Boards›[ARCHIVED] Miscellaneous

To Riot Lyte

usephysics··16 votes·7,301 views

Hi. I'm Use Physics. I was told by Lyte to make a boards post, so here it is.

Back in Late March (the 25th I believe) I was banned for 14 days, for toxicity. Now, this means with the current plan, I won't be getting my end of season rewards. However, I very strongly think I deserve these rewards, please hear me out.

First of all, the 14 day ban was the first (and only) restriction/ban/punishment I have received this season. I had not received a single notification that day of me being reported for harassment/negative attitude etc. So why was I banned? Well to be honest, yes I was toxic that day. But not your typical toxic.

I didn't tell people they sucked. I didn't wish cancer or told people to uninstall. I was toxic in TWO games, the 2nd game I was in a 5 man. Both games, my toxicity was directed towards my close real life friend, we were joking around, you will see later in the chat logs.

So, March 25th, and Chat Logs. I played 3 games with something in common, which is probably what alerted me to the system. I played a thresh, teemo, and ahri game, and in all 3 I spammed "I used to live by a code. I've done things i'm not proud of. Turns out i've got a proficiency for killing. - Teeto 2015". I believe that I was reported for spamming, which is why I didn't receive any notifications telling me that I was reported for negative attitude. The weird thing is, Riot Support gave me chat logs for the teemo and ahri game, when I was only "toxic" in the thresh/teemo game. In the Ahri game, I literally displayed 0 toxicity (see soon).

Here are the logs.

EDIT: Didn't know I couldn't post the link here. Logs are in the comments.

I have removed all the spam to make it easier to read, and provided some context notes.

Lyte, if you are reading this, I hope you understand. I am not a toxic person, and since that punishment, I've yet to receive even a notification that I was reported for toxicity (at least I can't remember being notified). I was a moron for 2 games, I learned my lesson. I climbed from bronze 2 to plat this season, i'm very competitive about the game, please don't take my season rewards from me.

Thanks for reading

82 Comments

RiotLyte8 votes

Could you post the Reform Card URL you got in your e-mail?

Lucifer1 votes

Have you considered clarifying to people who will or won't be receiving season rewards? If you've ever been chat or ranked restricted, are you ineligible? Or is it just if you've been banned in the past, or are restricted at the end of the season? Wasn't super clear to me from your post on Last FM.

Also, have you considered the complaints about the system punishing people who "verbally abusing" themselves and are getting false flagged?

R1103 votes

http://www.surrenderat20.net/2015/08/red-post-collection-initial-juggernaut.html#7

Time ban or multiple 20 minute low priority queue in a season => no rewards for that season Active ranked/chat restriction at the end of a season => no rewards for that season

People who completed their restrictions get their rewards.

Hope that helped :)

Count Zubat3 votes

{quoted}

http://www.surrenderat20.net/2015/08/red-post-collection-initial-juggernaut.html#7

Time ban or multiple 20 minute low priority queue in a season => no rewards for that season Active ranked/chat restriction at the end of a season => no rewards for that season

People who completed their restrictions get their rewards.

Hope that helped :)

So if I had 20 minutes low priority queues (happened to me 2, maybe 3 times this year) I won't get any reward? Great, I love being punished more than once for doing something wrong. Because wasting 1 hour of my life waiting to start another 5 matches isn't enough. It's like getting F grade at school and then next month, your teacher comes to you and says: "Because you got F for not being prepared for lesson last month, I will give you another F today. I don't care if you are now systematic pupil or not, you're getting punished anyway." Sorry, there shouldn't be something like double punishment, this is just plain bullsht.

MićaĆomlaDJ1 votes

Because if you got multiple 20 minute queues, it means you ruined a lot of peoples game a lot of times. So you want to be rewarded for ruinning peoples games multiple times?

Count Zubat2 votes

{quoted}

Because if you got multiple 20 minute queues, it means you ruined a lot of peoples game a lot of times. So you want to be rewarded for ruinning peoples games multiple times?

I was already punished, why should I get punished even more?

I had a time when I afked for various reasons: either I didn't plan my time right, or something else. Three of the bans I got because my PC malfunctions and it turns into a sleep mode resulting in me leaving match for about half a minute (approximate time of me reconnecting because of that issue, and yes, I had send my PC to service for repair already 4 times and every time they couldn't repair issue, so now I am getting new PC). Again, it gives no chances for people to redeem themselves. Basically, it says "you fcked up 10 months ago, well, than fck you, you won't get rewards!". It is discouraging for people who once were toxic players/afked etc., because it doesn't give them a chance to redeem themselves. What do you think, how many people will now say "aw, just fck that, I'm not gonna get rewards so who cares"?

