If you want to fix toxicity start banning people who intentionally ruin games.

Nigel Moguberry··5 votes·1,441 views
http://i.imgur.com/CHmQNJj.png

I've been back and forth with 3 different "Support Representatives," in the past 4 days. I made a ticket regarding people who ruin ranked games, and why my time and other players time constantly gets wasted, while we take Full LP Losses, on top of the time spent in in pregame and champ select. Above is the full transcript of my encounters so far with Riot Support on this matter. I was told by two different reps to post on the Forums so other people could see this.

Ive played for well over 4 years, and this is the only game I know of that punishes Verbal Behavior well above anything else, and does little to nothing about the actual causes of said toxicity. Players constantly waste other players time for literally the smallest reasons, and we are just told to stomach it, report and move on. We are told to mute those players, even though muting won't make them play better, prevent them from afk running down lane, or following your jungler around taking camps. We play a game where it's okay to go 0/15 every game, but ask someone to play Safe, or buy wards and they report you for "Toxicity." It's such a broad statement now that it's used to describe game mechanics, or anything that isn't "Good Job." Hell, you say GG in chat when you have 2 peole with a combined score of 3/18 at 15 minutes, you can get reported for being "Toxic." It's honestly a joke at how much Riot focuses on "Toxicity," but won't do anything to the people who actually breed it.

I spend on average, 20 minutes between Queue and Pregame, and most of my games are over before the 20 minute mark. Constantly see games where people drop 1/15, or scores similar, and these players clearly don't care about climbing or winning. I spend more time in queue and pregame than I do actually getting to play the game. Someone dies once, starts feeding, and then goes afk. If you look at these players match histories, and see that 75% of the matches they play consist of 10+ deaths with minimal kills or assists, and a 40% or lower winrate, you have to wonder how these players are still allowed to play. Meanwhile the players that want to Climb/Win get shafted if we say anything to these players in chat. When 2 or more people have literally 20+ deaths between them before you can even surrender, it just ends up being not only a huge waste of time, but you find yourself asking "why even bother?" It just ends up being a waste of everyones time, and that time that is constantly wasted holds no value in the eyes of Riot.

The players who do want to win though, take full LP losses, get their time wasted, and there's nothing in game to prevent these measures at all. I'm told to Play with Premades to prevent people from feeding, which is complete ludicrous. There are plenty of solo players who get stuck with 4 mans all the time, and 4 mans feeds just the same as a group of solo players. Not to mention 4 man premades are extremely toxic compared to your average solo player, because they feel the need to defend themselves or their friend who is intentionally going out of their way to lose. I've had premades forfeit winning games simply because I've said something like "Get a sightstone," or "We need more vision." I've been a solo players ever since I played Ranked, 90% of my ranked games are Solo queue, being told that the only way to prevent feeding is to Premade is a bandaid answer.

They refuse to segregate players who go out of their way to ruin games, aka Ranked Restriction, which is/was a thing for "Verbal Abusive Players." I encounter more Trolls on a daily basis than toxic players, I get many more games ruined by Trolls than I do by toxic players. I see 2 and 3 man premades feed all the time, and end with scores like 3/14 botlane and 2/11 jungle, all within 20/30 mins Sitting in a game for 40 mins while 3 people afk run down lane, while refusing to surrender isn't a good use of any players time. Players like this, who go out of their way to ruin games just make the climb harder and more tedious than it is. They deserved to just be banned on sight. Trolling/Greifing is a bigger impact on a game than almost anything a player could say to someone else.

Dynamic queue hasn't changed anything. People get their best roles, and still end up looking at a grey screen for half of the game. Just because someone gets their best or second best role doesn't mean they want to win or climb. It all just ends up being a waste of time. Just because a player mains X roll doesn't mean hes not going to go in and feed to his hearts desire.

The only players I see getting banned for this behavior are people who stream it for months or years on end. It ends up taking Pros speaking up about X player, because hes taking their views, or A reddit post hitting the frontpage about Y player, whos been intentionally feeding for 4 years, for anything to actually happen. Anything short of this, nothing is/will be done. Our wasted time is of no value to Riot.

