Riot sucks at discipline.

dalethebeast··2 votes·1,039 views

Dear riot: no matter how toxic a player is, permanently banning an account that has purchased RP is still not fair. This is the same as taking someone's possessions away forever because they called someone a "scrub". Skins and things purchasable with RP are the same as tangible possessions that one is ENTIRLED TO because they traded their money for them. This is the way the world works, no? Well apparently not league of legends. In life, being toxic and saying mean things is not even a punishable criminal offense, whereas to riot is an offense that calls for possible permanent ban of one's account, and for situations and caused by reasons that riot can't even pretend to understand. But then players who troll, feed intentionally and then won't forfeit after making the game hell for everyone else, things that are massively worse than being toxic because every player has access to a mute button (the easy, fast, and only necessary solution to toxic players), go unpunished or barely punished at all. Players aren't given an in game solution to actual problems such as these, and if one gets fed up and leaves they will get punished by a system riot set up to protect innocent players by punishing leavers. Players who make the game hell in these ways, actually take up as much as an hour of one's time and cause people to lose purposely are the only group that should be even considered for permanent ban, much more so than players who are toxic but can be silenced by other players pressing one button. The difference in the level of severity of actions taken by these two types of players is most apparent when questioning "what are they actually doing?", which in one case is simply typing a message, and the other is playing the game in a manner that causes their teammates to suffer. The best solutions, and the ones that actually make sense, are to stop each offender from doing what they actually are doing wrong; for toxic players, that would mean permanent chat restriction, or conditional chat restriction until rehabilitation of the toxic player is apparently complete which still allows access to features of the game the players spent REAL MONEY to get, and for trolly players who get off on the suffering of others, this would mean account ban. In this way riot's ideals about discipline are extremely flawed and disrespect a player's right to their property, which anything purchased with RP should be considered due to the loss of real money that is present in order to obtain RP in the first place. Aside from just wanting my skins back and my account back, I am also a player who wants to see reform of this system and to continue playing the game with a less toxic state of mind, and the current system DID NOT help me do that. The system already disrespects players by not focusing on rehabilitation, but just punishing players in a manner that only creates more frustration and toxicity rather than creating potential for a player to improve their attitude. So to conclude, I would just like to say that the system that riot currently in place is hardly even dealing with the issues the community presents and is a lackluster scapegoat of a disciplinary code that only fosters more hate and frustration within the community. Rito, I have only one thing left to say to you. Pls.

28 Comments

Daen5 votes

permanently banning an account that has purchased RP is still not fair. This is the same as taking someone's possessions away forever because they called someone a "scrub". Skins and things purchasable with RP are the same as tangible possessions that one is ENTIRLED TO because they traded their money for them. This is the way the world works, no?

Basically, your thought here is that if a player has purchased Riot Points they should become immune to permanent suspension because they now own that content. Let's take a look at the End User License Agreement you accepted when you started playing, shall we?

"All rights and title in and to the Software and the Game, and all content included therein (including, without limitation, Accounts, computer code, titles, objects, artifacts, characters, character names, locations, location names, stories, story lines, dialog, catch phrases, artwork, graphics, structural or landscape designs, animations, sounds, musical compositions and recordings, Riot Points, audio-visual works, character likenesses, and methods of operation) are owned by Riot Games or its licensors. The Software and the Game and all content therein are protected by United States and other international intellectual property laws. Riot Games and its licensors reserve all rights in connection with the Software and the Game, including, without limitation, the exclusive right to create derivative works therefrom, and you agree that you will not create any work of authorship based on the Game except as expressly permitted by Riot Games. You acknowledge and agree that you have no interest, monetary or otherwise, in any feature or content contained in the Game. You further acknowledge and agree that you shall have no ownership or other property interest in your Account, and you acknowledge and agree that all rights in and to the Account are and shall forever be owned by and inure to the benefit of Riot Games."

In other words, Riot owns your account and all purchases you make towards it. They can terminate it at any time for any reason or no reason at all, and this is specifically laid out in the ToU as well.

