Riot puts so much emphasis on making this game "Toaster Friendly"

Mah3sh··27 votes·5,696 views

But still, to this day, the client takes up just as much memory as the game itself.

Why?

48 Comments

SonyUSA11 votes

Welcome to the world of memory optimized applications. Client? Not optimized. Game? Optimized. Now ask yourself why Skype takes 130MB of memory when it has less than 10MB worth of assets loaded.

Xengre16 votes

Welcome to the world of memory optimized applications. Client? Not optimized. Game? Optimized. Now ask yourself why Skype takes 130MB of memory when it has less than 10MB worth of assets loaded.

Nothing is really very optimized here. The reason this game isn't toaster friendly is, frankly, Riot's programmers aren't very good.

The game loads often slower, for the average user, then a Crysis multiplayer map.

Crysis 2 & 3 will be fairly playable on low spec machines that struggle to run LoL despite having an immensely higher asset count and quality, particle effects, environment, advanced lighting and shaders, etc.

In fact LoL has such simple assets that even with a fully loaded running match if it were running in a top tier game industry engine (Unreal/CryEngine/etc.) it should produce fps in the thousands on a single high end GPU setup if vsync were disabled (perhaps the artists didn't do a good job with the assets, I haven't looked, personally).

Let's not forget the lack of advanced shaders such as global illumination, DoF, etc. I would argue they aren't even utilizing extremely basic techniques such as instancing for particle optimization based on what I have seen of performance when fights break out across other user's hardware and my extra laptop that I pulled from storage.

They would have abandoned Adobe Air for a full DirectX client (which would take less then 2 months to develop and have ready to beta for a high quality client). It would not have an alternate client from the game and would instead have necessary features that tween/expand/pop up when activated (friends, profile, etc.).

iainB857 votes

Welcome to the world of memory optimized applications. Client? Not optimized. Game? Optimized. Now ask yourself why Skype takes 130MB of memory when it has less than 10MB worth of assets loaded.

Nothing is really very optimized here. The reason this game isn't toaster friendly is, frankly, Riot's programmers aren't very good.

The game loads often slower, for the average user, then a Crysis multiplayer map.

Crysis 2 & 3 will be fairly playable on low spec machines that struggle to run LoL despite having an immensely higher asset count and quality, particle effects, environment, advanced lighting and shaders, etc.

In fact LoL has such simple assets that even with a fully loaded running match if it were running in a top tier game industry engine (Unreal/CryEngine/etc.) it should produce fps in the thousands on a single high end GPU setup if vsync were disabled (perhaps the artists didn't do a good job with the assets, I haven't looked, personally).

Let's not forget the lack of advanced shaders such as global illumination, DoF, etc. I would argue they aren't even utilizing extremely basic techniques such as instancing for particle optimization based on what I have seen of performance when fights break out across other user's hardware and my extra laptop that I pulled from storage.

They would have abandoned Adobe Air for a full DirectX client (which would take less then 2 months to develop and have ready to beta for a high quality client). It would not have an alternate client from the game and would instead have necessary features that tween/expand/pop up when activated (friends, profile, etc.).

I doubt its the assets, I'm pretty sure its the engine. You have to remember Riot started out as a no-name company with everything to prove. All this time later they have yet to do an overhaul on their engine, probably because the sheer number of champions and mechanics, it would be a nightmare to try to reproduce in a new engine. Thus we are stuck with graphics that were easily possible over a decade ago running very poorly.

Xengre6 votes

Welcome to the world of memory optimized applications. Client? Not optimized. Game? Optimized. Now ask yourself why Skype takes 130MB of memory when it has less than 10MB worth of assets loaded.

Nothing is really very optimized here. The reason this game isn't toaster friendly is, frankly, Riot's programmers aren't very good.

The game loads often slower, for the average user, then a Crysis multiplayer map.

Crysis 2 & 3 will be fairly playable on low spec machines that struggle to run LoL despite having an immensely higher asset count and quality, particle effects, environment, advanced lighting and shaders, etc.

In fact LoL has such simple assets that even with a fully loaded running match if it were running in a top tier game industry engine (Unreal/CryEngine/etc.) it should produce fps in the thousands on a single high end GPU setup if vsync were disabled (perhaps the artists didn't do a good job with the assets, I haven't looked, personally).

Let's not forget the lack of advanced shaders such as global illumination, DoF, etc. I would argue they aren't even utilizing extremely basic techniques such as instancing for particle optimization based on what I have seen of performance when fights break out across other user's hardware and my extra laptop that I pulled from storage.

