Can we punish players for not following their "Roles"?

Tabinho·Mar 11, 2016·82 votes·6,919 views

Whole point of this system was to sort out everyone's roles in Champ Select.

I've had a guy in team who got Mid, but locked in Kalista and typed "I'm going bot, I don't want mid", so I (in this case a random player who got Bot) was forced to play mid, a role I'm not very comfortable on, leading to poor performance and a loss.

I've also had a guy in team who said he was choosing Support / Fill as his preferred roles to make sure queue times were low. Having gotten Support he Typed he wanted to play Top or Mid and wasn't going to play Support.

And why can't they be punished for not obeying the rules?

Don't tell me that Riot doesn't want to force the meta and everyone is free to innovate. If everyone is okay with what's going on, no one will send a report and everything will be fine, but I personally queue up with Bot / Top to play one of these roles and not Mid, or Jungle, just because some random guy doesn't want the role he got.

112 Comments

Sona PingMar 11, 201628 votes

"And why can't they be punished for not obeying the rules?"

You are wrong about this. Riot Lyte publicly announced that simply taking another person's role in dynamic queue is reportable and severe enough to be punished with a ban.

alasarcherMar 11, 201619 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sona Ping,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=2okLTE7R,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-03-11T19:43:22.628+0000)

"And why can't they be punished for not obeying the rules?"

You are wrong about this. Riot Lyte publicly announced that simply taking another person role in dynamic queue is reportable and severe enough to be punished with a ban.

He didnt say "simply taking". But forcing. These are his words:

" If new Champ Select gave you "Top," and you force Jungle on your teammates, that's bannable."

For example if someone gets support role, he can pick Jayce and go bot, he doesnt have to build support or play as support. Thats not banable. But trying to force someone else out of his lane to go support, thats whats banable.

Weeb GuardianMar 12, 20164 votes

You understand that if that guy got a role and took another without the other guy to agree to the trade, he stole his role and forced him into another right?

Sona PingMar 12, 20163 votes

I know I didn't write a direct quote, and I thought that was pretty clear.

Riot Lyte " If new Champ Select gave you "Top," and you force Jungle on your teammates, that's bannable."

Your supposed correction is exactly what I wrote.

"simply taking" as in "just taking", as in "only", as in that is all that they did. That they just took it. As in just flat out taking someone else's role away from, which causes them to be forced out, that alone is bannable. No smacktalk or threats to feed required. Stealing a role, "simply taking" it away from another person, that alone is serious enough to be reported and banned.

That is the meaning of the words that are written there.

Further, I have no idea how you got

{quoted} For example if someone gets support role, he can pick Jayce and go bot....

...this bizarre idea that there was a comment in there about how a person couldn't play certain champs or whatever when they are support.

XinZhao2WinNhaoMar 11, 20165 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sona Ping,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=2okLTE7R,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-03-11T19:43:22.628+0000)

You are wrong about this. Riot Lyte publicly announced that simply taking another person role in dynamic queue is reportable and severe enough to be punished with a ban.

That's really hypocritical. Riot said they don't enforce the meta but the dynamic queue is enforcing the meta by forcing us to have 1 top 1 mid 1 jg 1 bot and 1 support.

We should be allowed to 3 bot if we want to.

Dynamic queue sucks, is hypocritical and I will never support it.

Under the old rule if someone else had called mid, you were allowed to do 2 mid, like you should be. No need to pidgeon hole us into their meta.

AATTRROOXXMar 11, 20166 votes

If you want to play a different meta then go get a group of friends and play as five.

XinZhao2WinNhaoMar 11, 20162 votes

{quoted}

If you want to play a different meta then go get a group of friends and play as five.

Tell me again why I'm required to do that?

Riot has said all along they don't enforce the meta and I think it's super hypocritical of them to enforce the meta while still saying "we don't enforce the meta."

The old draft pick was perfectly fine, nothing needed to be changed.

