My friend just started playing league of legends

Wrajitoru·Apr 15, 2015·90 votes·5,459 views

He: how much time it takes to get all champions,runes and rune pages? Me: If i tell you...you will go back to dota

114 Comments

KazaashiApr 15, 201525 votes

This argument is like complaining about having to get to max level in WoW to start raiding.

Literally everything you need to play this game effectively and competently are free, but people wanna complain because they have to work to get something.

SirsirApr 15, 201546 votes

Not really. You can't jungle without runes anymore, in lanes you will be at a numerical disadvantage soon after you hit 30.

You have to WORK to get champions. You shouldn't have to WORK for a month to get a single rune page.

KazaashiApr 15, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Not really. You can't jungle without runes anymore, in lanes you will be at a numerical disadvantage soon after you hit 30.

You have to WORK to get champions. You shouldn't have to WORK for a month to get a single rune page.

I save a little cash to get rune pages when they go on sale ($0.50 a week). I have 7 now due to that. I would never spend IP on rune pages. That is too expensive.

You only need AS, Armor pen, and Magic pen Marks, Armor Seals, Scaling MR Glyphs, and MS quints for 90% of the champs in the game. Just because it will take a LONG time to get everything, doesn't mean that you will need 80% of what is available.

I started at the end of season 2 and had all the runes and pages I needed by the end of season 3.

SolaxoApr 15, 201518 votes

{quoted} I started at the end of season 2 and had all the runes and pages I needed by the end of season 3.

And in Dota2 You can start playing on equal terms from the very beginning.

This argument is like complaining about having to get to max level in WoW to start raiding.

What a stupid comparision... in all MMOs you have to get to max level to start raiding, so your sentence doesn't make sense. In LoL you have to spend years to get all runes and champs. In Dota2 you don't have this bullshit, you have everything instantly. Absolutely ridiculous. It's a big "F*ck you" from Riot to new players. I simply can't get any friends into playing thsi game because of this BS

KazaashiApr 15, 20157 votes

{quoted}

And in Dota2 You can start playing on equal terms from the very beginning.

DOTA 2 was started by a well established company. They can afford to do that. LoL is ALL Riot has, they have to monetize to continue production. Not the same situation.

What a stupid comparision... in all MMOs you have to get to max level to start raiding, so your sentence doesn't make sense. In LoL you have to spend years to get all runes and champs. In Dota2 you don't have this bullshit, you have everything instantly

Right, just like complaining that you get free stuff in other games, but not this one is stupid. That was my point.

Also, you don't need all Runes and Champs to play the game. Just a minor fraction of them.

SLangedEdgeApr 15, 20153 votes

{quoted}

DOTA 2 was started by a well established company. They can afford to do that. LoL is ALL Riot has, they have to monetize to continue production. Not the same situation.

Right, just like complaining that you get free stuff in other games, but not this one is stupid. That was my point.

Also, you don't need all Runes and Champs to play the game. Just a minor fraction of them.

Dota is owned by Valve, privately held company worth about 3billion i think. Blizzard is worth 16billion, EA 17billion, Riot is owned by tencent i think valued at like 150billion+.

While Riot doesn't have full access to all of Tencent's cash, they were the 2nd highest grossing f2p game at like 650million. Don't worry about Riot's financial standing they're killing it and can afford to do away with charging for game balance content while still making a killing on advertising and skins.

Not having runes or certain FOTM champs could make you feel like your at a disadvantage vs your other counter parts. This is a competitive game, why have grinding/rpg aspects. The whole point of the moba i feel was to condense WoW pvp aspects and marry it to RTS resource and strategy.

Angry MonsterApr 15, 20152 votes

and how do you think they earned that money?

JamnonApr 15, 20154 votes

How do you think DOTA earned money? (hint: not by selling rune pages)

Angry MonsterApr 16, 20154 votes

Yeah they sell Keys for purely random stuff. So much better

JamnonApr 16, 20152 votes

You admit then that DOTA was able to make considerable money despite not selling runes. No reason then that Riot couldn't make a similar system.

