Does riot oversee chat restriction and temp bans?

SneakySock·Jul 14, 2015·2 votes·703 views

as title asks, i've been getting a LOT of chat restrictions lately - i've since then made habit to NEVER talk in game. my last 3 games i've played i got a report message at the end of the game, despite never sending a single message into chat, (pretty much any time i play cassiopeia or xerath i get reported for verbal abuse because people think i script)

and now i've gotten a chat restriction even though i don't even use chat, what is up with that?

is it just automated and not even monitored?

27 Comments

I Main SamusJul 14, 20152 votes

It feels like they built it to punish people who say little or are defending themselves. I could say one thing in the only match I play for a week and get chat restrictions, I can defend myself against everyone on both teams verbally abusing me and get chat restrictions, I can say absolutely nothing at all and get chat restrictions. But come the 2nd time I get matched with a person who says everything crude and terrible to me that day and they will get 0 punishment at all. I don't seem to get it at all.

EleshakaiJul 14, 20152 votes

{quoted}

It feels like they built it to punish people who say little or are defending themselves. I could say one thing in the only match I play for a week and get chat restrictions, I can defend myself against everyone on both teams verbally abusing me and get chat restrictions, I can say absolutely nothing at all and get chat restrictions. But come the 2nd time I get matched with a person who says everything crude and terrible to me that day and they will get 0 punishment at all. I don't seem to get it at all.

No. If you only said one thing a week you'd never get chat restrictions UNLESS that one thing was insulting.

But once you HAD chat restrictions, if you only said one thing a week, it'd take a long time to recover from them.

Same thing goes for saying nothing. YOU WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO CONSIDERED NEGATIVE BY THE SYSTEM SAYING NOTHING. Why? The system uses data to determine where to rank you on its 'scale of positivity', for lack of a better word. Saying nothing will leave at completely neutral since there's no data to prove you're positive or negative... the caveat to this is that since the system has no data to show you as positive, if you ever DO have a negative week, there's no buffer for you because you are completely neutral. So you'll get chat restrictions much faster than someone who is actively positive.

Again, think of it like a reputation or karma system. A person who is completely neutral stays at 0. You get chat restrictions at, say, -2. So if you're at 0 and have a bad string of gamers where you get reported a lot and say bad things a lot, the system will take those reports, scan the chatlogs, see you're being negative, and lower you a few points on the scale. Since you're already neutral - at 0 - a few points down brings you to -3 and gets you some chat restrictions.

The contrast is a positive play, they might be at +10. So the system knocks them down a few points, and they're still at +7 and have a huge buffer before they get restrictions.

Obviously this is a dramatic oversimplification, but hopefully it gets the point across.

I Main SamusJul 14, 20152 votes

I've quiet literally said nothing but posotive stuff in a match and recorded it to boot and got reported for being toxic. I literally just said thanks to my top laner who ganked me instead of my jungler and left it at that and my jungler pulled a "I got abused" card which was actually false, and I got a machine response on the matter. Feels like even if one wants to challenge the machine for unfair punishment no human will ever see the argument or much less care for it.

EleshakaiJul 14, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I've quiet literally said nothing but posotive stuff in a match and recorded it to boot and got reported for being toxic. I literally just said thanks to my top laner who ganked me instead of my jungler and left it at that and my jungler pulled a "I got abused" card which was actually false, and I got a machine response on the matter. Feels like even if one wants to challenge the machine for unfair punishment no human will ever see the argument or much less care for it.

Getting REPORTED is not the same as getting punished. The system scans chatlogs, if you get reported for being positive you won't get punished...

Unless your definition of 'positive' is so vastly different from the rest of the world's that the system sees it as negative. Which is possible.

However Riot WILL review bans if you feel you were banned in error, and they will overturn punishments in the rare case that happens. It just happens extremely rarely.

wilsuport4coffeeJul 15, 20151 votes

what you say is not true what so ever, it really doesn't scan the logs. It checks for absolutely nothing other than the amount of reports you receive, and the lower elo you are the more you get reported for absolutely nothing. people will report you because they're mad that they lost the game, people and trolls report you for anything and they're way more common the lower in elo you are.

there have been two published cases by two different people where they tested the system, asked for reports from their friends, and got chat restricted even though they said nothing in game. The tribunal was fair, and took context into the situation. The automated system is just there to punish people for any and everything, because no one checks it at all.

