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Toxicity, from a Toxic Player's Point of View

Grizzler··4 votes·2,617 views

Hello everyone,

Before I get started I just wanted to let you know that I am an extremely toxic player and I'm hoping to explain a few things about toxicity in this post. I know toxicity is wrong and isn't the most helpful thing to be, I apologize if I have ruined a lot of you all's experiences during matches with me. But I wanted to share with you a conversation I had with someone after a match who, like me, is pretty toxic. I've replaced their summoner name with a "1". Also, will be lots of misspelled words, was typing fast.

1 : im just doing draft so i can get back to ranked Grizzler: same Grizzler: im really vocal 1 : haaha you have restrictions too?? Grizzler: yeah Grizzler: when people [screw] up i call them out 1 : true 1 : i do as well Grizzler: so they dont do it again Grizzler: idk Grizzler: i dont beleive in just letting them do their own thing Grizzler: if they have no idea they [screwed] up Grizzler: then theyll keep doing it 1 : it makes you lose if they keep doing the wrong thing Grizzler: of course i call them out Grizzler: then they cuss me out Grizzler: then i get into it 1 : its stupid that no one in this community can handle curse words Grizzler: league could fix 90% of reports in one go 1 : as if they go everywhere without curse words in their daily life Grizzler: if u just made it so if ur message contained ANY bad word Grizzler: it wouldnt send 1 : i mean they have an option to filter out the bad words Grizzler: no Grizzler: thats [dumb] Grizzler: u can still say them Grizzler: and still get reported Grizzler: if u CANT say it 1 : ik, but people report over words Grizzler: but think about it 1 : that come from someone they don't even know Grizzler: youll want to say [screw] you Grizzler: but u cant 1 : true 1 : that seems good Grizzler: so u have to consiously change your sentence Grizzler: after a while Grizzler: ud get tired Grizzler: of the hassle 1 : its just stupid how people get so butt hurt though Grizzler: yeah Grizzler: one bad word and they report 1 : srs 1 : they report you yet their like 4/`43 1 : 4/13 Grizzler: well toxicity doesnt have to do with skill 1 : i know but if someone is feeding their [butt] off i'm gonna be toxic Grizzler: there should be a play mode where u AGREE not to report except for feeders and afkers 1 : i don't wanna lose Grizzler: well the whole point is that you shouldnt rage at all Grizzler: but some people are just different as humans Grizzler: its like part of the eprson Grizzler: to get really aggravated 1 : yeah, i know Grizzler: and tehir argument is that u should chang that Tbot66: simple things can tend to make me mad Grizzler: [heck] no Grizzler: ur telling me to change who i am Grizzler: to benefit you Grizzler: i literally only get mad 1 : seriously, and you know how hard it is to change the way your brain is wired Grizzler: with video games 1 : me too!! Grizzler: i vent all my frustatrations Grizzler: on games Grizzler: its just what i do Grizzler: and im supr [freaking] chill everywhere else 1 : i've tried not raging, it's too hard Grizzler: except with the LAkers and Patriots Grizzler: if i dont vent it makes it worse 1 : hahahaha Grizzler: i have to steadily vent or ill explode 1 : that's why i play games Grizzler: but when i get mad like Grizzler: i say things that are pretty cruel Grizzler: but i dont really mean them 1 : same Grizzler: im just trying to say the most hurtful thing 1 : it's as if you see red and can't tell what you're saying until after Grizzler: to make the person leav the conversation 1 : exactly Grizzler: and if they do you "win" Grizzler: thre are so many people who do this 1 : true taht Grizzler: and ive tried to chagne but its really not posible 1 : i know 1 : i went through anger management 1 : as a kid Grizzler: all the people i cuss out Grizzler: i know id be really chill with them Grizzler: in real life 1 : ikr Grizzler: well most Grizzler: sometimes u cant get along Grizzler: no matter what 1 : yeah that 1 : is true Grizzler: i mean i even say like Grizzler: racist things Grizzler: but im not racist 1 : dude, same Grizzler: i know people will be like 1 : it's like a habit to just tell people to [screw] off and stuff over games Grizzler: but u are racist if you say those things Grizzler: exactly 1 : even in person 1 : i cuss and don't even know Grizzler: like i said i subconsiously try to say the most hurtful thing Grizzler: most appauling thing 1 : it's just a part of my daily speech kinda 1 : yeah Grizzler: and the N word is like top of the list 1 : you just wanna go as deep as possible Grizzler: it has the most effect 1 : 2 years ago i made a adoption joke at a kid taht was adopted because he pissed me off, and i didn't realize til after how mean it was Grizzler: [stuff] like that yeah Grizzler: you go for the jugular 1 : exactly Grizzler: its not healthy and its not right but its just how some people are Grizzler: and Riot doesnt want those people playing their game 1 : its healthy for me, becaue if i don't do it it gets worse Grizzler: which is understandable Grizzler: but ive spent a lot of money on this game and il keep spedning but they need to find a compromise Grizzler: Of course their argument will be "but we shouldntt have to compromise, you shouldnt be a [male part]