In life, being toxic and saying mean things is not even a punishable criminal offense, whereas to riot is an offense that calls for possible permanent ban of one's account, and for situations and caused by reasons that riot can't even pretend to understand

This is incorrect. Please refer to the following:

  1. Disorderly Conduct
  2. Disturbing the Peace
  3. Curse & Abuse

These can all be handed down for language alone, and since they are misdemeanors they are indeed punishable criminal offenses.

redniwediS4 votes

I don't think you really grasp the concept of "fair"...

dalethebeast1 votes

How so?

redniwediS2 votes

Fair just means everyone is being held to the same standard or rules. Riot's current system is not even remotely close to perfect, but it is most certainly fair.

Elisai4 votes

I kinda think its funny you have this really big paragraph and you think it sucks and have a poll about it and all of the poles votes are "No." Lol. And all you got were downvotes. Sorry bud. I know you put in an effort but not everyone is gonna side with you on this one.

TeemoJenkins4 votes

Read the first five lines. Read your Terms of Service - League of Legends and it's contents are all the intellectual property of Riot Games; you paying to have skins, allows you to lease their IP essentially. You play in their sandbox at their pleasure; you pee in the sand, they are going to kick you out.

Colgate Gator4 votes

This is where you must remember that Riot isn't your stepdad who cares about you becoming a responsible adult.

Either you play by the rules they estabilish or pack your things, nobody has an obligation to put up with people's lack of education, no matter how much money they have spent.

Stop being so conceited.

dalethebeast1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Postal Badger,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=yUUR8xcA,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2015-10-05T21:08:45.193+0000)

This is where you must remember that Riot isn't your stepdad who cares about you becoming a responsible adult.

Either you play by the rules they estabilish or pack your things, nobody has an obligation to put up with people's lack of education, no matter how much money they have spent.

Stop being so conceited.

I'd like you to explain how utilizing one's first amendment rights qualifies as a "lack of education", and how i am being conceited.

Daen3 votes

...k your response is better than mine. I submit!

bows

redniwediS3 votes

All credit to the all mighty XKCD!

Daen2 votes

HAIL

bows deeper

HAIL XKCD

Daen6 votes

I'd like you to explain how utilizing one's first amendment rights qualifies as a "lack of education", and how i am being conceited.

Here is the wording of the first amendment:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

From this wording, your first amendment rights extend only to the government, not private business. The Boards, the League of Legends client, etc. are privately owned by Riot Games and they have no obligation whatsoever to allow you free speech.

Riot specifically laid out rules they expect the community to follow, and explicitly outlined the fact they can choose to silence you for any reason (breaking their rules) or no reason at all. The first amendment does not apply.

dalethebeast1 votes

{quoted}

Here is the wording of the first amendment:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

From this wording, your first amendment rights extend only to the government, not private business. The Boards, the League of Legends client, etc. are privately owned by Riot Games and they have no obligation whatsoever to allow you free speech.

Riot specifically laid out rules they expect the community to follow, and explicitly outlined the fact they can choose to silence you for any reason (breaking their rules) or no reason at all. The first amendment does not apply.

You have answered neither of my actual questions and merely took the opportunity to be a passive-aggressive douche. I'm not surprised. Please escort yourself off of this board.

Daen4 votes

passive-aggressive douche. Please escort yourself off of this board.

Mmk, let's take a more direct approach.

I'd like you to explain how utilizing one's first amendment rights qualifies as a "lack of education"

I assume it qualifies as a lack of education because you are coming from a perspective that is factually false. Riot's EULA/ToU specifically state that your account belongs to Riot, so arguing that Riot is treating people unfairly with permanent bans demonstrates that you haven't taken the time to become familiar with the basic laws surrounding digital purchase.

You have also demonstrated a lack of knowledge of how the Constitution works by bringing up your first amendment right to free speech. This is a privately owned discussion platform, and other people saying they dislike your comments is not in any way imposing on your constitutional rights.

and how i am being conceited.

Personally, I don't think you're being conceited and disagree with Postal Badger on that front.

dalethebeast1 votes

{quoted}

Mmk, let's take a more direct approach.

I assume it qualifies as a lack of education because you are coming from a perspective that is factually false. Riot's EULA/ToU specifically state that your account belongs to Riot, so arguing that Riot is treating people unfairly with permanent bans demonstrates that you haven't taken the time to become familiar with the basic laws surrounding digital purchase.

You have also demonstrated a lack of knowledge of how the Constitution works by bringing up your first amendment right to free speech. This is a privately owned discussion platform, and other people saying they dislike your comments is not in any way imposing on your constitutional rights.