They would have abandoned Adobe Air for a full DirectX client (which would take less then 2 months to develop and have ready to beta for a high quality client). It would not have an alternate client from the game and would instead have necessary features that tween/expand/pop up when activated (friends, profile, etc.).

I doubt its the assets, I'm pretty sure its the engine. You have to remember Riot started out as a no-name company with everything to prove. All this time later they have yet to do an overhaul on their engine, probably because the sheer number of champions and mechanics, it would be a nightmare to try to reproduce in a new engine. Thus we are stuck with graphics that were easily possible over a decade ago running very poorly.

Oh, the engine is definitely a problem. I simply meant the assets may be making the problem worse if they weren't properly created (excess vertex/polygons, lack of low poly sculptures based on a high res model, etc.). The number of champions and game mechanics has no impact on a graphics overhaul. It was one thing as a small developer but now with their nearly one billion earnings for 2014 and they still have programmers who perform worse then your above average indie coder... and its depressing. The Ashe skill swap bug just showed how bad it was (this is a glitch that came from excruciatingly poor programming that many senior level college students would have known better then to do). They tried to do a graphics overhaul in the past, Project Shiny, which was required for their Magma Chamber plans but their team was not up to the challenge. :/ Since then they haven't made any serious effort on this front. Sad too, considering their employees get very well paid.

Maxilimus8 votes

A consequence of Riots hiring process. Instead of hiring specialized people who know what the fuck their doing, they hire people with broad experience but little specialization. They throw artists/philosophers with computer science interests at coding and wonder why things aren't optimized as well as other games. Sure they might bring a unique perspective, but sacrifices quality for that "je ne sais quoi"

They attribute their success to this hiring philosophy instead of them making a game of a new and exciting genre that hasnt been done much previous.

Xonra3 votes

Welcome to the world of memory optimized applications. Client? Not optimized. Game? Optimized. Now ask yourself why Skype takes 130MB of memory when it has less than 10MB worth of assets loaded.

Nothing is really very optimized here. The reason this game isn't toaster friendly is, frankly, Riot's programmers aren't very good.

The game loads often slower, for the average user, then a Crysis multiplayer map.

Crysis 2 & 3 will be fairly playable on low spec machines that struggle to run LoL despite having an immensely higher asset count and quality, particle effects, environment, advanced lighting and shaders, etc.

In fact LoL has such simple assets that even with a fully loaded running match if it were running in a top tier game industry engine (Unreal/CryEngine/etc.) it should produce fps in the thousands on a single high end GPU setup if vsync were disabled (perhaps the artists didn't do a good job with the assets, I haven't looked, personally).

Let's not forget the lack of advanced shaders such as global illumination, DoF, etc. I would argue they aren't even utilizing extremely basic techniques such as instancing for particle optimization based on what I have seen of performance when fights break out across other user's hardware and my extra laptop that I pulled from storage.

They would have abandoned Adobe Air for a full DirectX client (which would take less then 2 months to develop and have ready to beta for a high quality client). It would not have an alternate client from the game and would instead have necessary features that tween/expand/pop up when activated (friends, profile, etc.).

That's because they are all about getting it done fast not getting it done right.

there is a reason Shen was broke for so long with his ult. they would "fix" it, exclaim it was fine then say a week later it was broke. It took like 6-8 months that he was disabled in the LCS because of his TP bug that they fixed it...which took someone new coming in, having to redo the HORRIBLE coding, and finally it worked.

Is the same reason their Network Infrastructure as a whole is one light sneeze away from catching on fire at any moment, because they did things the fast and easy way and now have to redo it all to make it normal let alone good.

When they first created...well everything it was so half assed, the client, the servers, the art assets (the first Summoner's rift compared to even the current one, not including the new one is just terribly terrible). They have a wave of new people the past year or so that look at stuff like code and do the O_O face at how much of a mess it is.

DUDE BRO4 votes

When you play Crysis, you're already in the Crysis game. When you play LoL, it has to launch the entire game from scratch. (The lobby client is completely separate from the game client)

Starting a LoL game is more comparable to starting Crysis from scratch off your desktop, and once it's oaded, THEN also loading the multiplayer map.

Xengre1 votes

When you play Crysis, you're already in the Crysis game. When you play LoL, it has to launch the entire game from scratch. (The lobby client is completely separate from the game client)

Starting a LoL game is more comparable to starting Crysis from scratch off your desktop, and once it's oaded, THEN also loading the multiplayer map.

