PSA: If you're feeding, don't build straight damage

Top River King··31 votes·3,229 views

And feed more. I can't think of anything off the top of my head that angers me more than someone giving up a couple early kills to someone, then not modifying their game plan one bit. They continue pushing (without wards), fighting their fed and ahead lane opponent, and building straight damage. Then, when they continue to get kills, you hear cries of "OP" or "broken."

Like last match. Our Darius fed Illaoi to the point that he was a lost cause very early on. Then our Rengar kept ganking her, rather than helping our bot lane, or me mid, when we had an ADC with connection issues. At one point, our Brand support went up with him when I was trying to defend a turret by myself versus Swain and Lux. They all ended up dying, which is no surprise considering Illaoi's damage only goes up when there are more people around.

But all I heard was how broken and OP she is. When I pointed out her awful win rate (43.7% ATM), one of my teammates said people that have played her 15-50 times have an 80% win rate with them. I just looked it up, and it's 76.44%... and that's 0.44% of her playerbase. AKA, it doesn't mean a damned thing because the sample size is way too small.

She's too new to really make any value judgments yet. I'll admit her E is a bit too powerful, and that I'm not a fan of her tentacles spawning at your turret (and not being targeted by said turret) if she's bullied you up to it... but overall, she's by no means "broken," at least not in my opinion. People don't know how to play against or as her yet, so all her stats are a bit of a crapshoot right now. And neither the stats for 0.44% of her playerbase, nor a match where you played right into her hand the entire time, is proof of anything.

Except I see this all the time, where people are incapable of adjusting in-match, or of viewing what happens in that match in context. I've had numerous matches where I couldn't even be in sight of my lane opponent without getting killed in seconds because they'd gotten that far ahead, but I managed to find ways to not just let them pile up kills and to at least slow the bleeding. Very few people in this game seem to know how to do that, however, and it drives me mad.

36 Comments

Shonjl8 votes

Whats even better is when you deprive your laner all game, and they go roaming and get fed off other lanes and your team blames you for it.

I have had a game recently as GP against Illaoi top where she couldn't kill me when she was going pure damage since I was passive and just farmed, she ended up going out of lane and getting our jng or mid laner several times even when I warned the best I could and ended up pushing top hard everytime. Only for my team to say I threw the game since they ignored my pings and even I couldn't fight her or hold her back anymore when she came back to lane with 2-3 more kills each time.

TeCoolMage1 votes

That moment when the 0/5 ADC roams without a support or even help from the jungler, gets kills anyway, gets fed and everyone blames bot lane for feeding in laning phase.

I cri everi tim

Kappa

Top River King1 votes

You don't know how many times I've had that happen. I used to play practically nothing but Garen, and I always hated facing Rivens because of what you just described. No matter how well I did against her in lane, no matter how many pings I gave the other lanes when she went missing and was obviously coming their way, and no matter how much vision we had of her, any time she roamed it was "an ally has been slain" nearly every time. Even when I would follow and fight her with them, they'd still find a way to gift wrap her kills.

Left Hook Larry6 votes

Your logic is flawed because every new champ has a shitty win rate when they first get released. No one decent would play a new champ in ranked in the first week or two they're released

Top River King4 votes

"My logic" is that we can't make a judgment on Illaoi seeing as she was just released, and that there's literally nothing yet to point to her being "OP" or "broken," which is what the other members of my team were trying to argue. "My logic" is also that, given her ult spawns a tentacle for each champion hit, and that she heals for each champion hit with a tentacle, a fed Illaoi is put in a favorable position when two people come at her at once. As a result, their method of dealing with her was making her seem far more "OP" and "broken" than she really is.

flibitydoo3 votes

RekSai andEkko both had pretty decently high winrates on release.

the first time I had an Ekko on my team, the Ekko had already played him on the PBE and figured him out.

Josheheh2 votes

depends on the champion/role. If I'm 0-2 as an adc im not going to get to work on tank items, but I'll go for more defensive options like a vamp scepter instead of linear crit build. its when its someone like darius or garen who keeps going i agree tho >.<

Top River King2 votes

Well, of course. But even ADCs have ways to build semi-defensively while still getting the damage they're after. Well, it's pretty much limited to lifesteal, but still. It's something.

In fact, everyone has options that give them both offensive and defensive stats. For example, I was Lulu top vs. Teemo last match. With how much he was hurting, I built item 3001 for both the MR and the enemy MR reduction. After that, he was only a minor nuisance, and my damage output increased enough for me to be able to solo him. What most randoms I see would probably do in that situation is go for something like a item 3089, which is pricey and straight damage.

Spicy Rice2 votes

What elo do they build a deathcap as one of their first items? Generally you see people building some sort of mana regen, like Morellonomicon, or a defensive ap item, like Zhonyas. If not that, the most agressive players go for ludens

Top River King3 votes

I'm not saying I literally have seen people do that exact thing. Was using Deathcap as an example of a straight damage item someone might buy over something like Abyssal. The exact item doesn't matter. My point is, I've played with and against tons of players gold and below who don't seem to understand that damage doesn't help you when the enemy Lulu can halve your health with a single Q (like I did to the Nid in my last match with no defensive items).

Spicy Rice2 votes

ahhhhh

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Elindis4 votes

It's actually reversed, if you are ahead you build defensive items, if you are behind you go offense. That's the reason fed ADCs get GA/Banshees far earlier than when they are not fed.

