Boards›Player Behavior

Topic: Current State of League's Toxicity?

Khodo··2 votes·2,982 views

hello hello, I've been scanning the forums for a couple of days now, mostly in the player behavior section and I found some interesting information.during my stay I've collected 'data' that there are two types of people. The Toxic and the Non-Toxic. The toxic people are mostly found on this board asking for answers to there presumed 'unjustified bans'. The non-toxic people are found responding on these boards and creating post's with manes like "Aren't people more toxic nowadays" or "Why is Trollmass a thing?". Quick note: The non-toxic people are treated like gods with there sense of justice and wisdom.

I'm no saint but I've got an opinion that I'd like to share. Since the majority of boards that are non personal are created form the non-toxic I'd like to explain the my POV as a once and always tryharding toxic player. A little history on me, I've been banned multiple times -chat logs, two week, perma you name it- but as much as I say I'll reform when complaining about my bans, but I won't. I'm naturally competitive and a big part of my personality is aggression. Now I want to make clear that I've also received bans outside of league for my aggression. I've received many warnings and penalties in my local soccer team for the use of uncontrolled language and physicality. Aside from jokes about being poorly treated as a child for my aggression its not. I enjoy my surrounds immensely and I'm quite sensitive.

Back to the topic at hand, I find this game is far to harsh on equipping penalties. People are far to fast to report and in general to fast to accuse. As I've said in past comments, I dislike league's player base but I HATE the league's support team. They're double faced dirtbags that can't make up there decisions on what is right or wrong. Like an stereotypical unjust white cop in a black neighborhood. They ban for different reasons and all have different perspectives. I was perma banned on this account and got lucky with an incredibly nice support who reduced my sentence to a 2 week, and I'll be honest I bulshited that man. I did him dirty but he was too NICE. I said some extremely awful things to deserve that ban and i was let off. Other times I'll receive bans for nothing at all, a two-week punishment for an argument between two respectable players on different opinions. When I went to support about it they brushed me off saying that continued small toxicity is worthy of a perma at some point. Which is another topic. And that man, that man was too MEAN. what I mean by all of this is I believe the support player system is to open to interpretation on when it comes down to reporting.

Now the players; the non-toxic players. They go to forums to explain how much they hate people trolling and to expose a players toxicity. They don't want players that are toxic and mean spirited. But. They'll call you out for being bad and retaliate with the same level of toxicity as you, of course with no ban, cause they are in the right. They want to banish all toxicity from league entirely, and to that I'll say my final point. Video games NEED toxicity. toxicity is competitive and competitive is rewards and rewards and what we build ourselves on. They are our accomplishments. Toxicity is just a nasty term for disagreeing. I should be able to tell my support who is playing 15 feet behind me and baiting me for kills that they are a "scumfuck loser that is a waste of sperm". I hate that support and I made sure that she knows it. Obviously there are boundaries that i do believe exist. Like death threats or racial slurs are outta the game. but relatively negative words like fuck, shit, ass, stupid, scum, loser, dumbass, garbage are all in a retaliative sense to be used. I should be able to call epicgamer259 whose jungling poorly and feeding with a 0/9/2 score that "your brain is tiny and you needs to spend a couple of hours in bots before you spread your extra chromosomes around the rift".

My point is: I dislike the uncertainty of possibly getting banned for nonsense, and I'd hate to just /mute all every game because I personally find the raw human interactions from this community to be an incredibly fun.

PS: fuck you rito give me my snowdown map you whore.

19 Comments

rujitra6 votes

Video games NEED toxicity. toxicity is competitive

You’re entitled to this opinion. Riot and the vast majority of the community disagree with you.

Please tell me in what sport you can flame and berate your teammates without swiftly being kicked off the team.

Nightsky Pirate1 votes

Games where killing is involved.

Sorry, that was smartass. Still...

Tele II2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nightsky Pirate,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=17lsvzxk,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-12-05T02:40:40.808+0000)

Games where killing is involved.

Sorry, that was smartass. Still...

Thats an interesting point though. Like, Esports are a new thing. Do we have to follow the status quo that sports have had through history? I dont have an absolute opinion one way or the other, but it is food for thought. Should E sports be handled differently than physical sports? Hmmmmm

ModPrandine

[{quoted}](name=Tele II,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=17lsvzxk,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2019-12-05T04:21:45.499+0000)

Thats an interesting point though. Like, Esports are a new thing. Do we have to follow the status quo that sports have had through history? I dont have an absolute opinion one way or the other, but it is food for thought. Should E sports be handled differently than physical sports? Hmmmmm

Well esports players and teams in many regions have been known to face punishments such as fines and suspensions (temp and perm) for poor behavior (flaming, cheating, not paying players on time, etc.), and Dardoch in particular is a player known for being difficult to work with and has been on many teams due to issues with his behavior. In that regard esports are like traditional sports in a way where consistently poor behavior is met with penalties. There's nothing wrong in my opinion with expecting players (both pro and non-pro) to display sportsmanlike conduct and holding them accountable if they don't.

