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Dear Riot Games

6lack Iverson··3 votes·1,678 views

From the large percentage of gamers whom do and do not play your game, we have a message for you.

You are Pathetic.

Not to undermine you achievements of course. I commend your large esports scene, your creative, overpriced skins, and your substantially large player base. Your goods are great and I hope you can continue down this path. They are what draws everyone to the game, of course. That and the addicting rush of winning games and climbing rank.

But the bads.... oh the bads. Not bads in terms of player skill, mind you. The bads that every. single. person. that has played league knows about. And there are plenty. Let's try and hit the nail on the head, shall we?

First off, I'm BraddyApples(DarkRaiiiiiii). I've played league on and off since the start of season 2. Unfortunately, I don't play frequently, not anymore and the highest elo I had climbed too was Silver I back in season 3 I believe. I had entered my promos for gold several times, but this was when Riot was having server problems with Comcast.... for a long time. I had managed to dodge out of all 3 from the connection dropping and booting me from the champion select screen every time. I had stopped playing league for a year and had come back recently, and my my, the community has changed. For the worst. I play casually, playing a game or 2 every other night or so, but these are the things I've noticed from my year long break.

The community was always bad, I know that. League of legends is a game that breeds toxicity because of it's competitive nature. I understand that, however, that is no excuse for not punishing players that so frequently abuse the summoner's code that used to be important to the game. Perhaps I am unlucky, and get a large amount of trolls and afkers because of my lack of ranked play. I strictly play normals because the game is meant to be played for fun and since I have absolutely no intention of trying to become a professional gamer; ranked is meaningless. I see a lot of posts of how you need to be thick skinned and how you have to work past the feeders and afkers. You have to better yourself as a player since you have no control over the 4 others on your team and that it's part of the experience, but frankly, that's an excuse. League of Legends is a video GAME. It's sole purpose should be to have fun while playing the game, but instead it feels like it's meant to be a hardcore lifestyle.

You hear it often. That since the game mode is normal, they don't have to really try and win. What. It's not like ranked matters either. It's virtual points and stats in a video game that means nothing in reality. Maybe if you tried to go pro, but only a small, small few will ever make it there. League players suffer the same problems we see from other competitive games. The mindset that being good at a video game somehow adds to your value as a person.

Let's get something straight. Video Games are a waste of time. Some develop few skills, but in a different environment than reality. That's a fact. Sure, you can bring up the argument that any form of entertainment is a waste of time and that League can create a social environment, but they are pretty weak points.

At the end of the day, we know why riot doesn't punish these players. It's simple. Riot is a business and they are paying customers. From that perspective, it would be stupid to punish players that pay for your overpriced goods. It's all about that profit. It's the same things companies like Ubisoft and EA do. The product and community might not be the best, but it's the best ratio for money.

Now, let's talk about the product. League of legends itself. Let's be honest, the game is riddled with bugs. The servers are frustratingly unstable and the client is hosted on the worst program available; Adobe Air. With Riot's supports system, you're lucky if you get a response after a few days. Even after that wait, the response is more than likely going to be a pre-typed message that ignores your actual problem. How can such a huge game have such terrible technical support? It's almost embarrassing for Riot if you think about it.

But it's okay, since League of Legends is a free to play game and isn't pay to win, right?

Wrong.

Contrary to the popular assumption that League of Legends isn't pay to win, the system riot has in place starkly goes against that notion. It isn't impossible, but it nearly is. Here's why. Spending money gives you diversity in your play, whether it's for more champions or for more rune pages. IP, the currency you get from playing games is spent on Runes, RunePages, Champions, and now runepages. There are counters in league of legends as well as a variety of roles to fill. Everything you can buy with IP is EXPENSIVE. I mean really expensive. If you played 3-4 games a night, you probably wouldn't be able to get every champion in the game, especially with Riot releasing champions every few months.