MićaĆomlaDJ1 votes

You had a chance to redeem yourself after doing your 20 min queues, but then you fcked up again and again, and you still somehow think you deserve those rewards

Mujo1 votes

But does this include pre-season? That wasn't clarified unless i'm not reading clearly. Or maybe i'm just unclear on whether pre-season counts as part of the new season, ranked and all, or not?

@Lyte pls clarify qq

Edit: I believe my ban was towards the end of season 4 and finished during pre-season though. I don't know if that would affect any circumstances being that the ban was ongoing during the first few days of preseason.

Phife2 votes

Can people be reported for saying "that was gay"?

like straight up. it just seems ridiculous if people are banned for saying stuff like that.

Cuix16 votes

If you're still using "gay" as an insult in 2015, you've earned that report.

Ipols3 votes

If taric tells you he is going to backdoor you, you can say that it sounds gay without it beeing an insult :P anyway I agree with you

KaylaTheSheep1 votes

Gay isn't an insult to homosexuals, a lot of people use the term gay in a negative sense.

usephysics1 votes

If you guys read the context, I wasn't saying gay as an attempt to insult anybody

Mujo3 votes

Context is pretty irrelevant considering that's still use of an identifier in a deprecatory way. "You gay now?" is like "Why would you be gay? That's wrong. Homosexuality is wrong." You make it sound like being gay is wrong.

Reread Jubbinaut's initial comment for a better explanation, though c:

Edit: And if I remember correctly, the system doesn't need to issue a warning for derogatory speech such as hate speech, anti-homosexual commentary, etc before issuing punishment. Therefore, your ban was warranted regardless.

P.S. Didn't even have to read past half of your first game transcript to get a good idea of why you were banned, man...

usephysics3 votes

I didn't make this post to say I didn't deserve the ban I got 5 months ago. I accept that ban, served it. Now im focused on my season rewards. Lyte told me to post on the boards and link him, so I said what I had to say

Jubbinaut9 votes

Except that in that context, it's negative-by-association. "Man, that's gay," indicates that the thing you're referring to is bad. We know that you think it's bad, because you're comparing it to homosexuality. Which - in this context - is also bad. Which would make it a backhanded insult to homosexuality as a whole.

Phife2 votes

But still, i can call any of my friends 'niggas' and they wont report me or flip shit. but since its a blacklisted word, i'd get chat banned.

Same goes for the word Gay. I say it so much with my friends because we say "damn dude thats pretty gay" or "yo are you gay now? lol"

It's something you can say to people when you feel comfortable, its not like i would go to the presidential debate and ask donald trump "yo nigga, you gay now?" thats where people get this idea that people just say these phrases without thinking about it and say it just to spite the other party at hand. Where usually its not.

Jubbinaut2 votes

{quoted}

But still, i can call any of my friends 'niggas' and they wont report me or flip shit. but since its a blacklisted word, i'd get chat banned.

Actually, it's considered hate speech - you'd receive a time ban.

But only if you were reported.

Same goes for the word Gay. I say it so much with my friends because we say "damn dude thats pretty gay" or "yo are you gay now? lol"

See my previous post for an explanation of why that's still homophobic.

It's something you can say to people when you feel comfortable, its not like i would go to the presidential debate and ask donald trump "yo nigga, you gay now?" thats where people get this idea that people just say these phrases without thinking about it and say it just to spite the other party at hand. Where usually its not.

It's about the context. In a public setting, with people you don't know, is absolutely the wrong context for that kind of language (though personally, I believe that there is no "right" context for it - only "less wrong" contexts). Matchmade games, therefore, are very much the wrong context for that kind of language.

missinggrave1 votes

casually is queer

There are good and bad times to use it. If you use it with friends who aren't offended, stop if someone is offended, and don't use it to harm others it's alright. It's just like swearing.

EDIT: OKAY SO THAT'S HOW YOU MAKE THAT STUPID BOX. OKAY I MEANT I AM QUEER BUT IM JUST LEAVING THAT THERE SO YOU ALL KNOW HOW SLOW I AM AT FIGURING OUT HOW FORUMS WORK WITH STUFF LIKE THAT.

Jubbinaut1 votes

{quoted}

There are good and bad times to use it. If you use it with friends who aren't offended, stop if someone is offended, and don't use it to harm others it's alright. It's just like swearing.

That's not entirely unlike the point I was making - though I don't necessarily agree with you.

It's important to recognize the context of the situation - and that any public context is a terrible time to break out anything that might be termed hate speech, whether it's racist, sexist, homophobic, ableist, or anything else.

