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Garen deserves some love

Laughing Fish··33 votes·6,321 views

Garen is the most heroic champion in the game, and by far the most just. He spins his way to victory, and gives the forces of evil a taste of Demacian Justiice. But the mighty hero hasn't gotten in love for awhile now. His ult, while handy, it far less efficient and powerful then many other champions. Take Darius for example: While Garens ult (the most badass ult in the game) may have a higher base damage, it deals magic damage which can be mitigated, whereas Darius deals true damage. Plus, Darius is capable of increasing his ults damage, something Garen is incapable of doing. And the kicker: Darius's ult has a soft reset on every kill, whereas Garens goes on full CD even if his ult doesn't actually hit the champion. Now, I know there are other factors, such as Garen is far tankier than Darius, but overall garen's ult needs some work done.

One other thing: Garen needs a legendary skin. He is one of the most classic and oldest champions in the game, yet he has never received a legendary skin. His counterpart, Darius, got a dunkmaster skin. I think Garen should receive a linebacker skin.

TL;DR: Garen's Ult needs an update. Preferably a CD reduction on kill. Garen also needs a Legendary skin.

I leave you with this awesome gif of Garen spinning to win and than using his Q

https://33.media.tumblr.com/723e71a6e9305dc586aef85d3cabbbab/tumblr_mv38b105UM1snej3oo1_500.gif

65 Comments

Captain Aishi12 votes

please, we all know that if garen gets a legendary skin, it's going to be "ballet teacher garen"

0GameDos01 votes

omg that would be to awesome

Doctor Dyment7 votes

Oh you poor naive fool. Garen doesn't need love. He is fine the way he is. The only thing he needs, is for his "DEMACIA" to be heard by everyone playing.

Silents42916 votes

Holy shit could you imagine every time he ults a global "DEMACIA" plays and the shock wave affect from his ult went across everyones screen, along with a camera shake.

52847732_DEL14 votes

TwistedFate : Woop dee doo walking back to mah mid line

The camera shakes wildly like a mad bull with the screams of Demacia at top lane, while the remaining pulses of Garen's ult covers mid lane

TwistedFate : darius stop feeding

Laughing Fish1 votes

That would be glorious!

A Superb Villain6 votes

But he gets plenty of love, just not from Riot.

Jamnon11 votes

The only love Garen wants is the love he will never get from Katarina .

junglerboy166 votes

Suddenly it all makes sense! Garen masterminded the lore retcon so that he could rewrite Kat in as his actual love interest, not just a hinted relationship! Wizard Garen Illuminati confirmed.

aaronconlin2 votes

Wizard Garen... Too soon item 3070

Stephenizgod5 votes

I think that he could use some work, like possibly a Ult CD reduction for starters. Maybe his W's passive could include bonus health? That one is asking for a bit too much but i feel we can either play up his Fighter role or his Tank role, not both and i for one enjoy Tank Garen a lot more the Fighter Garen. I like both and both are incredibly fun, i just like running into 5 people and seeing them blow 3-4 ults on me only to not even take out 1/6th of my life lawls.

terkmc1 votes

Garen is already nigh unkillable late game with his W and you want it to include health also?

Stephenizgod5 votes

No he is very killable late game, he is unkillable mid game.

junglerboy162 votes

As long as he can run away before getting completely killed, he will never die. 400 HP5 too good!

Champion Skin1 votes

No Tank is unkillable late game because damage simply scale harder (AS X AD X Crit) vs (Armor X HP) and damage items are usually more slot efficient so they are better when fully built

(unless maybe it is Alistar with full tank build and his ult on)

Silents4294 votes

I just want his ult buffed. Whether CDR reduction or damage boost. It is just so crappy in comparison to other executes in the game.

AFK Push1 votes

I don't want it to be another true damage execute though. We already have an ad true damage execute Darius, and a ap true damage execute Chogath. His needs to stand out more, maybe it scales with crit so not only his E benefits from it. Or idk, have it scale with something other than ap altogether, so he can actually get something out of it.

Silents4291 votes

Doesn't need true damage just increase how much it scales off of missing health and take a jab at the cooldown for it. Boom.

Noraver4 votes

I'm a Garen main, and I will say, his ultimate is super wonky. I can't tell you how many times I've done literally zero damage because of a cheese Hexdrinker purchase. Not to mention, his ultimate is on SUCH a long cooldown..

