In what way was I being toxic?

4Jhín··114 votes·12,064 views

Here are the chat logs from my last 2 games:

Game 1 4Jhín: opop 4Jhín: spellthiefs is gr8 for swain lol 4Jhín: ya 4Jhín: didnt realize kat was that much ahead 4Jhín: ping mia or follow her 4Jhín: if u cant follow her then push out the lane when she leaves lane 4Jhín: when i get top tower group mid 4Jhín: k group mid 4Jhín: hurry 4Jhín: focus kat plz 4Jhín: ekko go in when i engage 4Jhín: ugh 4Jhín: i can tell 4Jhín: ww just stop talking to them 4Jhín: worth 4Jhín: thanks 4Jhín: how am i toxic? 4Jhín: ive barely said a word lol 4Jhín: ww shes trying to tilt u so she can report u 4Jhín: just mute her 4Jhín: push 4Jhín: elise ur being very toxic can u please stop 4Jhín: ww already muted u so the rest of us are the only one seeing it 4Jhín: 1300 fucking damage with his ult lul 4Jhín: this should have been an easy game T-T 4Jhín: push 4Jhín: plz 4Jhín: forget it 4Jhín: im pushing top

Game 2 4Jhín: he quit he didnt dc 4Jhín: how r u so dam fast 4Jhín: dont fight, farm, stay close to turret 4Jhín: we can win if u will just stop raging and farm 4Jhín: ^ 4Jhín: lul 4Jhín: that flash 4Jhín: we r carrying right now 4Jhín: k 4Jhín: y r u so toxic 4Jhín: we can win 4Jhín: lmfao they were hiding in bush 4Jhín: how is she not being toxic 4Jhín: plz tell me 4Jhín: i havent said a dam thing 4Jhín: i was trying to help 4Jhín: nasus can u tank 4Jhín: if u tank we can maybe 2v5 this

297 Comments

Jo0o96 votes

Something is fucky here.

I have to say that I suspect you're misleading us with edited logs, because I have never seen logs like this incite a punishment. But until that's demonstrated, I'll upvote you in hopes of a Rioter review.

The Blue Rajah19 votes

Yeah I had a similar thought. It's definitely suspicious but in both games he said something along the lines of "how am I toxic?"

It would be unusual for other people to accuse him of toxicity for chat like that. But it is possible. So hopefully a rioter comes and takes a look and clears this up, and unbans him if he didn't deserve it.

Wimbledofy4 votes

if anything he's probably spam pinging his team

RiotRiot Tantram46 votes

I mean, you DID edit your logs.

[3:57] 4Jhín (Swain): opop [12:08] 4Jhín (Swain): spellthiefs is gr8 for swain lol [16:29] 4Jhín (Swain): ya [17:02] 4Jhín (Swain): didnt realize kat was that much ahead [17:16] 4Jhín (Swain): then ping mia or follow her [17:47] 4Jhín (Swain): if u cant follow her then at least push out the lane when she leaves lane [18:41] 4Jhín (Swain): when i get top tower group mid [21:14] 4Jhín (Swain): k group mid [21:22] 4Jhín (Swain): hurry [23:42] 4Jhín (Swain): focus kat plz [23:59] 4Jhín (Swain): ekko u fight when i engage not after everyone runs out [24:01] 4Jhín (Swain): ugh [24:19] 4Jhín (Swain): i can tell [25:09] 4Jhín (Swain): ww just stop talking to them ekko is going to end up making us lose anyway [26:36] [All] 4Jhín (Swain): worth [26:47] 4Jhín (Swain): only game i can play today and ekko ruined it [26:54] 4Jhín (Swain): thanks [27:14] [All] 4Jhín (Swain): id prefer to have 4 of him than this eko tbh [27:50] [All] 4Jhín (Swain): how am i toxic? [27:55] [All] 4Jhín (Swain): ive barely said a word lol [30:42] 4Jhín (Swain): ww shes trying to tilt u so she can report u [30:46] 4Jhín (Swain): just mute her [32:27] 4Jhín (Swain): push [33:38] [All] 4Jhín (Swain): elise ur being very toxic can u please stop [33:52] [All] 4Jhín (Swain): ww already muted u so the rest of us are the only one seeing it [38:27] 4Jhín (Swain): 1300 fucking damage with his ult lul [41:17] [All] 4Jhín (Swain): this sohuld have been an easy game T-T [41:33] [All] 4Jhín (Swain): for me [42:29] 4Jhín (Swain): push [42:34] 4Jhín (Swain): plz [42:41] 4Jhín (Swain): forget it [42:59] 4Jhín (Swain): im just pushing top [46:48] [All] 4Jhín (Swain): bg [46:49] [All] 4Jhín (Swain): honor me

