Boards›Player Behavior

Is there a way that we can bring the tribunal back?

Markingtons··14 votes·1,105 views

Hi Riot/Whomever reads this,

I would like to make a case for bringing the tribunal back. This used to be a wonderful way of having the league community keep the players in check. When I first started playing back in 2011 the other players were nice and helpful. I started teaching my girlfriend how to play the game and the players are completely different from when I started. There are a ton of people being abusive to each other and just a blame fest. After we just went through a game with a particularly abusive player and reports were written I went to check the Tribunal (since I used to go on to help keep the community healthy) only to find that this was no longer an active part of league, that it had been switched over to an automatic type of system. And from what I've seen clearly this system is not working, due to the change in the type of community from when I started to now. So please Riot, I don't know why you decided to take down the tribunal but please seriously consider bringing back this wonderful service so that the community can turn back into what I had when I started this game.

To anyone who reads this please upvote so maybe at some point someone from Riot will actually read this and realize that the average player wants to make a difference and change the direction that the playerbase seems to be heading.

Thanks for your time and have a good one! Markingtons

30 Comments

EvilDustMan6 votes

The new system is faster and more accurate than the tribunal.

Markingtons1 votes

I would tend to agree, but it doesn't seem to be accurate. I don't know how long you've been playing but there seems to be a massive change in the types of players in the normal games, something I hadn't really been playing until recently. There's always going be some of those people who rage about people not playing well but it seems to be happening a lot more frequently than it did before. So I don't know how the new system works but it doesn't seem to be catching those people or if it is, its not stopping the behavior

Kei1431 votes

it's pretty accurate for chat related offenses & the easy gameplay griefing cases. The more complicated cases require manual review, which takes just as much time as the tribunal did.

Markingtons1 votes

but then why is there still so much chat related offenses, I'm not talking about complex cases, I'm talking about people verbally abusing and using racial slurs and hate speech to talk to the other team or their own teammates, it doesn't seem to catch this or the punishment doesn't work because its not stopping the behavior

Kei1431 votes

then why is there still so much chat related offenses

it jsut does a horrible job in letting people know that there is a punishment.

Innocent people look at it as if the toxics are getting away with it.

Toxics are thinking they can get away with it because they don't see enforcement.

There are so many chat related offenses cos there are millions of people playing this game and they are all sitting at different levels of threshhold punishment.

It is a problem that Riot is aware of (called "lack of behavioral system's visibility), but needed to finish the new client first before they can implement new features. With it done now, hopefully they can get to this problem space soon with something like this.

scazzman1 votes

{quoted}

it jsut does a horrible job in letting people know that there is a punishment.

Innocent people look at it as if the toxics are getting away with it.

Toxics are thinking they can get away with it because they don't see enforcement.

There are so many chat related offenses cos there are millions of people playing this game and they are all sitting at different levels of threshhold punishment.

It is a problem that Riot is aware of (called "lack of behavioral system's visibility), but needed to finish the new client first before they can implement new features. With it done now, hopefully they can get to this problem space soon with something like this.

not to mention the MASSIVE grey area between "innocent" and "toxic".and trolls have figured out how to bait other players into getting reported.

Carcus801 votes

You've just made that link up between the new client and the PB systems right? There's absolutely nothing to say they are connected or related..

Kei1431 votes

there are 2 core parts of league of legends: The game and the client. If it isn't related to the game then it is related to the client.

PB systems are not game related, thus it is related to the client. While the algorithms and codes of the PB system can exists without the client, something needs to display the reform cards (when you log into the client), log the reports (post game screen), notify you (notification system in the client).

So if you don't think the client is linked to the PB systems, then you really don't understand anything about programming and systems.

Carcus801 votes

Hahaha, I'm a programmer.

Nice, Logic there on the its A or B, not B hence A. You could pass grade 9 with that.

No, nothing needs to display the cards, Email is fine.

Logging the reports existed in both clients.

Notification? Email.

So yeah, its not linked.

Carcus801 votes

Really? Your just inventing timelines as well?

How is riot support doing manual reviews faster?

Kei1431 votes

{quoted}

The more complicated cases require manual review, which takes ** just as much time** as the tribunal did.

Scary Door2 votes

Faster? Sure.

More accurate? Debatable.

Sure, the automated system catches the real obvious offenders, but it's very easy to bypass the system while still being extremely toxic. You just have to do so in passive-aggressive ways or by means that are far less obvious. I've seen this occur time and again and those players are never punished.