Well there you go, if you took the time to read this entire thing, thanks that's cool. I know that most, if not all Toxicity stems from the anonymity that is the interwebs, but again, I really don't hate whoever I play with, I don't go into a game WANTING to rage at you. If I could instantly not be a toxic player I would totally take that opportunity. I'm sure a lot of you reading this will just reply with stuff along the lines of "go away toxic [expletive]". And that'll be warranted, I just wanted to share some of my thoughts on the subject. Again, sorry if I've ruined anyone's time on league with my behavior.

105 Comments

SpírìtsAway10 votes

What makes you so inclined to type in chat your feelings when you could just as easily not use the chat at all? The difference between being toxic and not being toxic is the enter key. Nothing is forcing you to use it, right?

Grizzler4 votes

Nothing is forcing me, technically no. However, like I expressed, I subconsciously want to prove that what I think is right, and if someone isn't doing what I think to be correct, then I should correct them. If I don't say it then they'll keep doing it. I've also been cussed out for trying to be genuinely helpful in a positive way so I tend to go for the more direct approach. I mean doesn't it slightly annoy you when people tell you how to build etc?

Grizzler2 votes

I mean, I'll tell someone "You should've pushed mid while 3 people came top to deal with me". They hear: "You suck! You didn't push mid! How awful!!! Uninstall". What I want them to hear: "Next time 3 people come top, push mid".

Jubbinaut2 votes

If what you want them to hear is "Next time 3 ppl come top, push mid" then maybe say those exact words.

If you aren't saying what you want people to hear, the fault doesn't lie with them.

Grizzler1 votes

Also, "You should've pushed mid" Should NOT beget a heated response. If saying that is out of line then this community is like 12 years old on average.

Jubbinaut2 votes

I didn't say it should. I said that if you want people to understand you saying a specific thing, then you should say that specific thing. In other words: You should mean what you say, and say what you mean.

Grizzler1 votes

Again, how often do people say EXACTLY what they want when they are frustrated?

Jubbinaut5 votes

Using text formats? I almost always do. So do most of the people I know.

And, y'know, if you aren't saying what you mean, then maybe you could at least not blame others for their lack of understanding when you aren't being clear about your intent.

The point is, you don't get to have it both ways. Either you can say exactly what you mean and be frustrated when it's misunderstood; or you can say things that aren't what you mean - and recognize that it's your own fault when it's misunderstood.

But you don't get to say things that aren't what you mean and then be pissed when other people don't know what you meant.

disregardable8 votes

Grizzler: i mean i even say like Grizzler: racist things Grizzler: but im not racist 1 : dude, same

This pretty much sums up everything that's wrong with this post.

Grizzler1 votes

I think I touched on that subject in the conversation, but over your head I guess.

disregardable4 votes

Oh, you sure said things. Were they logical or accurate? Nope.

Grizzler1 votes

Saying that people don't say thing they really mean when they are angry isn't logical or accurate? Interesting! Teach me senpai

Jubbinaut2 votes

It might be accurate, and it might be logical, but it's not relevant.

Nobody hurt by what you say cares if you meant it, barring those few who genuinely care about you. And a neutral 3rd party certainly doesn't care if you meant it - they only care about how others are affected by it.

Grizzler1 votes

How often are people genuinely hut while trash talking in a game? You trash talk and once the game is over you move on. You're exaggerating here. And saying it's NOT relevant isn't logical whatsoever

Jubbinaut3 votes

I'm not really exaggerating at all. I'm pointing out that Riot doesn't care if you meant it. They care about whether or not "it" is within the boundaries of what their community has determined as acceptable.