The definition of Pay-to-win is spending money to have advantages over players who have not spent money. That is very true in League of Legends. Of course, you could beat the opposing laner, champion, team, etc. by having more skill than them with your champion, but there are two factors in this. Champion counters and Champion Knowledge(something people forget about.). Some champion's kits counter other champions, that's just basic League knowledge. If you've only been able to unlock a few select champions because you don't have money or don't want to spend it, you're at a disadvantage against someone that has a large champion pool and can counter your picks.

As far as champion knowledge, it's simple. Someone that has spent a good bit of money on the game to unlock a variety of champions has a feel of how all those champions play. Sure, you can get to know the feel of a champion by playing against them, but you don't really know their effects, passives, or ability ranges unless you play them. You can look them up, sure, but it's a lot easier to remember what a champion's abilities do after you play them rather than reading paragraph after paragraph of ability description.

I've ranted long enough about this. Thanks to everyone who read through this thread and I'd love to hear your input down below.

As far as league of legends though, sorry, but it's getting uninstalled again. It's just not fun to play anymore. The mood in game is frustrating and serious. It's a video game, guys. Chill and have fun.

EDIT: I came to the forums here to try and see if the community was aware of the issues the game and the company was having. I was hoping atleast some of the community would see it. Instead, I was met with the exact opposite response I was hoping. Most of the comments below immediately went to name-calling, bashing, elitism, and general toxicity. It fits perfectly with the community ingame. Unfortunate as it, the players of League of Legends aren't any better than say the players of CoD, Battlefield, Etc, etc. It's a poor excuse, but players don't seem to be able to take any criticism to a game they play so frequently and religiously.

38 Comments

Deep Terror Nami8 votes

From the large percentage of gamers whom do and do not play your game, we have a message for you.

You are Pathetic.

You begin by immediately claiming to speak for a large number people when in reality you can only speak for yourself, and follow up by calling them (Riot) pathetic? I doubt anyone is going to give you the benefit of the doubt and finish reading this wall of text.

6lack Iverson1 votes

That's fine. It immediately turns away anyone without an open mind. It was meant for that purpose and for an attention getter.

Eleshakai5 votes

{quoted}

That's fine. It immediately turns away anyone without an open mind. It was meant for that purpose and for an attention getter.

No actually, it immediately turns away any sensible individual because it proves that your argument is not going to be sensible. You got my attention, and then made me not trust the reliability of the source material.

If you were a reputable journalist or writer making this claim, then you could get away with a stunt like that because you'd have a reputation for well thought out works. But you're a random poster on the LoL forums and making a statement like that just ensures you have no credibility to make people want to read what you right.

The only people who will read it will either be people simply looking to laugh at you for your illogical and poorly thought out arguments or masochists who are unable to stop themselves.

Whether you actually HAVE poorly thought out arguments is besides the point(especially since I don't know one way or the other)... that's what most people who read your post are going to be looking for. I just skimmed very briefly to see if anything caught my eye and then came to the comments to see who had commented.

6lack Iverson1 votes

No, actually it just turns anyone away who's too fanboy for LoL and Riot Games. Any sensible person would see that and read, wow, there's saltiness right there, but it's not rage, just disappointment. Why? Then proceed to read the rest of the thread. I'm not some journalist or writer, I have no reputation. I'm just a gamer, one that hopes to get into the industry relatively soon.

I can already see your toxicity though. Go straight into throwing insults. Great job being above the crowd.

DrCyanide4 votes

And those that try to read it see someone who's oblivious of the Player Behavior team's actions. Unless I missed something, you didn't mention anything that they've done or tried to do, simply skipping to accusing Riot of not doing anything.

You can take issue with the two-week bans, the chat restrictions, or the leaver buster, and argue if they're effective or not. But your post doesn't even acknowledge that these systems are in place. Trying to reprimand Riot for not doing anything doesn't make you seem well informed on the situation, and calls into question the credibility with which you made your opening statement. Furthermore, you are reprimanding Riot for certain people getting too worked up over the game and wanting you to try harder, which doesn't make much sense.

