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Banned for BEING FLAMMED

Cthulhy··1 votes·1,958 views

Ok, so i had 2 bad games today, both games had one thing in common besides me being in them... the team flamed during champion selection, during the whole game and after game chat lobby... I did not capture the whole speech during the game and i only have mine because this time riot sent me my chat... The thing is, i was toxic in the past (about when i started playing this game during season 1 and season 2) but i changed alot during the years while havin tons of fun...

And today, for some reason, i have this 2 games and i get flamed like i've never seen and my attitude was simple, i muted the toxic player... and the game went on and the flame went on and i tried to defend myself and asked for surrender as soon as it was possible because the game was just so toxic i didn't really cared about winning or losing...

PEOPLE ARE ABLE TO REMOVE THE ENTIRE FUN OF THIS GAME BY BEING TOXIC - FLAMING (using all kind of negative words) FEEDING INTENTIONALLY (on this specific game i had one wukong who simply went 1v5 and flamed&blamed the whole team) and most important BY TURNING THE TEAM AGAINST ITSELFT DURING CHAMPION SELECTION! (the game starts here, you chose your champions and your team and you play to win... some people rather flame instead of doing this)

Now, i have my chat (only my words are visible) and i am willing to post them here, UNDERSTAND THAT I DONT APROVE OF MY ATTITUDE, it is not the best and that i am 100% sure of...

... but i got a 14 day ban... and i just wonder... what did riot do to those 5 players i met today ? are they 100% suspended from the game ?

I play this game for ages... I spend my money on skins and runes and i love wasting a few hours some days having fun finding new ways to play this game and having fun with my friends (mostly i just play with them as a 5 man premade...)

So yeah, my behavior is not the best i know... i have made grave mistakes in the past (things i changed ALOT ever since more and more people started joining the League) ... But now i am still reading my chat... and i get a 14 day ban for asking a surrender ? for asking wukong to stop feeding on purpose ? For not agreeing with the pick and making a personal comment about disliking X champion after getting flamed for no reason during champion selection and during the first 40 seconds of the game ?

I just want someone to shed some light on this event of mine... I spent hours in the past sending entire reports with videos and screenshot of situations that involve really toxic people... and today i get banned, for a conversation that had: ZERO SLURS, ZERO INSULTS... The worst thing i've said during this last game was probably this:

(im missing the timers unfortunatelly)

"i have no idea how to play support nidalee just gave up a freedrake just mute the kid sivir please focus just ff"

or this perhaps:

"flamer wukong :P flame more... 4 on me wukong you will die... wait sivir we cant its pointless they have baron gg wp report wukong for perma flaming wukong you are just trolling"

I did said this after last fight

"only one trying to protect our team is me alone"

and sivir (or annie, do not remember) did aknowledge my comment at the time...

Anyways... I did mute our Nidalee after 30 seconds or so... Wukong was not muted because i was focusing on 2 things (like always): having fun and winning the game with my team...

... and i got banned... so please, someone shed some light for me... perhaps i am really being to toxic... if that's the case, im simply quiting league of legends... because what i see is people telling me to go fuck myself game after game after game... and me getting chat restrictions out of nowhere and this time a ban period...

Oh, and just one last thing... I still love this game, i just don't want to play it with people (besides some close friends) anymore...

(Riot removed this from a discussion board... i am actually thinking they just want me to quit the game instead of trying to help out like i've been doing for all these years)

20 Comments

Kãtãrinã3 votes

You retaliated. that is grounds enough for a ban. End of story. if you flame back your just as bad as the guys who started it. Post the logs maybe. all i know is for a 14 day ban to happen a rioter themselves looks at the case and decides weather or not you should get one.

technosavage1 votes

that logic makes me cringe.

Kãtãrinã2 votes

That logic is what riot uses not me. I'm explaining how they see it

technosavage1 votes

and riot gives zero damns about us so nice logic bro.

Tryndubmere1 votes

I literally have no clue why flaming is a bannable offense when there is a mute button.

Deep Terror Nami2 votes

Because generally the damage has already been done. It doesn't matter who the intended target it, it's a problem for everybody, and even the instigator has the same right to not be flamed as much as the initial victim does.