[1:30] [All] 4Jhín (Tryndamere): jax is salty af xD [1:45] [All] 4Jhín (Tryndamere): i didnt? [1:52] [All] 4Jhín (Tryndamere): hess mad i banned yorick when he never queued him up [2:25] [All] 4Jhín (Tryndamere): u first [4:14] 4Jhín (Tryndamere): bye [4:51] 4Jhín (Tryndamere): he quit he didnt dc [9:56] [All] 4Jhín (Tryndamere): how r u so dam fast [13:51] 4Jhín (Tryndamere): dont fight, farm, stay close to turret [16:13] 4Jhín (Tryndamere): we can win if u will just stop complaining and farm [17:42] 4Jhín (Tryndamere): ^ [17:59] 4Jhín (Tryndamere): lul [18:01] 4Jhín (Tryndamere): that flash [18:21] 4Jhín (Tryndamere): we r carrying right now [21:04] 4Jhín (Tryndamere): sona is just about as jax [21:19] 4Jhín (Tryndamere): k [21:25] 4Jhín (Tryndamere): y so toxic [21:42] 4Jhín (Tryndamere): ^ [21:48] 4Jhín (Tryndamere): they suck we can win ez lol [22:08] 4Jhín (Tryndamere): lmfao they were hising in bush [22:15] 4Jhín (Tryndamere): how is she not being toxic [22:17] 4Jhín (Tryndamere): plz tell me [22:30] 4Jhín (Tryndamere): i havent said a dam thing [22:33] 4Jhín (Tryndamere): i was trying to help [23:55] 4Jhín (Tryndamere): nasus can u tank [24:11] 4Jhín (Tryndamere): if u tank we can maybe 2v5 this [24:41] 4Jhín (Tryndamere): ^ [26:00] [All] 4Jhín (Tryndamere): reports for all

So, you purposely edited the logs to show people on the fourums, in order to further your case.

But let's not fourget about pre-game, where you said

"how u going to report me in pregame?"

after telling your team to 'report him' four 'being a %%%got' and banning the champion they wanted to pick because you were in an argument.

Or the game befoure that where you troll your team by typing 'ggafklulez420kappa' to your team as the game is about to start.

This is your 4th penalty, and were told the last time you were penalized that further negative behavior would result in a perma-ban.

BUT WAIT - THERE'S MORE (infomercial voice)

You have 3 other perma-banned accounts. This is your fourth Jhin .

scazzman7 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Tantram,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=BUrtv2EB,comment-id=0055,timestamp=2017-06-19T23:56:00.780+0000)

I mean, you DID edit your logs. -snipped-

took you long enough

RiotRiot Tantram28 votes

Can't a guy take a vacation? :)

Paquay6 votes

Not allowed. Board crime doesn't rest, neither should our avenger. :P

AMYS GRAVE8 votes

Hope you had a good vacation.

ModWuks9 votes

{quoted}

Hope you had a good vacation.

FINALLY! Someone who hoped he had a good vacation. Thank you, Sixdogman. You're the hero the Boards deserves.

RiotRiot Tantram11 votes

Thank you!

Spideraxe4 votes

You have 3 other perma-banned accounts. This is your fourth Jhin .

You dropped these JhinJhinJhin, to make it a set

Fucck6 votes

Riot Tantram you are so damn savage, <.< I like it.

Chønklord6 votes

#Oh shit, the smite and ignite.

And here I was about to make a post about player support falsely banning this guy. Wow.

summoner 11 summoner 14

ModWuks9 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Tantram,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=BUrtv2EB,comment-id=0055,timestamp=2017-06-19T23:56:00.780+0000)

I mean, you DID edit your logs.

Gonna pin this comment for posterity

Jhin Jhin Jhin Jhin

ModAttysu The Poro3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Tantram,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=BUrtv2EB,comment-id=0055,timestamp=2017-06-19T23:56:00.780+0000)

I mean, you DID edit your logs. -snip-

https://media.tenor.com/images/9dac8192b4b475477730e2e00bbcabef/tenor.gif

ModFrom The Cosmos6 votes

Nothing feels better than sipping on my coffee reading such a beautiful story.

4Jhín1 votes

I never edited my logs. I copied exactly what was shown on the reform card. I don't know what you're trying to prove but if you wanted me to post everything on here you should have put it in the reform card. I can screenshot to prove it.