Grizzler1 votes

Actually you are, and I'm not just talking about Riot, I'm talking about human beings as human beings. Which is something you obviously haven't been able to realize yet.

Jubbinaut3 votes

Then please do explain what I'm exaggerating about. Because, frankly, I don't see how the statement "Riot doesn't care if you meant what you said when you were being toxic" is remotely an exaggeration. Especially when they have explicitly stated that there's no acceptable excuse or rationale for it.

Grizzler1 votes

You're exaggerating how truly affected people are by toxicity. You're talking as if it's like ruining their life and they will be scared forever. They just move on once the match is over. And I agree that Riot doesn't care about the context, and that's one of my other points. It's not always so cut and dry. And AGAIN, everyone is different and reacts differently to the same situations. Why must I keep saying this?

StillRJay3 votes

How do you know how it affects someone? Just because it doesn't affect you, then it must not affect others? Its true, they'll move on after the match. Moving on doesn't necessarily mean queue for next match. It can mean to stop playing the game for a while or entirely. Guess who doesn't want that? Riot.

Jubbinaut3 votes

Except, thing is? I'm not actually talking about how people are affected by toxicity. I just want to be clear about this:

I am not exaggerating about what you think I'm exaggerating about, because I'm not talking about that. I used it in my initial example as a lead-in to the actual point. Whether or not you meant it when you called that guy a nigger is irrelevant to whether or not you did.

And the action is punishable whether or not you meant those words when you said them.

It's similar to how, in real life, shooting somebody is punishable whether or not you meant to shoot them.

Grizzler1 votes

Did I once say that it wasn't punishable? Sigh.....................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Jubbinaut4 votes

Did I once say that you claimed it wasn't? (No, I didn't)

Does that question relate to my point at all? (No, it doesn't)

You can argue that you "didn't mean it" all you want, but nobody cares whether you meant it or not. It's entirely irrelevant to any discussion of toxicity.

Of course, you're welcome to continue to ignore that and whine about how it's not so bad that you act like a racist jerk because you're not really one. And basically everyone else will just shake their heads, because as far as anyone can see, you are. Because that's how you act, and what you say.

Pandemic Punch5 votes

Ragers always think they are right. They never consider the possibility that what they are raging about is completely wrong. Discipline yourself.

Grizzler1 votes

I think it depends on the situation? If I see that 2 of the other team are top to deal with me, and Dragon is up, and i ping Drag like 15 times and no one reacts. Then I say "Why did you not get drag? 3 were top." And the response I get is: "Shut up [champ name] I/we [insert BS excuse here]." OR this scenario: I get put into a bad matchup top against Lissandra or something and I tell the jungle about this before the game starts. Once the game starts I say "Gank top pre 6 please." The game progresses and she is pushing to my tower the entire time, and every so often I ping for help, but the jungle never reacts at all ever. So I start TYPING "I could really use some help top." At this point I may die or be down like 40cs and the jungler goes "Wow what a crappy top lane, always begging for help, losing their lane. Why do I get such shit laners every game!" I proceed to say "This is a counter pick to me, it's not easy to lane against her" And he responds "Counter picks are for bronzies, you're just bad, knew I should've gone top lane."

Bottom line: I would be correct in this situation because the jungler is NOT doing their job. These type of things are almost always what I complain about, and my complaining leads to raging due to their rude reactions and responses. I mean, I played this game yesterday where I was Orianna mid, and we had a Janna support. I ulted 3 of them, and then Janna ults and pushes them away from us and we couldn't follow up. ALL I SAY: "really?" Janna: "Shut the ---- up! Who builds Will of the Ancients on Orianna anyways?!" (I was at 6 items and it was a norms so I went with it). But this is the type of stuff I'm talking about. I am CLEARLY correct, but whatever I guess.

Pandemic Punch2 votes

lol

Grizzler1 votes

Very well thought out! Very insightful, what a masterful response!