Tele II1 votes

{quoted}

Well esports players and teams in many regions have been known to face punishments such as fines and suspensions (temp and perm) for poor behavior (flaming, cheating, not paying players on time, etc.), and Dardoch in particular is a player known for being difficult to work with and has been on many teams due to issues with his behavior. In that regard esports are like traditional sports in a way where consistently poor behavior is met with penalties. There's nothing wrong in my opinion with expecting players (both pro and non-pro) to display sportsmanlike conduct and holding them accountable if they don't.

Yeah, I can agree to that. I think attitude in general is an important part of any team oriented activity. A bad attitude can be very detrimental and brings everyone down, including the person with said bad attitude. I was gonna say a bad attitude only hurts yourself, but it hurts yourself AND others who have to work around it.

Raflica1 votes

I wouldn't say being competitive means people can be toxic. I would argue that being competitive isn't toxic.

Criticizing a teammate to get their game together happens in every sport I've ever played. If I miss a tackle in football and give up a 30 yard run, do you think my coach is the only person who is going to be screaming at me? Hell. No. My whole team is on me because they are working their butts off and losing the game because of me. I'm not saying dehumanizing players is part of sports, but I am saying that taking flak is part of competition. If you wan't to just relax and play a casual game, go play an unranked, casual game. If you want to play competitively then expect to get praised when you play well and criticized when you don't.

In the real world of competition, if you don't get your game together you get benched (or even kicked off the team). However, according to Riot, you are being toxic if you tell someone to get their game together. Any criticism can be viewed as offensive because criticism is inherently meant to show a person their flaws. As long as a player is offended enough to report you for being bossy and an agent at Riot thinks that person was reasonably offended, you are a toxic player and the scum of League. When in reality, you are playing ranked and just want your team to get their game together.

rujitra1 votes

People aren't punished for telling someone to "get their game together". People aren't punished for constructive criticism.

And no, the coach is not going to scream at you, nor will your team. You'll all get together after the game and review the plays and figure out what went wrong, then learn from it.

Raflica1 votes

Respectfully, I feel like you never played football in school or went to many games. Its not just one or two teams here and there that do this. I'm not telling you as a spectator i'm telling you as someone who played 3 different sports all 4 years of high school and two sports in college.

In any event, all that is beside the point. I fundamentally disagree with you that if you offend someone you are a mean person who should be punished. As a general rule, I shouldn't be able to control your actions based on what I think is right and wrong, and the same goes for you. After all, you wouldn't want me to be in charge of deciding what conduct is allowed on football teams when players mess up, would you?

All it takes to get banned in League is for you to offend someone, they report you, someone at riot also finds that offensive, and you get banned. The problem is there is no line telling you what is and is not acceptable. Riot can draw the line, i don't care. Just tell the community what it is that you measure with. Because the fact is a lot of people fundamentally disagree with where the line is in terms of morality, which is what you are arguing. And to the extent that Riot has the right to run its business how it wants, it needs to let contracting customers who are paying Riot money for services know what exactly Riot believes is wrong and impermissible.

The problem isn't that some people want to see the world burn and other people are nice. I'm with you on that. There are jerks out there who are racist, sexist, or otherwise have nothing nice to say, but if you are going to regulate something you gotta draw line somewhere so people know what it is you allow and what it is you don't. And where some people disagree with you and believe being upset while telling a teammate how to fix an error is actually a perfectly reasonable and human thing to do (and even within the person's right to do so), there needs to be a reason why you have the right to tell them they have no right to act that way. When it comes to League, that reason is "it is Riot's platform." And to the extent people pay to use it, Riot needs to enable customers to know what it believes.

rujitra1 votes

The line is clearly drawn with the Summoner’s Code.

Raflica1 votes

There is nothing "clear" about the word "harassment." Sorry. More people may agree with your definition the more egregious the conduct, but just because a majority of people agree with you doesn't make you right (or moral). A majority of the United States believed in slavery at one point, that didn't make it right to own slaves. I'm sorry but you are't moral just because you are part of the biggest group of people with a particular interpretation of "harassment;" you are just popular. But Hitler was popular, that didn't make him moral. No, morality doesn't come from collecting enough friends who agree with you so you can feel better about yourself when you push around a minority. What is moral and right comes from giving everyone the same equal opportunity as everyone else. And the way you do that is by applying the same standard to everyone. If everyone knows what the standard is, great. If you want to define what "harassment" means and say that's the standard, go right ahead. But you gotta define it, not just penalize people who legitimately disagree with you that "offensive" criticism (whatever that means) is harassment.

There isn't a single government on earth that has ever evenhandedly regulated speech. Riot isn't doing any better with a one-page Code of Conduct.

GatekeeperTDS3 votes

TOPIC: Not reading 6 paragraphs of this.

Tele II2 votes

Honestly, i stopped reading after "there are two types of people". Anytime someone boils things down to only "2 types of people" I know its not gonna be anything real or eye opening. Especially when its just you judging them as either "toxic" or "non toxic" lol. Toxic is such a vague, broad, and subjective term. Hopefully someone else enjoys reading your opinions though.

Raflica2 votes

There are so many problems with Riot "policing" where does one begin.