THE OTHER PLAYER IN THE GAME I WAS REPORTED FOR WAS WAY MORE TOXIC THAN ME. HOW COME I WAS PUNISHED? Simply speaking, retaliation is not an acceptable or justifiable behavior. An argument between two players can easily create a negative experience for the rest players in the game with you. Regardless of the other player’s actions, this does not justify your own behavior. You alone are responsible for your actions within the game. If you encounter a toxic player like this, the best option is to simply report their behavior and move on.

Jubbinaut1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Valkyrie Witch,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=QOIPdNet,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-07-25T07:34:40.052+0000)

Because generally the damage has already been done. It doesn't matter who the intended target it, it's a problem for everybody, and even the instigator has the same right to not be flamed as much as the initial victim does.

I prefer to think of it as protecting everyone else. The flamer makes things suck for the other 4 players on his team. The retaliator makes things worse for the remaining three players.

Kãtãrinã1 votes

He is quoiting a rioter or the riot FAQ not using his opinion.

Jubbinaut1 votes

Well, yes, in the quote box. But I wasn't referring to what he'd quoted, I was referring to what he'd stated.

Even then, I'm not trying to dismiss or devalue any of what he said, merely expressing my own interpretation of the system's intentions based on what I've read from Lyte and WookieeCookie.

Cthulhy1 votes

{quoted}

Well, yes, in the quote box. But I wasn't referring to what he'd quoted, I was referring to what he'd stated.

Even then, I'm not trying to dismiss or devalue any of what he said, merely expressing my own interpretation of the system's intentions based on what I've read from Lyte and WookieeCookie.

I've been reading alot of cases to try and make something out of the 14 bans ... what i found out was unpleasent... I've seen people that actually flame and are toxic in ways no one understands getting the same results i've got...

Is riot putting me in the same bag of players that say things like "i hope you die with cancer soon" or "you are a fucking faggot and you should not even be born" ?

Does Riot understands that this is a game with actual people behind the computers and that sometimes the diference between a good day and a bad day is something so little that, when in game, can turn the tide of dozens of players coming with contact with ONE SINGLE misbehaving player ? (notice i dont say "toxic player")

I am far more concerned with the fact that i got a ban for either calling some one a kid or wanting to forfeit while the teams i play with are simply toxic in all kind of manners... I never reported anyone for telling me to go fuck myself, simply because i've seen so much worse that i really dont care about negative language... we are all over 18 years old aren't we ? If you want to keep the game demographics under control, perhaps check out games like world of warcraft or some other more famous multiplayer based games and learn from what they do...

Personal note: I compare League with Team Fortress alot because i like both games, but Team Fortress has 2 things League will never have untill Riot finally wakes up from a few points they keep forcing: Team Fortress is unbalanced and Team Fortress is FUN no matter the odds...

Jubbinaut1 votes

{quoted}

I've been reading alot of cases to try and make something out of the 14 bans ... what i found out was unpleasent... I've seen people that actually flame and are toxic in ways no one understands getting the same results i've got...

Is riot putting me in the same bag of players that say things like "i hope you die with cancer soon" or "you are a fucking faggot and you should not even be born" ?

There's this idea that a friend of mine once wrote a post on in the old PB forums. Here's the gist:

Punishments are factored based on two things: the frequency of the behavior, and the intensity of the behavior. Most people (such as yourself) tend to focus only on the intensity aspect - thus the questions like "what I didn't wasn't as bad as him, so how come we both got 2-week bans?"

The part that's neglected, there, is the frequency aspect - especially now. It's possible the system could detect and punish a player for a single instance of hate speech or death threats - Low Frequency, High Intensity. On the other hand, a player who's consistently mildly toxic over a long time will also earn a ban - High Frequency, Low Intensity.

So, is Riot putting you in the same bag? In a sense, yes - because a lot of mild toxicity is just as destructive overall as a little bit of severe toxicity. And arguably even more so.