Pandemic Punch2 votes

Nothing needed to be said. You proved my point rather than refuted it. I found that hilarious.

steelblacksky3 votes

well i'd say the jungler responded in a piss poor fashion, but your assertion that they were not doing the job they needed to is tenuous at best.

by not being in lane and working another income and experience source instead they are doing their default job. if they cover for recalls, or respond to the enemy jungler ganking, counterjungle, or prompt a response from the enemy jungle they are going above and beyond, and not all of these duties are within the purview of every champ who may go jungle at all, much less at the same times in a matches progression.

is roaming to apply pressure good? usually yes. is it exclusively the task of the jungler, no.

furthermore making good decisions for the team, not for the individual who may need to take one for the team, is the job of every player.

as you noted in an earlier post, if 3 are top for you you want them to push an objective because that is what is best for the team, not run to help you top in a bad/losing situation, or do nothing at all.

a jungler looking at a losing scenario is going to ask themselves if they can actually turn that around to a team profit, or at least a personal one that can be used to garner a team profit. if the answer based on what they believe they can achieve by going to the losing lane is no to that question, then they absolutely should not go.

put it this way, the axiomatic rule is to not gank losing lanes. adding to that, realize that just because you may be able to pull of an underfed gank with that jungle champ in that situation, doesn't mean they can.

if they said to you " if i go gank your losing lane i am confident based on my experience and skill that i will just feed a double kill" would you want them to gank top in those circumstances?

if they further indicated that " their experience and skill tells them they should be able to pull off a double kill alone botlane as soon as they complete x item, so long as they do it before botlane hits 6, which will set them up to buy item y which they know can get them a kill mid immediately after so long as the midlaner hasn't got a full 3 levels on them yet" well, you'd want them to do that even if it meant you had to endure getting crapped on top for eight minutes straight while they powerfarmed to achieve that, which would transition into a free dragon and probably a power boost to four total players on the team otherwise.

right?

as to your janna, well, heck just this Januaries psychology today has an article on the benefits of negative emotions. the comment on anger is that normally it is a prompt for actions which are intended to cause people to adjust their perceived value of you. this inherently implies of your views opinions and choices too. you wanna peg someone else then expect your judgement to be questioned in turn as it directly underscores this - which is exactly what they were doing calling out the item choice. both players response actions are human nature. both actions CAN be trained out.

this goes for decisions too. 1: your exposition on your thinking - "its a normal so just went with it". you mean its a game like any other and should be taken seriously given it has a time and energy investment from 9 human beings other than yourself just like any other mode including ranked? yeah, on this one you don't get to set your values first. you actually agree to the latter to play, and if you fail to abide, yes, you do need to adjust yourself to that reality. league is no right, it is a revocable privilege extended on a limited basis and according to agreement to abide by certain terms and conditions or not participate. they even grant what can be considered a fair amount of leeway on adherence all things considered.

this isn't monopoly at home, at least not unless you agree to a couple legal contracts including how you will behave while playing when you play monopoly at home.

i've brought this up in a few discussions now, but consider your last line here closely.

you "know you are correct",

try getting angry and heated when you DON"T know you are correct.

for an exercise try finding things, be they zen koans(which are intended to do this), or anything else that enables you to induce momentary doubt to your otherwise certainty, i think you'll find a huge amount of heat will drop doing so. because the most effective debate comes not from the impassioned, but from the dispassionate. maybe you were right, maybe not. can you change what has happened already? what else could you have been doing with that time while you were typing instead?

heck i can watch some behaviour patterns in lane that have me gritting my teeth figuratively from time to time, or situations that make me feel much the same as you describe. i spent some time being annoyed at having to spend my time and energy doing so, but eventually got over that irritation and started finding ways to feel that uncertainty instead of just mentally voicing it, instead of raging at the screen, or letting something slip in chat.

that is not to say sometimes it isn't still frustrating to the point my hands shake by the end of a match, but i realize much of what went sideways could have come from better communication and experience as a group, and these were random people not a team of regulars(which is a consequence of my choices first and foremost, i could have pulled together a premade group and gotten voice going instead). also that lots of typing during a match is the fastest way to soft lose a match, right up there with opening the shop window while recalling in less that perfectly safe places.

maybe it would have been best if people pushed that objective when the enemy collapsed on you, or maybe getting that jungler to show up would have turned things around for the whole team. but after indicating the request or idea, if you aren't going into another match with them, odds are the damage is done, opportunity gone, etc. if it isn't communication that can definitely clearly present a tactic for then onward in that specific match, its a waste of typing, as they won't be applying anything learned in your next game 99% of the time.heck you might be helping someone who will be your opponent in the next game and while that'd be sportsmanlike, if it is hard to do at all without opening the floodgates, its probably just not worth the time.

