because you play a lot of games.

But this is how the system works already. You do get less "flags" because you play a lot of games.

Punishment in League is based on toxicity in games played. If you are only toxic in games rarely, you won't be punished.

MustardTigerMKJan 24, 20191 votes

{quoted}

No, I don't think you should get "special treatment" because you play a lot of games.

But this is how the system works already. You do get less "flags" because you play a lot of games.

Punishment in League is based on toxicity in games played. If you are only toxic in games rarely, you won't be punished.

Why are you quoting special treatment like I said that? lol I asked if the number of games played should matter and should there be a more clear and transparent system for reports? I didn't even truly answer the question, I only brought up some points to think about. I also love how when I say I think I need to do my research and come up with analytics to support it and opinions don't matter.

Believe it or not there are a lot of people out there who love league, play it a LOT and have off nights which have lead to permanent bans. The amount of people that are constantly being offensive and report worthy is actually small - mid range. The amount of people who lure people into popping off in game chat is very high along with the fact that if you receive reports you're sent down a rabbit hole of toxicity that is hard to conquer. You honestly have a problem with giving people a "progress bar" with a percentage of how often you get reported so you can personally monitor your toxicity ensuring it stays under 15% of games played? A clear and honest system isn't "special treatment" for anyone, it's only fair.

People like you want to keep people down and see no difference between a truly toxic troll and a casual gamer who has off days or is tricked into being toxic by a more intelligent player. There is a difference.

Another big problem that I see with the zero tolerance chat logs is the average person doesn't even realize they are breaking the rules, they only do their research on it or see the chat logs after being permanently banned. Some people may not even realize the severity of their next punishment.

Are you against transparency in the report/ban process? Seems like you are. I bet you lure and report people into toxic situations all the time don't you?

rujitraJan 24, 20192 votes

"Off nights" don't lead to permanent bans. They may lead to a chat restriction. But if someone is getting permanent bans they're having way too many "off nights".

If a player doesn't understand the very clear rules that are presented when you create an account and every time the client updates, that's not Riot's fault.

And yes, I do have a problem with helping people be just toxic enough to avoid punishment. You've done a good job of explaining why this progress bar idea is a bad idea, thanks.

MustardTigerMKJan 24, 20191 votes

{quoted}

"Off nights" don't lead to permanent bans. They may lead to a chat restriction. But if someone is getting permanent bans they're having way too many "off nights".

If an off night can lead to chat restriction then over years those off nights certainly lead to permanent bans, it's the problem with the punishment system.

People like you with closed minds and no true thought are a big problem for the types of people who are generally not toxic day to day. You obviously don't have a problem with league so you're closed minded and non sympathetic.

You're basically rounding up all the white people and calling them racist because there are white people that are racist as hell but it is a smaller percentage then you'd think. The system lumps people who do petty crimes with mass murderers essentially.

I don't think you understand, you're not helping people be boarder line toxic, you're allowing your good game play (reform) visibly improve your overall account and you can see how toxic you truly are. Reform or be banned is the motto but how can one reform without visibly seeing the improvement or the toxicity levels.

I could say "Hey fellas, hope you have a great game!" and someone could take offence to that does nobody see how open ended a zero tolerance system is?

How confusing it could be to someone who doesn't understand how saying "Hey fellas" could make someone feel bad if one identifies themselves in a way that fellas is demeaning?

You still haven't answered my question of,

Hypothetical we are in game and having this "debate" as you wish to call it. When our death timers are on we type and "debate" we are both arguing different points. Neither of us are being overly hurtful. We are both playing our best and nobody is asking us to stop talking. Here is the kicker though, someone silently reports us. Should we receive punishment? I know for sure we would under those circumstances. Now I continue with my night not even knowing I was toxic that last game, I have a bad game now and you know for sure I was toxic but I figure it's one game. Third game comes up, I play terrible, bad streak, the mid laner is blaming me for not ganking enough, I comment on his play in response to him bashing me. I'm now chat restricted. Three more strikes in years of playing and I'm banned for life. Seems fair?