You likewise seem to have not read any of the NA Server Roadmap posts. I remember around the time the North Bridge was complete there were a few posters that mentioned their ping dropped by about 30, but Riot has stressed that the whole process is about improving the stability of the connection (less packet drops/ping fluctuations). Furthermore, it's likely this is a far more expensive undertaking than simply making an East Coast Server, as many have suggested doing in the past, and is a prelude to migrating the servers to a more central location.

Your critique of the free to play system also seems flawed, as players can consult with friends, watch videos, and read the wiki to get up to speed on champions. I only own two of the 450 IP champs, but that doesn't hinder me playing against them, because I have other ways to learn what they do. I similarly have a small pool of champions, just passing 30 champions recently. I had one champion purchased for me as a gift, but that's it. Your point on the cost of Rune Pages might be valid, if not for the 2-for-1 Rune page sales that happen once or twice a year, leveling the playing field there too.

I'm really having a hard time seeing how your post is informed. Personal opinion, OK, but when you try and present your info as if you speak for a larger group than you do it ends up detracting from your point.

6lack Iverson1 votes

Sorry, but it seems you've misinterpreted a lot of my post or plain drew wrong assumptions. Let's try and debate why those systems with the toxic community aren't working. First off, seems that the two-week bans don't happen often enough. It's rare for people actually get banned anyway. I've had several people threaten to AFK if they don't get certain things they want(Usually buffs or for you to camp their lane), saying that they do it constantly because the ban system is so lenient. Whether it's true or not, I don't know, but if players can actually threaten that then it merits looking at.

Leaver buster doesn't really work. If anything it works against the players that drop connection or have a problem with their computer. Most people that AFK are there, they just move around in fountain or tab into league to move their character a bit. It doesn't really work as a system.

Chat restrictions? I feel that pushes people just to AFK rather than BM or to spam pings and troll in other ways (Like follow the jungle around in the jungle and ignore their lane, trying to last hit the big minions from them)

I'm sorry, but it still doesn't level the playing field with the P2W system. Players that spend money still have an advantage over players that don't. It might not be very prominent, but it's still there. If you want an indepth description, here http://www.reddit.com/r/dotamasterrace/comments/2snxe2/why_league_of_legends_is_paytowin/.

powerbats2 votes

{quoted}

No, actually it just turns anyone away who's too fanboy for LoL and Riot Games. Any sensible person would see that and read, wow, there's saltiness right there, but it's not rage, just disappointment. Why? Then proceed to read the rest of the thread. I'm not some journalist or writer, I have no reputation. I'm just a gamer, one that hopes to get into the industry relatively soon.

I can already see your toxicity though. Go straight into throwing insults. Great job being above the crowd.

Translation anyone that disagrees with me and doesn't share my messianic beliefs is obviously a Riot fanboy and isn't intelligent enough to see my genius or wisdom.

Yeah we've seen your kind here enough oh great messiah trying to show us non intellectuals the truth behind it all. In reality though you're just another self righteous egotistical know it all that thinks your vision is the only one that matters and that you know better than anyone else.

As far as getting into the industry with that attitude, good luck since any reputable company will look at what you've posted and throw your application in the trash. Because they won't want someone with your kind of attitude working for them.

6lack Iverson1 votes

Hmm, k.

The fact that you went straight into that assumptions shows that you're already brainwashed. That instead of having an open mind, which I stated in that post you quoted, you went straight into throwing labels at something and someone you don't even know. This kind of post was supposed to turn you away. You can protect yourself and your community if you want, but you don't have any sort of validation with your bias opinion.

Eleshakai2 votes

{quoted}

No, actually it just turns anyone away who's too fanboy for LoL and Riot Games. Any sensible person would see that and read, wow, there's saltiness right there, but it's not rage, just disappointment. Why? Then proceed to read the rest of the thread. I'm not some journalist or writer, I have no reputation. I'm just a gamer, one that hopes to get into the industry relatively soon.

I can already see your toxicity though. Go straight into throwing insults. Great job being above the crowd.