EleshakaiJul 15, 20152 votes

{quoted}

what you say is not true what so ever, it really doesn't scan the logs. It checks for absolutely nothing other than the amount of reports you receive, and the lower elo you are the more you get reported for absolutely nothing. people will report you because they're mad that they lost the game, people and trolls report you for anything and they're way more common the lower in elo you are.

there have been two published cases by two different people where they tested the system, asked for reports from their friends, and got chat restricted even though they said nothing in game. The tribunal was fair, and took context into the situation. The automated system is just there to punish people for any and everything, because no one checks it at all.

This is FACTUALLY WRONG.

I'm not the biggest fan of some of the things the PB team has implemented, but spreading inaccurate lies helps nobody.

I recall at least one of the published cases to be proven wrong by them posting logs of the person's games that got them punished and they weren't the ones the person got reported in.

But I mean, if you believe two random strangers on the internet posting something clearly intended to discredit an established system with no actual accredited proof(only circumstantial evidence that is easily tampered with)... I guess all I can say is that I've got oceanfront property in Arizona to sell you, and if you act fast... I'll throw in the Golden Gate for free.

wilsuport4coffeeJul 15, 20151 votes

It so isn't inaccurate. It literally does't scan the logs. If you send in a support ticket for it, the responses will literally say that you were toxic, but don't provide the chat logs to actually back it up.

And ONE person who deserves the chat restriction doesn't prove that the system isn't checked. I distinctly remember reading the system isn't reviewed by an actual person until it's time to actually be banned, then it's reviewed by an employee.

Sorry to burst your bubble there, champ.

JubbinautJul 15, 20152 votes

That's funny. I distinctly remember reading that the chat-detection system is reviewed by employees, in random spot-checks to ensure accuracy. And if that's not a good enough method for you to trust, you should probably avoid condoms (since they use the same random-sampling method to test them).

Even when a human being isn't reading the chat, it's still reviewed. There's a machine-learning chat-detection algorithm that addresses that.

wilsuport4coffeeJul 15, 20151 votes

If the logs are being scanned for toxicity, then why do even people who aren't talking still get chat restricted? I've seen this complaint quite a bit now, and never any kind of answer for it.

EleshakaiJul 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

If the logs are being scanned for toxicity, then why do even people who aren't talking still get chat restricted? I've seen this complaint quite a bit now, and never any kind of answer for it.

Because they actually did talk.

wilsuport4coffeeJul 15, 20151 votes

How are you so sure?

EleshakaiJul 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

How are you so sure?

Because the only people I ever hear complaining about it ALWAYS act like dicks in their forum post. They show their colours in the language they use and the attitude they take, and I have a hard time believing anyone who acts like THAT would be able to restrain themselves enough to not talk in game.

They can't even restrain themselves in their forum post when they're trying so hard to convince us they were wronged. There was a scene in a show a long time ago - can't even remember which show it was... where a guy was trying to sue someone for crippling him and while he was in the middle of complaining about what had been done to him he got up out of the wheelchair and started pacing around, It's the same kind of thing here, you blow your cover as a 'nice player who is wrongfully punished' when you start insulting and trolling the people in your thread.

JubbinautJul 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

If the logs are being scanned for toxicity, then why do even people who aren't talking still get chat restricted? I've seen this complaint quite a bit now, and never any kind of answer for it.

Show me a single shred of actual evidence that players who don't talk are getting chat restrictions. Anything at all beyond a random poster making blank claims with nothing to back them up.

Otherwise? I'm incapable of answering your question, because as far as I'm able to tell, players who aren't talking at all aren't getting chat restrictions.

wilsuport4coffeeJul 15, 20151 votes

and how are you so sure? like if people claim to actually test it, and EVERYONE hates the automated system, then how do you know everything else that YOU'RE reading is actually true?

You don't. I can play this game too, a lot of people are complaining that the tribunal is taking so long because no one likes the automated system at all.

JubbinautJul 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

and how are you so sure? like if people claim to actually test it, and EVERYONE hates the automated system, then how do you know everything else that YOU'RE reading is actually true?

Generally, the player whose logs are posted recognizes the game. That's a pretty strong indicator.

Even setting aside those situations, I trust it because I have no reason to not trust Riot in that case. It earns them nothing to lie (when such a lie could easily be detected), but risks quite a lot.

Meanwhile, the player has quite a lot to gain from such a lie (player support for his case), and risks nothing.

When caught in a "he said, she said" situation, it pays to be most apprehensive of the person with the most to gain from lying, especially if they have the least to lose as well.

You don't. I can play this game too, a lot of people are complaining that the tribunal is taking so long because no one likes the automated system at all.