Personally, I don't think you're being conceited and disagree with Postal Badger on that front.

The phrase "lack of education" contains the word "education", which inherently implies the presence of a formal curriculum approved by a board of educators. Unless you can seriously tell me that you think Riot's EULA/ToU is contained in the curriculum and taught at an educational center which I attended, then you are in fact incorrect and my not ignorance of the details of Riot's EULA/ToU can be attributed not to a "lack of education, but more accurately to not giving a shit enough to read the EULA word for word like the almighty Daen. Now I say again, please escort yourself off of this board.

SmokedAlmonds2 votes

{quoted}

The phrase "lack of education" contains the word "education", which inherently implies the presence of a formal curriculum approved by a board of educators. Unless you can seriously tell me that you think Riot's EULA/ToU is contained in the curriculum and taught at an educational center which I attended, then you are in fact incorrect and my not ignorance of the details of Riot's EULA/ToU can be attributed not to a "lack of education, but more accurately to not giving a shit enough to read the EULA word for word like the almighty Daen. Now I say again, please escort yourself off of this board.

He is referring to your misunderstanding of the first amendment, not leagues licence agreement.

The first amendment prevents the government from censoring you(in certain cases). It has nothing to do with what a private company is allowed to censor on their own property.

redniwediS2 votes

not giving a shit enough to read the EULA word for word

Well that's your own fault. If you didn't read it you have no right to be mad about what's in it. You signed it, end of story.

Daen2 votes

Education is defined as the process of facilitating learning, it doesn't have to be in the presence of a formal curriculum. Regardless, if you're just going to be pedantic for argument's sake there's not much more we have to discuss.

Bottom line: Riot's game, Riot's rules. These rules are clearly laid out in documents you agreed to when you started playing (and every patch since), so the argument in your OP that Riot sucks at discipline because they unfairly violated your ownership rights is both factually and legally false.

dalethebeast1 votes

{quoted}

If you're just going to be pedantic for argument's sake there's not much more we have to discuss.

Bottom line: Riot's game, Riot's rules. These rules are clearly laid out in documents you agreed to when you started playing (and every patch since), so the argument in your OP that Riot sucks at discipline because they unfairly violated your ownership rights is both factually and legally false.

In my last two responses to you, I have included a polite request for you to leave this discussion board, which frankly has a clear implication of my desire for you to not respond any further and i would appreciate if you acknowledge and respect this.

Jubbinaut3 votes

At the risk of being pedantic:

The word education does not necessarily indicate a formal curriculum, nor a board of educators. The full definition, according to Merriam-Webster, is:

  • 1a: the action or process of educating or of being educated; also : a stage of such a process
  • 1b: the knowledge and development resulting from an educational process <a person of little education>
  • 2: the field of study that deals mainly with methods of teaching and learning in schools

A formal curriculum approved by a board of educators certainly fits that definition, but it's not the only thing that does.

Whether that's particularly relevant to your point, I don't know - nor do I much care, as I've no interest in the debate at hand.

Blue Socialist3 votes

Nice try downvoting everyone that said anything proving you wrong. I'm guessing you were the 1 vote for yes.

DXHaseoXD3 votes

What company isn't like that?

stone the blacks1 votes

I don't like RITO's discipline system but when you join they game you agreed to their rules of their international game. Even then a perma ban seems harsh since they can't ever play cause they had a bad day, I'd prefer if they did something like disabled from playing ranked so you can still joke around with friends in norms and possibly get a better attitude towards the game

stone the blacks1 votes

Or give an even worse punishment, forced to listen to teemo laugh whenever platying

Daen1 votes

...I don't think even Riot would be that needlessly cruel.

Daen1 votes

Even then a perma ban seems harsh since they can't ever play cause they had a bad day

Unless a player is unbelievably toxic (read: constant racial slurs, death threats, DDoSing, etc.), being permanently suspended from one day of bad activity is very unlikely. In most cases players get numerous warnings and scaled punishments up to the perma; the current system is something like this:

  • Warning
  • If behavior continues, 10 game chat restriction
  • If behavior continues, 25 game chat restriction
  • If behavior continues, two week suspension
  • If behavior continues, permanent suspension

Getting a permanent ban is definitely not a quick choice from Riot, a player has to demonstrate either extreme toxicity or a consistent lack of reform.

dalethebeast1 votes

Agreed. Thanks for the positive input.

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