This is inaccurate. The issue is loading assets into memory aside from an extremely minimal time setting up the DX window. When you reach the loading screen you are already in-game (and this takes a few second depending on hardware). Then it could take minutes to load for some users.

disregardable4 votes

I'd like to know why it takes so much ram. My 8 GB can seriously barely handle it, and they say the VU will need MORE?!

Zeurth10 votes

They said it'd need less..

disregardable2 votes

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/features/update-summoners-rift-headed-pbe At this very moment, the new map is more memory (RAM) intensive than the current map. See FAQs.

Onegarion1 votes

thats atm and probably why it hasn't been released yet. Just because its more now doesn't mean they won't change that for later. I'm not holding out that much but there is still the possibility.

Smalltoejoe1 votes

They planned to optimze it before taking it out of PBE

Onegarion2 votes

Thats what they said, but with Riot's record atm I'm not to thrilled overall in actual success. Until it happens though I'm with you in that its going to be 100% successful. I'm going to have blind optimism that it won't fail and it will actually work. I have no real basis on it overall since they haven't done this since I've been a player.

Also I realize my last line actually means the opposite of what I was trying to say lol. I meant that they are suppose to make it better and I'm not holding out on them failing, but there is the possibility lol.

PaperMache71 votes

That was 5 months ago, do you think they haven't optimized it since then? Anyone who has played the PBE (myself included) can tell you it runs better.

Hyrum Graff1 votes

That article is 5 months old, though.

CJ Riker1 votes

I'd like to know why it takes so much ram. My 8 GB can seriously barely handle it, and they say the VU will need MORE?!

The ram probably isn't your bottleneck. I can play on a 4G laptop.

gh3QSyeB2A3 votes

Every time I buy an item past 17 minutes in, I lag out for 15 seconds. I'm running a first gen i5 quad processor.

Szedeklevest2 votes

agreed, something needs to be done about the client

What Is Smite2 votes

In accordance to IainB85, yea reprogramming about 100+ champions on a direct X engine would be a nightmare but people fail to realize that Riot has connections to MANY COLLEGES around the US and they can easily dip into their budget to hire a team of 3rd-4th year comp engineers students along with some post grads to actually work on a new engine for the game and then release it to the open public. If some of you have seen the Resident Evil: Revelations 2 Gameinformer Magazine then you know there will soon be a bunch of new MOBA's coming out that run a better Engine than LoL and they are already optimized for multiplayer with smooth gameplay through syncing all connections to the game server. If Riot Games does not get their act together soon then they are heading towards bankruptcy in the next 2-3 years guaranteed.

CJ Riker1 votes

As a 5th year comp engineer, PLEEEEEEEASE don't suggest riot use college students. We know some cool tricks, but NONE of us 3-5th years have enough experience to create an engine.

What Is Smite1 votes

Well It wouldn't be a single college student working on an engine, it would be a collaboration of 20-30 including post grads that would develop the engine while the rest who were hired help with transitioning the servers and client onto the new engine. I understand that Direct X is a bit complicated, but I think that you as a 5th year student should be able to easily create a game engine, don't doubt yourself man, you can always end up surprising yourself when you least expect it.

Marthian1 votes

The game engine has nothing to do with popularity.

Padagi1 votes

Redoing the engine will cost millions of $'s and take at least a few years. They might have champions come out the other end of that pipeline a shell of their former selves, so they might require kit reworks or other such nonsense.

It's crazy to think they'll do anything but optimize the engine and VU many different parts of the game (already under way). You may have noticed the art direction also lends itself to being favorable in an older engine in that their "hand painted" art style can look great at various levels of PC graphics power, run better than average, and also not require an entirely new engine.

New engine is never going to happen until they decide to build a new version of League entirely.

Pajamasalad2 votes

This title. I can't stop giggling. wtf

w8XQUWkLAC2 votes

Riot has AWFUl programmers. You would think with the money they have they would make a more crisp and faster client.

The client is what is buggy and slows the shit down while playing.

Riot has the MONEY to do it, so hire programmers that are smart. Not these bafoons.

NIhGllXS6o1 votes

But still, to this day, the client takes up just as much memory as the game itself.

Why?

I'm surprised anyone has problems. My desktop is closing in on 8 years old now, and I could run 4 LoL games at one time and not have a problem. Pretty much always first to load, and never had any graphical hiccups in-game except when I'm recording with FRAPS.