I wouldn't say "no one." Personally, I have no real issue with it. I know quite a few people who also have no real problem with it. It's true enough that many people don't like it, and some of them have pretty decent reasons for that, but not everyone.

This isn't a game to me, though. This is a discussion. I can't determine the veracity of your statement, because I've seen nothing but empty claims to support it. I've seen no evidence - not even the pretending of evidence that you seem to be accusing Riot of.

I'm willing to entertain the possibility - I'd be a fool not to - but I'm going to need more than your word that it is a possibility before I do so. Because your claim conflicts with every scrap of remotely verifiable evidence.

wilsuport4coffeeJul 15, 20151 votes

The same also goes for your argument. Riot is pretty well known for never really listening to their players and taking forever to get something accomplished. While there may be people who have no "real problem" with the automated system, I have yet to hear anyone say that they actually like the system and that it's fair.

As I said previously, there are going to be some very true cases where people really did deserve what they got, absolutely, but that doesn't mean that people who honestly believe they didn't deserve aren't correct. There's a pretty fine line between actually being toxic and just saying something that one of your team members don't want to hear, and they still report you afterwards anyways because they're salty.

I really do Not trust riot, because they seem to be kind of shady. Not only do they use things coughchromaskins cough to distract players with something no one was even asking for, but it's like they're blind to real requests and issues. I'd be lying if I said I haven't submitted two support tickets that have gone completely ignored, and now only to not be able to submit a ticket at all because the language setting isn't working.

Or the match history feature. I've been having problems with it for the last 6 days where it won't load my history at all and it just shows a blank box. I google this and it's been a recurring problem amongst players for over a year, and no fix for it? tribunal has been wanted back by majority players, still been down for over a year with no word on it coming back up at all despite many players inquiring about it. There's 0 reason it should be down for THIS LONG, there was no reason for it to have been taken down in the first place. I never heard a complaint about the tribunal- not once.

Or let's take the servers into question. Last year riot grossed 1 billion dollars on a free to play game. Yet extra servers or better ones haven't even been a concern for them at all, but they'll sure release new champions that everyone will spend money on, won't they?

So when asked if I trust riot and think they have the best intentions for their players and don't lie to just comfort people, well.

JubbinautJul 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

The same also goes for your argument. Riot is pretty well known for never really listening to their players and taking forever to get something accomplished. While there may be people who have no "real problem" with the automated system, I have yet to hear anyone say that they actually like the system and that it's fair.

I'm sorry, I apparently wasn't clear with my language. I like the current system. I liked the Tribunal better, but only because I sometimes enjoyed reading through logs, and because the Reform Cards were more thorough than the current ones.

As I said previously, there are going to be some very true cases where people really did deserve what they got, absolutely, but that doesn't mean that people who honestly believe they didn't deserve aren't correct. There's a pretty fine line between actually being toxic and just saying something that one of your team members don't want to hear, and they still report you afterwards anyways because they're salty.

Please, by all means, show me one. That's all I asked in the first place. Show me a case where a player genuinely did not deserve the sanction they received, and Riot genuinely did nothing about it.

I really do Not trust riot, because they seem to be kind of shady. Not only do they use things coughchromaskins cough to distract players with something no one was even asking for, but it's like they're blind to real requests and issues. I'd be lying if I said I haven't submitted two support tickets that have gone completely ignored, and now only to not be able to submit a ticket at all because the language setting isn't working.

Players had been asking for skin recolors for years. Honestly, the only complaint I've heard about them has been about the price.

Also, I think it's worth noting that not trusting them to follow through on a promise is not the same as not trusting other types of statements.

Or the match history feature. I've been having problems with it for the last 6 days where it won't load my history at all and it just shows a blank box. I google this and it's been a recurring problem amongst players for over a year, and no fix for it? tribunal has been wanted back by majority players, still been down for over a year with no word on it coming back up at all despite many players inquiring about it. There's 0 reason it should be down for THIS LONG, there was no reason for it to have been taken down in the first place. I never heard a complaint about the tribunal- not once.

I've never heard of an issue with the Match History, which means it's probably a pretty complicated problem - which explains a lot about why it's taken time to take it down. Lyte's been talking about the Tribunal's return pretty incessantly - discussing the direction they're going and what they're working on pretty much since it was taken down. If you hadn't heard a complaint about the Tribunal, you must not have spent a lot of time on the Forums. I saw complaints about it daily - usually from the players affected by it, much like most of the complaints about the current systems are from players who have been affected by it.