"throwing around insults"? The only thing I insulted was this post and the way it was written. And everything I stated was true. Your post does a bad job of making you seem credible. Sorry if honesty is a harsh picture, but it is true. This post does NOTHING but make you seem childish and petulant. There is no part of the first two paragraphs that gives me any confidence in any of the following:

  1. That you know what you're talking about.
  2. That you're acting out of logic or reason.
  3. That you're making a valid point worthy of consideration.

The opening 1-3 paragraphs of any post have a few roles... the most important is to give you some form of credibility. Many people go about this completely the wrong way(comments like "I'm in plat, so I know what I'm talking about" or "I've been here since beta", etc.) but they're on the right track about how to frame an argument. You're not on the right track. Your post does nothing to make me WANT TO READ MORE. It just makes me feel that you're, essentially, whining.

I'm not going to make any assumptions about you as a person FROM this post. I don't know you. Maybe you wrote this post in anger. Maybe you're drunk and not thinking straight. Maybe you haven't slept in a week and your mind simply isn't clear and you're making illogical posts without realizing that that is what they are. Maybe you just never learned how to frame an argument... I don't know you. I won't try to assume. But the simple fact is this thread is NOT framed in a way that leads people to desire to read more.

And before you go linking to reviews and articles by established journalists/etc.... they already HAVE credibility. Their name alone is enough to establish it, so they can open with outrageous statements because people know that what comes after is likely to justify them. A random person doesn't have any name recognition, so they don't have that liberty... so they have to show themselves as intelligent and reasonable from the get go. And you failed to do that. Whether or not you ARE intelligent isn't the issue. You didn't show it with this post, and that's just the simple reality.

6lack Iverson1 votes

I'm sorry, would you like me to show my reported studies and polls for league of legends? How about no. I'm speaking from the general public about known issues in league of legends. Would you like me to take the time and structure a well written essay in 12 print font, double spaced in MLA format? Yeah. Not gonna happen.

It was a rant post. It doesn't matter whether the OP is credible or not, whether he's a paid off gaming journalist or not, it was just a long message of someone's thoughts about the current state of the game and the company. That's it. But I doubt actually listing any of this will have an affect on you. You went straight into throwing insults and writing down shallow comments on a post you didn't even bother reading on a forum page on a video game. That shows elitism. You immediately try and think that I have to IMPRESS you in order to get your attention. Sorry, you're not that important.

Eleshakai2 votes

{quoted}

I'm sorry, would you like me to show my reported studies and polls for league of legends? How about no. I'm speaking from the general public about known issues in league of legends. Would you like me to take the time and structure a well written essay in 12 print font, double spaced in MLA format? Yeah. Not gonna happen.

It was a rant post. It doesn't matter whether the OP is credible or not, whether he's a paid off gaming journalist or not, it was just a long message of someone's thoughts about the current state of the game and the company. That's it. But I doubt actually listing any of this will have an affect on you. You went straight into throwing insults and writing down shallow comments on a post you didn't even bother reading on a forum page on a video game. That shows elitism. You immediately try and think that I have to IMPRESS you in order to get your attention. Sorry, you're not that important.

Not personally, no. But you're also not important enough for me to justify reading your full thoughts on whatever subject you've chosen to rant about unless you can display basic decency, intelligent, and thought.

Deep Terror Nami3 votes

Go straight into throwing insults. Great job being above the crowd.

... ... Really? Hypocritical much?

6lack Iverson1 votes

Not really? I'm expressing disapointment, not trash talking or name calling. There's a difference.

powerbats2 votes

{quoted}

Not really? I'm expressing disapointment, not trash talking or name calling. There's a difference.

Oh do tell, than what's with the whole calling everyone who doesn't agree with you a Riot fanboy or the comment about no one wanting to read your obviously biased and full of hot air post as being closed minded.

By the way I read the whole thing and came to that conclusion and judging by your continued arrogance and elitist attitude it's still apparent.

6lack Iverson1 votes

I already told you that your opinion wouldn't be valid here. You went straight into throwing around insults, just like most of the people here... shocking.