Angry MonsterApr 16, 20152 votes

You are not proving that the dota system is better. I would argue that random system is worse.

JamnonApr 17, 20151 votes

Then prove it.

Angry MonsterApr 17, 20152 votes

Random means may not getting what u want / need. So random is not as good as personal selection. Where u pick what u want/ need.

There is your proof

AnidanApr 16, 20153 votes

Yes, it is better. Because those keys gave you random elements for cosmetic features, while all the actual gameplay elements are unlocked from the get-go, which means that starting from game installation you already have all the same tools at your disposal as anyone else.

Oh... and the keys were removed sometime around August last year. They don't sell keys on DotA anymore.

Angry MonsterApr 16, 20152 votes

Different systems. League never promised you everything. Pretty sure league has stated that you need to work on unlocking everything.

Just cause different does not mean better.

JamnonApr 20, 20151 votes

Doesnt mean worse either. That one company can still make money off not selling runes is still important.

Angry MonsterApr 20, 20151 votes

neither sell runes; You have to unlock them in league. You can only buy IP boosts which helps you earn the free currency. you can use the IP for runes, icons, pages, or champs.

Angry MonsterApr 21, 20151 votes

um please screen shot this RP runes. Cause you clearly have no clue what you are talking about.

RUNES in my client are only IP. RUNE PAGES can cost money.

Silents429Apr 15, 20152 votes

Well assume you just start out. You don't get smite until level 10, with all the IP boosts they give for free at the start, by the time you are able to jungle you have more then enough IP to buy a couple champions and Tier 2 runes (more then enough to jungle)

SimplicateApr 16, 20152 votes

nah you can Jungle pre 30 even without runes. Started with Warwick and Udyr and they do fine without them. I still don't have a completed rune page dedicated to junglers but I still manage.

LamfiraApr 16, 20152 votes

Getting to max level in WoW to start raiding was never difficult. Just tedious grinding 10 more wolves and boars every few minutes.

A competent champion pool in LoL isn't too much either, maybe 20 Champions and you can cover your favored role + backups if someone else took it. If you have to Pokemon every game then maybe it's daunting but that's hardly required.

The rune grind is sort of a bitch though. You can't skip it by spending $$$ and it's tough to trade in a lane without having them. The new jungle is really rough without runes, as well.

XyrneApr 16, 20153 votes

The notion that video games should be work is retarded. One shouldn't have to "work" just to be on an even playing field; it should be even from the start.

BakugoBestBoyApr 15, 201513 votes

Even if you aren't new to MOBA's the learning curve of LoL is high enough that the level 1-30 grind is appropriately long. During that time, unless you buy EXP boosts you easily get enough IP for a small champion pool and 2 rune pages. That's fine to me. Stupid deadlock video and now everyone has to parrot all the bullshit opinions they had that don't even make a f@ck.

SLangedEdgeApr 15, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Roronoa Zor0,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=vuGEXdeb,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2015-04-15T17:50:02.881+0000)

Even if you aren't new to MOBA's the learning curve of LoL is high enough that the level 1-30 grind is appropriately long. During that time, unless you buy EXP boosts you easily get enough IP for a small champion pool and 2 rune pages. That's fine to me. Stupid deadlock video and now everyone has to parrot all the bullshit opinions they had that don't even make a f@ck.

The learning curve of LoL is laughable compared to dota. It's a pain to struggle to lvl 12 then to 30. You depend on free week champs or buy a select few u can immediately afford. You aren't supposed to buy any of the lower runes. So if you queue with lvl30s u may go into lane vs someone with full rune pages and some FOTM champ...while u are naked playing any old champ. Then after that guy owns u in lane, you wanna try him to see his str weakness for urself, well you can't.

BakugoBestBoyApr 15, 20153 votes

The learning "curve" might be laughable yes I agree. But the fact that you don't see how much of a "swing" it has makes me think you don't know jack about a high level of play in LoL. LoL has a VERY low "skill floor" but a very HIGH "skill ceiling". Learning a new champ can take 50+ games and if you're level 12 you have no idea WHY you got trashed in lane. It may be because you suck, it may be because it was a bad matchup or it may be because you can't farm or built ZZ'rot portal first item because it spawns cool little bug thingys.

