Boards›Player Behavior

Permaban for Toxicity/Flame (only) ? Perma chat ban (IDEA)

SkullRunnerGR··4 votes·2,703 views

Before I begin, I know this exact thing has been discussed in the past but I just wanted to bring it back, because nothing seems to have changed despite all these posts.

Greetings everyone,

There are several people that have been permanently banned because of being toxic or **flaming **in chat. I get when people get perma banned for scripting or using third party programs , trolling , feeding etc. I mean how else would you get rid of them really . Then there is the category of the people who flame in chat (such as myself cough). I know Riot gives warning to these type of people consistently (for example chat restrictions and temporal bans) but lets be honest , a very very small percentage is going to get affected and will stop flaming just because of the examples I gave.

So I thought of an idea which turned out to have been mentioned in the past ... Permanent Chat Restrictions (or Self Chat Restriction, wouldn't really work tbh. I mean it would work for me but you know ...who am I...). If a player is toxic but overall he is a good player and doesnt feed or troll and he tries his best to win the match; you can't put him in the same position such as a scripter for example...

My opinion is that toxic players should get a perma chat restriction if they don't stop flaming after a temp ban and not a perma ban in general because it's not "fair". Let me give you an example (me and my examples man xD), you have a very good top laner who got first blood went 2/0, 3/0, 4/0 and x/0, but he flames bot for feeding their jungler (lets say 3 kills), which jungler afterwards ganked top and gave the toplaner 2 deaths and the toplaner kept on dying because the enemy jungler camped top and the ally jungler is just sitting and farming or camping mid which mid is like godlike or smth. What would you do then? Qption 1. Ask your jungler nicely to come top Result. Completely denies you and keeps on doing his thing

Option 2. Try to play deff Result. They tower dive you cause the enemy jungler doesn't care at that point cause he is fed af

Option 3 ... Flame your jungler for not coming top and bot for feeding (or just be a little too aggresive towards them) Result. GET BANNED and then no matter how hard you try you lose your prototion to Challenjour xD. Because if he weren't able talk he wouldn't be a problem at the first place right? ~~Yeah compared to losing your account ~~ It's like saying X is the problem (in this case the ability to write in chat and flame) and then you have the sportsmanlike player which is Y get rid of X and with what are you left with? A sportsmanlike player :D who doesn't give anyone a hard time in chat. (I know it's not that simple and it would be a problem not to be able to talk if you just want to communicate but at this point we have proven ourselves to use chat negatively). if someone really wanted to communicate there are pings and Alt + anything you want to point out really.

I wont even mention the amount of RP we spent or how hard we work and try for those beatiful Level 7 Champion Mastery and the time we spent grinding IP to buy Tier 3 Runes and Champions to help us get better at the game and / get to know more champions' playstyle

What do you thing? Did I forget to mention anything? Do you think my way of thinking is wrong? Let me know by replying <3

33 Comments

ModPrandine7 votes

Why can't Riot just assign perma-mutes to people instead of banning them?

Short answer: They tried that and it didn't work.

Long answer: There used to be a system in place where one could rack up hundreds of games worth of chat restrictions. This was replaced with the current Instant Feedback System for two main reasons:

  1. People with tons of CR's often wouldn't even try to reform because they couldn't work them off fast enough to make it worth it.
  2. The truly toxic people would just switch to other forms of griefing instead (i.e. ping spamming, intentionally feeding/afking, gameplay trolling, etc.) once they found out that they couldn't do it with chat.

The IFS encourages people to reform or get lost faster than the previous systems could. Is it perfect? No. Is it effective? Yes.

SkullRunnerGR1 votes

But I don't use other griefing methods (if pings but very occasionally) No I think they/we should be given a chance without chat and see how we do and as you said if they tell that they continue with other griefing methods then ban them completely

ModPrandine2 votes

{quoted}

But I don't use other griefing methods (if pings but very occasionally) No I think they/we should be given a chance without chat and see how we do and as you said if they tell that they continue with other griefing methods then ban them completely

Again, Riot tried that and it didn't work, hence why they scrapped it. Think about it: if someone with restricted chat wouldn't reform then what are the chances they will with a perma-mute?

