This whole "Toxic" crap

BigPoppy519·Oct 22, 2014·6 votes·1,904 views

I'm sorry but people on here must be spoiled or sheltered cause telling someone they are doing bad and getting a warning from riot saying I was verbally harrassed them is pretty ridiculous. Riot needs to get their heads out of their asses in thinking that everyone is going to be nice to everyone when all they are doing is letting them know the truth in that they are doing bad. Stop holding their hand and telling them its ok to be bad. I understand people have bad games I do, I have them myself, but when its to the point when you have no kills and are 0-16 then obviously something needs to change. Riot stop warning people for telling the truth to the spoiled little brats on this game and let them have some responsibility in the game and how they control it. Honestly I don't care anymore riot can stick it to where the sun doesn't shine cause I'm not going to change and if they keep it up they are going to lose a lot of people who play this game.

50 Comments

Deep Terror NamiOct 22, 20146 votes

I like how you're assuming people are only toxic to people actually being bad, and you're also saying the people that are bad deserve it. When you figure out why treating complete strangers with respect is a good thing to do, you'll reverse your opinion on this subject. Mature a little, you'll like it.

doubleguacOct 22, 20146 votes

Why are you making it about the victims? You're saying people should grow thick skin and just ignore it, or internalize the criticism and learn from it. Sure, that's maybe good advice. But it has nothing to do with the heart of the issue, which is that there is no justification for being an asshole.

If some random guy I've never met before starts yelling insults at me, it's probably in my best interest to ignore him. But that has nothing to do with the question of whether or not the random guy should be yelling insults in the first place, and whether this kind of behavior should be tolerated.

You don't get punished for respectfully offering advice. You get punished for being a dick. And there's no reason to be a dick. If some dude keeps showing up at a gym to play pick-up basketball, and is constantly screaming at his team mates and opponents, slinging insults, blaming everything on the people around him, using racial/homophobic slurs, etc., there's a good chance he's eventually going to get kicked out of the gym. It doesn't matter whether or not the people he is playing with are actually offended, or whether they just shrug it off, or whether it's true that they aren't good at basketball. All that matters is that the behavior is completely unacceptable.

BigPoppy519Oct 22, 20141 votes

I never said of insulting people just saying you are doing bad in a game shouldn't really insult you at all

NarasimhaOct 22, 20142 votes

Chances are, they know they're doing badly. They don't need you to keep shoving it on them.

AnomanderOct 22, 20144 votes

Act like this in real life. Try treating a customer this way. Try telling your boss they are bad.... Try treating a Drill instructor like this. Wake up and treat people decent and you will find a happier life. Treat people in games the same way you want to be treated IN REAL LIFE. Hell try going into a bar and telling someone they dance bad and see what happens.

BigPoppy519Oct 22, 20141 votes

So you are saying if someone is doing something wrong you wouldn't say something? You are assuming that these people are like my bosses try it the other way around would your boss be honest about your performance if it was bad yes would a drill instructor say it if it was bad yes you are just assuming the wrong thing here. Your boss basically will say if your performance was bad or good in a meeting right? A drill instructor would tell you if you are doing it wrong wouldn't they. Hell if someone says that I'm a bad dancer I would care I would keep dancing your argument is invalid

AnomanderOct 22, 20142 votes

YOU ARE NOT THEIR SUPERIOR. You are not in charge and to assume that you are is why you are toxic. This assumption that you are better then the other person is nothing more then arrogance. I used the examples for a very simple reason. In all of those situations you are not in command/charge/superior.

I truly hope someday you realize your not the 1# best thing out there because in LIFE you will get smacked down by those above you. I was trying to tell you this nicely and you go even more toxic which kinda proves my point. Let them play on their own feel free to offer advice but don't tell them they are bad. TRY ASKING IF THEY WANT A POINTER. If they say no ignore them and try to win.

BigPoppy519Oct 22, 20141 votes

I'm just listing examples like you are I'm not saying I'm their superior. The way you were saying was the same way I was saying it their not not my superiors and I'm not theirs, if you can't take criticism from someone that's your own fault I'm just saying it. I know I'm not the best thing out there like I clearly say I have bad games too, its just people not taking criticism from their peers YOU are the one listing the examples not me.

JubbinautOct 22, 20141 votes

I'm just listing examples like you are I'm not saying I'm their superior.

Within your examples, you explicitly put yourself in the position of authority. You are, there for, strongly implying that they should accept your "criticism" because it's a similar situation. The difference is, you aren't in a position of authority over them. You're a peer.