furthermore as per my "what if the jungler said these things first" section, one thing is certain : you, me, and everyone else NEVER know all the relevant facts and details. it is easy for anyone to overvalue their own perspective and conclusions and become angered when others do not show they value us and our conclusions by acting in accord with them. by not doing what seems right to us, what we expect, listening to us. but you or i never know what they know, or feel they can accomplish at any given moment. bottom lining that usually if you don't think you can do a thing, you can't, until you think maybe you could. so those crazy decisions when that kind of thing is filled in start to make some real sense, that we couldn't begin to see when we were secure in our self certainty of what is what.

sadly outside of a coaching or team discussion environment that sort of thought process/confidence/ability/reasoning set never gets laid out there so people can work with the info and teamwork better or constructively improve.

and without that information certainty as to what is best without express instructions is usually a recipe for nothing but people wasting words on chance encounters with strangers over the internet, afterall why should they listen to one persons call over another persons, especially if both don't make sense to them and what they feel they can do at that time.

so why waste that energy on them that might, just possibly, at a really longshot stretch help you pull something off to better the losing situation directly.

meh. got this far and see a few points made that are a bit circumlocutious, and a few others that can seem combative. apologies if it reads that way. take it like an impressionist painting done in words if that helps. heck in a couple places it almost seems like idgaf as to the expressed difficulty you have with not just spouting it, and thats definitely not the case. i'm just finding it'd take far too long to format and rework into something cleaner, and find the main and salient ideas, are in fact, presented in spite of these things. that any lesser edits would likely leave it discontinuous or less clear on an impressionist level. one of my flaws right there.2

hopefully there will be something in there that might provide some useful perspectives. feel free to take em and toss the rest.

peace and a fair day to you grizzler.

Jubbinaut4 votes

Well, first of all, cursing isn't ever a problem. No one has ever received any form of restriction just for saying the word fuck.

It comes down to how those words are used. And as you state, you intentionally try to hurt people with what you say. And that's where it becomes problematic. If this is a community - and it is - then it must, by nature, follow the rules that communities follow. One of those is that things which are harmful to the community are not accepted by the community. And that which harms a part of the community can be said to be harmful to the community as a whole.

So why should the community compromise with that harmful aspect of itself?

No one is saying you can't be angry - no one has ever said that. Stupid shit happens in this game. Get angry about it if you need to. Express it if you need to. But, y'know, maybe don't use chat to do so.

Yell at your monitor. Post scathing rants here on the boards or a blog or whatever. Throw stress-balls at the wall. Do something that helps you release that anger.

But don't type it in chat.

Honestly, though? That entire conversation sounds like two dicks talking about how they should be allowed to be dicks because it's too hard to not be dicks.

And it's not that hard. It's really not. Unless, for example, you're a rage-addict. Or are somehow incapable of controlling your own behavior - under the influence of a mind-affecting drug, for example. Or, y'know, have some other genuine psychological issues. And, y'know, maybe - if that's the case - you should deal with those.

And if that's not the case? Then maybe don't be a dick to people.

Grizzler1 votes

It's not hard for you because that's who you are, every person is different. That's the whole "It's just a game argument." How many people do you know would get mad if someone told them "It's just a game" as they were get frustrated? It's different for different people and if you can't see that then that's sad.

Jubbinaut3 votes

{quoted}

It's not hard for you because that's who you are, every person is different.

Obviously every person is different. But how hard is it to just not press the enter button? It requires more effort to actually do that than it does to not do it.

That's the whole "It's just a game argument." How many people do you know would get mad if someone told them "It's just a game" as they were get frustrated? It's different for different people and if you can't see that then that's sad.

I never said "it's just a game". I didn't use that argument on purpose. I used this argument: if you're pissed off, don't take it out on other people. I actually based my argument on the larger sociological concepts of community - taking it well beyond the "just a game" concept - much less argument.

Thing is, though, there's exactly no problem with being frustrated. If something is frustrated, it is a perfectly normal and acceptable response to be frustrated. But it's not normal or acceptable to abuse other people in that frustration.

And if you can't act in line with socially acceptable behavior, then that's on you.