For example, i play Vel'Koz mid into Brand. If i get 0/2, i build MORE damage, because i can't face him in the open, so my chance is to catch him off-guard. If i do that i want to punish him hard and completely destroy him with single combo if possible. If i built defensive item, i wouldn't have enough damage to burst him down and he could kill me despite me having defensive item. Now, if i get ahead, let's say 3/0, i build big defensive item. If he tries to go toe to toe with me he'll just die because he's behind, and if i make a mistake/get jumped on i have far better chance for surviving and fighting back.

If Zed can easily kill me without even using his R, why would i even bother to get zhonya's? Instead, i can get few good wards, catch him with CC and nuke him down before he has chance to retaliate.

Top River King2 votes

But there's the difference: you apparently know how to modify your play style when behind. As I said in the first paragraph of the OP, I'm talking about the people who start 0/2, rush some expensive damage item, die a couple more times because they keep making stupid mistakes (i.e., pushing too hard, not warding, trying to pick fights, etc.), and continue to feed until things are so out of hand that (at best) it takes our entire team to kill the monster he created.

I'm talking about situations where they can barely be in the same lane as their opponent and yet they do nothing to itemize against it. I've been in situations myself where that's the case, and building at least somewhat defensively is sometimes the only way you can prevent the snowball, which is huge in a meta that's based almost entirely around snowballing at this point.

Top River King1 votes

To put it more succinctly, I love when my lane opponent builds offensively when I'm ahead and fed.

It's why, back when I played almost nothing but Garen, Teemo was by far my favorite lane opponent. Like clockwork, they'd all build AP, while I played safe until I had some levels and MR and could kill their squishy selves before they had a chance to use all that damage.

Dingding1232 votes

adc's don't have the luxury unfortunately; it's either they get fed or feed trying asdfasdf

Generally speaking the rule of thumb right now is: don't feed early. Period.

Top River King2 votes

ADCs do have one option that's sorta defensive, which is lifesteal. But in their case it's more about not doing all the other things I outlined: hard-pushing without wards, constantly looking for fights when behind, etc.

Spicy Rice2 votes

Then you play draven and realize building BT is the best of both worlds <3

TurquoiseYoshi2 votes

I saw an Olaf give 2 early kills to Hecarim. He then started Ravenous Hydra.

Spicy Rice3 votes

The real question is how did he lose to a hecarim in damage?

TurquoiseYoshi1 votes

The Hecarim was a mid-Diamond smurf. He's an irl friend of mine and we were playing to get his smurf to Level 30 (It was 26; all of our opponents were Level 30). He was pretty bound to lose lane, but the fact that he built more that usual damage for Olaf when losing was funny.

Ryzing2Diamond2 votes

How to win every time vs any gold level illaoi.

Step 1: Play Ryze. Step 2: Last hit. Step 3: Kill her tentacles inbetween minion health bars for bonus gold. Step 4: Stay behind your minions. Step 5: Farm til Tear and level 6. Step 6, Final step: Wait until she pulls your soul and go all in on her.

Top River King2 votes

I just experienced what this is like from the other side of the equation. Faced a Nidalee (as Lulu) who spent 75% of the match in cougar form and finished 0/7 with this build: item 1056 item 3165 item 1052 item 1058. My Q alone halved her health right before the match ended. Killed her with just Q, E, Q. I honestly felt bad and only fought her when she came looking for a fight or Vi decided to gank. Finished 4/0/3, and the final tally was 18v1. Unless you count Illaoi's item 2049, nobody had a single defensive item on the other team. Jeez.

BakedLotion2 votes

What do you mean I shouldn't buy item 3041 when I'm 0/15? Are you dumb??!!!!

SrirachaLimes2 votes

That's the best tank item you can buy. By getting Mejai's, you can endure fights more because they die faster.

Damage is the new tank.

warpenguin5552 votes

but if im not building damage, how am i supposed to carry? /s

Omega3602 votes

What is worse is when your laner gets killed because they have teleport and the foe has ignite, and then after they both go back, TRY AND PICK A FIGHT WITH THE ENEMY. OH MY GOD IF YOU ONLY GOT POTIONS ON YOUR BACK AND YOUR LANER GOT 2 LONGSWORDS THEY HAVE THE ADVANTAGE.

Learn the symptoms of feeding and please stop before that fiora you fed to 4/1 ( I got that one kill as jg ) carries her team.

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

EL HAMSTERO2 votes

its true. movement speed is better for feeding

Owntrolf2 votes

PSA if you're feeding stop feeding, oh wait that doesnt do anything

morris12 votes

Welp, if you are so far behind that the enemy already has a item 3036 then there's no point in building purely defensive.

Elindis2 votes

OP you're wrong I main Vel'koz support and i usually go for full damage build. If i built anything other than straight damage when losing/being behind i would lose the game in instant. You can't just say things like this for every champion.

ADepressedLeona1 votes

Last a game I had a Cass complain about how OP Illaoi was when going against her mid

Like.. wut

Billy VoHagen1 votes

I'm not sure what the point of this thread is. You go from one topic to another in a way that's very hard to read.

Top River King3 votes

The point is literally in the title. And I outlined it in the first paragraph. People building straight damage, and doing other things that you should only do when ahead, despite being way behind, only causing them to fall further and further behind.

What followed was an example of this happening in one of my recent matches. I admittedly got a little sidetracked with the Illaoi talk, but don't act like you have no idea what I'm getting at when the title and first paragraph both outline it.

Billy VoHagen1 votes

I know the point was build tank when behind, I agree, but then you went off on a rant about Illaoi. That made it kind of loose focus.

Maximum Morde1 votes

But I need the damage to get the shutdown gold.

Death in 4 Acts1 votes

Some champs need to build damage or they're even more useless, Bruisers no, but some champs. You just have to play like you're behind instead of trying to manmode regardless.

More from [ARCHIVED] Miscellaneous

More by Top River King