And you completely misread what I wrote. Go try and read it again. I said that anyone that's dumb enough to read a slight bit of a post, the first 2 sentences, and then go straight into conclusions about what the rest of it was explaining or not reading it doesn't need to state their opinion. It would be biased for their game and their favorite company because they immediately label the OP. I never said that anyone who doesn't agree with me is a riot fanboy or whatever silly point you're trying to make in your posts.

Angry Monster3 votes

thats not how things work. You do not get to say you speak for people and then say people who disagree should not be in this thread. What are you 12?

6lack Iverson1 votes

"And you completely misread what I wrote. Go try and read it again. I said that anyone that's dumb enough to read a slight bit of a post, the first 2 sentences, and then go straight into conclusions about what the rest of it was explaining or not reading it doesn't need to state their opinion. It would be biased for their game and their favorite company because they immediately label the OP. I never said that anyone who doesn't agree with me is a riot fanboy or whatever silly point you're trying to make in your posts."

Angry Monster2 votes

I already told you that your opinion wouldn't be valid here.

From the large percentage of gamers whom do and do not play your game, we have a message for you.

quotes from your posts. Thx come again

6lack Iverson1 votes

Taking a quote out of context makes your argument very inconsistent. That's something the media does to twist stories to their agendas. Which is exactly what you're doing.

Angry Monster2 votes

Thinking you talk for % of players and the above comment make me think you are a very disturbed individual.

Everyone is out to get you it seems

powerbats1 votes

{quoted}

"And you completely misread what I wrote. Go try and read it again. I said that anyone that's dumb enough to read a slight bit of a post, the first 2 sentences, and then go straight into conclusions about what the rest of it was explaining or not reading it doesn't need to state their opinion. It would be biased for their game and their favorite company because they immediately label the OP. I never said that anyone who doesn't agree with me is a riot fanboy or whatever silly point you're trying to make in your posts."

So in other words you're now changing your story yet again since you've already shown you can't refute what anyone's saying without using the time honored troll response of your opinions don't matter because my conclusions are right. your opinions don't represent the large majority of gamers that do and don't play League of Legends, your poor excuse for a post that claims so much yet provides no evidence to back up said claims is just that, a very sad post. You then say you don't have to provide proof and try using REd Herrings and Straw Man's to deflect from the fact you've got nothing, zip, zero zilch.

Once again we can safely label you as yet another troll who's more than likely been punished by either Riot or Tribunal for being a toxic jerk. Since the only ones that ever post drivel like you did are those toxic jerks that just can't admit the fact that they're jerks and got punished for it. But go ahead and try more Straw Mans, Ad Hominem Attacks, Red Herrings I'm sure eventually you'll get the hint you're not fooling anyone here.

We've seen your type here often enough to recognize your type just another spoiled, self centered person who when confronted about their claims and biases runs to the troll corner and starts deflecting others along with insulting them. However eventually they get the hint that they're not fooling anyone and they eventually go away until their bruised ego's make them come back for more.

6lack Iverson1 votes

Yet you twist my words to fit your agenda. Go try to be a lawyer. You'd be great at that. I said your opinion doesn't matter because from the start of your posts you've done nothing but flame, name-call, and be generally toxic. You're exactly the kind of person that pushes people away from League of Legends.

Colgate Gator3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Valkyrie Witch,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=NMzOWlwL,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-04-17T09:59:23.387+0000)

You begin by immediately claiming to speak for a large number people when in reality you can only speak for yourself, and follow up by calling them (Riot) pathetic? I doubt anyone is going to give you the benefit of the doubt and finish reading this wall of text.

Yeah, pretty much this, couldn't read over the wall of text after that little tantrum.

Now that I skimmed over it, a good part of the rant is about IP grinding, yeah, I'm done.

Seeya when you reinstall the game.

6lack Iverson1 votes

Average response.

DatPikachuTho5 votes

  1. You really can't blame Riot for how shitty the people who patronize Riot act. That's like blaming McDonald's because the person in line in front of you bought every apple pie in the restaurant just to piss your kid off.

