yes or no?..
within the last five days I've gotten two messages saying that I assisted in getting someone punished. This most recent message actually brought me the type of joy I might get from a reward. Strange to feel good about knowing someone got punished, who who we to judge? All I know is there shouldn't be a system that brings people joy when others get punished it creates a want to punish people and that is TOXIC!
Not sure why this is getting downvoted. This is a pretty classic debate around corrections vs punishment or an eye for an eye. Essentially it boils down to you hurt me so I want to see you get hurt. It's pretty obvious looking at history that the majority of humans prefer seeing people punished rather than attempting to correct the problem. So I wouldn't feel too bad about it.
Of course there shouldn't be any quilt bestowed upon me for feeling joy.
Do you agree with a system that rewards players with joy at the expense of other players misery?
A hungry horse would give a lot for a carrot, imagine what a rabbit would do for a field full of cabbage.....
There's nothing wrong with reporting someone who's being a jerk (or breaking the rules in general) and feeling joy when they receive their just desserts. :p
It's not really toxic, it shows that the system is working and rulebreakers are being punished.
I mean you're getting them punished for a reason, right? Now that person can't ruin any more games for awhile.
Its not a 'yes, I got my revenge!' feeling, its a 'now he can't hurt anyone anymore' feeling.
You've realized a truth which is out of reach to most people. You are right. You should not take sadistic pleasure from others' misfortune or punishment, even if inflicting the punishment is necessary/pragmatic to prevent further harm. If you must hang someone, because you can't let them go free and you can't afford/risk keeping them imprisoned, then you should do so somberly. You shouldn't put on a show and have people gather around at a hanging as a form of public entertainment.
I hope those reports aren't against flamers. It's not really fair to get a flamer punished, since you could've muted them anytime.
Solving problems by ourselves without relying on other people(Riot in this case), are how we grow as people. And we have a more inclusive environment if we learn to tolerate speech we disagree with, and not ban people that are speaking their minds
It's perfectly natural to feel good about seeing someone get punished and it's in being honest about those feelings and reflecting on them that they become ethical.
In fact feeling good about punishments is part of our judicial systems. When someone breaks the rules, rules you adhere to, it devalues those rules and inspires a sense of unfairness and diminishes the trust people have in the system. When someone gets punished, it reaffirms a spectator's/victim's believe in the rules. It gives a person confirmation that an unfairness has been corrected and that society supports them and what they believe to be right or wrong.
In that light it would actually be more rare to not feel good, especially when you are the victim.
The scales are not the same, but reporting and punishing in LoL is not that different in that regard.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schadenfreude
We all experience it from time to time and elements of sadism aren't incredibly uncommon.
Is it... right? The act itself is very healthy for league's community. As for taking pleasure in another's suffering? I think it's fine, too, so long as you aren't intentionally trying to bring out the worst in those folks. Keep in mind that both are very human, but society is the context and the act is what matters.
You could have the urges of say, a serial killer, but so long as you don't act on them and do your best for society, I say you deserve to be treated as a human being. Or you could have the urges of say, a serial killer, and then choose to act on them. That's a different story.
Provoke works just the same pal.
So in a game where three people are trolling(playing badly and talking trash) and the 4th person on my team feels so bad he honors me for how I handled it, you're okay with taking away that context and punishing the person. But you're not okay with someone getting punished for being coerced into saying hate speech lol.....people in league are F
It entirely depends on why you feel good.
Do you feel satisfied that there is now one less toxic player in this game, at least for a bit? Do you feel glad that they won't ruin anyone else's games (until they make another account)? If yes, then that's fine.
However, if you feel good about it because of the punishment itself, because they lost all of their skins/rank/champs/et cetera, then that's not a good thing.
If they actually deserve it... hell ya I feel good.
YES
thats why I report everybody after every game. God... I mean riot will recognize their own.
First you have to consider how often you report players and how often they report you (this is assuming you are toxic - chances are you aren't). You report a ton of players. You might see that message once every so often - Riot only displays it for 10% of all reports submitted by you that result in punishment. This is meant to encourage you to continue reporting people because (as you saw from the message), the system caught someone because of your report.
That being said, you don't remember any of your reports, so you don't know who got punished - therefore there's no reason to feel good or bad about it. I would encourage you to not feel good about it as that can encourage you to report vengefully (which is no bueno). But you can show gratitude to them for acknowledging your efforts to help them catch a misbehaving player. That's appropriate in my book.
As for me, those messages create anxiety for me as I've been permanently banned 6 times and I'm still trying to reform. I've gotten a ton better but I'm always afraid of slipping and getting in trouble.
If you're deriving pleasure from the punishment of another player, you probably reported them for the wrong reason.
And in fact I think the system encouraging reporting for the schadenfreude is part of how the system got so draconian in the first place.
The appropriate response is to feel good about doing the right thing, rather than specifically feeling good because someone was punished. I.e. if you're trying to find every oppertunity to get someone in trouble so you can go "YES, I GOT THAT GUY!" you're probably doing it for the wrong reasons. Of course, they wouldn't have been punished if the case wasn't legitimate, so regardless of how you feel, something came of it.
I understand what you are trying to say, but I think it's not really fair to say that the system creates a want to punish people. Rather than that it is the toxic players which create a want to punish them, and the system merely scratches that itch.
But that's inevitable. A punishment system will always help people get their vengeance on somebody who wronged them. As long as that is not its goal, however, I'd say that it's not really a flaw in the system. Even the message that somebody has been punished doesn't aim to do that, it only aims to give people an occasional proof that the system works.
Besides, phrased like that it becomes clear why feeling happy that somebody was punished is not inherently wrong. Or would you say it's wrong to be happy that a criminal is convicted of their crimes? Those thoughts are problematic only if they focus only on that person's misery; at least in my opinion.
I had an instance where someone called me a "hate speech" word. I replied with one of my own and it was the only insult that I typed in the entire match. Meanwhile, they continually said the hate speech word and continually kept insulting me for the duration of the match. A 2nd person also jumped in and started using the hate speech word repeatedly and insulted me repeatedly for the entire duration of the match.
I got a 2-week ban as my first punishment ever on a 7 year old account. The primary instigator who committed the same offense and repeatedly used it while insulting me for the entire duration, did NOT get punished. Their account remained active. All of the proof is in my support tickets as well as other links that I provided where my 1 insult got a more severe punishment compared to another player in a different match who insulted their entire team constantly while using words like %%%%%% and %%%%%%.
Perhaps if the system was a bit more consistent or "just", the specialists who posted in this thread might have a decent point. But when events like mine happen so regularly, their points have no leg to stand on. The only message I get from this is that I can trust in the system being on my side as long as I am MORE toxic and as long as I am the primary instigator.
You don't need to look at my story that happened two years ago. Just check out a certain bait banning discord for more evidence ;-)