Grizzler1 votes

My point is that if you say ONE thing, that's remotely negative in league, it spirals out of control because the other person just lashes out. Doesn't matter if you said it nicely or harshly, it almost always happens. Everyone thinks they are right 95% of the time, so they take constructive criticism as an attack on them. I never just randomly go all rage on someone, there is always build up.

Jubbinaut2 votes

{quoted}

My point is that if you say ONE thing, that's remotely negative in league, it spirals out of control because the other person just lashes out. Doesn't matter if you said it nicely or harshly, it almost always happens. Everyone thinks they are right 95% of the time, so they take constructive criticism as an attack on them. I never just randomly go all rage on someone, there is always build up.

That's shifting responsibility. It doesn't matter what they say or do, you are the only person that's responsible for you. They aren't forcing you to respond, or requiring that you do so in a negative way. You're choosing to do so.

And, like I said, that's on you. It's your decision to say those things. No one else's.

Grizzler2 votes

People who stir the pot and piss people off are not to blame? Nice! Also, like i said at least 123 times, everyone is different. I'm sorry but I have some backbone and I defend myself when I'm being attacked, I don't just sit there and take it.

Jubbinaut2 votes

{quoted}

People who stir the pot and piss people off are not to blame? Nice!

I'd normally make some kind of comment about how that's not what I said, but you're now the second person to make that assumption from that same post. So, instead, I'd like to ask what about my statement implies that other people are not to blame for their own actions?

You are responsible for yourself - no one else is. By the same token, other people are each responsible for themselves - no one else is.

Also, like i said at least 123 times, everyone is different. I'm sorry but I have some backbone and I defend myself when I'm being attacked, I don't just sit there and take it.

Cool! Not once have I said "don't respond when people attack you!"

But, y'know, if you're going to respond in a way that's rude, offensive, or - to use the more common term - toxic, own up to it. Don't try to pretend like it's someone else's fault that you made that decision. Take responsibility for it.

Grizzler1 votes

Like I've said over and over, if you say ANYTHING that isn't along the lines of a "pat on the back"or declarative statement, it is viewed as toxicity and people flame you. Heck, you say glhf and people tell you to STFU. You can't try and help your teammates through words ever or they just bash you for it. You can't even talk about skins without someone getting defensive, and don't even get me started on meta champs.

Jubbinaut3 votes

{quoted}

Like I've said over and over, if you say ANYTHING that isn't along the lines of a "pat on the back"or declarative statement, it is viewed as toxicity and people flame you. Heck, you say glhf and people tell you to STFU. You can't try and help your teammates through words ever or they just bash you for it. You can't even talk about skins without someone getting defensive, and don't even get me started on meta champs.

Okay. So what does that have to do with what I'm saying?

I mean, it's very contrary to my own experience, but we aren't the same people, and obviously aren't having the same experiences. So that's what you've seen and dealt with. But what does it have to do with what I'm saying?

If you aren't being toxic in your opening statements that earn those flames, and you aren't returning fire, you won't be sanctioned.

If you aren't being toxic in your opening statements, and you do return fire when you're flamed, you earned the sanction.

You don't get a pass just because other people were toxic first.

Grizzler1 votes

Why do people keep assuming that I'm asking for a pass?! Where did I say that I wanted a free pass? Say: "I like Bananas" And people hear: "Runescape is bacon!" I'm done, sigh...................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Jubbinaut2 votes

{quoted}

Why do people keep assuming that I'm asking for a pass?! Where did I say that I wanted a free pass?

Not only did you not explicitly ask for it, I neither assumed nor stated that you did. I used the term in a far more general sense, to illustrate a separate point.

You're doing a very good job of missing my point entirely (or perhaps I'm not explaining it well), so let me try again:

You are the only person who has control over your actions. No one else does.

Because of this, you are the only person who is considered responsible for your actions. No one else is.

You've tried in at least two different ways to shift that responsibility:

  1. "People who stir the pot and piss people off are not to blame? Nice! Also, like i said at least 123 times, everyone is different. I'm sorry but I have some backbone and I defend myself when I'm being attacked, I don't just sit there and take it." ((This indicates an attempt to shift responsibility towards those who you are acting against.))
  • "Grizzler: but ive spent a lot of money on this game and il keep spedning but they need to find a compromise" ((This indicates an attempt to shift responsibility to an outside factor - Riot in this case.))

