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Elo Hell Example

Ataraxic··2 votes·669 views

Elo hell is the grind the system puts you in.

True story. promoted to b4. go 5-0 sit at 51 lp, lose one. - 26 so im 4-1 at 25 lp. so lest extrapolate, ill have to be 16-4 just to reach next series... The grind, the grind, the grind, that one must suffer to climb is ELO HELL and its very real. its not my teammates or my opponents, its the SYSTEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. then u add in trolls, afks, toxicity.. on top. oh joy.

UPDATE: SO AFTER BEING 5-1 I WON THE NEXT THREE, WAS AT 60 LP THEN JUST LOST ONE. -19

SO 8-2 AFTER PROMOTE AND IM AT 41 LP

THE GRIND THE SYSTEM PUTS US UNDER IS ELO HELL...

BLAH BLAH BLAH..

Update: ok so won next three, reached 76 lp, then lost (-25) so Im 11-3 at 51 lp so going 3-1 got me 10 lp. almost there.........22-6 will get you in NCAA tourney but it wont be good enough to climb one itty bitty level from Elo Hell.

Update. dam lost nxt one, two afks. on team. was fun day. but..... lost 25 lp so daily summary = Im 11-4, after promote to b4 sitting at 26 lp and real ELO Hell rules the day.

Update: play two, win one, then lose one sitting at 36 lp.. go figure...

Update: play two, lose one, then win one sitting at 33 lp - summary: 13-6 since promote sitting at 33 lp. side bar: yesterdays games only had one afk troll toxic game. today, of the 4 there are two.

and here we are. lost the next two. first a toxin fest, last one with an afk from min 2 on our side. We played well, gave a good showing, but u just cant win with 4 any more. The baron and drag buffs to strong. old days you could win one once in a while but not now.. so ...... 13-8 at 0 lp. I expect with this system if I lose the next I'll be demoted to b5 again with a winning record in b4 and that.... IS..... ELO..... HELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

peace out

7 Comments

Kazaashi1 votes

Just sounds like your MMR is out of wack, if you keep up consistently winning more than losing, the LP discrepancies will even out and then you will be able to climb.

The worst thing you can do is get upset about 20 or 30 games in ranked. Ranked is about 100 games, at least. Usually more.

Ataraxic1 votes

I agree, but the need to grind so many games creates elo hell and always will. This is why so many want a hard reset, not a soft reset, on season starts.

When you have to work against the system ,and then also the toxicity, afks, trolls, your own bad days, and then winning the good fun games, (and u lose some of those too) the odds dwindle of being able to hold a win percent high enough to just climb from b4 to b3 in 20 games. in 21 games, win percentage at 62%, I have 0 lp gained. That all we are talking here. The system makes it HARD!

on a cynical note: I think Riot, as a business, make it harder because they want players to start new accounts as the way to "reset". This can achieve the same thing as a hard reset. Its such a pain to climb back to thirty etc and get champs just by IP, that I bet doing this creates revenue for them as many would spend money to get there faster and get there champ pool back on the new account.

im going in now to play that next game... I may not win, I may not lose; but i will for sure keep grinding.

Jubbinaut1 votes

{quoted}

I agree, but the need to grind so many games creates elo hell and always will. This is why so many want a hard reset, not a soft reset, on season starts.

Because forcing Bronze/Silver players to match with Platinum/Challenger players is definitely going to help their MMR, yeah?

the odds dwindle of being able to hold a win percent high enough to just climb from b4 to b3 in 20 games. in 21 games, win percentage at 62%, I have 0 lp gained. That all we are talking here. The system makes it HARD!

The system makes it hard for you. Your dumpstered MMR has convinced the system that you belong lower than you are. As you continue to win more games than you lose, it will balance out, and you'll find climbing to be significantly easier.

This is part of why many people "stuck" in bronze call Elo Hell, and the higher-ranked players who try to test it don't agree. Whether because their MMR (even placing a new account at b5) is higher, or because they simply win more games more consistently at that rating, they rise faster.

Ataraxic1 votes

Yes it will. If Im "stuck" in a any tier but playing currently at a higher level, it will definitely help. if you are against the hard reset then I expect it is due to that you know you are better than the reset level and dont want to grind back. That sounds very familiar. its all about the grind. No one wants to grind to be recognized, b5 or d1. The grind against the system is elo hell!