SkullRunnerGR1 votes

If you have the ability to chat you are obviously going to chat than use pings ... come on If you don't have the ability to chat then you will either stop or use pings but in a good way (but If you use them in a bad way thats when you should get perma banned) However if you have 1 message per 4 minutes (regural chat restriction) and you use it wisely then you are in a good spot if not then that should be a reason for you to get perma banned When I had chat restrictions I used them only to help my team win and give positive feedback , but for some reason after the restriction ended I'd still sent possitive feedback but negative aswell (mostly negative tbh) I don't I would just feel the need to :(

ModPrandine2 votes

{quoted}

If you have the ability to chat you are obviously going to chat than use pings ... come on If you don't have the ability to chat then you will either stop or use pings but in a good way (but If you use them in a bad way thats when you should get perma banned) However if you have 1 message per 4 minutes (regural chat restriction) and you use it wisely then you are in a good spot if not then that should be a reason for you to get perma banned When I had chat restrictions I used them only to help my team win and give positive feedback , but for some reason after the restriction ended I'd still sent possitive feedback but negative aswell (mostly negative tbh) I don't I would just feel the need to :(

I understand what you're saying, but keep in mind that not everyone who has access to chat uses it, restricted or not, and I've been in plenty of games where nothing was said in the chat. Some of those games were due to just no one really needing to use the chat and others were due to people being too busy trolling the game to even be bothered using the chat. Like I said before the current system encourages people to reform or get lost faster than previous systems did, but people have to be willing to change and reform. If not then they get banned, simple as that.

P.S. Riot has access to allot more information than we do, and they have already said that they have no plans to implement a permamute feature anytime in the near future.

vOmvbrawfU1 votes

The truly toxic people would just switch to other forms of griefing instead (i.e. ping spamming, intentionally feeding/afking, gameplay trolling, etc.) once they found out that they couldn't do it with chat.

See, the vast majority of people I see that are "toxic", are ones flaming those that are intentionally feeding and gameplay trolling. Not the ones doing it. The problem is that someone can literally go 0-40 for 250 straight games before being punished. I've seen it. Until rito address the causes of toxicity, they aren't fixing anything. This should have been made obvious by the failed 4 years of attempting. But the community doesn't want to actually try and fix the problem, they just want to sjw it and complain when it doesn't work. So meh.

Magical Player5 votes

So, your entire argument is if people don't listen to me I tilt. ?????????????????????

SkullRunnerGR1 votes

I still try to have a chill conv with them but after some time is when I tilt... don't get me wrong

elduris4 votes

nothing seems to have changed despite all these posts.

You're assuming a lot here.

  • That permanent chat restrictions is actually a viable solution
  • That Riot wants to bring the system back
  • That decisions about punishment systems are made based on number of Boards posts

All the data we have shows the opposite. They don't work, Riot doesn't want to "try again", and people in the community don't have experience in designing a system like this. This exact topic has been discussed to death and the result is always the same. Toxic players don't want to lose their accounts, but don't want to put in the effort required to control their temper.

I don't mean to sound rude here, but this is something I see all the time, and the conversation in the comments always plays out the same way. "Permanent" chat restrictions had a run and it was very unsuccessful. I don't see it coming back.

Rax Reformed3 votes

Flaming helps no one. A lot of the people that flame, do so because they're unable to see their own faults, and would rather blame their teammates instead of assessing the actual situation.

Like your example of that top laner. Did he teleport bot lane and help them? No? Then he's partially at fault that the enemy jungler got fed.

Toxic behavior should definitely remain a bannable offense. Having someone that is perma-muted on your team is a handicap anyway. They would have no way to communicate with the team outside of pings. And if they ended up with a perma-ban from chat, you know they're a toxic shithead, so chances are they're sitting there raging at how bad they think their team is, rather than doing what the team needs them to do.

Ban them and let that be the end of it. If you harass people in the game, you lose your access to the game. End of story.