AATTRROOXXMar 12, 20165 votes

You're required to do it because its the best way to win, proven over multiple seasons, and nobody wants to play a game without using the most effective strategy. [slayer-jinx-unamused]

JariMar 11, 201612 votes

If your group is fine with it, then it works out there. Riot isn't 100% forcing anything.

If they were, it'd be bannable to play certain champs in certain roles.

XinZhao2WinNhaoMar 11, 20163 votes

{quoted}

If your group is fine with it, then it works out there. Riot isn't 100% forcing anything.

If they were, it'd be bannable to play certain champs in certain roles.

Well, if your group isn't fine with 1 mid 1 bot 1 top 1 jg 1 support, then what about that huh?? But that's the default, that Riot set after saying they wouldn't, everyone is by default has to be "fine with it", but everything else is seen as something not encouraged???

By the dynamic queue Riot is literally setting a default for us and we don't want that. We want every meta to have equal merit.

DrCyanideMar 12, 20162 votes

Well, if your group isn't fine with 1 mid 1 bot 1 top 1 jg 1 support, then what about that huh??

There's a reason Riot doesn't change the roles that 5-man premades pick. They can choose 5-Mid and the system respects that.

If you've got a group that decides double jungle is way better than having a Support, that's fine too. Just so long as you're not forcing a situation where the Jungler feels like they can't jungle because someone's bucking the system.

JariMar 12, 20163 votes

1 top 1 mid 1 jungle 2 bot has shown for more than half of the game's life that it's the best, most gold efficient way to play. In a solo Q environment, they'd want you to prove your own individual skill usually. By the logic of that then, shouldn't Riot make a fourth lane so that we have one in each spot? Or is that too much because then they'd have to "enforce" that.

Riot is not enforcing a thing. As someone said, if you want to do something different, go with friends like Riot WANTS you to do.

XinZhao2WinNhaoMar 12, 20163 votes

{quoted}

1 top 1 mid 1 jungle 2 bot has shown for more than half of the game's life that it's the best, most gold efficient way to play. In a solo Q environment, they'd want you to prove your own individual skill usually. By the logic of that then, shouldn't Riot make a fourth lane so that we have one in each spot? Or is that too much because then they'd have to "enforce" that.

Riot is not enforcing a thing. As someone said, if you want to do something different, go with friends like Riot WANTS you to do.

When you set a default, that's enforcing.

For eample, if you allow all sizes of sodas, but for large sodas you need to know a special codephrase to buy, that's enforcing too.

If there's choice A and choice B, and you make choice B more difficult to access, that's enforcing.

JariMar 12, 20162 votes

Okay, let's try this logic back.

No option is enforcing you to think and enforcing you to cooperate with the strangers to come up with the best game plan in a minute. Therefor everything is enforcing.

The point of this is so that those trolling players who just force their teamates in their rolls are more easily caught. Time and time again we hear people complain back in the old champ select that someone stole their role over and over. Riot has difficulty with that beacuse reports always read in game chat. With new champ select though, you signed up for the role and therefor the client can read it better.

Would you prefer we go back to "mid or feed" every ranked match?

XinZhao2WinNhaoMar 12, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Okay, let's try this logic back.

No option is enforcing you to think and enforcing you to cooperate with the strangers to come up with the best game plan in a minute. Therefor everything is enforcing.

The point of this is so that those trolling players who just force their teamates in their rolls are more easily caught. Time and time again we hear people complain back in the old champ select that someone stole their role over and over. Riot has difficulty with that beacuse reports always read in game chat. With new champ select though, you signed up for the role and therefor the client can read it better.

Would you prefer we go back to "mid or feed" every ranked match?

Actually yes I would.

At least in the old one, you are free to go anywhere you want as long as you don't kick someone out. You want double jungle, sure go for it as long as you don't say "I'm jungle you gtfo."

JariMar 12, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Actually yes I would.

At least in the old one, you are free to go anywhere you want as long as you don't kick someone out. You want double jungle, sure go for it as long as you don't say "I'm jungle you gtfo."

And then they go in anyways, ruin the game for you, but stay quiet through the match and you can't report them because the system can't tell where you wanted to go.