I think you are wrong on the "rise faster" reason. The system has a "governor" on my climb, that is not in place on an account that has played fewer games, not more games played.

If, i were to start a new account I expect i would find the system more responsive on climb and descend.. it reacts slower and chokes or clamps accounts that have played a lot. A gravity well effect if you will. Achieving escape velocity is possible, but it very very hard, and makes representing ones level much harder for a long time account than a new account. This may suit riot, see my cynical comment above.

Jubbinaut1 votes

{quoted}

Yes it will. If Im "stuck" in a any tier but playing currently at a higher level, it will definitely help. if you are against the hard reset then I expect it is due to that you know you are better than the reset level and dont want to grind back. That sounds very familiar. its all about the grind. No one wants to grind to be recognized, b5 or d1. The grind against the system is elo hell!

I don't actually play Ranked, so neither hard nor soft rests would affect me in any sense.

However, I see exactly no benefit to dumping the highest and lowest MMR players into the same pile to match against each other. In fact, I think any potential benefits would be mitigated (not outweighed) by the myriad of problems - Group A) inflated MMR for poor players leading to an artificially high ranking and general disruption of higher-tiered games; Group B) dumpstered MMR for good players leading to an artificially low ranking and general disruption of lower-tiered games; Group C) insanely dropped MMR for poor players (due to unlucky matchmaking regularly placing them against group B players) leading to more players in the same situation you're in.

Meanwhile, the soft reset allows for a shift towards the median point for each player, without running them running the risk of being placed against players drastically above them.

I think you are wrong on the "rise faster" reason. The system has a "governor" on my climb, that is not in place on an account that has played fewer games, not more games played.

If there's a governor on your account, it's nothing more than the weight of your old MMR. And, like I said, as you maintain a positive W/L over time, you'll increase your MMR (as far as I can tell, MMR ratings increase and decrease at fixed rates), and as your MMR increases relative to what's expected at your rank, you'll notice your LP changes equalize, and eventually shift to where you're earning more LP per win than you're losing per loss.

If, i were to start a new account I expect i would find the system more responsive on climb and descend.. it reacts slower and chokes or clamps accounts that have played a lot. A gravity well effect if you will.

To an extent, yes, accounts new to Ranked do have some advantages - they start with the base ~1200 MMR, and for their first chunk of games, their MMR shifts are slightly accelerated. However, that equalizes over a fairly short time. I've heard it takes somewhere between about 50-100 games to "normalize" MMR gains to the standard.

So, it's not so much that accounts with many games played are slower, as it is that they are the baseline standard, and newer accounts change faster to get them placed as close to properly as possible, as quickly as possible.

Achieving escape velocity is possible, but it very very hard, and makes representing ones level much harder for a long time account than a new account. This may suit riot, see my cynical comment above.

I think the difficulty of it lies primarily in skill. For example:

Imagine that Sneaky (the only Challenger-tier player whose name I recall off the top of my head) took over your account. As a player with a huge skill differential to that of the account, his win ratio would be enormous. This would improve the account's MMR in a relatively short time (many MMR gains, few MMR losses), and cause it to begin rising in rank fairly quickly.

If, on the other hand, a Silver player took over the account, the skill differential would be significantly lower. As such, the win ratio would be lower, and consequently, the MMR improvement would take longer.

So there's an inverse relationship between that skill differential and the rate of change in the account's actual rank.

Ataraxic1 votes

Update. went 1-1, (+12. -12+) of course still at zero Lp, then lost next one ( side bar: an afk on our side) and was demoted.

Elo hell grind Summary promoted to b4, record is 14-10 in b4 and demoted. factor in two wins in series,,,, Im 16-10 (62%) in last 26 games and LOWER LP than if i didnt play the 26 games at all. the system grind.

The suggestion that my MMR may now be higher and thus I just have to repeat this 'game set", (what 5 more times? 10? 20?) more times to reach b3. is so..... "elo hell"

Aerothal1 votes

you cant just look at your last 20 games. your overall winrate is at 50% your lp gains will tip to win more/lose less once your winrate is significantly higher overall, not just in the last 20 games. noone (not the system either) cares that you won a lot in the last 20. keep on winning more than you lose and your lp gains will increase and your lp losses decrease.

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