  2. You really can't blame Riot for how seriously people take the game. Yes, people treat their rank as their e-peen. But that's not Riot's fault.

  3. Yes, the game has bugs. But let's be real - when you have to code and balance over 120 different character models, you're going to run into interactions you didn't expect, and it takes time to fix them. That's why we have the Report A Bug forum - Riot doesn't have the staff to catch every single bug, which is why they kinda depend on us to let them know when something is wrong so that they can fix it.

  4. Riot is in no way a Pay-To-Win game. Pay-To-Win means that paying money in this game will give you an advantage that cannot be gained without paying money - which isn't true in LoL, because you can get everything you need for free. Paying money lets you get things faster, but it doesn't let you get things that are exclusive and will make you better than everyone else.

  5. Champion knowledge is not something that you need to pay money to get. I own roughly 20 or so champions in this game, but I know what almost all of them do, because I do my research. I watch videos. I read guides. I look up champion wikis and bios. It's an investment of time, not money, that gains you champion knowledge.

You're dishing out on Riot for things that it either can't control, or that you have an incorrect bias against.

6lack Iverson1 votes

  1. Hilarious parallel, but it's not exactly in the right context. It would be more like someone standing in the middle of McDonald's yelling insults at everybody. At that point, it would be the restaurant's job to remove that person from their premises. Just like it's Riot's job to remove people that purposefully break the summoner's code and attempts to badmouth another player, troll the game, or AFK the game. The punishment is there, it's just far too lenient.

  2. While this is true, Riot also doesn't try and push the game as being fun. All they push are champion sales, skins, and their E-sports scene on the front page, along with the occasional other media. They place these pro players on a pedestal EVERYWHERE to try and get other players to look up to them. The goal is for people to desire to become like these players and play the game a whole lot more.

  3. Riot makes enough money that they can hire more staff for their technical problems overall. They choose not to. Instead, they expend their resources into fields that will make them more money, like creating new champions and skins.

  4. Here's the Urban Dictionary for P2W: "Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate" Which is definitely true in Riot's case. Yes, you can play the game completely free, but things are so expensive with IP that it would take a very, very, very long time to get a competitive champion pool, enough rune pages to be diverse, and enough actual runes to fill those pages.

  5. As I said, it's still hard to determine the range of said champions until after you play them. Even then, it's a matter of studying the game? I thought the game was supposed to be fun, why would I need to actually study for a game.

You're negating arguments that try and take Riot off the stool of blame which they can affect, of have an incorrect bias against.

Nybx4life2 votes

Let me see...

  1. Agreed. This point is legit.

  2. Riot has made attempts to mitigate toxicity. The "Teamwork OP" video comes to mind, along with an old article I can't remember where they permabanned a pro player for being really toxic. How people play isn't Riot's fault, and Riot has made attempt to disrupt that culture. I just wish that Riot could do more (the Tribunal was a thing I heard which involved the community on handling reported players. Something like that reinstated could help).

  3. Agreed. While the servers have been a consistent issue, the bugs in-game need to be pointed out to hopefully get removed. From all my games, League has ran with no major hiccup.

4 and 5) Double agreed. OP has the wrong definition of Pay to WIn.

I am Ollin too4 votes

This feels like a ranked text. It is pointless. Riot won't read it or care, and others can't really change Riot. Notice how most people have some sort of illusions about quality. You do not have to pay to access the game, it is pretty absurd to expect a company to provide quality for nothing. On the other hand, paying for anything in this game is kind of foolish, and it is clearly specified that you will buy the right to use a bunch of pixels or earn in-game numbers faster, and you are not buying better servers or moderation or anything else.

Just like it's kind of stupid to spend money on fortunetellers, so it is spending it on League. Some people still spend on both and feel that it is worth, that's cool. I'm kind of sad for people who use this game to feel important/accomplished, but I'm glad Rioters are swimming in money and living the dream.