The new system literally puts you somewhere. And if you want to alter it, you work as a team on it, not just say, "Fuck you I wanted top." In ranked people will use the most effective way to climb up the ladder. Why do you think the games before hand had the same method, and any that altered were considered having a troll by that team?

XinZhao2WinNhaoMar 12, 20161 votes

{quoted}

And then they go in anyways, ruin the game for you, but stay quiet through the match and you can't report them because the system can't tell where you wanted to go.

The new system literally puts you somewhere. And if you want to alter it, you work as a team on it, not just say, "Fuck you I wanted top." In ranked people will use the most effective way to climb up the ladder. Why do you think the games before hand had the same method, and any that altered were considered having a troll by that team?

Before, it wasn't called having a troll on the team, it's called you can go anywhere you want as long as you don't kick someone else out.

The old system was pretty much "this is an open house. Anyone can live in it, but you can't kick any existing inhabitants out."

The new system is "This is my house. If you want to live here, you have to ask me."

The old system was much better for cooperation in a team for video games.

JariMar 12, 20163 votes

Because you were never ever ever hindered by someone just coming to your lane and trying to take your spot.

You are hindering a player's experience by going into their lane and taking it from them. You forcing them into another lane isn't the question. You are RUINING their PLAY experience intentionally, which is reportable.

Or did you do it a lot and upset that the system can actually read your spot now? Know what? We should go back to making first pick have all the power too while we're at it. And make Champ select take 3 years because nobody wants to lock in. Let's go back to having the first picker ban your preferred champ because he didn't see it in chat. That must have been SO much fun.

ShonjlMar 12, 20161 votes

You are complaining about wanting to get a role when you can just.....set it as your choice. If you do Mid/Top Why the hell will you do Jungle, you didn't choose it, you don't get it.

I am sorry but I find what you are trying to get at is incredibly retarded lol. You are upset you can't do X when you choose to be Y and Z. Pick X then if you want it.

XinZhao2WinNhaoMar 12, 20161 votes

{quoted}

You are complaining about wanting to get a role when you can just.....set it as your choice. If you do Mid/Top Why the hell will you do Jungle, you didn't choose it, you don't get it.

I am sorry but I find what you are trying to get at is incredibly retarded lol. You are upset you can't do X when you choose to be Y and Z. Pick X then if you want it.

I want to do duo mid. There's no "Duo mid" option there is there?

sreggadMar 12, 20161 votes

If your part of a 5 man team you can do this anyways. If your not in a 5 man team you shouldn't be trying that shit anyways.

The old system nor the current system was intended for one person to force a team to have to play in a way they didn't want or intend to. If you have a team of 5 and you want to play a completely non-meta team setup you can it doesn't matter where your put. Your a team of 5 and are choosing yourself.

You shouldn't make any other person have to pay in an ineffective way because you want to play soloQ and you want to play a special snowflake way.

I go into a game of league excepting the 1 top 1 mid 1 jungle 1 ADC 1 support. That's how the game has been for years. If I go in as an ADC I'm expecting a support. Even in a game where it's you and a friend duoQing and you both pick mid/support support/mid and then have the intention of going duo mid. Your actively ruining the game for that ADC and if you do that you are forcing someone out of their intended lane.

If your team all agrees with that and you would play support if they all weren't okay with it. Then you wouldn't be reported for doing it which means you have no worries of repercussions. You do it anyways even though you have people who are expecting a duo bot and you want to be a special snowflake. You will get reported.

Riot isn't forcing a meta style but they have to have some sort of boundaries. This doesn't affect a 5 man at all. And good luck getting into a game if you had to put in "duo mid" as your role choice because if they allowed that they would put in exceptions to it. so you could put "solo mid" and you would have longer ques then you do without putting support.

Nik NikersonMar 14, 20161 votes

IT'S THE EXACT SAME THING.

You're just talking out your ass at this point. Team builder had everyone assigned to the exact same positions you're railing against with Dynamic Queue. And you can still play any type of champion in those positions. It's the exact same amount of freedom.