"how u going to report me in pregame?"

after telling your team to 'report him' four 'being a %%%got' and banning the champion they wanted to pick because you were in an argument.

And this is a complete lie. But who's going to believe me over a Riot admin right?

If you are going to try to make an example of me then go ahead but I know the truth and I'll make sure thousands more know as well.

Have a great day!

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Chønklord7 votes

Simple way to prove it: screenshot your report card and link it here.

4Jhín1 votes

I will tomorrow if Tantram doesn't delete it before then.

You will see it all eventually. I'm spreading it everywhere. I'm letting everyone see who Riot really is. :)

AMYS GRAVE10 votes

I will tomorrow

You sure that will give you enough time to photoshop them?

RiotRiot Tantram10 votes

I'll be here.

I'm not an 'admin', and I don't delete threads.

VoidStaresBack7 votes

Let's take a look at this logically, shall we, about what each side has to gain from lying in this instance.

What does Riot Tantram have to gain? Pretty much fuck-all. Let's just take this from a purely selfish standpoint without even taking into account the fact that Tantram is a human with empathy and a desire to do what is right: what does Riot have to gain from lying about your chat logs. Tantram bans one player amongst the many in the game. Cool. That's not even really a gain in and of itself. The only thing that's really gained is refusing to admit the system if flawed. Okay, perhaps that's a small gain. But take a look at the consequences. If it's proven that Riot is indeed lying, not only is the gain completely swept away, it also ruins Riot's credibility and especially that of Tantram himself. This could actually have a detrimental impact on his career because having the primary face of player relations be proven lying to those who are banned is exactly the opposite of what Riot wants.

And let's look at what's happened in the past. Tantram has, in the past, fully admitted when the system has been wrong and reversed bans, occasionally done manual reviews and taken an accelerated punishment down a tier, and in one highly unusual case reversed the ban of a player with genuinely toxic logs with major extenuating circumstances (the only toxicity had been while playing a custom game with nine friends and those friends reported them as a joke, all nine rescinded their reports in the thread so Tantram let them off with a stern warning). There is an established history of Riot posting honest chat logs and fixing their player behavior mistakes to the best of their ability, making it highly unlikely that they would ever lie over such a trivial matter as this.

What do you have to gain from lying about this? You can claim to discredit Riot, get some payback for them banning you, and take out your frustration at your ban on a convenient target. You can get some support from the people on these boards who believe that the punishment system is evil and will rally behind anyone trying to "stick it to the man". And what do you have to lose? Not that much, really. This is an anonymous account on the internet, you can easily make another one and begin posting from that and nobody will be the wiser. You'd have to make a new one to continue playing anyway because your current one is permabanned, so it's not like that's any extra effort on your part. All that will happen is the short-term derision of those who disbelieve you.

And let's not forget your insistence that you'll post the chat logs "tomorrow" rather than taking two seconds to screenshot them and post them. This is a huge red flag that you're going to attempt to modify them heavily to fit with your view of events rather than post the true logs. There is literally no other reason to delay on posting those screenshots, none that you can justify in any meaningful way.

tl;dr: Logically, you have more motive and less to lose from lying about this, which when combined with Riot Tantram's history makes it immensely more likely that you are the one lying here.

4Jhín1 votes

Also if you want to go into my previous accounts let's bring up the one that was hacked and banned while I was in the hospital with my dad. The response from your support was a real dandy.

http://imgur.com/27PJ1Yf

Lyndris4 votes

Doesn't that fact that you have other banned accounts, perhaps, show that the problem is, indeed, you?

4Jhín24 votes

I'm legitimately pissed about this. I have been trying so hard to reform and then get banned because someone was mad and reported everyone. This should never get anyone banned this way.

Even if I don't get my account back i hope this sheds some light on how badly the rules enforcement needs revamped. People are being banned just from people rage reporting.

SecondAirbane10 votes

storm into riots office and grab phreak and pull him in your white van into your house to unban the shit out of your account

hehexd FREE4JHIN

4Jhín4 votes

What's bad is I used to think Lyte was bad, Phreak is 100x worse imo.

archerno118 votes

{quoted}

What's bad is I used to think Lyte was bad, Phreak is 100x worse imo.

How is this Phreaks fault?

Nailington14 votes

It's not. There's just a lot of people who have seen him as the face of the game, or don't like his shout casting

HowIGankedYou2 votes

[deleted]

PresBushDid7116 votes

{quoted}

The chat logs are slightly toxic and if you already received a 14 day ban it shouldn´t be a surprise that the feedback system gets more sensitive with what you write.

