Talon or Varus

InsertNameHere95·Mar 12, 2017·1 votes·830 views

I'm in a dilemma here, I have around 15k IP and I want to spend 7.5k of it on Nautilus, Nasus, an Jax. The other 7.5k IP I want to spend on either Talon or Varus, which champion should I buy?

10 Comments

Yosuke ApperuMar 12, 20171 votes

Honestly if it was old talon i'd say go for talon! New talon along with all the assassins after the assassin rework just have stupid damage with less strategy. Varus is fun to play multiple ways in mid or bot :D

ChaddyFantomeMar 16, 20171 votes

{quoted}

New talon along with all the assassins after the assassin rework just have stupid damage with less strategy.

stupid damage with less strategy

less strategy

_ Yes because Pressing all your buttons as fast as you can on someone takes WAY more strategy than properly stacking a mark to then trigger it for burst damage. /s_

I mean really now.

Yosuke ApperuMar 17, 20171 votes

{quoted}

..

..

..

_ Yes because Pressing all your buttons as fast as you can on someone takes WAY more strategy than properly stacking a mark to then trigger it for burst damage. /s_

I mean really now.

His damage is incredibly overtuned whether it's a 3 stack mechanic or not

ChaddyFantomeMar 24, 20171 votes

{quoted}

His damage is incredibly overtuned whether it's a 3 stack mechanic or not

Says who?

Yosuke ApperuMar 25, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Says who?

Math. Ever one of his abilities had their ratios increased. Plus he was given his 3 stack passive which alone is 200% Bonus AD

ChaddyFantomeMar 26, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Yosuke Apperu,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=7fkQoBvG,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-25T21:35:27.178+0000)

Math. Ever one of his abilities had their ratios increased.

At the cost of the base damage. and getting the total damage behind delays and detonations. But ofc, lets ignore that part because it doesn't fit your agenda.

There is more to the state of balance of a champ than the total sum of the damage of their spells.

Plus he was given his 3 stack passive which alone is 200% Bonus AD

He also lost his 15% damage amp, instant point and click blink that also had a 99% slow on it, as well as his 10% damage increase to all slowed targets. Which do you think was more consistent and reliable?

Yosuke ApperuMar 28, 20171 votes

{quoted}

At the cost of the base damage. and getting the total damage behind delays and detonations. But ofc, lets ignore that part because it doesn't fit your agenda.

There is more to the state of balance of a champ than the total sum of the damage of their spells.

He also lost his 15% damage amp, instant point and click blink that also had a 99% slow on it, as well as his 10% damage increase to all slowed targets. Which do you think was more consistent and reliable?

What would be my agenda friend? I have over 150k mastery on talon ( I would have way more but sadly I don't play him nearly as much as I used to) I loved old talon and prefer him in every way over current Talon

On to his base damages.

Old Q: Base damage only of the initial hit plus bleed (not including auto since that is scaling ) 40 / 80 / 120 / 160 / 200 New Q: Base damage 80 / 100 / 120 / 140 / 160 If he's using the close range it's 120 / 150 / 180 / 210 / 240 Old W: Base damage 60 / 110 / 160 / 210 / 260 New W: Base damage 110 / 150 / 190 / 230 / 270 Old R: Base damage 240 / 340 / 440 New R: Base damage 160 / 240 / 320

So his base damages without his old E included are Actually higher minus ultimate. His rake deals almost twice the damage at rank 1 than it used to. (I'm aware it doesnt come back right away, but they also did increase the range of his rake. Over all his ratios are higher as well. If we were to add his passive to the equation it'd look something more like Old Q: 220 at rank 5 Old W: 66 at rank one and 286 at rank 5 Old R: 484 at rank 3 Let's add that up and we get 990 for bases for old talon New talon bases : 240 +270 + 320 and we get 830 let's add his passive into the equation (at level 11 it maxes out at 160) So new talon is also 990 in base damages. Yes you have E on old talon damage amp old talon would end up wining if it were just base damages. I don't feel as though old talon had as low of base damages as you were implying however

As for his 99 percent slow on his E ACTIVE: Talon blinks to the far side of the target enemy, Slow icon slowing them by 99% for 0.25 seconds and increasing the damage he deals to them within the next 3 seconds. You didn't mention that it lasted only .25 seconds, I'm willing to admit that his old base damage are higher than I thought, but it's only a .25 second slow

Old talon total scaling was 400% bonus AD Plus an auto on his Q So 500% bonus AD New talon total scaling is 625% bonus AD Plus an auto since he will auto after his Q so 725% bonus AD We'll also add old talon E to the equation so 625% bonus AD. Honestly all and all they're both really strong champions, I feel like old talon definitely was a better team fighter however.