First off, the ban system is fundamentally based on what the community thinks, not what is disclosed in a terms of service. What is toxic is what is "offensive." Who the hell can measure that--Let alone consistently apply it?

Second, I am personally with you on letting people be who they are in chat... to the extent they aren't calling for violence (e.g. death threats). "offending" someone is not a standard that can be consistently applied evenhandedly. Riot will argue that they want a platform where everyone can play and enjoy the game. And they have that right; any business that wants to regulate how its services work has that right. But when people pay money to license the digital content from Riot, they have a right to expect to be able to use it under a specific agreement--that's the terms and conditions. There is a contract between Riot and users who license the digital content, a condition of that contract is that users don't violate the terms and conditions (e.g. harassment), but no one who enters a contract has the right subjectively alter the meaning of the terms of the contract after the parties agree to it. This isn't legal. It's wrong morally and its wrong legally. And just because you want to clean up a problem doesn't mean giving it your best effort is sufficient to justify breaching contracts in the process. People have a right to know what they can and cannot say when they license digital content from Riot and Riot does not make that possible with its ban system (for many of the reasons already pointed out).

If I walk by you on the sidewalk and drop a bucket of paint on your foot and you yell, "ouch! you Idiot," are you harassing me? Is the fact that I am "offended" that you called me an idiot sufficient to constitute your conduct was "harassment?" How about the fact that I physically broke your toe with my bucket of paint? Did I harass you? Of course not. But riot doesn't care that I dropped a bucket of paint on your foot (or let you die in a battle, or didn't take an objective, or even that I intentionally don't help the team, or that I afk farm at 40 minutes, or ...). The reality is there is no line. You cannot know what is and is not "toxic" from any written definition, and Riot will not overturn bans even if you point this out. The speech police agents at Riot have a policy not to overturn unless clearly erroneous. That means questionable bans can be made, but not unmade.

I would suggest the community express to Riot the ever-growing concern for mistreatment of players getting banned but who are under the good faith understanding that they are fully-abiding by the terms and conditions of the digital content they license and use from Riot.

Nightsky Pirate1 votes

Aww, I don't fall under either of your categories...

Is this even open for discussion? Are you even looking for an actual response? Best as I can tell, you just want to be heard that you don't like the punishment system and are really dissatisfied with the people responsible for it.

Incidentally, I feel that way too, because people are resorting to /mute all. This isn't good and I was happier with the mutable flames. Its a shame they're letting people be sacrificed as a show to try to reduce toxicity.

Now to everyone else reading, here's a prime example of someone who has a bad mouth that could be a good player. For all your collective brainpower and effort you're putting into these forums, can't you think of a way to coexist in the game with him instead of glorifying his punishment?

He's obviously not in need of being told his mouth is dirty and the current rules... blah blah blah, you know. Here's an idea;

Let banned players play with other players with bad behavior. You know, like AFKers and leavers. Then they have no right to complain about bad behavior until they prove otherwise and EVERYBODY WINS.

CharDeeMcDenniz2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nightsky Pirate,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=17lsvzxk,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-12-05T00:50:17.611+0000)

Let banned players play with other players with bad behavior. You know, like AFKers and leavers. Then they have no right to complain about bad behavior until they prove otherwise and EVERYBODY WINS.

why would RIOT create another avenue for people who have REPEATEDLY SHOWN THEY ARE UNWILLING/UNABLE TO FOLLOW SIMPLE RULES OF HUMAN DECENCY to play? It makes no sense...they dont want to make a playground for toxic players, they straight up do not want them in their game.

nevermind the fact they have stated publicly, multiple times, that they are against any kind of prisoners island. and for good reason IMO

Nightsky Pirate3 votes

Human decency? Wow. Who killed your puppy? ? League players aren't that bad.

Like, oh no, someone yelled at me with real time typing, better sheild my feelings from the awful sub human behavior...

Really. You're also clinging to "prisoners island". This is a game. You can't play it outside riot's servers. It really would not hurt or be difficult to make accommodations for people with a different style of sportsmanship. Please get off the sensitivity horse.

Ah, the point is that these guys can perhaps see what caliber their behavior is when told they're being categorized together. Straight up banning them isn't the best way.

Raflica1 votes

Riot has every right to regulate its platform how it wants. The problem is Riot bans people who have no way of knowing from the Code of Conduct what is actually not allowed.

There is nothing clear about the word "harassment." Blatant death threats is one thing, but "offending" someone is completely subjective.

Khodo1 votes

{quoted}

Riot has every right to regulate its platform how it wants. The problem is Riot bans people who have no way of knowing from the Code of Conduct what is actually not allowed.

There is nothing clear about the word "harassment." Blatant death threats is one thing, but "offending" someone is completely subjective.

TBH I never thought this post would go somewhere and I really appreciate your multiple comments on it, gave me some better insight and overall made my points way clearer. :) ty man

Khodo1 votes

I just want to mention after making this post I received a permaban. It wasn't very serious in terms of that actual content of my toxicity but repeated bans is worthy of a perma even if its for small toxicity. twas a fun time playing this game but looks my time here is done.

JK I made a new account and already dropped 20$. I think its an addiction.

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