Level 1: Once a leap year Level 2: Birthdays only Level 3: Once a month

It bothers me that champions like Riven can exist. She builds 100% offensive items and gets a huge shield for it, can spam Q (When the cooldown starts as soon as she casts, making her able to cast it again right after it's finished with enough CDR), has a MUCH lower cooldown on her ultimate, it's physical, AoE, and gives her a MASSIVE AD boost.

Darius may be easier to compare to him than Riven, but the point is, Garen is simply outmatched by every other champion with an execute. His ultimate is nothing but a tank-shredder, but it can't even do that, because it's magic damage, and only kills an HP-stacked tank when they're below 15% HP.

All in all, I'd like to see Garen get a few tweaks. Maybe a physical damage ultimate? If it kills someone, it actually shows EVERYONE the massive screen-distortion thing? (Would like that) Maybe that shockwave deals damage to people hit by it like Jinx's ult? Maybe when absorbing damage with Courage/each auto attack increases the amount of spins he gets from Judgement? (Increases gameplay/decision-making)

There are literally tons of ways to give Garen some love, but hey, Garen's never going to get buffed. Because he's a champion for new players. He's "too easy to play". Ahem, Shyv/Renekton/Riven/Other diving tanks.

SerBlaise3 votes

I think the magic damage is fine. Sure it isn't true damage, but you would have to remove the 'execute' nature if it was going to be true. Plus the fact that it's magic damage means it's harder for the enemy team to itemize against his whole kit (since q and e are physical). Ive had a lot of success with top lane garen and a lot of misery against garen. he is a suprisingly strong duelist, especially with a little cdr.

I'd be down for a legendary skin tho. why not? :P

Remlap12233 votes

I think that a stun or AOE on his ult, plus a lower cooldown would work.

Edit: DEMACIA!

SheikaRei2 votes

Obviously you are a huge lover of Garen. Which is perfectly fine, I am a huge lover of Shyvana (DEMACIA!). Garen, I think is an awesome champ as he is. But, you are right, his ult does need an update. But there are other champs that need it worse, like Poppy for example. I have always been deterred from Poppy cause her voice doesnt match her art (Aesthetics are important to me). I'm not saying your love for him is misplaced or anything. You go do what Garen does. All Im saying is be patient, Garen will come back to true ultra badass form soon enough. I just want a Shyvana Ult Skin already TT_TT. Anyway, you have a good time and maybe I'll see you on the Fields of Justice. Sheika Rei - out summoner 12

Laughing Fish2 votes

http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Oh+garen_6995f2_4311985.jpg

The Soulforged1 votes

{quoted}

Obviously you are a huge lover of Garen. Which is perfectly fine, I am a huge lover of Shyvana (DEMACIA!). Garen, I think is an awesome champ as he is. But, you are right, his ult does need an update. But there are other champs that need it worse, like Poppy for example. I have always been deterred from Poppy cause her voice doesnt match her art (Aesthetics are important to me). I'm not saying your love for him is misplaced or anything. You go do what Garen does. All Im saying is be patient, Garen will come back to true ultra badass form soon enough. I just want a Shyvana Ult Skin already TT_TT. Anyway, you have a good time and maybe I'll see you on the Fields of Justice. Sheika Rei - out summoner 12

Pls no! Riot is going to gut her and say job well done D: Poppy is fine where she is because nobody complains about her for nerfs D: Pls don't compensate her!

Silents4291 votes

I hope she burns in hell.

jk

Seriously though poppy is a toxic anti fun champion that really needs to get reworked.

The Soulforged1 votes

{quoted}

I hope she burns in hell.

jk

Seriously though poppy is a toxic anti fun champion that really needs to get reworked.

While she has antifun lategame, leading up to that, she has strong weaknesses that can be abused.

Silents4291 votes

Right. That's a horribly flawed champion then. She is going to reach that late game toxicity regardless of how much she gets stomped, unless you were to end the game before she got an item or two.

The Soulforged2 votes

{quoted}

Right. That's a horribly flawed champion then. She is going to reach that late game toxicity regardless of how much she gets stomped, unless you were to end the game before she got an item or two.

Someone seems like they can't handle a Poppy.

Silents4291 votes

You know a champion is balanced when the only thing people can say for countering her is end the game before her late game.

The Soulforged1 votes

{quoted}

You know a champion is balanced when the only thing people can say for countering her is end the game before her late game.

Getting ahead is all you need to do. Any lategame champion is going to be ahead lategame, and Poppy is one that is normally behind by at least 50 cs compared to the others at around 20 min in. Abusing this weakness and picking up dragons and other objectives is all that is needed to beat her.