Mah3sh6 votes

But still, to this day, the client takes up just as much memory as the game itself.

Why?

I'm surprised anyone has problems. My desktop is closing in on 8 years old now, and I could run 4 LoL games at one time and not have a problem. Pretty much always first to load, and never had any graphical hiccups in-game except when I'm recording with FRAPS.

What I'm running is about 3 years old but very outdated even by those standards, even so, I can play other AAA games fine on very low settings (Dishonored, Call of Duty, ect..). And yet, even with every other program closed, League still drops frames and the client still leaks harder than Edward Snowden, and with over $620 million in earnings in 2013, there really is no excuse for such poor optimization.

Migrañaboy3 votes

But still, to this day, the client takes up just as much memory as the game itself.

Why?

I'm surprised anyone has problems. My desktop is closing in on 8 years old now, and I could run 4 LoL games at one time and not have a problem. Pretty much always first to load, and never had any graphical hiccups in-game except when I'm recording with FRAPS.

What I'm running is about 3 years old but very outdated even by those standards, even so, I can play other AAA games fine on very low settings (Dishonored, Call of Duty, ect..). And yet, even with every other program closed, League still drops frames and the client still leaks harder than Edward Snowden, and with over $620 million in earnings in 2013, there really is no excuse for such poor optimization.

Money itself won-t magically bring the needed solutions.

Learnding5 votes

But still, to this day, the client takes up just as much memory as the game itself.

Why?

I'm surprised anyone has problems. My desktop is closing in on 8 years old now, and I could run 4 LoL games at one time and not have a problem. Pretty much always first to load, and never had any graphical hiccups in-game except when I'm recording with FRAPS.

What I'm running is about 3 years old but very outdated even by those standards, even so, I can play other AAA games fine on very low settings (Dishonored, Call of Duty, ect..). And yet, even with every other program closed, League still drops frames and the client still leaks harder than Edward Snowden, and with over $620 million in earnings in 2013, there really is no excuse for such poor optimization.

Money itself won-t magically bring the needed solutions.

Then how do you suggest problems be fixed? Go up to it and throw a hammer at it? You need money.

Money - > Solves Technical Issues - > Technical Issues Need Money - > Solving Issues Needs Programmers - > Programmers Need An Income - > Money

Flintfall2 votes

Paying the programmer more isn't going to help reduce the scope of the project, and adding more programmers to the job might only serve to bog down the project due to the coordination required for such a project.

Could you explain what happens between money -> solves technical issues because that would help me to better understand your perspective.

Padagi1 votes

Yes, please elaborate on Money -> Solves Technical Issues. Money doesn't solve technical issues, people do.

You can't just throw money at a problem and expect it to be fixed. Some problems take months to fix with large teams that are experience at working together.

SonyUSA4 votes

But still, to this day, the client takes up just as much memory as the game itself.

Why?

I'm surprised anyone has problems. My desktop is closing in on 8 years old now, and I could run 4 LoL games at one time and not have a problem. Pretty much always first to load, and never had any graphical hiccups in-game except when I'm recording with FRAPS.

What I'm running is about 3 years old but very outdated even by those standards, even so, I can play other AAA games fine on very low settings (Dishonored, Call of Duty, ect..). And yet, even with every other program closed, League still drops frames and the client still leaks harder than Edward Snowden, and with over $620 million in earnings in 2013, there really is no excuse for such poor optimization.

I really hate it when people throw around the term "memory leak". Please stop using it, you have no idea what it means if you think LoL has a memory leak (currently).

Junkο1 votes

"Toaster friendly"

I have 4 GB RAM (recommended is 1GB) and Riven Q and LB W hitting multiple units makes me lag

Drunk Rummate3 votes

"Toaster friendly"

I have 4 GB RAM (recommended is 1GB) and Riven Q and LB W hitting multiple units makes me lag

ram doesnt make your graphics card or your processor better.

Junkο2 votes

it does increase performance

Drunk Rummate1 votes

it does increase performance

It might barely, but if your bottleneck is GPU or PSU or CPU it's not going to help very much. There's only so much performance you can gain by adding RAM alone.

Padagi1 votes

it does increase performance

Just because assets are in memory (assuming you have enough memory, which you do), doesn't mean that your system can actually display those assets fluidly. You're very likely to be sorely lacking in GPU and CPU processing power. Let me guess.... No dedicated GPU and you're running outdated i3 or i5 CPU + onboard graphics?