If your analogies related to discussions between peers, that would be a useful or valid comparison, but they don't. They aren't.

To be completely fair, neither of Anomander's analogies were particularly apt, either, as they posit the other person being in the position of authority, which is also untrue.

BigPoppy519Oct 22, 20141 votes

people of peers gives criticism all the time and its not like its bashing them or insulting them like others are saying if you can't take criticism then that's your deal ignore me, mute me, but I don't think its worth a report for stating a small thing like that when after that I didn't say anything else

JubbinautOct 22, 20142 votes

I'm not arguing with you about any of that. I'm explaining why your analogies were and are problematic. The only genuinely valid analogy I've seen in this thread is below, from Doubleguac.

If some dude keeps showing up at a gym to play pick-up basketball, and is constantly screaming at his team mates and opponents, slinging insults, blaming everything on the people around him, using racial/homophobic slurs, etc., there's a good chance he's eventually going to get kicked out of the gym. It doesn't matter whether or not the people he is playing with are actually offended, or whether they just shrug it off, or whether it's true that they aren't good at basketball. All that matters is that the behavior is completely unacceptable.

Note: This analogy is about a bunch of strangers or near-strangers playing a game they're semi-randomly matching up for. This is where it connects to the situation within League, and settles into being a useful analogy.

Yours are about 1-to-1 disagreements between people who not only know each other and have formalized relationships, but have an authoritative type of relationship. Do you see the distinction between the two?

If you wish to make your point using analogies, be sure that the analogy fits your situation.

BigPoppy519Oct 22, 20141 votes

Really that quote is going to the extreme max to where I wasn't blaming everyone or using racial/homophobic slurs etc... this analogy makes no sense and point invalid and I'm not saying this to you jubbinaut i don't know where this basketball thing came from lol

JubbinautOct 22, 20141 votes

I'm not saying that the extremity of the behaviors described in the analogy are equivalent to your case. I'm saying that at least the basis of that particular analogy (dude shows up at a gym to play pick-up basketball) is comparable to the situation it's analogizing (dude joins a matchmade league game).

Those extremities aren't necessary anyway. Being a bad sport has its own concerns, and belittling teammates, telling them how "bad" they are, etc, is the very definition of being a bad sport.

To adjust the analogy:

If some dude keeps showing up at a gym to play pick-up basketball, and is constantly badmouthing his teammates and telling them how terrible they are, there's a good chance he'll eventually get kicked out of the gym. It doesn't matter whether or not the people he is playing with are actually offended, or whether they just shrug it off, or whether it's true that they aren't good at basketball. All that matters is that the behavior is completely unacceptable.

AnomanderOct 23, 20141 votes

I am only using these examples because the OP was taking a position of authority over his team mates. When you assume you can tell another person they are worse then you at anything this is a assumption of authority. However I agree they were bad examples for a game and referred more to Real life.

I should prolly keep it to the context of either entertainment or games/sports.

JubbinautOct 23, 20141 votes

I understand, and I hope you know I didn't mean to be disparaging towards you. I simply wanted to be sure I didn't come off as picking sides between you, when my point was intended to be about the form of the discussion, rather than about the content.

And while I see your point there, I don't think that using that type of analogy is particularly effective. In any context, belittling or badmouthing another person is an attempt to place yourself above them. Establishing a non-analogous relationship to illustrate this as part of a separate analogy just seems over-complicated to me.

Though I do agree that sports analogies do seem to be the most relevant, even if it is sometimes difficult to wrap your point in them without sounding a bit like an idiot (which I've done).

AnomanderOct 23, 20142 votes

I have a bad habit of over complicating things.

Though I do agree that sports analogies do seem to be the most relevant, even if it is sometimes difficult to wrap your point in them without sounding a bit like an idiot (which I've done).

I think we all have at some point.

FlubbyDGOct 22, 20144 votes

Plenty of people know how to give honest feedback in a grown-up way.

You are the carebear. You want us to put up with your emotional outbursts, to sit there while you cry and scream and spew insults whenever a game doesn't go perfectly. Nope! We're gonna report, you can grow up or get perma'd. We win either way. Tough shit kid, deal with it.

/rekt

BigPoppy519Oct 22, 20141 votes

lol seriously this made me laugh emotional outbursts is really like just saying you are doing bad this game and here you are pushing it over the max with cry and scream and spew insults is nothing that i said at all and shows that you really didn't read it so I'm just gonna ignore your comment cause its ridiculous and honestly you are having the emotional outburst here not me child, grow up lol

really rekt... boom Perma'd

MrDrBuddOct 22, 20142 votes

lose a lot of toxic players and then gain a lot considering some people would play more with a better community

BigPoppy519Oct 22, 20142 votes

let me guess you are one of those people who get their hand held and told it was okay to do bad as long as you tried lol and a better community you will never have one when people play ranked and say hey its okay we lost cause you went 2-17 as long as you tried that is what matters.