And if you love a complete free for all, just go play blinds. No assigned positions there. I mean, everyone is still going to get angry as hell with you, but at least it's the old system that you loved so much.

sreggadMar 14, 20161 votes

Congrats on not reading the comment of the person who you replied to. You're a genius to only your parents.

fractalfantasiesMar 12, 20161 votes

You're literally demanding the right to troll your team.

I hope Riot bans you based on your posts tbh.

XinZhao2WinNhaoMar 12, 20161 votes

{quoted}

You're literally demanding the right to troll your team.

I hope Riot bans you based on your posts tbh.

I haven't done duo mid so far, but I think that it's unfair for Riot to say they're not enforcing a meta while they are. I have done duo jungle with my team once, and we all agreed to it, and it was super fun, though I have to say. But back to the topic of "not enforcing the meta" while enforciing the meta.

Totally hypocritical. Hypocrisy is the problem here.

If they had just said "we are enforcing the meta" that'd suck, but at least it's honest and not hypocritical.

Or they could bring back the team captain thing from normal team builder where they could select team comp. That's worked out really well.

JariMar 12, 20161 votes

If they're enforcing the meta that much, please do a test for me.

Get banned for Playing Galio, and only for playing Galio, and I'll sacrifice everything I have you put you back where you are currently.

Galio I see works against AP mids and sometimes support. Play him there. Don't AS Galio jungle, that's obviously trolling. Give a shit about your game and try to win.

Galio isn't meta and is considered breaking it. Therefor if Riot enforces it so much they'll punch you in the face with a perma ban over it. :P

XinZhao2WinNhaoMar 12, 20161 votes

{quoted}

If they're enforcing the meta that much, please do a test for me.

Get banned for Playing Galio, and only for playing Galio, and I'll sacrifice everything I have you put you back where you are currently.

Galio I see works against AP mids and sometimes support. Play him there. Don't AS Galio jungle, that's obviously trolling. Give a shit about your game and try to win.

Galio isn't meta and is considered breaking it. Therefor if Riot enforces it so much they'll punch you in the face with a perma ban over it. :P

Meta is not only champs and builds.

Lane comp is meta too.

And as long as I'm doing well I have a right to AS Galio Jungle. I played a game with 5x Statikk Shiv Akali and carried my team with 55 kills.

JariMar 12, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Meta is not only champs and builds.

Lane comp is meta too.

And as long as I'm doing well I have a right to AS Galio Jungle. I played a game with 5x Statikk Shiv Akali and carried my team with 55 kills.

First, link me to that game. I want to see that.

Second of all, it's the most efficient way in terms of gold. Thank your playerbase for figuring that out. Not to mention this is a combinations of old champ select and team builder to help improve it. What was team usually? Oh. 1 top 1 jungle 1 mid 1 adc 1 support. And if you broke from that your queue could take the whole time unless you got someone cool with it or someone that didn't notice. Riot WANTS to you to play, and taking away a teammate's gold is not allowing them to play.

But if you really are so much into this, here, let me repeat what I said before. You can do this magical thing that Riot wants you to do, and promotes you to do, and is trying to make you do, called playing with friends. Ya I know. What a shocker. Playing with people you enjoy and having fun together. I've never heard of anything like that before in a game about working as a team.

XinZhao2WinNhaoMar 13, 20161 votes

{quoted}

First, link me to that game. I want to see that.

I started 5 zeals + mobis but then I upgraded it to random stuff.

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1981138243/211275971?tab=overview

MODS: I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT ANYONES BEHAVIOR IM TALKING ABOUT MY OWN BUILD HERE. DON'T DELETE IM NOT SHAMING ANYONE.

But if you really are so much into this, here, let me repeat what I said before. You can do this magical thing that Riot wants you to do, and promotes you to do, and is trying to make you do, called playing with friends. Ya I know. What a shocker. Playing with people you enjoy and having fun together. I've never heard of anything like that before in a game about working as a team.