Or let's take the servers into question. Last year riot grossed 1 billion dollars on a free to play game. Yet extra servers or better ones haven't even been a concern for them at all, but they'll sure release new champions that everyone will spend money on, won't they?

Well, considering they upgraded their servers within the past year, I'd say it has been a concern for them.

So when asked if I trust riot and think they have the best intentions for their players and don't lie to just comfort people, well.

I'm not talking about lying to comfort people. I'm talking specifically about falsifying evidence against a player. You're welcome to generalize all you wish, but even if some - or all - of those generalized situations are truly worthy of mistrust, that doesn't necessarily speak to this specific situation. Especially when it's such a clearly different situation.

EleshakaiJul 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

It so isn't inaccurate. It literally does't scan the logs. If you send in a support ticket for it, the responses will literally say that you were toxic, but don't provide the chat logs to actually back it up.

And ONE person who deserves the chat restriction doesn't prove that the system isn't checked. I distinctly remember reading the system isn't reviewed by an actual person until it's time to actually be banned, then it's reviewed by an employee.

Sorry to burst your bubble there, champ.

what Jubb said - the automated system scans the logs, not a person. Although they also do random spot reviews.

I Main SamusJul 15, 20151 votes

They've yet to do that as far as I've seen. I can send in actual evidence of the said incidents on why I get restrictions unfairly, and I get the same copy-pasted robot answer. It never changes no matter what I say and what it's over I get the exact same email with another name tied to it.

JubbinautJul 14, 20151 votes

Players who don't talk don't receive chat restrictions. Seriously. It's possible to earn a ban for intentional feeding or griefing, but not for verbal abuse, and not a chat restriction.

As for the rest, it strongly depends on how you're defending yourself. Your best bet is to keep your chat focused on the game (rather than the players), mute anyone who you even suspect of being toxic, and report anyone who actual is toxic.

RueianJul 14, 20151 votes

they randomly sample cases, Send a ticket if you think the judgement is wrong.

EleshakaiJul 14, 20151 votes

It's automated, and they sample cases at random.

Getting reported isn't enough, the system checks the chatlog to see what you've said and if its nothing it would consider that a false report.

However, the system works kind of on a reputation system... so if you fall far enough down, it can take time to work your way back up ESPECIALLY if you don't talk. Why? Because the system tries to evaluate your performance, and it requires data to do that. It requires seeing you engage with people in a positive way to really notice that you've improved your behaviour. If you get a chat restriction and in subsequent games it just sees you not talking, it will gradually increase your standing, but not terribly quickly, so you may get more chat restrictions but they should be shorter each time as the system improves your standing.

SneakySockJul 14, 20151 votes

it's hard to talk while chat restricted :l

EleshakaiJul 14, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mistress Kat,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=mckHulGu,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-07-14T20:30:25.519+0000)

it's hard to talk while chat restricted :l

no it's not. You have several messages to be productive. Use them, be productive with them.

They don't want you to have a friendly chat all game, they want you to show you're going to use the chat provided to you effectively. Call timers, congratulate people on plays, own up to your mistakes politely, do the little things every so often.

If your chatlog looks like this for a 20 minute game:

GL HF Guys. TopFlash down Ganking mid Ward in bush Wow! Nice ult man! Ah shit, my bad guys, sorry. ADC Flash down. Ult in 30 Holy shit that was amazing. Good job! GG folks

the system will evaluate you as positive. There's no reason you couldn't say that much in a 20 minute game even on a chat restriction.

It's all about making the messages you have count.

SneakySockJul 14, 20151 votes

{quoted}

no it's not. You have several messages to be productive. Use them, be productive with them.

They don't want you to have a friendly chat all game, they want you to show you're going to use the chat provided to you effectively. Call timers, congratulate people on plays, own up to your mistakes politely, do the little things every so often.

If your chatlog looks like this for a 20 minute game:

GL HF Guys. TopFlash down Ganking mid Ward in bush Wow! Nice ult man! Ah shit, my bad guys, sorry. ADC Flash down. Ult in 30 Holy shit that was amazing. Good job! GG folks

the system will evaluate you as positive. There's no reason you couldn't say that much in a 20 minute game even on a chat restriction.

It's all about making the messages you have count.

this is exactly what i already do.

EleshakaiJul 14, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mistress Kat,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=mckHulGu,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2015-07-14T21:09:48.800+0000)

this is exactly what i already do.

That's not what you SAID you do though. You said you don't talk at all.

SneakySockJul 14, 20151 votes

just happened again, i didnt say a single word all game and i got reported for verbal abuse and my chat restriction just got extended.. wtf.......