The Tribunal set the standard for what was acceptable; so if a player gets reported for saying "good job" after one of their own teammates gives up first blood, humans can see that and could punish it appropriately----on the other hand, the automated system thinks "good job" is a compliment and may actually elevate the individual's account status. "But", you say, "The system could be programmed to look for a perceived compliment immediately following a death by a teammate and learn to flag it", and I would argue that there may be an occasion where saying "good job" after your teammate gives up first blood is still appropriate and not sarcastic. But these are all based upon context. The automated system doesn't understand context.

In any event, it seems moot because Riot has decided that automated systems are the best way to run their behavioral system as well as their customer support. I suppose the decline in the number of players over the last couple of seasons doesn't seem to phase them, oh well.

Carcus801 votes

Yes, and thats a real shame, because the core game is amazing and compelling.

If only they would put some effort into PB (which lots of people want improved) instead of a buggy new client which nobody was asking for.

MisterSki3 votes

The Tribunal should be set up like CS:GO's overwatch in my opinion where you can see the chat and watch a vid of the game in question. This would lead to a more accurate and understandable moderation of the player base by the player base.

Markingtons1 votes

Absolutely agree with this statement, you could see the chat log but adding the ability to watch what was actually happening in the game would be a huge improvement to what the old Tribunal system could do.

MisterSki1 votes

It would also make the players feel more involved in the whole process. This would lead to less anger about the system because of the peer moderation not program moderation.

Markingtons2 votes

It felt nice to know there was something you could do about it, rather than just hope that the program catches this instance. It was a really nice feature and a really nice community booster.

MisterSki1 votes

People might disagree with me when I say this but the community was better back then. I have been playing since season 1 and I am not sure if it is just the moderation program or people being upset about it that caused this community to flounder or maybe it's a mixture of the two. I hope they come up with something different before people leave just out of pure frustration.

Markingtons1 votes

I absolutely agree with all of what you've said, I just don't know how to get that concept to Riot in order to actually have change happen. The community was so much better before, now it seems that people feel like they can just do whatever they want. It's very upsetting to see how far the community has fallen.

MUSHROOM MIDGET3 votes

i want it back just for the lol's from reading chat logs

Jebron3 votes

Then we get people who get their feelings hurt from any little statement flocking to the tribunal to get anyone who says "you're bad" banned.

It was a shit system and the automated system for the most part does a better job.

Deep Terror Nami2 votes

The good thing about the Tribunal was its player facing visibility, not it's accuracy and definitely not its speed. Riot has expressed some interest in improving system visibility in limited ways (such that players get more feedback but cannot use it to abuse the system), but as of right now the Tribunal is not going to be developed.

Markingtons1 votes

Exactly, the good thing about the Tribunal was that it made it feel like you'd face a panel of your peers with being reported, rather than having a scantron being fed into a machine. So why wouldn't Riot want the players to feel like they need to be accountable to the rest of the community for their actions?

Bob the Toastr1 votes

Why not use the automated system to detect language violations and use some sort of Tribunal type system to detect trolling and inting? Seems like it would be pretty hard for the automated system to detect trolling if the player did it right, where people watching the game could see the trolling.

Deep Terror Nami3 votes

I'd like a combination of a Tribunal to accentuate the IFS for fringe cases, but unfortunately I don't have a say in it. We can only hope that they have some exciting plans for the behavior systems soon since they are nearly complete with replacing the legacy client (which has been their top priority for a while, preventing work on some other systems).

Carcus801 votes

Do you have any source for this?

The last I heard is they started, decided it needed a complete re-write, 6 months ago moved the Dev's onto the new client.

Nothing about it not being released.

Also comments about its speed arn't relevant, its infinely better to have something punishing trolls rather than the current nothing.

Deep Terror Nami1 votes

It was publicly announced some time back. I didn't save the reference but I'm asking around among the Arbiters if someone can find it (it was a post on these boards) and I'll get that to you when they can find it.

In short, it said that the Tribunal was no longer being developed and wouldn't be in the foreseeable future, though they aren't done with developing the behavior systems (Honor was supposedly being actively worked on).

Carcus801 votes

Wow.

Just Wow.

This is fucked.

I dont think putting this in the middle of a 2 hour dev twitch stream counts as "Publicly announced" I hadn't heard and neither had anyone I play with.

Big thanks for finding that link btw.

Deep Terror Nami1 votes

I found what I was looking for. Ghostcrawler mentioned it in a Q&A livestream; https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/EqojEYAN-tribunal-not-returning-for-foreseeable-future

Kei1431 votes

A year ago, Rioters mentioned that the new honor system may be intergrated with Tribunal 2.0.

Who knows if that is still true, their directions may have changed.

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