Silents4291 votes

Congrats that's not counter play, and doesn't mean her kit isn't anti fun.

You mean, The way to beat her is to simply be ahead of her?? WHOA! Look guys I know how to beat Zed LeeSin Nidalee WE SIMPLY STAY AHEAD OF THEM!

Riot has been quoted saying if anyone ever makes Poppys early game work they are going to nerf her. And having a purposely shitty early game and a stupidly strong late game is not a reason for a champion to be in their current state, it's not a form of "counterplay" , And does not make the game enjoyable for either player.

She is next to come out with a rework, and I look forward to seeing Poppy as something that isn't a toxic joke.

Rito Jericho1 votes

{quoted}

While she has antifun lategame, leading up to that, she has strong weaknesses that can be abused.

Strong weaknesses like 1v1? Remember that Poppy's ult causes her to only take damage from ONE person: her target. All you need to do in order to counter that is throw a champ at her who can handle her in a 1-on-1 fight. Her ult becomes completely useless in any scenario that doesn't give her another target to negate all other damage. So, I repeat, just make sure one of your teammates can handle Poppy in a 1v1 and then see if you can get them that 1v1 you need for her to die.

KING OF MASKS1 votes

Mechanically Garen is a flawless creation. He needs no changes. An ult CD reduction would be nice but it's hardly necessary, and buffing him now only invites nerfs later on down the road (as the balance team dictates).

A legendary skin would be super neato. Need a concept first though. Paladin/Arclight Garen or something?

Laughing Fish3 votes

I think Ult CD only if he kills the target (like CD is cut in half if the target dies).

WeFlyNoLie1 votes

Nope, leave him alone. I don't want him to be buffed only for people to cry OP and then get him gutted.

In all honesty though, he's fine as is. He has his own matchups and if you play him when its appropriate to do so, he works just fine.

People need to stop comparing his execute to others like Darius. Yes Darius does true damage with his ultimate, but he also needs 5 AAs or Qs in order to deal the full strength of his ultimate. Garen can just walk up whenever and use it. Darius has mana costs, Garen does not.

Riven's ultimate scales with HP missing and AD, the opponent needs to build armor to counter Riven. (which counters the rest of her damage) This skill is also technically a skill shot, so it can miss. Garen's ultimate scales with missing HP and deals a flat amount of magic damage. Opponents would need to build both Armor and MR to mitigate his damage whereas against Riven, all of her damage is mitigated by armor. Garen's ultimate is a targeted ability and because it is a channeled ultimate it rarely misses unless sight of the target is lost. (Even if they flash while Garen is channeleing, it still completes) Also, because Riven's ultimate is a projectile, it can be blocked by things like Braum's shield and Yasuo's Windwall. Garen's ultimate can only be blocked by things like Morgana's Black Shield or Hexdrinker passive.

There's reasons behind the way Garen's ultimate works. If you start lowering the CD of it he will be too oppressive in lane. Adding more damage like AoE will make him too powerful. Giving him a reset is also a bad idea. Unless you weren't here for it, Darius used to have an ultimate reset on kill on release. Remember what happened to him? He was heavily nerfed. People don't like playing against champions with resetting skills. See Katarina

I see too many topics like these created and commented on by people that barely even play the champion, and that's fair, but at least get a few games under your belt and learn the matchups and mechanics of a champion before you start calling for buffs.

Garen is perfectly fine the way he is. There are other champions who need help a lot more than him. He does what he's supposed to. Deal reasonable damage, execute priority targets and soak damage as a frontline fighter.

I'm not opposed to a legendary skin though. I would definitely buy the football linebacker skin concept that's been going around lately.

Champion Skin1 votes

Well not like Riven can miss with the AD increase (which increases the damage/shield of all her abilities even her passive) and it also increase the AoE of her Q and W... It is more then an execute it is also a huge steroid...

The only thing I can see with Garen ult is possibly slightly lowering the cooldown at rank 3 and possibly rank 2... because well Garen's ult is a big deal of what he brings to teamfights (especially if he builds only tank items meaning his Q and E don't deal all that much damage)

Oh and getting five stacks on with Darius isn't that hard... Auto attack + W + Q + Auto attack... and then one more auto attack or ability thrown in there... or figure that 4 is enough

XxAnsemTheWisexX1 votes

This needs a TL; DR.

Laughing Fish1 votes

Added one

XxAnsemTheWisexX1 votes

Merci beaucoup, and I agree with you there.

ProjectRay12

honestly, while a lot of this is true, Garen is retardedly strong right now due to his passive buffs and overall damage/tank.