But those whose actions put a decision in front of you are not responsible for the decision you make. You are.

And those who enforce the rules are not responsible for helping you follow those rules. You are.

It's your responsibility. Take it. Own it. Be an adult about it.

Grizzler1 votes

You're missing my point ENTIRELY. NOT EVERYONE CAN EFFECTIVELY CONTROL THEIR EMOTIONS, SOME PEOPLE ARE JUST BUILT THAT WAY, I'M NOT TRYING TO SHIRK RESPONSIBILITY, I'M ASKING FOR A DIFFERENT TYPE OF PUNISHMENT THAT COULD HELP BOTH PARTIES. WHY IS THIS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND. Btw I'm in all caps because you must have a hard time reading, not because I'm raging. I'm trying to ACCOMMODATE you. How many times is my point gonna do loopdeloops over your head?

Jubbinaut2 votes

I didn't miss that point. I completely ignored it because I assumed it was beneath you.

"It's not my fault! I can't help it!" isn't valid for children. Why should it be valid for you?

If you aren't capable of not pressing the enter key when you're pissed, change your keybindings. Look online - there's 3rd party apps that allow you to completely disable certain keyboard keys.

If you cannot actively avoid being toxic, try pro-actively doing so. Take steps to prevent your toxicity before you get pissy.

I don't understand how that's so complicated.

Jubbinaut2 votes

I must have. I didn't see you say anything about attempting pro-active methods to avoid it. I did see you say this: "Grizzler: and ive tried to chagne but its really not posible," but that's not what I'm talking about there.

You don't have to change yourself. You just have to change your surroundings so that the things you don't want to change about yourself don't affect other people. (That's called being pro-active - taking action before it's necessary).

You could choose to learn how to avoid the kinds of anti-social behavior your initial post references, but that's not actually necessary if you're willing to find other ways to handle it.

Like, for example, disabling your enter key; or rebinding your chat button to some crazy convoluted button combination.

I guess, though, that those options aren't acceptable to you. I suppose that's because you'd have to actually do it, instead of making it someone else's responsibility to keep you from spewing toxicity everywhere.

Grizzler1 votes

Also, I'm asking if it could be possible to willingly be restricted from ever being able to even type curse words in the game. Or have macros to use. If you STILL don't get what I'm saying then idk what to tell you.

Jubbinaut2 votes

That's a good option, too. There's a lot of software out there that will let you make macros.

But it relies on you taking action.

Lime Josh3 votes

{quoted}

My point is that if you say ONE thing, that's remotely negative in league, it spirals out of control because the other person just lashes out. Doesn't matter if you said it nicely or harshly, it almost always happens. Everyone thinks they are right 95% of the time, so they take constructive criticism as an attack on them. I never just randomly go all rage on someone, there is always build up.

Grizzler EVERYTHING you have posted is dam near 100. You fucking trolls saying "how you say it" etc etc etc is total bs and you all know it. As soon as you say ANYTHING in ANY mannor it becomes "report so and so, so toxic, ty honor for all" and your reported x3 from the other team simply because you couldnt speak in all chat to counter argue the bs player x said in game. Dont even say shit about the other 3 teammates defending you because if they see you not 5-0 they are gunna report you to dodge the blame from themselves to why the game was lost. The bottom line is kids need to stop running and crying to mom over some random over the internet, were not 5 @ the playground GROW UP.

Jubbinaut3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lime Josh,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=ac0z2wPw,comment-id=00050000000000000001,timestamp=2015-02-10T01:53:31.707+0000)

You fucking trolls saying "how you say it" etc etc etc is total bs and you all know it. As soon as you say ANYTHING in ANY mannor it becomes "report so and so, so toxic, ty honor for all"

That hasn't been my experience. My experience, of course, isn't necessarily relevant to yours, but it is relevant in the general sense. How you say things is a strong factor in determining how others respond. Simply because you haven't seen that doesn't deny the fact of it.

and your reported x3 from the other team simply because you couldnt speak in all chat to counter argue the bs player x said in game.

Of course, it doesn't really matter how many reports you receive in a game, either. One report is the same as 9 for the purposes of building a case. So if you've said or done something to instigate one player to report you, it doesn't matter how many others do - the game has been reported.

