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The Honor System needs to include this!

The Chøsen One··0 votes·490 views

Hello everyone,

Today I'd like to give some reasons as to why Riot (more specifically, Riot Lyte), should make an addition to the Honor system. Please note, I'm not talking anything revolutionary or something!

First of all, the honor system works currently so that:

  1. People that don't honor much get more "valuable" honors
  2. Playing with strangers and being honored by them is more valuable than being honored by friends

However, I think something else needs to be added to this too. People that are "highly honored" should have a heavier weight, or value, with whomever they give honor to. This is because positive players should be more inclined to recognize and reward other positive players. However, I will acknowledge this brings up the issue of nepotism (in which positive players try to abuse their "power" and honor their friends more often). But I don't see this as an issue since giving honor to friends is already "degrading one's own value of his or her own honor points".

I'd love to hear people's feedback on this!

Edit: In addition, I think that playing with certain friends should allow the "honor ratio requirement" to be more lax because then that person would be invariably punished by just playing with his or her friends! This is especially important since Riot just started the Party Rewards system, and so that'll become an "honor trap" in which people won't be able to gain honor or their honor will decay!

3 Comments

Daen2 votes

The Honor system is a really difficult discussion, in my opinion, because there are so many completely system-breaking problems with it. I see a lot of people discuss adding different rewards, making them easier to obtain, etc., but all of those core problems still remain. Here are some of the issues I consider to be significant:

  • Honor has zero checks and balances
  • Honor is nearly impossible to obtain in many scenarios
  • Honor value calculations don't match the actual numerical display of the Honor obtained
  • Honoring premades/friends makes no sense, as a general concept

Basically, it's inaccurate and actually incentivizes cheating for it in some scenarios. I really don't think changes will make much of a difference to Honor until these basic issues are resolved, especially the first two.


That being said, to an extent I agree with you. I think that the rewards from having high Honor should feed back into the system, further incentivizing people to use it. I consider the fact it's possible to honor friends to actually be a problem with the system, so that wouldn't really be a factor at all provided it were changed.

Honestly, it really just depends on what Riot wants the system to do. If they just want it to be a fun informal recognition system, fine. If they want it to actually be a compelling social tool, it needs to be regulated such that only people that actually deserve it are rewarded through the system.

The Chøsen One1 votes

{quoted}

The Honor system is a really difficult discussion, in my opinion, because there are so many completely system-breaking problems with it. I see a lot of people discuss adding different rewards, making them easier to obtain, etc., but all of those core problems still remain. Here are some of the issues I consider to be significant:

  • Honor has zero checks and balances

How does it have zero checks and balances?

  • Honor value calculations don't match the actual numerical display of the Honor obtained

Of course, because otherwise it would be "easier" for people to figure out how to abuse the system, and then it might turn into a milestone issue, which is something they want to avoid.

  • Honoring premades/friends makes no sense, as a general concept

What I meant was that if you play a lot with friends, you shouldn't be "punished" for it by having your honor-to-games ratio diminish.

Basically, it's inaccurate and actually incentivizes cheating for it in some scenarios. I really don't think changes will make much of a difference to Honor until these basic issues are resolved, especially the first two.

How do you find it to incentivize cheating? I'm curious.

Daen1 votes

How does it have zero checks and balances?

Good question. This kind of depends on your viewpoint, but from a systematic perspective I consider Honor to be the opposite of reporting. In a perfect (and way over-simplified) world, you report people for being bad and you honor people for being good.

If we look at these systems, there is one key difference: reports are checked for validity. People aren't just punished when they reach a certain threshold of reports, they are punished when they receive a certain threshold of true reports. As far as I'm aware, Honor doesn't function this way at all; if you reach a threshold of Honor value per game, you receive the appropriate Crest. No Tribunal, no Rioters looking over report logs, nothing checking reports to see if they are actually valid, etc.

Of course, because otherwise it would be "easier" for people to figure out how to abuse the system, and then it might turn into a milestone issue, which is something they want to avoid.

While I see what you're saying, I also think the negatives here outweigh the positives. With the system the way it is currently, everyone's Honor is visibly worth exactly the same despite being completely different under the hood. My Honor could be worth 0.4 of someone else's Honor, but they look exactly the same to the player receiving it and other players looking at his/her profile.

It's kind of like the difference between LP and MMR, to be honest (a whole 'nother can of worms), where you could be Diamond 4 but playing consistently with Gold/Platinum level players due to your MMR. A layer of ambiguity might help with edge abuse cases, but ultimately everyone has to deal with this unclear and relatively muddy system.

What I meant was that if you play a lot with friends, you shouldn't be "punished" for it by having your honor-to-games ratio diminish.

This is a somewhat limited viewpoint (not yours, just in general). Basing a positive reward on a per game ratio is, frankly, ridiculous; it encourages people to beg each other for Honor, and it values other people's consistency over your own. I understand that consistency is important, but making it a constant race against how other people want to use the system just does not feel compelling.

I don't think it should really end up feeling like a punishment at all. It should be a reward to receive Honor, not a punishment to not receive it. This one is a little complex, because it's really hard to make a system like this have value without making either premade play or solo play more enticing.

I just don't think it makes sense to honor people with whom you're in a premade, because you wouldn't be in a premade with them if you didn't think they were good to play with. This gets into the territory of what Honor means to you, so it's really subjective.

I personally would like to see Honor as a regionally recognized prestigious reward, something bestowed on pillars of the community that make it a point to interact with people in fantastic ways. The current implementation honestly feels to me like it's either unreasonably impossible or just rewards people for not being toxic, which really isn't the point in my mind.

How do you find it to incentivize cheating?

In the current implementation, it is almost impossible to get a Crest without either cheating or playing specific game modes. How often do you see someone with a Crest nowadays, and how awesome do you generally consider him/her to be when playing with him/her?

When Honor first came out, back when it wasn't almost impossible, there was rampant abuse of the system. People were constantly asking to trade Honor, honoring everyone in the game, queuing exclusively with friends and honoring each other every game, etc. It's a lot easier to get high Honor if you beg for it and try to squeeze it out of your friends rather than just being awesome and playing the game, which is why I consider it to incentivize cheating.

Think of piracy, for example. Quite a few studies have shown that many people pirate content not necessarily because they want it free but because it's easier to pirate than it is to legitimately obtain. What is some of the most pirated content on the internet? Game of Thrones? To my knowledge it was HBO exclusive throughout 2014, and in order to get a subscription you had to have a TV plan or some sort of bundled internet package. That's a pain in the ass, and it is a lot easier to just go to a torrent site and click "gimme".

What I'm trying to say is, in a lot of ways it's harder to use Honor in the way it's meant to be used than it is to just dick around with it or abuse it. This is a systematic problem, and no amount of incentives or rewards will change that.

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