There's your answer.

Skilliard1 votes

Even first generation i3's are enough to run LoL on intergrated graphics. I'm running a Pentium cpu on my laptop+ onboard graphics and I get 60 fps with shadows turned off.

It's old shit like pentium III's that will struggle to run LoL

Migrañaboy1 votes

it does increase performance

Just because assets are in memory (assuming you have enough memory, which you do), doesn't mean that your system can actually display those assets fluidly. You're very likely to be sorely lacking in GPU and CPU processing power. Let me guess.... No dedicated GPU and you're running outdated i3 or i5 CPU + onboard graphics?

There's your answer.

This thread is about toasters, perhaps in USA id really unlikely to found outdated computers with less than 2gb ram, but if you see the bigger picture...

Padagi1 votes

it does increase performance

Just because assets are in memory (assuming you have enough memory, which you do), doesn't mean that your system can actually display those assets fluidly. You're very likely to be sorely lacking in GPU and CPU processing power. Let me guess.... No dedicated GPU and you're running outdated i3 or i5 CPU + onboard graphics?

There's your answer.

This thread is about toasters, perhaps in USA id really unlikely to found outdated computers with less than 2gb ram, but if you see the bigger picture...

Point taken. I'll give you that.

I'm onboard with optimization but I'm just wondering how far they can go without sacrificing overall quality at the high end.

Drunk Rummate1 votes

while i enjoy this game i have to say there are lots of ridiculous issues with the client and servers that annoy me. constant server lag is one thing, but the amount of bugs they have in their client alone is borderline absurd.

the number of times my game has crashed while loading in, or simply crashed while i was in the game is crazy high. even little details like how the mouse can get frozen on the resize arrow if you have it hovering over the edge of the client and move it too quickly. it's not a very professional look for a game that has so much money sunk into it.

Padagi1 votes

To be quite frank, this game is already optimized in a way that allows people with really awful computers play. It's intended to target the widest audience possible, so this really makes sense.

People mostly don't have issues with memory. You can find on-the-cheap options with 8 GB of RAM easily. The problem is graphics and CPU. Slow load times and low FPS are attributed to this.

I don't want to sound rude but the game is already extremely forgiving on low-end PC's and so to be fair, there's basically zero room to complain about this topic. If you can't run this game, you basically can't run any Steam games either.

Professor LOL1 votes

Fun Game: Try to see how much memory you can get the client to take up. Every page you visit increases it, and it doesn't really drop down again until you restart it. I've gotten mine up to around 900,000kb

Hrud1 votes

I discovered funny things while fiddling with the graphical settings of the game.

For instance, at the highest settings, I get huge framerate drops when some particular skills are used ( Requiem...) or when a lot of skills are used at the same time out of nowhere. ( Think their whole team coming out from a bush to rape me.)

So, you know, I figured, who needs a beautiful League? I just want to have a stable fps. I tried the game on the lowest possible graphical setting.

Turns out it makes my screen crash with weird graphic bugs every game.

So now I run League on medium. :z

iainB851 votes

Oh, the engine is definitely a problem. I simply meant the assets may be making the problem worse if they weren't properly created (excess vertex/polygons, lack of low poly sculptures based on a high res model, etc.). The number of champions and game mechanics has no impact on a graphics overhaul. It was one thing as a small developer but now with their nearly one billion earnings for 2014 and they still have programmers who perform worse then your above average indie coder... and its depressing. The Ashe skill swap bug just showed how bad it was (this is a glitch that came from excruciatingly poor programming that many senior level college students would have known better then to do). They tried to do a graphics overhaul in the past, Project Shiny, which was required for their Magma Chamber plans but their team was not up to the challenge. :/ Since then they haven't made any serious effort on this front. Sad too, considering their employees get very well paid.

Making the art assets better quality does not have an impact on gameplay, you are correct. That is what they currently do with their VU updates.

However, to do more advanced shading techniques like you described, it's probable that they'd need to overhaul their entire engine from the code base level, or move to a completely new one. Their current rendering engine probably just can't handle it.

If that's the case, then their existing code base for 100 + champions and how all abilities need to interact with each other would be a major problem, as their existing champion code may not port over to a new engine, etc.

0AppleJuice01 votes

You read my mind. I was wondering this as well. Just not that long ago. I am glad I read this at least someone else knows what I am thinking!

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