I'm not talking about whether I want to play or not. I'm talking about how Riot shouldn't make it more difficult to choose one option over the other (requiring you to play with a premade of 5 is making one option less accessible than the other), as that's enforcing, which would make Riot's statement of "not enforcing the meta" to be hypocritical, and I don't like hypocritical.

TheOperatorsBoxMar 13, 20161 votes

From what I've understood, the current meta is what a vast majority of people play into. They pick meta picks such as ahri mid or shyvana jungle, etc. People build meta builds, and sometimes they don't. However, one game has no point but to amuse. Play 100 games with that akali build, and you'll win a lot less than you would if you built her into the meta. There is a reason builds are very subject to change as items are added and as items are changed to give you the best chance of succeeding. For example, AP Vayne isn't a thing. At all. You will never carry as full AP Vayne, unless the enemy is full of trolls and feeders.

Yea, Riot doesn't want to enforce the meta, and no game company really wants that either. You don't see Pokemon having an enforced meta in competitive, but if you want to succeed at a much higher rate, follow the meta. Team Builder was an example of somehow enforcing the meta, but it is a fair enforcement. Why? It is a well-established meta that has been tested and retested by the community. This system is much better than Team Builder, in my honest opinion, as it gives you a Team Builder-like take on draft, with assigned roles and the like.

Team Builder is one of the better modes, since you could see who the teammates want to play and where, and you can accept or decline in that fashion. However, you cannot ban champs.

Since Season 1 there was the current meta of 1-1-1-2. It wasn't prevalent, since the game was brand new. After worlds, the meta exploded, outclassing the other comps. This shows that the meta was, and is, the most efficient way to win.

Now, if Riot imposes the meta, does that change much at all?

No, it doesn't. You could go into draft, and do the same shenanigans as you would in any other mode. You'd be called a troll if you just forced it, "I'm here gtfo," or "double jungle too bad," or some shit like that. If it was ok with your team, though, you would be a-ok.

Riot has a right to suggest us to go to the meta, as it has proven successful over and over again. They are in no way forcing us, or any more than they did in team builder.

If the new dynamic queue is actually enforcing the meta, it is no more enforcing than the recommended item page.

Also, league has always been a 5v5 game, and you don't need a pre-made to play!

DREADN0UGHTMar 12, 20162 votes

{quoted}

When you set a default, that's enforcing.

For eample, if you allow all sizes of sodas, but for large sodas you need to know a special codephrase to buy, that's enforcing too.

If there's choice A and choice B, and you make choice B more difficult to access, that's enforcing.

What a shity parallel.

Troll for TrumpMar 12, 20161 votes

If that's the case, all the metabreaking youtubers who pick severely offmeta pick without team consent should be punished. Especially those that try to get people pissed off and then tries to turn it on them.

JariMar 12, 20162 votes

{quoted} If they were, it'd be bannable to play certain champs in certain roles.

Riot doesn't enforce the meta. Those YouTubers you mention only strengthen that statement.

Now if they're doing it with the intent of throwing the game and assisting the enemy, then it'd be assisting enemy team. But you can't report the guy for doing Nid ADC, as an example.

MVDuneCatsMar 12, 20161 votes

{quoted}

We should be allowed to 3 bot if we want to.

If by "we", you mean "my whole team", then yes, you should be able to. Find 4 other player that want to innovate in that fashion, and you're good to go. You shouldn't be reporting one another in that scenario.

XinZhao2WinNhaoMar 12, 20162 votes

{quoted}

If by "we", you mean "my whole team", then yes, you should be able to. Find 4 other player that want to innovate in that fashion, and you're good to go. You shouldn't be reporting one another in that scenario.

Or bring back old teambuilder where the captain can set what he wants for his team and look for people who want to play that with him.

jmanosuMar 12, 20161 votes

unless you agree in chat to switch.

Sona PingMar 12, 20162 votes

Well of course. That's not taking it away from someone, that's switching.