6lack Iverson3 votes

Really love the insight you have here and I'm also glad rioters are swimming in money and living the dream, I just wish they'd do more to provide players with a more pleasurable experience with that money instead of just "Here's new stuff you can spend money on."

Edit - It's Really sad that someone actually voted down on your comment. That just goes to show you the type of community this is...

Nybx4life3 votes

I dunno if Rioters are "living the dream"...unless working at Riot games is the dream in particular, than yeah.

As a guy interested in getting into the video game industry, I can see Riot has shifted a lot of focus on profit than product. Esports, more or less, runs itself (Run a stream from Twitch, and have venues setup for people to watch people play League of legends live). The new gift shop is like other gift shops, and you'll get more money just releasing new stuff for people to spend money on.

On the other hand, maintenance costs money, and will cost more when you implement new things (like servers), and strictly enforcing game behavior through bans would remove players, who are potential/paying customers.

Your words are legit, but League's the best I got until I can play Skyrim again.

Alljoy4 votes

Who died and made you a pillar of the League community?

warpenguin5553 votes

Just leave already. scum

BeatzBoyFTW3 votes

Darkraiiiiii?

More like, Magikaaaaaaarp

powerbats1 votes

Lol, go ahead and quote these studies and polls and back up your claims and not biased opinions. I read each post with an open mind and make my response if i feel it deserves one based upon that and not beforehand. Your responses show you expect people to agree with you and take what you say at face value while at the same time you don't want to defend those arguments or opinions with anything other than hyperbole, Straw Mans, Red Herrings and Ad Hominem attacks. If you want to be taken seriously as anything other than a troll and a bad one at that back up your claims.

6lack Iverson1 votes

Are you still here? I already told you, your opinion doesn't matter. You can't draw sensible conclusions and debate anything like an adult. You just came in here to name call and bash me. Very mature.

powerbats1 votes

{quoted}

Are you still here? I already told you, your opinion doesn't matter. You can't draw sensible conclusions and debate anything like an adult. You just came in here to name call and bash me. Very mature.

Oh yes use the time honored troll response when you can't refute their arguments dismiss them and hope they'll go away. Your opinion here is the one that doesn't matter to most of us because it's obvious you're nothing but a troll and since you can't refute our arguments you've already lost. Trying to dismiss us because you have nothing but hot air may work on Telly Tubbies forums you frequent but not here.

So why not back up your claims if you dae or will you scurry back to that hole and claim you don't have to back up your hot air statements? I mean cmon even a 8 year old can form better arguments and actually back them up then you've done so far. I'd expect that out of a 6 year old so I'm going to assume you're actually a 6 year old at least maturity wise.

6lack Iverson1 votes

Exactly what I said about you. You just straight up proved my point. Thanks.

powerbats1 votes

So your posts from teh 1st one come down to these 3 classical definitions sicne you can't defend your post without resorting to either or both nor can you do anythign other than troll.

A straw man is a common reference argument and is an informal fallacy based on false representation of an opponent's argument.[1] To be successful, a straw man argument requires that the audience be ignorant or uninformed of the original argument.

The so-called typical "attacking a straw man" argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition by covertly replacing it with a different proposition (i.e., "stand up a straw man") and then to refute or defeat that false argument ("knock down a straw man") instead of the original proposition.

A red herring is something that misleads or distracts from a relevant or important issue. It may be either a logical fallacy or a literary device that leads readers or audiences towards a false conclusion. A red herring might be intentionally used, such as in mystery fiction or as part of a rhetorical strategy

"Ignoratio elenchi", thnis one I won't even bother explaining to you but it fits you perfectly as well.

But go ahead and keep deflecting and trying those Straw Mans and REd Herrings etc, you might fool someone on antoiher forums but ehre you're just a troll and a bad one at that. so prove me wrong post all that evidence you claimed you had in your posts earlier or is it as we already know you don't have any? I'll take your continued insults and deflections as evidence you're a troll and you've given up doing anything toehr than trying to salvage your ego.

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