SkullRunnerGR1 votes

Let's say he plays with Ignite. No when my team wants me to something or doesn't want me to do something I will listen to them, Baron call alright ... false baron call "Back away" ping. My "goal" is to get them know how to be better at the game , If they refuse to listen to me thats when the tilt takes place . I mean if I can't directly tell them something negative why would I scream like an autist.

I'm telling you he is not a bad player he only flames .. so take chat away from him and boom problem solved (almost)

King J3ff1 votes

you an still be toxic by spam pinging. it's annoying.

SkullRunnerGR1 votes

No I meant just once :P only if they seem like they dont listen then another 2-3 times thats all dont imagine like maximum spam ping until it tells you you haveto wait until the next ping xD

King J3ff1 votes

normal people ping 2-3 times anyways. and if the person is already toxic, I can guarantee you that they will always spam ping.

Magical Player2 votes

Before I begin, I know this exact thing has been discussed in the past but I just wanted to bring it back, because nothing seems to have changed dispite all these posts.

Why is that, did you read all those posts?

'I wont even mention the amount of RP we spent or how hard we work and try for those beatiful Level 7 Champion Mastery and the time we spent grinding IP to buy Tier 3 Runes and Champions to help us get better at the game and / get to know more champions' playstyle' does not matter to anyone non toxic players spend similar times getting similar places

'Option 3 ... Flame your jungler for not coming top and bot for feeding (or just be a little too aggresive towards them) Result. GET BANNED' show us the chat logs of this instance.

toxic players even when chat restricted still show that they can still be toxic, by grieving in other ways other than simply chatting. ping spamming not fighting lane taxing for no reason afk standing around in combat areas etc

so a perma mute does what? now

SkullRunnerGR1 votes
  1. Almost
  2. You don't care ? Fair enough ... what about the money .. they just keep it 3.So by yourself you said that toxic doesn't mean bad player 4.No need to be shown the chat logs 5.I do none of these (ok maybe ping spamming very rarely 6.Why get completely rid of a player who just wants to play ... I just want to play I don't even care if I am not able to chat cause I mostly play top with ignite... whether thats good or not
Magical Player2 votes

{quoted}

  1. Almost
  2. You don't care ? Fair enough ... what about the money .. they just keep it 3.So by yourself you said that toxic doesn't mean bad player 4.No need to be shown the chat logs 5.I do none of these (ok maybe ping spamming very rarely 6.Why get completely rid of a player who just wants to play ... I just want to play I don't even care if I am not able to chat cause I mostly play top with ignite... whether thats good or not

2-Money spent on League of Legends Merchandise can be taken away, as you neither own the account/server/game of which you play on. Breaking the tos, results in a punishment, if banned you lose the account. This is a fair punishment as you had time to reform, if you were found to be scripting/cheating/hacking then perma ban is fair. 3- Never stated that what so ever, I said, toxic player will go out of their way to still be toxic even when chat restricted. 4- Chat logs matter, if your trying to claim "little to aggressive" "flaming" as not bad, you need some context which the chat logs would show 5-Okay? and 6- Toxic Accounts are removed from the game. Notice I said accounts and not people, riot wants people to enjoy the game. they also understand that some people won't get the hint that what they're doing is wrong until its too late. So they allow people to come back(except tyler1 for now)to continue to enjoy league of legends.

You can /ignoreall, woot no more chat you can rescale the chat window, woot no more chat you can unbind your keys to not allow for pressing enter/return , woo no more chat You can mute people, woo no more chat There are already options out there to remove chat.....

SkullRunnerGR1 votes

You are totally right but I don't want to make another account cause I will have to start from scratch and I want that to happen

  1. Get my account back with chat disabled or riot spying on me wether I continue to flame after the perma .
  2. Find another game
  3. Maybe after a long time I may start over but for now I am not in the mood to do that
Magical Player3 votes

{quoted}

You are totally right but I don't want to make another account cause I will have to start from scratch and I want that to happen

  1. Get my account back with chat disabled or riot spying on me wether I continue to flame after the perma .
  2. Find another game
  3. Maybe after a long time I may start over but for now I am not in the mood to do that

zz so you were punished for toxicity?