Firu5 votes

I disagree with much of what you said but that's your opinion. However, if you say those things in a match made game with people who are different than you with different opinion than, as you say, the context has changed. While you can say it to your friend and mean no harm, you don't know if just overhearing people talking like that is offensive to others in the game. What if you were playing in a match with a black person who found that term offensive or a homosexual man or woman who found the latter term offensive?

Further, because of the internet and the nature of chat rooms, you don't know if anyone one your team falls into any of those categories. Why say something that really doesn't add anything and can also really offend someone? Especially, in an environment where Riot says they want to promote a positive atmosphere in their game.

Phife2 votes

Because in sociology, there's a term that refers to the nature of behavior around groups of people or in certain settings. I forgot the name of it, but if you like to read into it further, you can do so.

But back to the point, people have a hierarchy of social norms that is considered 'normal' and 'abnormal', you shouldn't be banned in a game for saying a phrase or setting of words in a general sense, that's why i don't agree with this punishment system. Because you could say anything in any type of context and have it be mistaken for something radical or extreme. I could say something and someone might take offense to it but in say my culture its a compliment.

Our nation that we live upon has been founded by freedom of all the sorts, so why should Riot be banning people or suspending their accounts because what they have said was taken out of context, or even worse because they felt the right to voice them selves.

Now don't get me wrong i don't want people to run around in league calling each other niggers, i'm simply saying that there are an uncountable amount of cultures in our world and sub-cultures created by each individual or a group of individuals, now whos to say what they do and say is wrong or right? Why are people getting banned for talking how they talk in real life?

This was a huge problem with rap back in the late 80s to early 90s, is people were singing and rapping about shit they had to deal with in their life, and then all of a sudden it became extremely profound that someone or ANYONE could say these things in a normal setting and get away with it.

Now today we have riots all over the world about freedom of action / speech and etc...so on and so forth, why does Riot Games enforce these ridiculous rules onto the gamers in the world? Everyone should have a right to play the game how they see fit, and if someone offends you PERSONALLY not by association, but IF SOMEONE PERSONALLY ASSAULTS YOU IN GAME BY VERBAL ABUSE, IT SHOULD BE REPORTED AND ACTION SHOULD BE TAKEN. But if someone is offended because of what you're saying, i should be able to report anyone who i don't agree with online. That's it, if i get banned for saying something "offensive" to someone I should be able to see people banned for saying stupid shit i don't agree with.

Now i'm not going to say the exact things i don't agree with in the community or league of legends, but There's a lot of shit that i have to deal with in a game and I usually don't get worked up or want to throw a rage fit at them, because there is no point in trying to CHANGE the whole entire world to what i believe is correct or not.

Phife2 votes

Its not an insult, its just ingrained in my head as to say it with a negative connotation.

Photos of Ghosts1 votes

People using "gay" in any way that doesn't mean just "happy" deserve a report.

missinggrave1 votes

I am gay for Graves' nice, big, c-LOCK, oh boy would you look at the time, it's time for me to not get reported that's for sure.

Photos of Ghosts1 votes

Not according to Riot or anyone else here - but it actually is horribly wrong. Taking away a word from a language just to presume that arrogance and hypersexualisation are a direct consequence of one's hormonal nature, that anyways any impact of hormones on behaviour is legitimate, and that all this can be assimilated to simple good mood - that's shameful.

EDIT: by "impact of hormones on behaviour" I don't mean one's sexual choices, I mean as long as you have a normal life have it with whoever you want, and as long as you're a slut you're one whatever else you are. I mean one's behaviour in public, posture, facial expression, choice of language. Not all of what is instinctive is allowed, and not all of what is considered "common culture" amongst homosexuals who think they should and can form a social group of their own is instinctive.

TurquoiseYoshi1 votes

There should be a definite block between using it in a game with friends and a game with people you don't know. If you're using it with people you don't know, then there might be a problem there. But, if it's a 5 man matchmade game with your friends and you say it in team chat, it should be given the benefit of the doubt.

Jubbinaut2 votes

I don't know with certainty about the current system, but I do know that in the Tribunal, if a player was in a 5-man premade, team-chat was not shown in the case unless that player was reported by one of his teammates.

I would assume things would work similarly with the current system, since that was a particularly effective safety valve.