MrDrBuddOct 22, 20146 votes

I bet you are a really fun person when your team is losing.

BigPoppy519Oct 22, 20142 votes

Depends on how bad we are losing lol if its a good game lose then I'm fine, but when people start feeding then its something else. If its a bad game like I said ill let them know by saying you are having a bad game and all that and that's basically it really.

BigPoppy519Oct 22, 20142 votes

O I'm sorry you can't handle the truth its okay though I'm usually nice though until they keep making the same mistakes over and over again. Being nice only goes a long way until the truth comes out that when you go 2-17 or something like that has to be said and its not like its cussing or anything its just saying you are doing bad this game and getting reported so unless you haven't said anything like that then don't talk hypocrite

MrDrBuddOct 22, 20145 votes

being reported for "doing bad" lol

BigPoppy519Oct 22, 20141 votes

No i don't report cause I know things like this happens like i said before it happens to me too lol people tell me I'm doing bad and other things way worse and I take it cause its true lol

Deep Terror NamiOct 22, 20147 votes

League of Legends and other video games, for 99%+ of all players, are merely forms of entertainment. It's not a job or a serious competition. They do not get off work or school to come here and berate others or be harassed themselves; they're here to have fun.

If you have a problem with bad players in your groups, you can get away from them in 2 different ways; Make a premade group with people you know personally or players who aren't bad, or, rank up and get grouped with people who are in general better.

If you can't understand the advantages to yourself and the community for being kind (or just not being toxic), you need help with some real life issues you have. Calm down, mute toxic people, and try and enjoy the game. If you still can't enjoy it then you should find a hobby that you do like.

To answer your accusation of being a hypocrite; Yes, I have been toxic to extremely bad players...but not since over 6 months ago when I got a notification of a report for it, and I stopped because I realized it was not only unhelpful to the team and myself, it's detrimental. You should grow up and lead by example instead of raging on the forum or in game. (You also say you told someone they're getting reported? That is harassment by the way and is bannable for trying to coerce their gameplay with threats. I wouldn't suggest doing it. If you can't keep calm, keep quiet and just report.)

BigPoppy519Oct 22, 20142 votes

The problem with your argument here is that there are always going to be people who ruin the game by feeding or trolling around and reporting doesn't do much at all cause I do stay quiet most of the time and just report them and I gurantee you that nothing happens. Isn't that why they are world championships and all that for competition. I play for the competition of the game that are in rank if people want for entertainment and don't want a competition then play normal and not ranked. I would think people who play rank would play for the competition. It's a fun game win or lose as long as the lose is a good lose not one because of someone. I got no problems like I said before I'm nice till the point of when they are making the same mistake over and over again then I say something to them. When someone is doing terrible I'm not going to say its okay and hold their hand in rank and if being toxic is saying they are doing bad then they would suspend majority of the people in this game. If you really think people need help cause they are saying to someone they are doing bad then you really need a life check cause people arent going to do that they are going to hold you responsible for your actions.

Deep Terror NamiOct 22, 20142 votes

I just want you to know that since I already don't value your opinion, I didn't read any of that reply. Have fun ranting to yourself.

BigPoppy519Oct 22, 20141 votes

I couldn't care honestly what you think cause your points are pointless and since you responded to all this means you care and I don't really care about you at all. If you don't like it then report me I don't care just being honest lol

BeatzBoyFTWOct 22, 20142 votes

So you're saying being toxic is the only final answer in winning most losing matches? ~~Kay~~

BigPoppy519Oct 22, 20141 votes

What I'm saying is that people can't take critisism at all, if I say you are doing bad this game and you are then you have nothing to say about it cause its true. Is that really being toxic or just being honest if you can't take it then why play rank? I have bad games people say way worse and I take it cause its true for that game, am I going to report you for it no. When I play well and people say that and other crap then yes I will. It's when people who play bad and can't take it that they are and can't be criticized about it is what's frustrating due to riots motherly hand holding.

JubbinautOct 22, 20143 votes

It's not a binary state between honesty and toxicity. There's no correlation between the two whatsoever. They're entirely independent of each other. The truth value of a statement is irrelevant to whether or not that statement is toxic.

