The new 4 strike ban feature is bad for the game.

AtolexChromite·Oct 4, 2015·4 votes·1,871 views

TLDR: I feel like Lyte should resign, his methods aren't working and they are gonna trash the game in a years time at this rate. no new players, all smurfs, none spending money in game.

4k smurfs are being sold an hour, people aren't reforming, they just buy smurfs with money that could've been spent on skins. I'll keep saying what I've said since season 1, you guys are treating the symptoms, not the cause. Bans for verbal abuse do nothing but make more smurfs with angst.

28 Comments

JamareeOct 4, 20153 votes

What is the cause and how do we prevent it?

LampsundaeOct 4, 20152 votes

{quoted}

What is the cause and how do we prevent it?

Rito needs to get rid of all chat, and stop being whiny about ttrash talk in a videogame. Unless someone ddos's you for beating them, it doesn't matter, chat bans are enough.

AtolexChromiteOct 4, 20151 votes

I wholly agree.

JamareeOct 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Rito needs to get rid of all chat, and stop being whiny about ttrash talk in a videogame. Unless someone ddos's you for beating them, it doesn't matter, chat bans are enough.

But it has been shown over and over that trolls just transition to feeding at that point, and then there are people who just go afk after flaming, honestly, it isn't enough.

AtolexChromiteOct 4, 20152 votes

Toxic actions are catalyst for toxic behavior, and while it wont remove all toxic speech, being more lenient on verbally abusive players (since there are in game features to mute them) and cracking down on toxic actions (intentional feeding, refusing to cooperate with your team i.e grouping to push or team fight because they are butt hurt, stealing buffs and such out of spite, and general trolling) would alleviate a lot of the stress on solo queue. Some people are bad people, I myself have been guilty of being verbally abusive, but when I have games without trolls, I'm not verbally abusive. The current system only coddles trolls and their childish spiteful behavior.

OhBoyItsaMegamanOct 4, 20154 votes

But losing the game is also a catalyst for toxic behavior. Does that also need to be removed in order to prevent your temper tantrums?

If you get verbally abusive when your someone on your team intentionally loses, I'm betting that you also get verbally abusive when someone on your team unintentionally loses.

XinZhao2WinNhaoOct 4, 20152 votes

{quoted}

But losing the game is also a catalyst for toxic behavior. Does that also need to be removed in order to prevent your temper tantrums?

No we just need to switch the culture to believe that playing is for fun and improvement not for winning. It's sad whenever I hear people say "ranked is just for winning. if you don't want to win don't play ranked." NOPE. RANKED IS FOR IMPROVING YOUR SKILLS AND FOR FUN AS WELL AS OTHER GAME MODES. IF YOU ONLY PLAY TO WIN YOU'RE USUALLY (NOT ALWAYS BUT USUALLY) ONE OF THOSE TOXIC PLAYERS PUTTING PEOPLE ON TILT FOR DOING BADLY AND JUST BEING A DICK ABOUT YOUR TEAMMATES MISTAKES.

If you get verbally abusive when your someone on your team intentionally loses, I'm betting that you also get verbally abusive when someone on your team unintentionally loses.

No, I just get annoyed when I know I'm being intentionally trolled. It's not about losing, it's about the fact that someone is wasting their precious time to intentionally ruin my and other peoples fun that makes me annoyed

AtolexChromiteOct 4, 20151 votes

Lets be honest, the MMR system is also broken. They need to add a buffer to reduce lp loss when you don't have a bad KDR but everyone else on your team does, you end the game 4/2/8 every other person is 1/11/3, how is 20 lp loss across the board fair? And for the opposite as well when you get carried by your team, 5 people, split the lp 5 ways and weigh the gain based on champion performance. Intentionally losing and losing because of unintentional reasons are two different things, to use associative property in your argument is a fallacy.

PoskeOct 4, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Lets be honest, the MMR system is also broken. They need to add a buffer to reduce lp loss when you don't have a bad KDR but everyone else on your team does, you end the game 4/2/8 every other person is 1/11/3, how is 20 lp loss across the board fair? And for the opposite as well when you get carried by your team, 5 people, split the lp 5 ways and weigh the gain based on champion performance. Intentionally losing and losing because of unintentional reasons are two different things, to use associative property in your argument is a fallacy.

I hope you understand thats bad idea on so many levels..

OhBoyItsaMegamanOct 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Lets be honest, the MMR system is also broken. They need to add a buffer to reduce lp loss when you don't have a bad KDR but everyone else on your team does, you end the game 4/2/8 every other person is 1/11/3, how is 20 lp loss across the board fair? And for the opposite as well when you get carried by your team, 5 people, split the lp 5 ways and weigh the gain based on champion performance.

People already complain about small differences between your MMR and LP ("I'm in my promos to Silver V, everyone in my game is Silver III, why do I have to play against Silver III people to prove that I belong in Silver V?" or "I win two games for +14 LP each and then lose one game and get -26 LP"). What you're suggesting would increase that gap. It would make your LP more loosely correlated with your MMR.