If you honestly want to fix this 'Toxicity" issue, then start by dealing with these players. The ones who go out of their way to lose games because of the smallest things. People who constantly try to win, and put forth all their effort every game continue to get their time wasted, lose FULL LP, and it just lessens the morale for these players. It makes the climb that much harder, and tedious. Give us LP Reductions in games where people intentionally troll. Give us someway to restart, or end a game early under the same circumstances. Sitting around for 20+ in queue, then getting into game just to have 2 people be 1/15 by 20 minutes isn't my definition or fun, nor is it a good use of time for any player. It's ranked, the only thing that should matter is the Win and the Climb. In order to Climb, you need LP, in order to get LP you need to win. If you want to have fun, and see how many times you can die, there's always normals, or the rotating game modes. Yet, people constantly play ranked with the mindset of "it's just a game," and are shocked when someone asks them to stop trolling when they are afk running down lane with a score of 0/9 at 12 mins.

The sooner that these players are actually dealt with in EVERY ELO, not just Plat+, and not just people who are stupid enough to stream it... The sooner people will actually be able to enjoy ranked and actually climb at a decent rate. How can that your system is truly working when most of my losses are caused by people who troll/feed and not by people being toxic. You can mute "Toxic Players," you can't do anything about those who go out of their way trolling games because of 1 or more players on their team. Just like I've said for years, it's a team game. It takes 5 to win, and only one person to lose. That's how its always been, that's how it always will be. Players who consistently feed or grief need to actually be punished, and despite Riot stating they are doing so, in the most vague manner possible. Without providing any evidence, enough players have shown that this really isn't the case. If it was it wouldn't be a bigger problem than the "perceived Toxicity," issue that riot has been humping for the past 4 years.

18 Comments

Guy Fox Teemo4 votes

Two Wrongs don't make a right. You have the right to be frustrated about a troll, but that doesn't give you the right to be a douche back.

PDE5 Inhib2 votes

I think OP's point is that if you ban the first wrong, the second doesn't happen any where near as frequently.

Guy Fox Teemo2 votes

The first wrongs are banned, but theres 67,000,000 people playing this game, and you aren't banned on first offence, so every now and then you will encounter a troll.

The second wont happen often if you just dont' act like a douche.

PDE5 Inhib2 votes

I saw a guy that had an average score of 0-30-1 over the course of 150 games. Yeah, they ban em alright.

The second also wouldn't happen if people weren't idiots :)

Nigel Moguberry1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Guy Fox Teemo,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=52rwUTVn,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2016-05-16T21:22:23.007+0000)

The first wrongs are banned, but theres 67,000,000 people playing this game, and you aren't banned on first offence, so every now and then you will encounter a troll.

The second wont happen often if you just dont' act like a douche.

I wasn't aware telling someone who is Intentionally feedigt to "Stop Feeding," was "being a douche." You should get your priorities straight. You are probabaly one of these people that reports someone for saying "Play safe and farm" when you are behind in lane.

BlueThingamajig1 votes

Hey mate, I get that its really frustrating to have a feeder on your team, but consider this:

An actual troll wants you to be frustrated, to be upset. They don't necessarily want to ruin the game, they want to ruin your day. It just so happens that ruining the game is their method of choice. When they see you say "stop feeding" or something of that vein, they think "Haha, I'm making this person salty", and continue their behavior

A bad player or a player who is having a bad game knows that they are feeding, and are trying to stop it (but either because they are tilted or just that far behind) but cannot, and saying "stop feeding" won't help anything. It's not like they'll magically become a better player or less tilted.

Now, I'm not saying that "stop feeding" is a report-worthy offense. I personally wouldn't report for that. Instead, I'm suggesting that it might be in your interest to not say that. I'm suggesting that it benefits you, not from the perspective of Riot, but from the perspective of yourself. Calling these things out does not benefit you, nor does it benefit anyone else on the team, nor does it benefit

tl;dr Trolls want you to react. The only way to beat a troll is to not react to them and report them at the end of the game. When you react, the trolls win.

PDE5 Inhib1 votes

Been saying it. Maybe the person who took over for Lyte has some common sense. We shall see.

Astôlfo1 votes

So... Just because others do it makes it okay for you to do it?