Does Riot understands that this is a game with actual people behind the computers and that sometimes the diference between a good day and a bad day is something so little that, when in game, can turn the tide of dozens of players coming with contact with ONE SINGLE misbehaving player ? (notice i dont say "toxic player")

Of course they understand that. That's why even low intensity toxicity is considered punishable - not because they're so terrible in and of themselves, but because of the wider effect they may cause.

Tryndubmere1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Valkyrie Witch,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=QOIPdNet,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-07-25T07:34:40.052+0000)

Because generally the damage has already been done. It doesn't matter who the intended target it, it's a problem for everybody, and even the instigator has the same right to not be flamed as much as the initial victim does. Simply speaking, retaliation is not an acceptable or justifiable behavior. An argument between two players can easily create a negative experience for the rest players in the game with you. Regardless of the other player’s actions, this does not justify your own behavior. You alone are responsible for your actions within the game. If you encounter a toxic player like this, the best option is to simply report their behavior and move on.

As soon i see someone is toxic, I mute them until they calm down, if they don't calm down, they stay muted. Literally that simple.

Jubbinaut1 votes

{quoted}

today i get banned, for a conversation that had: ZERO SLURS, ZERO INSULTS...

You tell us this, and then give this quote as evidence. [emphasis mine]

"i have no idea how to play support nidalee just gave up a freedrake just mute the kid sivir please focus just ff"

I realize that a single contradiction like this doesn't necessarily mean much, but it does make it hard to trust in what you're saying.

Perhaps, instead of cherry-picking, you could just post the whole log verbatim?

Deep Terror Nami1 votes

THE OTHER PLAYER IN THE GAME I WAS REPORTED FOR WAS WAY MORE TOXIC THAN ME. HOW COME I WAS PUNISHED? Simply speaking, retaliation is not an acceptable or justifiable behavior. An argument between two players can easily create a negative experience for the rest players in the game with you. Regardless of the other player’s actions, this does not justify your own behavior. You alone are responsible for your actions within the game. If you encounter a toxic player like this, the best option is to simply report their behavior and move on.

EL HAMSTERO1 votes

it is punishable to ask for someone to be reported. if they deserve a report then report them. it is defined as abuse to try to get everyone else to report them too.

Cthulhy1 votes

Ok, so i read some of the comments and 2 things that i understand: i got banned because i retalliated... so, what i said against those "GET CANCER AND DIE" or "I HOPE ALL YOUR FAMILY DIE" was so horrible that i was punished with a 14 day ban ? ... Ok, probably i deserve it... anyways here's the chat log, it only has what i said (for some reason):

" muted next time pick a sated champion sivir i have no idea how to play support nidalee just gave up a freedrake just mute the kid sivir please focus just ff fed vlad he just won a fight 1v5 oh wait no wukong wasn't there gj, helping the team ain't a good thing im guessing 1/1 vayne was the threat ok annie :& he jumped on me with 10 hp im a support and i was low 3 bot again i told you i didn't knew how to support always the same "i cant X" "its ok" then perma flame the whole game i have been trying my best now its hard to keep up with the flame third drake flamer wukong :P flame more... 4 on me wukong you will die... wait sivir we cant its pointless they have baron gg wp report wukong for perma flaming wukong you are just trolling only one trying to protect our team is me alone ow they baron like i said, only one even trying to defend the team is me alone we have wukong annie and nida wukong is going full assassin "

Support is indeed my worst role and i have been practicing like hell, my team mate Sivir was tilting so hard it was just unbearable to watch... she was AFK on lane talking back against the Nidalee i had muted by the start of the game... we simply lost because both Nidalee and Wukong players were both suiciding all the time (going 1v5 and blaming the whole team) and the flame was so hard no one on our team was even paying attention to the game... all i tried was to snap out our mid laner Annie and Sivir out of the tilt by telling them to focus...

Regarding this 2 comments:

[{quoted}](name=EL HAMSTERO,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=QOIPdNet,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-07-25T09:57:25.401+0000)

it is punishable to ask for someone to be reported. if they deserve a report then report them. it is defined as abuse to try to get everyone else to report them too.

I had no idea, i always did this because i simply use the tribunal and once a Rioter even told me to ask everyone for a report so that they can have a full report... This was a long time agoo...