JamareeOct 5, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Toxic actions are catalyst for toxic behavior, and while it wont remove all toxic speech, being more lenient on verbally abusive players

So we need to give lighter sentences to people like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj_Sx7o-Lb4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBgKVQJlodg

cracking down on toxic actions intentional feeding

True, this should go without saying

refusing to cooperate with your team i.e grouping to push or team fight

And you can tell this is different then just someone who is refusing to group for the good of the team how? Sometimes grouping up ISN'T the best way to win games.

stealing buffs and such out of spite, and general trolling would alleviate a lot of the stress on solo queue.

How is any system supposed to just know this how?

Some people are bad people, I myself have been guilty of being verbally abusive, but when I have games without trolls, I'm not verbally abusive. The current system only coddles trolls and their childish spiteful behavior.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBgKVQJlodg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj_Sx7o-Lb4

And people like this excuse arrrrrrrrre?

AtolexChromiteOct 5, 20151 votes

How does an automated system know you're being toxic, you cant communicate sarcasm through text. Maybe a system that records something the length of a vine, instead of a report. unlock screen and record 10 second clip. but for the most part there are a lot of players who refuse to group for one reason or another, might as well be 4v5 and its annoying, they don't cooperate, 4 people want to baron, hes off farming the jungle. you can be warned that you were reported and submit a defense ticket explaining why you were doing what you were doing, and tribunal shouldn't allow people who are below plat to judge, simply for not knowing enough about the game.

XinZhao2WinNhaoOct 4, 20154 votes

{quoted}

What is the cause and how do we prevent it?

The cause is in part Lyte's system which seems to make reports, especially false ones, very easily accessible. Every time someone says "report ____" it just puts other people on even more of a tilt and makes people mad rather than pipe down. You might say Dota2 has a lot of toxicity but I still think League has more. I love the game of League and that's why I'm here, but I gotta say, League community is the only community where the League trolls and ragers are self-righteous about what they do and has the audacity to ask for reports on their victims. At least Dota2 trolls know they are trolling.

Another cause of the problem is the belief that you play only to win in League, especially in ranked but sometimes even in Normals. Even in ranked this is not a healthy mindset. You play ranked LoL to improve not to win. If your only goal is to win you will tilt and be negative

AtolexChromiteOct 4, 20151 votes

The right mind set is important, but having one person, or a duo, screw you over is akin to being ra*ed. You have no choice in your fate and you know they aren't going to FF, you're stuck there against your will, with no escape, you afk you get punished. You can usually tell in pre game, but again, it's not fair for me to lose lp to dodge. I should be able to vote to kick them 3v2 vote majority, with no penalty for them or our team. "but players would use that as an unfair advantage" feeding 15 kills in 10 minutes is an unfair advantage, so is 4v5.

JamareeOct 5, 20152 votes

{quoted}

The cause is in part Lyte's system which seems to make reports, especially false ones, very easily accessible. Every time someone says "report ____" it just puts other people on even more of a tilt and makes people mad rather than pipe down. You might say Dota2 has a lot of toxicity but I still think League has more. I love the game of League and that's why I'm here, but I gotta say, League community is the only community where the League trolls and ragers are self-righteous about what they do and has the audacity to ask for reports on their victims. At least Dota2 trolls know they are trolling.

Another cause of the problem is the belief that you play only to win in League, especially in ranked but sometimes even in Normals. Even in ranked this is not a healthy mindset. You play ranked LoL to improve not to win. If your only goal is to win you will tilt and be negative

Oh wow the first legit response so far....surprising o_o

On a serious note, I agree with you on the first point, this automated system is dumb and bad. While most people can just play and be false reported with no problems because the net before you actually start getting in trouble is large, an automated system isn't right because the situation does change. I have AFKed, flamed back, and insulted people who started on me, and I have been reported for it, but still never warned because other then that, my record is clean.

As for the second part, meph, I play normals for fun, but in ranked, it should be a mind set of play to win and strictly that, if you wanted to have fun, you should have went to normals, not to ranked where your playful and self destructive nature can negatively affect your allies.

XinZhao2WinNhaoOct 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

As for the second part, meph, I play normals for fun, but in ranked, it should be a mind set of play to win and strictly that, if you wanted to have fun, you should have went to normals, not to ranked where your playful and self destructive nature can negatively affect your allies.

You play ranked to improve and try your best. You will lose 50% of your games and if you play only to win you will likely be upset whenever you lose (which is 50% of the time) and become negative.

JamareeOct 5, 20152 votes

{quoted}

You play ranked to improve and try your best. You will lose 50% of your games and if you play only to win you will likely be upset whenever you lose (which is 50% of the time) and become negative.

Yes, but I don't want someone first timing a champion in ranked because they saw a pro do it and thought it would be fun, doubt you would either.

XinZhao2WinNhaoOct 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Yes, but I don't want someone first timing a champion in ranked because they saw a pro do it and thought it would be fun, doubt you would either.

I honestly dont mind

JamareeOct 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I honestly dont mind

Stronger man then I.

Koraji yoOct 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

You play ranked to improve and try your best. You will lose 50% of your games and if you play only to win you will likely be upset whenever you lose (which is 50% of the time) and become negative.