Silents4296 votes

The passive that requires you not to be in combat?

The damage that hits a wall late game?

terkmc3 votes

Okay no, not that im agreeing that Garen is retardedly strong, his passive helps a ton, he can be pushing top, and they will have to bring 2 champion to kill him because of his tankiness and incredibly easy escape, and if he escape even with 10% hp, he will be back in 15 second to try again. And his W means that with the same build, he gets more tank than anybody else, meaning he can leave space for damage item. Quite frankly late game Garen is absurdly immortal while dealing decent damage, but the main problem is that thats all he does, be immortal and dealing decent damage, with no utility beside being immortal and dealing okay-ish i guess damage and no way to actually put that immortality and decent damage to use, he cant impact a fight as hard as other specialized bruiser or tank. So from a statwise perspective, Garen is in fact retardedly strong with good damage/tank ratio, but from a gameplay and ability effect perspective, he isnt retardedly strong because he is just a ball of stat that doesnt do anything

Silents4291 votes

Well no, He doesn't heal insanely until late game, which honestly doesn't matter that much, just means he doesn't have to recall, it's not like he does it in the middle of a team fight and somehow re-enters it.

And his damage is lackluster unless people stay inside his E, his Utility is a 2.5second silence.

He isn't immortal, just people don't play against him right.

terkmc1 votes

point 1: how many time have you stopped and recall after winning teamfight instead of taking objective because of low hp, Garen doesnt need to. Also because Garen is the kind of champion that cant be dislodged from lane, late game he can literally be 24/7 on a lane now matter how hard you repelled him, short of actually killing him, and to chase and kill Garen is like chasing and trying to kill singed v0.75. It also makes him immune to sieging/poke comp because he would regen everything back.

point 2: "Unless" this is exactly my point. On paper his damage/tank is good if you consider ratio and all, but in practice he rarely gets to use them because his kit offer nothing else

point 3: the silence is also my point, demonstrating that he is a ball of stat with nothing else Really you sound like you are agreeing with me here

Silents4291 votes

Point 1. Did you seriously just try to relate Singed and Garen? Chase Garen you waste your time because he is a tank, you don't chase a tank, you don't have to chase him unlike chasing Singed you slowly die, except Singed is built around split pushing and proxy farming, which forces you to HAVE to chase and deal with him. He isn't any more immune to poke then any other tanky character in the game, he just does it faster. Anyone with a Warmogs can do the same thing.

And why is it viewed as a plus to stay in lane constantly? Not only is he losing out on lane pressure since in order to stay in lane constantly you need to be pushed at your tower, but you are losing out on items, while your enemy laner gains his strength, and Garen doesn't hold up without items.

Point 2. Garens primary damage is his E, and he doesn't do any damage unless the person is a mage or adc, or he builds a second AD item. Its so incredibly weak to anyone with any armor.

Point 3. How is he a ball of stats? Garens main role is to charge to the back line and take down the ADC or Midlaner, his entire kit is setup around this

  1. The Q for the silence, Slow break and Movement speed.

  2. The W for when he hits the middle of the enemy to reduce CC and Damage

  3. E For when they are attempting to run, and anyone trying to stop you will take damage. (This is also counterplay since his full combo takes a good several seconds to finish)

  4. And finally his execute ult, to finish the target off.

He isn't a ball of stats he does what he was meant to, and does it well. Calling out his strengths doesn't mean his weaknesses don't exist.

terkmc1 votes

The reason why I relate him to Singed is because they both do the same thing when people are trying to chase him: Waste their time. A Singed getting people to chase him is doing dps, but mainly to waste the enemy time while your team get some objective, similar to Garen, both being incredibly hard to chase and will be most likely solo pushing a lane to call people to chase them

Staying in lane forever is a plus because he doesnt HAVE to stay in lane forever, but he have the OPTION to do so, giving him more tools to work with

His E actually have good ratio and base 120+110% AD. This is Wu Kong ultimate 200 (+ 110% AD). Same ratio loosing 80 base damage, but consider that this is a normal abiility vs an ultimate. On paper his damage is in fact very good, but unlike Wu Kong, he has a tons of trouble getting it to the enemy, which was what i was trying to argue. I wasnt saying Garen is retardedly strong, i was saying that Garen is one of those champion that is really strong if you only look at his ratios on paper

The reason I call Garen a ball of stat is because i look at it this way Passive: HP regen Q: Damage speed pseudo tenacity and silence W: Defense and Tenacity E: Damage R: Damage Aside from his Q, he is a ball of stat. If Q is neutralized, he is a sitting ball of stat that cant use his ball of stat because his only utilty and deliverance tool is easily neutralized

Silents4293 votes

The reason why I relate him to Singed is because they both do the same thing when people are trying to chase him: Waste their time. A Singed getting people to chase him is doing dps, but mainly to waste the enemy time while your team get some objective, similar to Garen, both being incredibly hard to chase and will be most likely solo pushing a lane to call people to chase them

No. Singed forces people to chase him or they risk him split pushing or proxy farming.