And let's not forget that reports don't automagically lead to restrictions or bans. There's a review step where the games are examined before sanctions are issued, so if you didn't do anything that Riot deems actionable, you wouldn't have the sanction.

Lime Josh1 votes

{quoted}

That hasn't been my experience. My experience, of course, isn't necessarily relevant to yours, but it is relevant in the general sense. How you say things is a strong factor in determining how others respond. Simply because you haven't seen that doesn't deny the fact of it.

Of course, it doesn't really matter how many reports you receive in a game, either. One report is the same as 9 for the purposes of building a case. So if you've said or done something to instigate one player to report you, it doesn't matter how many others do - the game has been reported.

And let's not forget that reports don't automagically lead to restrictions or bans. There's a review step where the games are examined before sanctions are issued, so if you didn't do anything that Riot deems actionable, you wouldn't have the sanction.

reports dont matter my ass, then why do people get banned? BECAUSE REPORTS MATTER, if player a gets reported 3 of 4 games, even if hes, as you 5 year olds refer to as "toxic" then he will be having tons of games where hes reported, thus causing him to be reviewed faster, even if sum 1 reviews 50 games of the 5k player has played, that dosnt represent the person. if they compile a case on a player of 9 games, but the 9 games were on the fence of a ban or not, but the books show player gets reported in 50% of his games, then that player will most likely ave some type of punishment against them simply because they dont view all games. @riot i challange you to say you dont view all the games, because when i become "toxic" its PROVOKED, you need to stop banning/muting people by "evidence" thats taken out of context.

Jubbinaut4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lime Josh,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=ac0z2wPw,comment-id=0005000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2015-02-10T02:24:11.579+0000)

reports dont matter my ass, then why do people get banned? BECAUSE REPORTS MATTER,

I didn't say reports don't matter. I said: "It doesn't really matter how many reports you receive in a game." Note that relates explicitly on a per-game basis.

The report system builds cases based on a percentage of reported games. A game is considered reported if any number of players chooses to report. So whether a player is reported one time or nine times, and regardless of who reports him in that game, it still only counts as one game towards a case.

Once a case is built, the reported games (some 12-25% of total played games) are reviewed. There's not a lot of information about how those reviews are specifically handled, but I suspect that some semi-random portion of them are actually looked at. If no toxicity is found, the case is dismissed (Pardoned, in Tribunal terminology). Otherwise, a sanction is determined and issued.

But - and this is important - only the reported games are reviewed. Because the question isn't "is he mostly nice?" It's "was he breaking the rules when these people said he was?"

That's a pretty important distinction to make.

as you 5 year olds refer to as "toxic"

As a side-note, the above doesn't help your case any. I've no qualms about discussing these systems and their benefits and flaws, but there's not a lot of point when you're going to start throwing out ad-hominems and insults that quickly.

Grizzler1 votes

Do you see how flawed that is though? Like I said, you say ONE thing someone doesn't like, you get reported. Let's say you do this 100 games straight. And it's not even bad, something like, "wow that was dumb", and you were talking about the entire situation. Like "ah man that was dumb". So then out of 100 matches you get reported 100 times. Just getting reported at all makes the system more aware of you, and this report system is ridiculously flawed. So many 2 year olds in grown up bodies that are just WAITING to be able to report.

Jubbinaut3 votes

{quoted}

Do you see how flawed that is though? Like I said, you say ONE thing someone doesn't like, you get reported. Let's say you do this 100 games straight. And it's not even bad, something like, "wow that was dumb", and you were talking about the entire situation. Like "ah man that was dumb". So then out of 100 matches you get reported 100 times. Just getting reported at all makes the system more aware of you, and this report system is ridiculously flawed. So many 2 year olds in grown up bodies that are just WAITING to be able to report.

And that's when the report weighting system comes in.

See, when people make a lot of false reports, the weight of those reports drops. The system starts to straight-up ignore them. It can get bad enough that - assuming they're the only person to issue a report in a particular game - the entire game is just dismissed by the system (as in, it doesn't count as a reported game).

And of course, even ignoring that, if you aren't doing things that are against the rules, it doesn't matter if a case is built against you, because it'll be dropped.

There are systems within systems designed expressly to ensure that the report system doesn't get abused. And no, they aren't perfect, but that's why there's people and systems in place to review and verify it.

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