SLangedEdgeApr 15, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Roronoa Zor0,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=vuGEXdeb,comment-id=000800000000,timestamp=2015-04-15T20:01:54.559+0000)

The learning "curve" might be laughable yes I agree. But the fact that you don't see how much of a "swing" it has makes me think you don't know jack about a high level of play in LoL. LoL has a VERY low "skill floor" but a very HIGH "skill ceiling". Learning a new champ can take 50+ games and if you're level 12 you have no idea WHY you got trashed in lane. It may be because you suck, it may be because it was a bad matchup or it may be because you can't farm or built ZZ'rot portal first item because it spawns cool little bug thingys.

what champ took you 50+ games to learn? I mean if you wanna be high elo sure, everything takes work n practice. If youre only talking gold diamond ish, and if you can play the role already u dont need 50+ games to pick up a new champ in that role. I mean 90% of the champs int he same role do the same thing, faceroll your kb ur likely to mehanically win. If your talking map awareness, that's 100s - 1000s of games u just need experience. But learning a singular hero, that's just a joke

BakugoBestBoyApr 16, 20152 votes

Yes of course. I can go into a custom game right now and play a 15 minute game of Azir and I will have learned him. I will even be confident enough to go straight into ranked even though that's a terrible idea. But to actually "learn" them to the point where I know the common/uncommon matchups and I know how and when I'm most useful in a fight is NOT something ANYONE picks up right away.

TenSlashTenApr 15, 20154 votes

learning curve of dota isn't hard at all rofl. If you think archaic mechanics kept me playing dota 1 then you're a sad sad little man.

Turn rate only makes the game feel clunky as shit. If they removed that then the game would be fine I'd gladly play dota 2. hell I alpha tested and beta tested dota 2 when my friend who knows I was a dota (wc3) vet got a key and an extra key from a forum friend.

SLangedEdgeApr 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

learning curve of dota isn't hard at all rofl. If you think archaic mechanics kept me playing dota 1 then you're a sad sad little man.

Turn rate only makes the game feel clunky as shit. If they removed that then the game would be fine I'd gladly play dota 2. hell I alpha tested and beta tested dota 2 when my friend who knows I was a dota (wc3) vet got a key and an extra key from a forum friend.

If you think turn rate is just to make the game clunky then you don't know dota. You ever wonder why LoL doesn't have melee carries, cause they're supremely outclassed by ranged and kiting. You wonder why everyone packs flash and mobility creep is at an all time high? cause LoL doesn't care if ur positioned well. The turn rate mechanic is in place to punish ranged heroes for their inherit advantage (range). Melee heroes without gap closers and insane hp/armor would never get picked cause a ranged unit would just kite indefinitely.

There are units that do a full 180 in 9/100 's of second...the worst of the bunch do a 180 in 23/100 of a sec its really not as clunky as u claim it to be.

TenSlashTenApr 16, 20152 votes

I know exactly why it exists. I never liked it. I never have and never will. It never made sense to me. I played broodwar. going from broodwar(aeon of strife) no turn rate to dota turnrate hurts.

It's just not a mechanic I enjoyed. When league came out and didn't have turnrate I loved it and played it. you're not going to argue with me because everything you said I've been told I still occasionally played dota, but it's just for fun and I don't play to ever try ranked because I'm so rusty and cant even remember builds at all or even what 10% of the chars in the game do because I just play that little and care that little.

drow ranger is like literally all I play when I turn on that game lol.

And yeah ik leagues balance is shit. it's been getting worse and worse for junglers like me who liked playing different things and not just meta. I've played tank/Rylias jungle eve since her release. Played tank/bruiser jungle j4 since his release.

AnidanApr 16, 20151 votes

The learning curve of DotA2 is hilariously high compared to League.

Imagine, for a second, that you aren't a vet... Alright, now play Invoker. Or Naga Siren well. Or Meepo at all. Or Earth Spirit.... Terrorblade, Spectre, Morphling, Wisp, AA, Visage, Techies, Rubick...