And yes blaming others, telling them how they should play, writing that you mute them is slightly toxic. There is no need for that and it doesn´t create a positive atmosphere. Is someone toxic to you just mute them without telling him/her. Is the enemy midlane roaming? Then don´t blame your midlaner for it and watch the mini map for missing enemies next time.

I use to be fairly active on the tribunal, even made top 1000 (go me), and there is no way this would have been a punish... this would have been an immediate "Pardon" once the 30 sec lock out time was done.

Daddy Braum17 votes

Ive seen newborns more toxic than this You should submit a ticket to player support because this was pretty unjust #free4jhin

Starcraft243ver17 votes

Just open a ticket to the support, they'll probably unban you.

RottedApples12 votes

inb4 tantrum comes in to summoner 11 you with why you were actually banned.

SecondAirbane8 votes

FREE 4JHIN

FennekSucksAtLOL7 votes

I legit clicked on this thread expecting to see flaming in the chat log but in reality it doesn't seem like you said anything toxic, let alone ban worthy. In the name of more memes, FREE4JHIN.

Telephone Booth7 votes

I would love to explain to you in what way you are being an asshole... but I just can't find the proper evidence in these logs.

Cosnirak3 votes

4Jhín: elise ur being very toxic can u please stop

4Jhín: y r u so toxic

4Jhín: how is she not being toxic 4Jhín: plz tell me

These are all things that are a step too far. They aren't horrendous, and each alone isn't enough to warrant the ban in my opinion, but combined and after the 14 day ban it's at least pushing it. To me this is really on the line. You're calling people toxic and even briefly arguing with someone about it, which is always wrong. I wouldn't be surprised if your pinging is a little toxic as well.

Some of the lines I didn't quote are a bit bossy too, but it's hard to tell if that's more due to trying to say stuff quickly because you're in game or if you're really being demanding. I suggest that in the future (in or out of League) you make an effort to suggest more than command even when in a hurry to type things online.

Also are you sure there isn't a 3rd game shown in an e-mail about this?

Fayrii9 votes

I dont find that toxic at all, if this is the line then we could probably ban over 90% of the people in my games

iDemacia9 votes

This right here ^. Nothing he said was toxic stop acting like a special snowflake that is hurt by anything someone says.

Cosnirak3 votes

Have you ever stopped being a jerk just because someone you don't know said "hey stop being a jerk?" Have you ever seen that work with other people? It isn't about anyone being 'hurt.' It's just that you clearly aren't going to make anything better by saying it, and are almost certainly going to make things worse.

He's not trying to tilt an opponent with trash talk, he's making his own team more upset for no gain. Why would we want that in League (or anywhere really)? He would clearly be better off just saying nothing.

Again, it isn't horrendous. It's nowhere near the level of calling people all kinds of slurs, and once or twice on its own isn't something I think should be punished. I'm pretty sure I've said similar stuff on occasion when upset, but I try not to. The key is that he was already on very thin ice and this is a pattern of him saying something guaranteed to make that game a more negative experience for his team.

PresBushDid7112 votes

{quoted}

Have you ever stopped being a jerk just because someone you don't know said "hey stop being a jerk?" Have you ever seen that work with other people? It isn't about anyone being 'hurt.' It's just that you clearly aren't going to make anything better by saying it, and are almost certainly going to make things worse.

He's not trying to tilt an opponent with trash talk, he's making his own team more upset for no gain. Why would we want that in League (or anywhere really)? He would clearly be better off just saying nothing.

Again, it isn't horrendous. It's nowhere near the level of calling people all kinds of slurs, and once or twice on its own isn't something I think should be punished. I'm pretty sure I've said similar stuff on occasion when upset, but I try not to. The key is that he was already on very thin ice and this is a pattern of him saying something guaranteed to make that game a more negative experience for his team.

I think the key is that you are asking "how would x react to x". First, you are assuming said reaction. But more importantly riot had stated more than once that you are judged on your own words and deeds. While asking someone why they are being toxic probably accomplishes nothing, it's also not inherently toxic. Hell one of those 5 games last night our mid kept saying he had a peanut head and wanted to be roasted.... nothing to do with the game, accomplishes nothing... but doesn't make the statement toxic. Btw: I had no idea what he meant by it, don't know if it's a meme I'm not aware of, would love to be enlightened if thar is the case.

Cosnirak2 votes

I think the key is that you are asking "how would x react to x". First, you are assuming said reaction.