Nigel Moguberry1 votes

{quoted}

So... Just because others do it makes it okay for you to do it?

What are you reffering to? I didn't say this anywhere in the post, please outline where I said this.

Astôlfo1 votes

You're screaming at Riot to ban only those who start said toxicity. The ones that reply in a similarly toxic fashion to said players aren't any better.

Nigel Moguberry1 votes

{quoted}

You're screaming at Riot to ban only those who start said toxicity. The ones that reply in a similarly toxic fashion to said players aren't any better.

That's not it. I'm saying that Trolling and Griefing is a bigger issue than Verbal Toxicity, and that if they actively dealt with people who seek to ruin other players games via these forms, then toxicity wouldn't be an issue at all. We have no ways of dealing with these players in game other than taking the LP loss, wasting the time, and reporting them hoping someday something will happen to them.

Astôlfo1 votes

But obviously the system isn't perfect and some trolls/griefers will get through. Expecting the system to be perfect is naive. And punishing players who are verbally toxic as well isn't anything bad either, because there is no valid reason to be verbally toxic.

Nigel Moguberry1 votes

{quoted}

But obviously the system isn't perfect and some trolls/griefers will get through. Expecting the system to be perfect is naive. And punishing players who are verbally toxic as well isn't anything bad either, because there is no valid reason to be verbally toxic.

Again, no where in this post did I say being verbally toxic is Okay. Please show me where I said calling someone who trolls a "Fucking Retard," or telling a troll to "KYS," was ok. Calling someone a Troll, or asking them to stop trolling, when they are clearly trolling isn't toxic. Just like telling someone to play safe and farm under tower, when they are behind isn't toxic. Yet some people believe anything that isn't Praise, is considered toxic.

I don't expect it to be fullproof, but I expect it to actually work. If the system was working I wouldn't constantly have players in my game afk walking down lane, respawning, and repeating the process.

It took Tyler1 taking views from other pros to be banned, Meteos literally complained about how many viewers one had compared to him, and after it hit the frontpage RIot acted on it. It took Rainman getting a post on the frontpage about his stream to get banned, after he had been intentionally feeding for years on end. It took Dotdot multiple videos, reddit posts, and pros complaining for riot to do anything about it. The system is seriously flawed.

FrankerX1 votes

tl:dr?

Nigel Moguberry1 votes

{quoted}

tl:dr?

TL:DR Our time wasted by players isn't even recognized by Riot. We are forced to dodge if we encounter these players in champion select, and have no means of dealing with them once the game starts. We take full LP losses, on top of wasting time. Some times you spend more time in Queue/Pregame than you do actually in game. The issue of Troll/Griefing is a bigger issue than Verbal Toxicity, but Toxicity is the only thing Riot will move on. Players that drop 10+ deaths every game with Minor Kills or assists still get to play after 100s of games, but if you say anything in chat like "Stop trolling, Play Seriously, they report you and you almost instantly get dealt with. Riots response to this issue is to Queue into a Premade with 4 other friends to prevent people from feeding, which doesn't help players like myself who usually just play solo. We have no control over someone elses actions in game, and we take huge penalties when one of more people on our team decide to Troll or Grief for whatever reason they have. Riot claims to be actively involved with cases of intentional feeding, but it's much more common than people who are toxic. The win and the climb are all that should matter in ranked, and those players who see to undermine the rest of their team by intentionally trying to lose shouldn't be able to play in the ranked environment.

EndGamer111 votes

More players are punished for verbal toxicity because it is more common and easier to detect. While Riot does have systems in place to detect intentional feeding, they give some leeway because there is a chance the player had a bad game. It is like asking "Why are more people given speeding tickets than sent to jail for armed robbery?"

VivaLaKitten1 votes

some people just don't too well nothing you can really do about it :/

Dongerdoodle1 votes

The solution is to reform the tribunal, because it's full of people who don't take the context of the other players into account at all, and just ban the person who is reported the most, in a sort of popularity contest. Not to mention reporting is completely broken in 3v3, where you can get banned permanently if you happen to get into a game with a duo queue troll, and happen to be an extreme asshole towards trolls.

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