And in League for really challenging beginner picks you have a brief few, but not many of them reach challenging levels of even the ones from DotA mentioned prior.

Also, if you remove turn rate then you buff many of the ranged heroes, nerf Riki, buff Bristlebog, made Batrider's Sticky Napalm less useful, and some other chaotic shit happens. Turn Rate has remained for a reason.

TenSlashTenApr 16, 20152 votes

you don't need to scream in my face about learning curve. It's not a selling point. Both games have depth.

Depth is what made me like dota. Depth is what made me like league.

AnidanApr 16, 20151 votes

I like how any contradictory point is now screaming it in someone's face on the internet. I'm not screaming at anyone - I don't care to. I do all my screaming and yelling and bitching in person, thank you very much.

There's reasons for the learning curves. League's learning curve is much more manageable and at a lower slope than DotA's. The depth between the two games is also different, but whether that's good or bad is a personal call and no one can tell you how to feel on that one.

TenSlashTenApr 16, 20153 votes

it was already said to me years ago when I first expressed this opinion to the friend sending me an alpha to dota 2 key.

meaning you're a broken record. A screamer lol.

Learning curve is some bullshit excuse made up by a community that thinks their game is better than another game.(this isn't just a league Vs Dota issue this has existed since the beginning of time with anything rofl) It's existed since the beginning of time. You should also learn what that actually means. Since learning how to play amoba is fucking easy. Obviously you've never played an RTS with a limit cap on control groups so you actually have to utilize 1-0+ all 5 mouse buttons and hotkeys on keyboard for building creation/unit control.

you control 1 char in a moba bro. 1. Sometimes more if they have pets/Multi forms(multi form meaning they split into X amount of chars or have an ult that splits them or passive etc... not many characters do this in most moba's but some do, actually makes micro exist for a small part of the game I suppose still hardly any micro required to control them seeings how thats barely 4 control groups and still only 1 unit per group and maybe a 5th control group to control all at one time)... The genre has a shitty learning curve. Whoever told you otherwise was a obviously not an RTS player whatsoever.

Silents429Apr 15, 201510 votes

What is wrong with having to work towards anything? I call bullshit he actively played a fraction of the champions in Dota 2 why would he care if he can afford all the champions? We get like 12 free champions to use each week, and I am 100% certain he isn't going to click with all of them.

You don't need every champion and you shouldn't get full rune pages quickly either, this game requires some grinding but the amount of it is so blown out of proportion that it has been distorting peoples view on the game.

It didn't take me anymore then half a season to accumulate 4 rune pages a ton of runes and a handful of champions, not that much grinding and given I didn't play heavily it wasn't a struggle because I didn't expect to be handed a bunch after each game.

SqueekemsApr 16, 201510 votes

Them: How long does it take to get all the champions, runes, and rune pages? Me: I will let you know when I am done.

AbiwonKenabiApr 15, 20155 votes

There's really no reason to own all the Champions right away. Yeah, it's a nice goal to work towards, but why bother? If you don't play them or WANT to play them, there's no real reason to own all Champions, other than for trade purposes, which even then isn't really relevant until you start playing ranked.

Similar thing with Rune pages. Buy the runes you need, save for new ones when you actually need new runes. Early on, there's no reason to buy runes anyways, and they don't start becoming relevant until you get close to level 30.

I've been playing this game for years and I still don't own everything. Why would I want Draven if I'm never gonna take the time to learn to play him? I'll get him eventually sure, but probably after I buy all the Champions I actually want.

Heckin SupportApr 15, 20155 votes

My friend:What do you mean I have to spend my money on things other than dorans rings? My friend:Why shouldn't I buy more than 1 boot? My friend:Wait so Ashe's e DOESNT deal damage?

Needless to say my friend does not play league of legends anymore

Penta PenguinApr 15, 20152 votes

Why on earth should Ashe's E deal damage?

rampaging poetApr 16, 20156 votes

You have no idea how many Ashes I've told to stop shooting E at people. Or Jinxes that fire their ult at full-health tanks because they didn't actually read the ability.