AraMoOseMar 11, 201611 votes

Yes, Riot has made official statements saying that this is a bannable offense. Unless you agree to a switch with the person who's lane you're swapping to, you must play your assigned role.

The DeckownerMar 11, 20167 votes

that one time i went support/fill and somehow didnt get support

RawMar 11, 20164 votes

Would be nice if we also have an option to trade roles to avoid false reports. http://www.auplod.com/u/uopadl6d63e.png

PokkuMar 12, 20161 votes

As far as I know, roles are not taken into account because Riot doesn't want to enforce a meta. Or did I misunderstand your point?

EDIT: Nevermind, I just read something on Reddit saying they can check roles.

redniwediSMar 11, 20161 votes

It depends. If a support wants to play as a roamer instead, and they clearly communicate what they are doing, it's not really punishable. They are similar roles, and one is not an available option when queuing.

If someone wants to go to a different lane then it really just depends on their team. If they were given support but wanted top they could ask to switch roles. If the top laner says yes then there's no need for punishment, obviously.

The problem comes in when the top laner says no, or the support doesn't ask and goes there anyway. That is when it's reportable. It's not about the rules of the queue, it's about communication. The Summoner's Code trumps everything, even the setup of dynamic queue, and so it's those rules that decide whether something is reportable or not.

XinZhao2WinNhaoMar 11, 20166 votes

{quoted}

It depends. If a support wants to play as a roamer instead, and they clearly communicate what they are doing, it's not really punishable. They are similar roles, and one is not an available option when queuing.

If someone wants to go to a different lane then it really just depends on their team. If they were given support but wanted top they could ask to switch roles. If the top laner says yes then there's no need for punishment, obviously.

The problem comes in when the top laner says no, or the support doesn't ask and goes there anyway. That is when it's reportable. It's not about the rules of the queue, it's about communication. The Summoner's Code trumps everything, even the setup of dynamic queue, and so it's those rules that decide whether something is reportable or not.

It never said "support: bot" it just said "support." You have the right to support top lane if you want to.

Nik NikersonMar 12, 20162 votes

No, you have the option if your other teammates are okay with it.

ChaoticPineconeMar 12, 20163 votes

says who? As long as youre supporting someone, why does it matter?

Are you required to be attached to your ADC's hip when you lock in support? If my ADC is being toxic, you can be damn sure I'm supporting mid instead.

Nik NikersonMar 12, 20165 votes

Because

the ADC generally needs the support there the most
supporting someone when they are in a traditionally solo lane can mess up their game if they aren't expecting it. You want to roam, you roam, but most solo laners don't want you sitting in their lane for extended periods of time.

If you want to support mid, ask the mid laner before you mess up their experience as well. Think of someone other than yourself.

redniwediSMar 12, 20163 votes

Those are just reasons why you should support the ADC. They are not reasons why you have to.

That's the key here. Rules tell you what you have to do, and rules are what's in question.

Nik NikersonMar 12, 20164 votes

The question was asked "Why does it matter?" Those are reasons why it matters. As long as you aren't screwing up other people's experience, supporting another lane isn't against the rules. Going to support top when your top laner and adc don't want you to, or without letting people know what's gong on is trolling, and is against the rules. It comes down to communication, and respect for the other players in the game.

ChaoticPineconeMar 12, 20161 votes

Show me where it says supporting your top laner without your ADC's permission is agasint the rules.

Because its not. Support means support. It does not mean youre attached to your ADC unless your ADC allows you to do otherwise. I, as a player of the game, get to assess the flow of the game and put my support wherever I see fit. Its not trolling because my ADC doesnt like it. I dont have to follow every order they say just because im a support.

Supreme Senpai69Mar 12, 20162 votes

That's not what he's saying. He's saying if your top laner and your bot laner don't want you to go top, then you shouldn't go top. If your top wants you top and your ADC doesn't want you top, then do whatever you feel is right. If nobody wants you top and you say "screw you, I'm going to be top" then it's trolling and should be reported.

He's not talking about roaming top either, the context is like, duo top without anyone's permission.