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For Bot Lane, why use Upgraded Red vs. Upgraded Yellow with Vision Version

Zaranchi·10/28/2015, 4:19:16 PM·4 votes·859 views

I am trying to get better about warding and want to understand why it is recommended to use the upgraded "sweeper" vs the upgraded yellow that reveals stealth/green wards. I am mostly speaking from the perspective of the Support.

My line of thinking: The Red Trinket: Will sweep an area, reveal to you a ward or maybe two. -Best case scenario, you are able to take out a ward or even two in close vicinity with both ADC and Support hitting different wards. -Worst case scenario you are denied by the enemy team's harass and you get nothing out of it. Furthermore, if you do take out a ward, it can immediately be re-warded by enemy lane. Also, you may not have enough time to clear out multiple wards, like in dragon pit as the sweeper is only for a short time. Bonus: you can scan a large area and see there is no vision in the first place.

The Yellow Trinket Vision Version: Will put a vision ward that reveals everything in a vicinity, again one ward or multiple. -Best case scenario, you are able to take out all wards and have the vision ward sit there and continue providing vision until enemy team can take it out, or you use it somewhere else. If enemy team re-wards the area, you still can kill those wards. -Worst case scenario, enemy tries to deny you. Now here, there's a difference, they can't simply harass you away, as they also need to kill it. The vision ward takes 5 hits, while the wards it reveals (green wards) take 3 hits. So, you at least have a chance to kill their ward before yours dies. Bonus: Save a ton of gold not constantly buying pinks because they keep getting destroyed.

I know I just put out the best and worst case scenario and most games are a range of those. But the point is, I don't understand why sweeper is better for a support. If the argument is that the vision ward should be used in a place defensively, then the rest of your team can still buy a total of 4 vision wards and put them down. Furthermore, the support can use the vision ward to clear out stealth wards, and then go put a pink down where the "Defensive" ward should be.

I feel like I am missing something here and I want to know what it is. Thanks!

15 Comments

AgentBlack10/28/2015, 4:33:06 PM3 votes

My initial thought is that the Greater Vision Totem is on a 120 second cooldown versus the Oracle's Lens' 75 second cooldown, letting you detect wards about half as often; though in late game situations, a GVT will let you use all of your inventory slots while maintaining a vision ward. I'll try this, and I'm interested to see more replies.

magic pole10/28/2015, 4:34:55 PM3 votes
  • you can only place 1 pink ward which will only allow you to clear 1 bush of vision.
  • upgraded red has a shorter cool down and will also allow you to see stealthed champions
  • lastly, the duration of upgraded red is quite long. You can cast it at mid lane river bush, clear that, the bush next to jungle entrance, and the river bush and possibly also in front of dragon/baron. You can occasionally clear 3 wards with it. If you have teammates with you to help attack the wards, you can get more
  • If there were no wards to kill, you can walk through a rather large area and realize the enemy has absolutely no vision there, allowing you to setup your own and make picks if they try to enter your zone.
Tysmin10/28/2015, 4:28:13 PM1 votes

becasue the upgraded reed also gives you true vision in the area around you which is useful for finding wards, traps and teemo's (and on occasion evelyn.

Antonok10/28/2015, 4:30:23 PM1 votes

Basically it's a waste of 250g. Sightstone with the ward limit makes the wards from the yellow trinket obsolete.

Say for example, you have 3 wards out already and an enemy places a ward close to you, with the yellow you'd have to kill one of your previous wards to place one to kill said enemy ward. With the red trinket, you don't.

TurquoiseYoshi10/28/2015, 9:11:18 PM1 votes

I think it's that Red Trinket is tougher to get otherwise. With Pink Ward Trinket, you get 1 on the map at a time, with a 2 minute CD. You can use 100 gold to buy that, if you really want it. That is (depending on your support item) sitting with a farmer for a few waves. Red Trinket has no item counterpart on SR, has a 1.25 minute CD, and can be used in basically any needed situation without repercussions.

Stephenizgod10/28/2015, 9:24:20 PM1 votes

Because you can buy a Pink ward and place it somewhere then become a mobile Pink ward with the upgraded Scanner. 100g is nothing for keeping one area ward free, the scanner however is mobile and can not be destroyed. It also disables them making it so they give no vision which is helpful if you just want to run through quickly without giving up information on where you are going or who is with you. The Pink ward has a certain range, you can either cover all of Baron pit or all of the River, not both, so with a Pink ward and Scanner you can cover both and make sure there are no wards. Basically though, you can buy all the Vision Wards you want whenever you want to but you can not buy an Oracle's Lens whenever you want (well i mean you can but it goes on CD forever long).