A Miss FortuneApr 15, 20152 votes

I'm okay with the champion prices, but the rune prices are absolutely ridiculous. I refuse to complete a rune page simply because I know I can carry just as well without them going 20/0 as MF main, and spend my IP on champions.

insaiyanbaccaApr 20, 20151 votes

of course there is a point where you can no longer buy champs with ip as you will own all of them :P

dalphy08Apr 21, 20151 votes

{quoted}

of course there is a point where you can no longer buy champs with ip as you will own all of them :P

Corrected to:

{quoted}

of course there is a point where you can no longer buy champs with ip**; when you own all of them :P**

Noted.

insaiyanbaccaApr 21, 20151 votes

ty for the correction my grammar/word choice is absolutely terrible sometimes

dalphy08Apr 21, 20151 votes

{quoted}

ty for the correction my grammar/word choice is absolutely terrible sometimes

Or like "there is a point where you can no longer buy champs with ip, and when that point comes that point is such that it would be that you own all of them"

Space BumApr 16, 20152 votes

I have every useful rune plus tons that most people never buy. I have all but 11 champs that I don't really want. I have 16 rune pages, which is plenty enough for me. I have 46k IP that is going nowhere.

I wish I had more things to spend it on. It's kind of a useless resource at this point.

Rinky DinkyApr 16, 20152 votes

I love when people claim it takes 200+ games to get a full rune page, when I got 10 full rune pages within 500 games. (The pages themselves were bought with RP)

TreyenApr 16, 20152 votes

it all really comes back to the fact they have slashed IP gains considerably. they do it a little a time so fewer people notice, but it steadily goes down, while prices remain the same. Rito is pretty greedy these days, case in point: "chroma packs" ie, 10 minute color swaps in photoshop but still gonna charge RP for them.

Stark6000Apr 16, 20152 votes

Just tell him years and don't be real specific to how many years.

SLangedEdgeApr 17, 20152 votes

For anyone defending this system as a positive for new players (cause it's not overwhelming cause Riot "eases" you in), you are delusional and here's why!

Free week champ: You have to pick from 10/100+ champs. You will face off against ppl who have unlocked numerous other champs, that you have not access to. So you can't pick 'em, you can't play 'em to learn their str/weaknesses. When the week finishes, the champ you are working on maybe be gone. You either pick the next champ in the role or you pick a different role. There is nothing to stop you from picking away from the very established meta (so you are essentially playing wrong)
Runes/Masteries: You aren't even supposed to buy tier one runes, considered a waste. You may match up against lvl20+ to 30+ depending if you party queue. You are at a mathematical disadvantage the whole way. The so called flexibility isn't all that flexible, there is a optimal build which rewards ppl with enough grind time and the desire to look it up on the web.
Summoner spells: why not let you start with flash, when you hit 12 at least 8/10 players have flash picked.

How they should have done it...(dota has is right, tho it barely helps cause it does have a steeper learning curve..almost unreasonable).

summoner spells, don't do it put it on items as actives. Then make those items recommended to heroes that excel with it.
Masteries/Runes, don't have 'em. This is too RPG grind like when you can show up to fights with SECRET power. Everyone should the same lvl and known stats when the gong hits.
Limited hero mode. 20 of the least mechanic intensive heroes to choose from. The best part you opponent has to choose from them also (no one is playing against invoker with 15 spells that will just confuse new players). If you see a hero wreck you, you are welcome to pick 'em in the go around and learn their str/weaknesses. If you dont' wanna go slow, you can play regular modes and pick any hero that interests you and play him for as long as you need to (choice). While meta exists, there are many heroes who fill multiple roles and lanes so its less likely that you've picked a hero that can only lane 1 way and face 1 type of opponent.

At the very least LoL shoudl pick 20 or so champs, throw 'em in a noob mode that you can only play till like lvl 20 or something. The 20 champs are free in that mode, but once you go to other modes you still need to purchase 'em. That would be a step in the right direction of new players.