DrCyanideOct 22, 20142 votes

It's not a binary state between honesty and toxicity. There's no correlation between the two whatsoever. They're entirely independent of each other. The truth value of a statement is irrelevant to whether or not that statement is toxic.

This a million times over! This is the "truth" that every toxic person conveniently wants to ignore.

You can always choose to tell someone they're bad or need to work on something in a way that isn't toxic, making it your problem if you're toxic.

BigPoppy519Oct 22, 20141 votes

So saying that they are doing bad in a game is toxic to you lol okay buddy stop making me laugh

JubbinautOct 22, 20141 votes

Actually, what he's saying is that it seems like the way you are telling them that they're doing poorly is toxic. And that there are ways to say it that are not toxic.

I don't see how that was confusing, his post was pretty clear and straightforward.

BigPoppy519Oct 22, 20141 votes

well when it comes to trying to help them and they say f off most the time then I just stop trying to help cause most people don't want help

JubbinautOct 22, 20141 votes

"Stop trying to help" doesn't mean "Start telling them they're bad."

And, again, you're reading things in a post that aren't there. I didn't say anything about "trying to help," and neither did Cyanide. I said there are ways to inform a person that you think they're playing poorly that aren't toxic.

NatsuDragneel612Oct 22, 20142 votes

Either you have crap luck or your version of telling someone their wrong involves insults and being a bit of a jerk to them. There is nothing wrong with informing a player about something they might be doing wrong and telling them ways to improve. I have had team mates tell me I am doing something wrong and then explain what I should do, I have listened and then improved. Now if I get a team mate who is insulting me and calling me names then I won't listen to that person and I will report them, and then even if I was doing something wrong I will now continue to do because instead of a team mate helping be I had abuse hurled at me. See the difference now. I have also been in matches where people who think they know best are actually full of it and are the ones who are doing badly. Now if you got reported after nicely explaining something to a team mate that sucks, but if you got reported because you were a jerk to a team mate, you deserve it plain and simple. This is a game that revolves around team work, and no team ever wants a jerk on their team, they want people who are nice, who even when pointing out something a player did wrong they do it in a way that the player doesn't feel like crap afterwards.

BigPoppy519Oct 22, 20141 votes

the thing is that they usually don't listen and say f off so i don't say anything on how to improve anymore.

NatsuDragneel612Oct 23, 20141 votes

Maybe that's because you are abusing them instead of talking to them. I would tell you the eff off too if your "criticisms" involved you calling me names or worse. Even if you had a point about someones play style it falls on deaf ears when you be a jerk about it. Also most people take constructive criticisms, so more than likely you have just been a jerk about it all thus no one listens to you and tells you to eff off.

Kim Jong OomOct 22, 20142 votes

angry OP downvoting everyone who disagrees with him :^)

BigPoppy519Oct 22, 20141 votes

lol downvoting downvoting downvoting

BakedLotionOct 22, 20141 votes

I don't report no matter how bad you do. I report you if you're being annoying. I don't care if you curse or swear all day. I can take it LOL. (Who can't?) Oh wait this community is butthurt even about words. But anyways, I don't report for much. I find it completely useless and never report unless you were just being annoying.

BigPoppy519Oct 22, 20142 votes

lol for being annoy what do you use verbal abuse? Seriously though people here can't take criticism at all they hear one bad thing and its reported and that person gets a warning and for the people who should get reported nothing happens riot here is broken

FoxymillionOct 22, 20141 votes

i hope you get perma banned GOD that would be just perfect

BigPoppy519Oct 22, 20141 votes

For being honest that someone is doing bad in one game. You must be one of those kind of people who can't take criticism at all and report for one small bad thing said. I can't wait till you get in the real world you will be crying all night lol

FoxymillionOct 22, 20141 votes

im 19 yo and doing just fine if lived in 4 diff states and pay my own bills i bet you are still in school

BigPoppy519Oct 22, 20141 votes

and yet you didn't say anything about not being able to take criticism lol

XenohazOct 23, 20141 votes

I have bad games too. I also don't need or want someone else to point out my badness. I can notice it myself, just like pretty much everyone. If someone else has useful advice beyond "omg report our fail [my champion] lol gg uninstall noob" then I'll listen, and I may do what they suggest. If someone just tells me I'm doing badly, when it's painfully obvious even to me that this is the case, you're damn right I'll get annoyed. Who wouldn't?

Schwifty NinjaOct 23, 20141 votes

i remmember this one time, you could've not hit enter and put evil chat into my game, that started drama lovers to do the same and no longer concentrate on the game, but no you had to ignite the arguments