Garen is not a split pusher, and doesn't excel at proxy farming, or escaping.

Staying in lane forever is a plus because he doesnt HAVE to stay in lane forever, but he have the OPTION to do so, giving him more tools to work with

You have a grave misunderstanding of the massive disadvantage you are letting build up if you refuse to leave lane, Most champions can stay in lane, But it isn't until level 11 when minions don't stop his passive(By then mid game is starting) so him getting to stay back isn't any better then any other champion. And you say "tools" like this opens up options, its just him sitting in lane, their isn't much of an advantage, unless he were a champion that did a lot of damage with starting items.

His E actually have good ratio and base 120+110% AD. This is Wu Kong ultimate 200 (+ 110% AD). Same ratio loosing 80 base damage, but consider that this is a normal abiility vs an ultimate. On paper his damage is in fact very good, but unlike Wu Kong, he has a tons of trouble getting it to the enemy, which was what i was trying to argue. I wasnt saying Garen is retardedly strong, i was saying that Garen is one of those champion that is really strong if you only look at his ratios on paper

Then why the hell are you trying to argue with me about it? I literally said

And his damage is lackluster unless people stay inside his E

No reason for you to make paragraphs telling me what his damage ratio is, And he is strong beyond ratios, for the reason I mentioned above with his role in team fights.

The reason I call Garen a ball of stat is because i look at it this way Passive: HP regen Q: Damage speed pseudo tenacity and silence W: Defense and Tenacity E: Damage R: Damage Aside from his Q, he is a ball of stat. If Q is neutralized, he is a sitting ball of stat that cant use his ball of stat because his only utilty and deliverance tool is easily neutralized

I already explained exactly what his role in the game is, and how every single one of his abilities properly aids in that, if you can't see it then I am not going to bring it up anymore.

Sir Yamazuki1 votes

{quoted}

Okay no, not that im agreeing that Garen is retardedly strong, his passive helps a ton, he can be pushing top, and they will have to bring 2 champion to kill him because of his tankiness and incredibly easy escape, and if he escape even with 10% hp, he will be back in 15 second to try again. And his W means that with the same build, he gets more tank than anybody else, meaning he can leave space for damage item. Quite frankly late game Garen is absurdly immortal while dealing decent damage, but the main problem is that thats all he does, be immortal and dealing decent damage, with no utility beside being immortal and dealing okay-ish i guess damage and no way to actually put that immortality and decent damage to use, he cant impact a fight as hard as other specialized bruiser or tank. So from a statwise perspective, Garen is in fact retardedly strong with good damage/tank ratio, but from a gameplay and ability effect perspective, he isnt retardedly strong because he is just a ball of stat that doesnt do anything

Hello, welcome to every single top lane split pusher. You are forced to send 3 people and cc to stop tryn, if you send 1, he tower dives then takes your base, Nasus does the same thing, Riven does the same thing etc, all Garen can do is just be annoying and only can dive if he's ahead, the other champions I mentioned don't have to be ahead to dive 1v1s while split pushing, they just need the damage. Garen also has no escape, his Q is on a very long cool down when running away, it's not like a certain other champion where the cool down ticks when you activate, he has to attack something for the cool down to start which takes a while on its own. He's very easy to catch, just difficult to kill 1v1 if he built tanky, but remember, he also takes 5 hours to take towers by himself if he built tanky unlike Tryn who can tank as much as Garen due to ult while taking towers much much faster and having an actual escape+gap closer, same for Riven and other top laners.

He's also not immortal late game, no tank really is because the damage dealers will be full build. It takes a jinx a few seconds to shred through 7k hp and ~300 armor.

Crett2 votes

{quoted} The damage that hits a wall late game?

There's a way to break that wall. item 3031 item 3031 item 3031 item 3031 item 3031 item 3035

terkmc1 votes

You mean item 3068 item 3068 item 3068 item 3068 item 3068 item 3068 item 3068 Even his trinket is sunfire

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