{quoted}

You tell us this, and then give this quote as evidence. [emphasis mine]

I realize that a single contradiction like this doesn't necessarily mean much, but it does make it hard to trust in what you're saying.

Perhaps, instead of cherry-picking, you could just post the whole log verbatim?

There's the whole report, as i said i would provide it if needed... But i have to ask, calling him in the third person by kid (in order to point out Sivir should not listen to the Nidalee) is considered a slur or an _insult _?

Nidalee said this during champion selection "I hope you get cancer and your family dies"

I am just asking for an answear to this question: "Should i quit league of legends?" Because i got banned for retaliate at this kind of flaming... Oh and i dont even mention when i play a ranked game and after that i mute a really toxic player just to find him on the next 3 or 4 games completely ruining the experience of those games... I don't think i've done anything wrong on the other games i played... But ok... im guessing it all makes sense...

Jubbinaut1 votes

{quoted}

just mute the kid sivir please

The above is the only actual insult I see, but the entire chat reads like a textbook example of how to be negative. Which doesn't help anything whatsoever.

There's the whole report, as i said i would provide it if needed... But i have to ask, calling him in the third person by kid (in order to point out Sivir should not listen to the Nidalee) is considered a slur or an _insult _?

I'd consider it an insult, rather than a slur. Mostly because slurs have negative connotations in any context, and "kid" - in the correct context - bears no negative connotations. This, however, was not that context.

I am just asking for an answear to this question: "Should i quit league of legends?"

If you feel it's necessary, then yes. League should be an enjoyable experience. If you aren't enjoying it, find something you do enjoy, and play that instead. I'm hoping you don't, but if you do feel the need to find another game, then good luck!

Cthulhy1 votes

{quoted}

If you feel it's necessary, then yes. League should be an enjoyable experience. If you aren't enjoying it, find something you do enjoy, and play that instead. I'm hoping you don't, but if you do feel the need to find another game, then good luck!

I rather say i'm just tired... I've been speaking through e-mail with 2 rioters and they've pointed me to a Player Behavior Specialist (i am still waiting from his/her response) and this is happening because i explained the how i felt about this decision of them and how it affects me out side the game (the real life lol)... The only reason i play this game is because i really enjoy it and i really love it and i actually try to keep the on /all chat "gl & hf" atittude because i know how people play when they don't even enjoy the game... Of course this becomes a problem when they start enjoying tormenting you and spitting you the way they seem fit (faming)

{quoted}

The part that's neglected, there, is the frequency aspect - especially now. It's possible the system could detect and punish a player for a single instance of hate speech or death threats - Low Frequency, High Intensity. On the other hand, a player who's consistently mildly toxic over a long time will also earn a ban - High Frequency, Low Intensity.

So, is Riot putting you in the same bag? In a sense, yes - because a lot of mild toxicity is just as destructive overall as a little bit of severe toxicity. And arguably even more so.

Ok, i made this comparsion to one of the rioters: A kid shouts and yells at school the whole time, another kid brings a gun the school, points it at the people of the school and put their lifes at risk... Are they equally punished ?

Now back to my case, remember how i started this thread ? I UNDERSTAND I HAD A BAD DAY AND I WAS TOXIC , im not here trying to redeem myself from that fact, i just have no idea why i get a 14 day ban and a perma ban threat when all i did was "letting off some steam" during a game that had 4 people of my team flaming beyond normal... and i was trying to defend 2 of them in order to keep them focused on the game and not the flame... Riot says this is ban worthy so i believe them and i am "ok" with it...

... But, and to finish my point of view, i did ask the 2 rioters that spoke with me to give me a instant mute option before the game even starts, because i have no time to deal with people that are, most of the time, trying to give me a bad game experience instead of a good one... Not to mention i am simply afraid to even type anything at all and i'll be reported for no communication... Another reason for me to quit League, a team oriented game where you have to fight your own team before the game even beggins...

Jubbinaut1 votes

{quoted}

Ok, i made this comparsion to one of the rioters: A kid shouts and yells at school the whole time, another kid brings a gun the school, points it at the people of the school and put their lifes at risk... Are they equally punished ?