Do you think debates over chat should be punishable? Most "toxic" reports come this way. Simply a debate between two people while others silently wait to report. Everyone is scared to even ask someone to be quiet because they'll get reported too. I'm assuming your answer is yes, everything should be punished to the fullest.

So now that we've established that this is report worthy, why does Riot allow unlimited chat? If a back and forth conversation is punishable and considered toxic, why not restrict everyone's in game chat?

What are your thoughts on limiting the amount of chat you can do in game?

3 chances to type something every minute. Pings often suffice along with voice if you want to party up.

By the way, you're so against toxic players that you don't realize a tool to help you see your toxicity levels would help people stay within the green zone as determined by Riot. You could even get rewards for being 1% toxic, 5% and so on. Yeah it may help you "ride the line" if you choose to play that way but it also puts you in a bad spot to mess up and get banned.

I've never seen someone argue against transparency and freedom of information.

How do you feel about emails that come in every time you're reported with the description of why the person reported you??

you could leave it anonymous easily leave the gamer tag out of the email and just show

"Negative attitude - He told me to go F myself and it made me feel bad or he didn't stop talking all game and it ruined my experience"

Up to date reports allows people to reform and actually see how people feel about how you act and adjust.

It's not about being just toxic enough to be okay, I only say toxic because you understand what I mean when I say it, I personally don't see or do anything that warrants a ban within chat.

The stuff that I hate the most is how people play over how they chat but there's a huge attack on people who chat while feeders and trolls stroll on thru.

Jo0oJan 24, 20195 votes

Fuck yeah, that's the main reason I report people.

I don't mind much if somebody decides that they need to work through their shitty childhood through the medium of insulting my KDA or whatever, but when one of my teammates manages to tilt another of my teammates to the degree where their performance is harmed, I can't just mute my way out of it.

MustardTigerMKJan 24, 20191 votes

The problem is, the person being set off is the one who got trolled. People can often trick others into flaming too hard. And you never go full Penn. Never. So the guy who actually in reality got trolled to lash also then gets punished by Riot.

MustardTigerMKJan 24, 20191 votes

Does this seem fair to you personally as a league player?

Dirty BastardJan 24, 20193 votes

Sounds like someone got reported...

MustardTigerMKJan 24, 20191 votes

This account is clean brother

Thank you though for bringing up a good example of this community. Look at his comment people, does that seem like a taunt to you? If we were in game right now, this simple comment could spark an argument. He will of course be sly and possibly use pings knowing how to ride the line of toxicity while ensuring he doesn't get in trouble for something he types in chat knowing his comments will never be taken in context. Maybe I'm having a bad day, I just lost $1000 online gambling so maybe I'm going to say something back today even though 99% of my days I wouldn't say a thing but today, today I'll say something. Now goody two shoes is reporting me, you're reporting me and maybe the anger rides into the next game. When I'm down I want to game so maybe taking a break might ruin my idea of the perfect escape. My filter is off and I'm not taking any crap. MAYBE I have four really bad nights and play 4 games each night, 2 of the games I'm toxic, one maybe, one for sure no but I'll get heavily reported each night. turns on upbeat music I'M PERMANENTLY BANNED!

R107 GamesJan 24, 20192 votes

Kind of agreed.

Players are too obsessed with reporting. Some will go through great lengths to see/make sure the reported person is punished.

Players shouldn't be reporting for stupid shit either. If somone is toxic to you then simply mute them and move on with the game. Attempting to get them punished is not a fair solution.

It seems it's kind of human nature for people to not care of when another person gets punished. Becuase it doesn't affect them in any way. But that's a selfish mindset to have tbh.

Dirty BastardJan 24, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=R107 Games,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=HUBh7i7E,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-01-24T00:54:02.265+0000)

Kind of agreed.