SkullRunnerGR1 votes

Wasn't that obvious? "Then there is the category of the people who flame in chat (such as myself cough)"

CooL Ice Tea1 votes

You are totally right but I don't want to make another account

that's the goal. They actually want you to leave this game. Works as intended.

Kei1432 votes

what would permachat achieve for the toxics? They would grief using gameplay methods instead, so what gives?

Ultimately, you are just prolonging their permaban.

If you've been following these forums, you'd know that new features won't be delivered until the new client is done.

SkullRunnerGR1 votes

If they find other grief methods then completely ban them but first see how they do without chat Personally I don't grief except chat

So you are saying future toxic players will just have a perma chat ban??

Kei1431 votes

If you just grief with chat, then why not just physically remove your enter key?

And no. We don't know what the new features will be as they never disclosed it, but whatever they do, it will certainly reduce toxicity.

HexaDecimel1 votes

How many times to people have to say it. Riot already had a system that stacked chat restrictions. And what resulted was players continuing to troll and racking up endless chat restrictions that they would never be able to get rid of. It did nothing to improve the system so they eliminated it.

IM A ID A IR A2 votes

but lets be honest , a very very small percentage is going to get affected and will stop flaming just because of the examples I gave.

Good point, i hope Riot reads this. No more chat restrictions, insta perma!

My opinion is that toxic players should get a perma chat restriction if they don't stop flaming after a temp ban and not a perma ban in general because it's not "fair".

What happens when a flamer is not allowed to write anymore and knows that nothing can happen to him since he already has the worst punishment (perma chat restriction)? He will find other ways to fk up is team like spam pinging, inting, afk, trolling etc.

Perma ban = best solution.

SkullRunnerGR1 votes

For the 4th time ... What if he doesn't use other forms of griefing and he actually stops ....

Magical Player3 votes

{quoted}

For the 4th time ... What if he doesn't use other forms of griefing and he actually stops ....

You're right, people could very well stop griefing all together.

My guess is that riot has seen that even when hundreds of chat restricted games occured, people would still grief others. Adding an additional punishment to the system only allows toxic elements to stay in the game longer. So they said no, to having perma mute

Also is it so hard not to flame others, like really.

elduris2 votes

Yep, that's basically it. Two types of people. The people who would reform would do so before getting too far in the system and the people that wouldn't reform would simply rack up hundreds of chat restrictions. So it really did nothing but give Riot the information that "this doesn't work." Which is good, because now we have an easy to understand punishment system that teaches people it's not ok to flame very early on and doesn't allow much room for trolls to troll before they get banned.

IM A ID A IR A1 votes

They don't stop when they fear to lose their account, so why would they stop when they know there are no more punishments left? Makes no sense right? When they are pissed they will find a way to let the other players know.

Totalwanabe1 votes

the ban achieve the same result for everyone else except the banned player, removal of a toxic player.

Kkirill1 votes

totally agree with you! same what happend to me all time, flame the feeders trying to tell what to do right... whene we lose all team put the blame on me and reporting me and result in ban ,but system dont know what realy happend in game they just copy past ur chat and banning you, and not even cheaking what happend in the game. bad English.

superpigplayz1011 votes

Perma mutes..? I asked riot support the same thing and they said its because it’s used for communicating. Like “go to dragon” or “dive” and stuff like that.

More from Player Behavior

The indefinite banning of Tyler1
Player Behavior4,799 comments
2,942
votes
14 day ban because playing Nunu Support with Smite is "stealing other people's roles"...?
Player Behavior1,525 comments
1,086
votes
Riot should add monthly status cards
Player Behavior241 comments
843
votes
Reminder that we haven't gotten our Summoner report cards yet :/
Player Behavior145 comments
619
votes
I'm not "triggered" by you throwing insults.
Player Behavior361 comments
548
votes
Black Alistar, King Rammus!!!!
Player Behavior462 comments
503
votes

More by SkullRunnerGR

Couldn't decide where to post this... (Ban Appeal)
[ARCHIVED] Miscellaneous2 comments
1
votes