That's just not true. Some people don't become naturally salty or upset because they're playing to win, but it doesn't look like they are, or they get upset because they do lose. That's kind of a silly assumption.

I mean if you play to improve, you don't automatically get salty because you got less kills this game as top Irelia as your last game playing Irelia top. Failing to meet your expectations for playing == becoming negative and satly. Atleast not for everyone.

BrohoofOct 4, 20152 votes

{quoted}

What is the cause and how do we prevent it?

Honestly? League. League is the problem. The structure of the game's design brings out the worst in all of us.

JamareeOct 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Honestly? League. League is the problem. The structure of the game's design brings out the worst in all of us.

All MOBAs do this. You put five random people together with various lives, days, and etc, you are gonna have a cesspool.

Sythriel DrakenOct 4, 20151 votes

I agree that lyte should resign, but only because he acts like the toxic people he is trying to ban. "oh you said fuck once in a game and were reported?. Banned for 14 days cause you're toxic". "You're feeding intentionally and were warned? Chat restriction! (because that makes sense)"

What needs to happen is that there needs to be more positive persuasion. I'm a psych student and if there's a reward for reforming, not being toxic, being more positive, etc. then I'll start making sure my behavior matches that. Right now, there's just a system of punishments without rewards and that's not healthy from a psychological perspective.

it's no wonder that everyone is toxic with this system in place.

JubbinautOct 4, 20153 votes

Huh. Interesting.

If you're a psych student, you should probably have learned that - by and large - neither positive reinforcement nor negative reinforcement are even remotely as effective as a combination of both.

And... just as a quick point of curiosity: if there are no rewards for positive behavior, why did I receive a skin, an icon, and multiple IP boosts explicitly for my positive behavior record?

Sythriel DrakenOct 4, 20152 votes

First off, positive reinforcement affects better than negative reinforcement due to the person's pleasure center of the brain. People react better to pleasurable things than negative things.

Second, IP boosts have not been a reward since I started playing for positive behavior back in october, only icons that do not cost the company any money, and are completely worthless in game.

JubbinautOct 4, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sythriel Draken,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=YBT5lrAE,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2015-10-04T23:48:33.901+0000)

First off, positive reinforcement affects better than negative reinforcement due to the person's pleasure center of the brain. People react better to pleasurable things than negative things.

According to what I've read, negative reinforcement is actually better for sparking a behavioral change. Positive reinforcement is better for maintaining a behavioral change.

And using both is better still.

Second, IP boosts have not been a reward since I started playing for positive behavior back in october, only icons that do not cost the company any money, and are completely worthless in game.

Since they started issuing positive rewards, they've done 3 cycles of IP boosts, an icon (which actually would cost more than IP boosts - since they have to pay the artist to design the icon, whereas IP is already an earnable resource), and a skin.

Once the new Tribunal hits, with its mix of both positive and negative cases, there will be even more than there already are.

nerak23Oct 5, 20151 votes

If you're a psych student, you should probably have learned that - by and large - neither positive reinforcement nor negative reinforcement are even remotely as effective as a combination of both.

When it comes to positive and negative reinforcement I have a unique view of this, being a business consultant. Almost every time I start to give a review: the problem of what to do about people who don't follow the rules comes up first.

I tell them that they need to draw a line and come down hard on the ones not doing as they should, you can add things later. The next thing I tell them is to give some kind of reward to people who are doing what they are supposed to do.

Then set up reward systems to encourage good behavior. When you add these 3 components together it gets results. It is never as simple as this and yet it Is as simple to start with this, if you get what I am saying.

So what I am saying is this: Riot is setting the groundwork for a good foundation. What they are starting to do is exactly as it is usually drawn up. We need the punishment system to start to get the game on the right and successful path.

AtolexChromiteOct 10, 20151 votes

Just made a new account to have fun on, went into ARAM, got a 4 man premade two of which were afk half the game. all of which trolled. The Fizz would sit in base and wait for easy kills after we already got aced under our turret. I removed some letters from the summoner names, not here to call them out and too lazy to completely change each name.

BabyTuck joined the room. 10K joined the room. Fore Walker joined the room. 1Ki: report ekko Frre Walker: gg all Froe Walker left the room. BayTuckoo: report fizzafk iLote: gg 10i: toxic player please BabyTckoo: dude BabyTckoo: you BabTuckoo: were BabyTckoo: afk 1Ki: right Irua DON: no BabyTuckoo: yeah 10i: the 27 and 13 fizz 10i: was afk 10i: that makes sense Irua DON: fizz is not afk Babyuckoo: two major teamfights you were sitting in base Not a zero left the room. Irka DON: ekko is just play suck THE NAME WAS SE left the room. GrpMid: ekko so toxic 1Ki: thank you GrupMid: muted after 5 minutes 1Ki: report please PolitalBunny7 left the room. GrpMid left the room. Xerrd: got to go with majority rule <<<<<< (this one, look at this garbage, not even on my team, nothing was said in all chat and nothing toxic was said in game only "report fizz afk please") >>>>>> Ira DON left the room.