We all assume reactions to some degree before saying anything, and that's ok. When a friend playfully calls me a fa* he expects I'll laugh, as he should. I know that friend is gay and is saying it ironically. But he expects that if he says it to some stranger there's a good chance they won't take it well because they don't know him and whether or not he's being silly. Some level of assumption about people's reactions are essential to every day interactions.

While asking someone why they are being toxic probably accomplishes nothing, it's also not inherently toxic.

If you tell a stranger online that is upset to stop being upset and expect anything other than them becoming more upset because of it you are naive. Sure there are other possible reactions, and sometimes they do happen, but the most likely by far is that they get more upset. I'm pretty sure the OP knows this if they really think about it. And that is why the statement is toxic on its own, regardless of what the other person was saying or doing.

I have no idea what that person talking about a peanut head meant...

twogirlsonelane3 votes

{quoted}

We all assume reactions to some degree before saying anything, and that's ok. When a friend playfully calls me a fa* he expects I'll laugh, as he should. I know that friend is gay and is saying it ironically. But he expects that if he says it to some stranger there's a good chance they won't take it well because they don't know him and whether or not he's being silly. Some level of assumption about people's reactions are essential to every day interactions.

If you tell a stranger online that is upset to stop being upset and expect anything other than them becoming more upset because of it you are naive. Sure there are other possible reactions, and sometimes they do happen, but the most likely by far is that they get more upset. I'm pretty sure the OP knows this if they really think about it. And that is why the statement is toxic on its own, regardless of what the other person was saying or doing.

I have no idea what that person talking about a peanut head meant...

I'm not sure riot's stance is that statements that might cause someone to tilt more are bannable. In fact, I am sure that's not the stance as they have allowed mastery spam. There is nothing more tilting than the do nothing adc spamming their mastery symbol when the darius just dunked your team.

Cosnirak1 votes

It's not about a statement that "might cause someone to tilt." It's about saying stuff that is almost guaranteed to make someone upset, regardless of whether it affects their play.

There is nothing more tilting than the do nothing adc spamming their mastery symbol when the darius just dunked your team.

I can think of a lot of things that are far more tilting than that. And not just because that adc might well be trying to be funny by using it as a "I'm so awesome, kappa." Hell just imagine the situation you described happens, you're tilted by it, you say "my god that's tilting" and that adc responds "y u mad bro?" You're probably gonna wanna yell "f u a hole" at them without abbreviating it (but hopefully you'd just say that aloud, not in game :p ).

twogirlsonelane3 votes

{quoted}

It's not about a statement that "might cause someone to tilt." It's about saying stuff that is almost guaranteed to make someone upset, regardless of whether it affects their play.

I can think of a lot of things that are far more tilting than that. And not just because that adc might well be trying to be funny by using it as a "I'm so awesome, kappa." Hell just imagine the situation you described happens, you're tilted by it, you say "my god that's tilting" and that adc responds "y u mad bro?" You're probably gonna wanna yell "f u a hole" at them without abbreviating it (but hopefully you'd just say that aloud, not in game :p ).

Yes, but in both cases the action COULD tilt someone, the only difference is that riot actually put one in and encourages it's use. In both cases you are assuming the reaction it will cause, which isn't what cases are supposed to be judged on. The question when it's a ban due to logs is, are the logs, the words the person typed out, toxic. It isn't are the typed words likely to cause a reaction that might cause a reaction that is negative. If that were the case, Mr. Peanut head from my game might qualify because some people might be tilted from non sense in a ranked game.

Cosnirak1 votes

How would you react if someone said "hey Fayrii ur being very toxic can u pleas stop?" Keep in mind that if they're bothering to say something like that you're probably already at least annoyed and saying something because of it. Do you really think this is the sort of thing that will cause you to simply calm down and be nice? Or is this the sort of thing that will get you to say "f u dude" and be more upset? A stranger telling an upset person to chill almost never works. It's even less likely to work over the internet.

And simply saying "y r u so toxic" is even worse, you're not even asking them to stop nicely like the first line I quoted. It's a lot like "stop being a dick" or "y u mad bro" and is clearly going to do nothing but make the situation worse. The correct thing to do is just mute that person or if you honestly think they'll be receptive to it you can nicely remind them that what they're saying isn't gonna fix anything.

If over 90% of the people in your games say stuff like this... I'm very glad I'm not in your games. These sorts of lines happen in far less than 10% of my games, let alone from that percent of players in my games.

Barkhoof4 votes

There's a difference. The OP voiced their concern, did not belabor it, and even gave advice to a teammate to ignore an opponents jabs. As for your statement about "telling people to chill never works", by that extension, do you think telling people to chill warrants a punishment?

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