The concern I have with this comparison is that nothing you can do in a League match could put the lives of other players at risk. A similar - but perhaps more appropriate - comparison might be this:

One kid shouts and yells at school the whole time. Another kid threatens the lives of fellow students and tells a teacher to kill themselves. Are they equally punished?

And the best answer I can give is: Probably, yes, with a suspension or possibly an expulsion. A school cannot afford to allow disruptive students to remain disruptive. If they cannot teach the student to avoid those disruptive behaviors, then they are forced to remove the student from others. Riot is in a very similar position.

Now there's certainly exceptions to this. We could argue about mitigating factors until we're blue in the face - and probably agree more often than not - but as a "default" position, I stand by my statement.

Now back to my case, remember how i started this thread ? I UNDERSTAND I HAD A BAD DAY AND I WAS TOXIC , im not here trying to redeem myself from that fact, i just have no idea why i get a 14 day ban and a perma ban threat when all i did was "letting off some steam" during a game that had 4 people of my team flaming beyond normal... and i was trying to defend 2 of them in order to keep them focused on the game and not the flame... Riot says this is ban worthy so i believe them and i am "ok" with it...

I'd like to offer some insight into the functions of the system:

It takes a fairly significant percentage of reported games to build a case. It used to require being reported in 12-25% of your games. I don't know what it currently requires.

In general, a single "bad" game isn't likely to warrant a punishment. There are exceptions (as indicated my Frequency/Intensity post), but your case doesn't seem to fall within those exceptions.

This means that it's extremely unlikely that this particular game is the only game that led to your punishment. However, the way the system is designed, it only sends the one game - usually the game that triggered the case. So it's more than likely that - while this was certainly indicative of little more than a bad day - your bad days occur somewhat more often than normal.

There's nothing specifically wrong with that, and I make no judgment on it (I have my fair share of those, and then some), but it's still enough to be cause for concern to Riot. There's some really solid advice in this thread that, I think, will help you ensure that you never run across the Player Behavior systems again.

Because honestly? I don't think it's that bad. A 2-week ban seems excessive for this. But then, I don't know your history with the system, nor do I know what your other games may have looked like. So my opinion isn't particularly meaningful.

Not to mention i am simply afraid to even type anything at all and i'll be reported for no communication...

It's worth noting that - at least since Lyte started at Riot - no one has ever been punished for not communicating. It's effectively a null report. If you feel the need to remain silent, that's a perfectly acceptable approach, used by many of my friends.

Cthulhy1 votes

{quoted}

It's worth noting that - at least since Lyte started at Riot - no one has ever been punished for not communicating. It's effectively a null report. If you feel the need to remain silent, that's a perfectly acceptable approach, used by many of my friends.

This is exactly what makes me sad... this game is supposed to be about working with other people, and it's hard... anyone with slight professional experience on big teams projects knows how much it takes to keep it up with one entire team... And this is why i always liked league...

I think i've made it clear in this threat that i was toxic in the past, years agoo, when i was studying to create some time-line, and the thing is, back then no one cared about anything at league, it was a very small game with nothing special at all... after some time i started falling in love with some characters, falling in love with the game itself we could say... i remember i got one chat restriction once back then and it lasted for AGES to go away... since then i never had any problems untill today (at least concerning myself and not others)

Now, like i asked one of the rioters speaking with me, a mute button that's able even before he game beggins is the best thing i could ask for... because i want to play the game and not deal with people... And if you don't trust me, why don't try this on PBE ? mute people and make them only be able to communicate through pings (its just an example out of thin air)... Im not giving a solution, i know, but please, understand that this is about the community as a whole and not just me...

... me myself am going on with my life and never returning to league untill i find something that makes the game worth playing again... and honestly... i wasted enough money on this game to say i bought it, but it's a free game where some spend money and get banned, and others are not banned and are freelly charming everyone with their toxicity levels...

Oh, and im not sure if i said this, but i was reported by the Nidalee... the player that was so toxic that she made one of our team members leave for a while... unfortunatelly i do not recall good games that could keep me remembering them like i remember this awfull game with this awfull player...

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