TurquoiseYoshi1 votes

I would assume so too, but the way this guy is saying it makes it seem like he uses the term around his friends, but not with random people. I'm not really sure what he's trying to say tbh

usephysics1 votes

I didn't really know the other 3 guys, but that Zed, we are really good friends, and you're right, me and my close friends refer to each other as "idiots" etc. alot.

usephysics1 votes

This was back in March. The Tribunal was still down, my case never went through the tribunal

Jubbinaut1 votes

Yes, I know. However, as I said, I see no reason that the current system - which was more-or-less in place back in March - would operate differently in that regard.

usephysics1 votes

Maybe my teamates did report me. The thresh game (didn't receive logs for) I was just playing with the Zed from the teemo game. But, I didn't receive any notification of being reported, which leads me to think that I was just reported for spamming

Jubbinaut1 votes

They don't issue notifications for every report.

And I think it's worth noting that spamming is, itself, a punishable action.

usephysics1 votes

As I said in a different comment, I didnt make this thread to talk about if I deserved or didn't deserve my ban, thats in the past.

I'm trying to get my season rewards now.

Jubbinaut1 votes

Nor am I discussing whether you deserved or didn't deserve your ban. My comments thus far have been regarding a separate sub-discussion started in your thread.

The only things I've said regarding you or your situation have been in relation to context you brought in your comments to me.

But I will say this: It's highly unlikely you'll receive the seasonal rewards. At least there's always next year.

usephysics1 votes

Alright. Before you go though, personally, do you think I deserve the rewards or not?

Jubbinaut1 votes

I think that, given the requirements of receiving end-of-season rewards, you deserve them as much as I do.

usephysics1 votes

Thanks. Have a good one man ^^

Jubbinaut1 votes

You, too. Good luck next year!

Boyahda8 votes

http://imgur.com/e5pVhqd

usephysics4 votes

Logs Here

http://pastebin.com/dVUbF16m

Angry Monster2 votes

why didnt you respond directly to him so he would get a msg that you replied? Now he is going to have to hunt for your replied if he even bothers double checking the thread.

It is like you are asking to be ignored.

usephysics1 votes

I'm new to the boards, are you replying to my logs? Because I posted the logs comment before Lyte arrived.

Pls Be Gentle2 votes

[deleted]

Firu5 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pls Be Gentle,realm=EUNE,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=9xkfEoWM,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-08-26T06:44:20.055+0000)

I am in the exact same situation. First and only ban this season. Not for homophobic/rasism or stuff like ''i hope you get cancer''. Only usual flame like noob, omg, stuff like this. I am so close to plat, I worked so hard, my highest in 2 years. Can there be something done about me too?

edit: it was a bot ban, I know it because it banned me instantly after I finished the game (we won by the way)

The fact that you classify stuff as "usual flame" just makes me sad. :(

Unfortunately, flaming is flaming and while some is more intense in behavior, frequency can cause a ban even in the case of "usual flaming". The people you are playing with are also probably working hard and trying and don't deserve to be subjected to "usual flame". No one does. Just continue to try and improve and behave so that you can earn rewards next season.

Pls Be Gentle2 votes

[deleted]

Firu2 votes

You don't know what situation I'm in or not. Don't post on a board and expect people not to disagree with you. I, at least, think I'm doing so constructively and fairly politely. To the remainder of your comment -

That 70% is a completely anecdotal number. Even if true, that's just the case for you and mostly like not so for the majority of people. I never said I don't lose my temper in league matches. I do. I've questioned teammates builds in ways there were unproductive or commented how it's impossible to win with someone going 0/10. This is behavior I need to reduce. However, I try very hard to control myself and would like to believe I rarely engage in such words. I never use racist or homophobic terms. I am, however, older than most people playing the game and I learned that lesson at a younger age - perhaps the same age many people saying those words are now. So I understand that it's a growing/maturity thing as well and not someone being overtly malicious all the time.

Further, Riot focuses on punishing people who engage in CONSTANT/FREQUENT negative behavior or do so in such an intense and attacking fashion. They even said a majority of people do have bad days and then behave well from then on. The people getting 7-day and 14-day bans are people who violated the rules to the degree I just mentioned (constant/frequent or intense).

Additionally, if people just got chat restrictions than they are not in the same spot as people who got the 7-day/14-day bans. These are degrees of punishment for the aforementioned degrees of "flaming" previous mentioned in the other post.

Finally, we (people reading your post) only have your words to determine if you "only" said things that you mentioned here. You may have said worse or you may actually have just said what you posted. However, your tone and content in the rest of the conversation are a reflection of you. By responding how you did just now, what do you think I'm more inclined to believe? That you really are the victim to over punishment or that you may have said more/worse things than you admitted to (either intentionally or by not realizing it)?

Photos of Ghosts1 votes

"Nothing happens" stopped reading. YOU are those people, stuff IS happening to you.

KemoBigDSabi1 votes

if you have ever played halo or cod online you know we are in the generation of "usual flame"

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