Players are too obsessed with reporting. Some will go through great lengths to see/make sure the reported person is punished.

Players shouldn't be reporting for stupid shit either. If somone is toxic to you then simply mute them and move on with the game. Attempting to get them punished is not a fair solution.

It seems it's kind of human nature for people to not care of when another person gets punished. Becuase it doesn't affect them in any way. But that's a selfish mindset to have tbh.

I don't disagree, there are a lot of snowflakes and ban trolls out there. I think some ppl need to toughen up emotionally but also that its probably best to just be aware of these people existing and mute the person you have an issue with. Save the trouble... I say this from experience, I have been on the wrong end of this stick and basically had a premade report me after trolling me all game.

MustardTigerMKJan 24, 20191 votes

It's to the point where I'm scared if I DON'T report someone if I see toxicity. Instead of reporting I often try to diffuse the situation. Let's stop arguing guys, let's win as a team!! Come on, don't make me report you! Please get along! How many silent reports do people deserve? Chalk up and say something, be an adult and diffuse childish banter. If they can't smarten up after trying to diffuse, report away if you desire.

Dirty BastardJan 24, 20191 votes

{quoted}

It's to the point where I'm scared if I DON'T report someone if I see toxicity. Instead of reporting I often try to diffuse the situation. Let's stop arguing guys, let's win as a team!! Come on, don't make me report you! Please get along! How many silent reports do people deserve? Chalk up and say something, be an adult and diffuse childish banter. If they can't smarten up after trying to diffuse, report away if you desire.

Personally, I feel if they are willing to flame each other then playing dad will do nothing but get them on to you and the rest of the team... its pointless. If they are stupid enough to rattle each other in a team game then rest assured they have no problem screwing with the rest.

MustardTigerMKJan 24, 20191 votes

Riot pulls out meat scepter

We'll make him regret going against our rules.

Telephone BoothJan 24, 20191 votes

Yeah its okay. Two teammates bitching at eachother all game long? Yeah you bet im reporting them. Stfu and play, I say. Thats right, I, King of LoL, declare that yee best shut the fuck up.

MustardTigerMKJan 24, 20191 votes

Every time you type my eyeballs flicker to the left, if you offend my eyes again you'll be toast!

BTW if you diffuse the situation (meaning you've intervened and got them to stop with your superior brain power) That would mean they wouldn't be Bing all game long, right?

MustardTigerMKJan 24, 20191 votes

Even in this board people can't help but down vote, they look all over the boards for some poor soul complaining about being banned so they can put them in their place and bring them down.

MustardTigerMKJan 24, 20191 votes

Is it okay.... look at what that title attracts.

P4ppinoJan 24, 20191 votes

I do search for these types of posts, mainly because I think its nearly impossible to get permabanned, but there are multiple posts daily about someone being banned, so I like to explore how exactly they did it.

CharDeeMcDennizJan 24, 20191 votes

"I didn't get the echo chamber responses that I wanted so you are all toxic"

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

MustardTigerMKJan 24, 20191 votes

Being verbally toxic towards someone varies dependent on the person hearing or seeing it. Do you talk with your friends in such a way that would get you banned from league? Maybe some people are only being "friendly" but are viewed as toxic.

MustardTigerMKJan 24, 20191 votes

Everyone also immediately turns on anyone who steps out of line. People get bashed all game, get reported and then punished. I'm not fighting for people who are truly toxic constantly, I'm fighting for the people who feel they weren't toxic and they were treated unfairly.

You would probably be less harsh on a woman who was verbally and physically beaten by her husband to the point where she lashes out and kills him. Why allow people to be bashed to the ground verbally then ban them for lashing out?

The amount of games where people complain and complain and complain is off the charts, I'm having to ignore someone almost every game. I know if I say something back it can be deemed toxic so I don't say a word but is it truly fair for someone to be punished if they do decide to say hey man, I'm doing my best, try doing better yourself before you look at others. What I said there is reportable because I commented on his play in a negative way.