ChaddyFantomeApr 1, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Yosuke Apperu,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=7fkQoBvG,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-28T05:20:27.000+0000)

What would be my agenda friend? I have over 150k mastery on talon ( I would have way more but sadly I don't play him nearly as much as I used to) I loved old talon and prefer him in every way over current Talon

There is your agenda.

On to his base damages.

Old Q: Base damage only of the initial hit plus bleed (not including auto since that is scaling ) 40 / 80 / 120 / 160 / 200

why wouldn't you include the auto? it still technically has a base per level based on base AD.

Discounting it because it scales with your AD is bias as so does your Q, even tho we aren't counting the scaling on your Q.

New Q: Base damage 80 / 100 / 120 / 140 / 160 If he's using the close range it's 120 / 150 / 180 / 210 / 240

So it does less damage unless he meets a condition. Glad we agree.

Old W: Base damage 60 / 110 / 160 / 210 / 260 New W: Base damage 110 / 150 / 190 / 230 / 270

So he does less Damage consistently and only has 10 more in total if he gets the second half. Glad we agree.

Old R: Base damage 240 / 340 / 440 New R: Base damage 160 / 240 / 320

This one cant even be contested.

So his base damages without his old E included are Actually higher minus ultimate.

Again, only if you pretend we live in a vacuum where everyone stands still to let you get your maximum Damage potential off 200% of the time.

His rake deals almost twice the damage at rank 1 than it used to.

His Old Rake was made intentionally retardedly underpowered at rank 1 tho as a result of trying to gate his early game to justify his scaling and unhealthy gameplay pattern.

Every talon player knew this.

Using W at level 1 was almost never done outside of last hitting in situations where it was necessary since it was such an inefficient spell until you has 3 points into it.

(I'm aware it doesnt come back right away, but they also did increase the range of his rake.

At the cost of some of the width and giving ti a huge delay and lowering the initial damage while boosting the return damage. Why do you keep intentionally turning a blind eye to this?

Over all his ratios are higher as well. If we were to add his passive to the equation it'd look something more like Old Q: 220 at rank 5 Old W: 66 at rank one and 286 at rank 5 Old R: 484 at rank 3

And again, you are intentionally ignoring his 15% damage amp on E and 10% on his OLD Passive.

Let's add that up and we get 990 for bases for old talon New talon bases : 240 +270 + 320 and we get 830 let's add his passive into the equation (at level 11 it maxes out at 160) So new talon is also 990 in base damages. Yes you have E on old talon damage amp old talon would end up wining if it were just base damages. I don't feel as though old talon had as low of base damages as you were implying however

...by your own calcs he does...[zombie-brand-facepalm]

As for his 99 percent slow on his E ACTIVE: Talon blinks to the far side of the target enemy, Slow icon slowing them by 99% for 0.25 seconds and increasing the damage he deals to them within the next 3 seconds. You didn't mention that it lasted only .25 seconds, I'm willing to admit that his old base damage are higher than I thought, but it's only a .25 second slow

a 0.25 second slow that is a 99% slow. it is practically a stun and gives him a free empowered Auto attack from his passive as well as the amp from his E. That is a free 25% damage increase whenever he E'd someone, followed by a 15 Damage increase on his whole rotation and the following base damage from his Q auto.

Old talon total scaling was 400% bonus AD Plus an auto on his Q So 500% bonus AD New talon total scaling is 625% bonus AD Plus an auto since he will auto after his Q so 725% bonus AD

This is only if he gets the perfect rotation off, which he wont realistically do consistently. Even the most consistent rotation on talon gives up his Melee Q to use it as a gap closer.

We'll also add old talon E to the equation so 625% bonus AD. Honestly all and all they're both really strong champions, I feel like old talon definitely was a better team fighter however.

again , you forgot about his 10% on autos from his passive.

Taric the GayMar 12, 20171 votes

Ezreal

http://www.auplod.com/u/pdolua802d6.png

Curious KatMar 12, 20171 votes

Get Talon, Varus is feeling the Deathfire touch nerf and his Q rework pretty hard, a lot of damage has been removed from his kit. So definitely go with Talon, whom can still 2 shot people with no problem what so ever xD.

And be sure to build Lethality and arm pen!