I got a 2 week ban for having ONE bad game. Riot themselves said so in a ticket.

1YYHpfoW1N··9 votes·4,451 views

Shortly after Riot implemented their auto ban system, I got an automatic 2 week game ban after having one bad ranked game. I flamed back at someone who started flaming me, and mean things were said on both sides. I usually don't even talk that much during games, and this was pretty much an isolated situation. I know it was automatic because my account was banned literally less than 5 minutes after that game ended. (I was in queue for another game, I got kicked out of champ select because of the auto ban)

I've been playing this game since the beginning of Season 2, and have never got as much as a chat restriction before. Never even gotten a single one of those popups that say "everyone has bad games, try not to rage at people". Never gotten ranked restricted. I know that people receive automatic warnings when they get reported, I never received anything of the sort ever.

I didn't say anything homophobic, sexist, racist, I didn't tell anyone to die, I didn't wish cancer upon anyone. Quoting what Lyte said himself,

Players that have received escalated bans (so 7-day or 14-day bans) for excessive toxicity at any point during the 2015 Season will not receive Ranked Rewards. Players that have received these types of bans have shown some of the most egregious behaviors in the game, and we have a zero tolerance policy against things like racism, sexism, homophobia and other kinds of hate speech.

I highly doubt anything I said that game was anywhere close to the realms of "excessive toxicity". I know players who rage all the time, players who have had multiple chat restrictions and ranked restrictions. Somehow I receive a 2 week ban after one game. I've submitted a ticket to Riot about it. At most it should be a chat restriction or ranked restriction, not a 2 week ban with no warning. I've asked repeatedly to see chat logs that demonstrates this "extreme toxicity" from other games, which they refused to provide. After getting my ticket transferred around for 2 weeks, Riot support basically told me that the one game was enough to warrant a 2 week ban.

Direct quote from the ticket:

The behavior that was found in this match was negative enough to warrant a 2-week suspension and we hope that you can utilize the time to reflect on the behavior exhibited.

And of course, here's the chat log they provided me from that game. For context, the jungler (khazix) in my game started the game off by being toxic when he gave first blood 5 minutes into the game. Along the lines of "gg shit mid we lost already it's over". All I did was ask my support to stop leaving me in lane (and yes, I could've said it in a nicer way). I didn't start flaming until the Khazix and Nami started flaming me.

Once again, I'm not denying that I was being toxic that game, I'm arguing that my "toxicity" was only one game, and it's not bad enough to warrant a 2 week ban off the bat.

Like Lyte said,

We always want to encourage reform, and celebrate players that successfully reform by the end of the season.

I didn't care about the ban that much before, but now that it's been announced that people who have been banned can't receive 2015 seasonal rewards, it matters. I had one bad game, and my "warning" was a 2 week ban that now prevents me from earning seasonal rewards. I have had no chance to "reform", which I feel is extremely unfair.'

EDIT: To sum up my points:

  1. This one game was not enough to warrant a 2 week ban. I would consider this "moderate" toxicity to use your terms, since "excessive" means I was using sexist/racial/homophobic slurs and throwing out death threats.
  2. I do believe that this was an isolated situation, if I have chat logs of this sort in other games, please show me.
  3. Lyte says,

"Chat Restrictions are typically applied to accounts that persistently show low to moderate chat toxicity over a large number of games."

So even if I had more games with moderate toxicity, it should still be under a chat restriction, not a 2 week ban.

128 Comments

Radnar the bold9 votes

I think you deserved a chat ban, but then again that could be the most toxic game out of a multitude of games. The reports stack up until one report puts you over the edge. When they say "this game caused a two week ban" the dont mean that game only, they mean thats the game that put you over the edge for a ban.

Sniper 01 votes

[{quoted}](name=Radnar the bold,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=1thfGrZa,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-08-27T16:50:33.914+0000)

I think you deserved a chat ban, but then again that could be the most toxic game out of a multitude of games. The reports stack up until one report puts you over the edge. When they say "this game caused a two week ban" the dont mean that game only, they mean thats the game that put you over the edge for a ban.

Yah, he's probably consistently toxic daily.

Radnar the bold4 votes

I mean he went for 0-60 really fast, or was that just me that saw that? The nami probably afk cause he raged at her immediately.

Sniper 04 votes

I noticed but that wasn't something to warrant a ban. It seems like he does this a lot. Quick tempered, etc

We all have toxic games but if you're limiting that to maybe one bad game every few days it shouldn't be an issue. His ramp time was fast... I also dunno if that was the full log.

Ehh you deserved the ban but I'm not gonna kick you in the teeth over it. @op

Sniper 02 votes

I've received warnings in the past when I was having a particularly bad day and had like 2-3 toxic games that day.. They do give you a preemptive warnings. You get plenty of warning in advance.

Radnar the bold3 votes

If he went from 0-60 thats fast, then it doesnt seem like this was a one time thing. Usualy when I get mad (even its takes me awhile to get flamed hard).

then again he talks about ashe having her ult, so that means its level 6 or higher so maybe the nami was annoying him early game and he had enough. Still I think it should be a chat ban.

1YYHpfoW1N2 votes

And I agree that something like this probably deserved a chat ban.

If what you said is the case, then how come I received no warnings? In my ticket to Riot I've asked multiple times for chat logs of other games where I was displaying "toxicity", which they ignored and refused to provide, and in the end just told me this one game as enough. How would I know what they consider as toxicity if they don't tell me, or I've never received something as simple as a popup telling me what I said was considered toxic?

Radnar the bold4 votes

usually if you are toxic over a long period then you will get a warning, but if you are toxic in alot of games, in a short period, then the ban will happen without a warning.

think of it like this. If I get a speeding ticket once a month, then they will give me a warning, then a higher punishment, then a higher punishment, but its a slow build.

Yet if I get five speeding tickets in one week, then their is no warning but a severe punishment. (not the best example, but its close)

Still I see only a chat ban

1YYHpfoW1N2 votes

I don't believe I was ever excessively reported. I have been in games when players report someone who was being toxic, and I'm guessing those people get automatic pop up notifications when that happen because they would ask in post game chat who reported him.

I don't even know how that works, so I'm assuming I've never gotten player reported to that extent. Like I said, I would very much like Riot to step in and actually tell me why I was banned. If it is due to multiple cases of me being toxic, then show me the toxic logs, and my question would be why was I never given a single warning?

Sniper 07 votes

You directly harassed another player consistently... What is hard to understand about your ban? Also, where does it say this was your first offense?

MilfHuntUnitXJ94 votes

I dont believe this was your first offense, but if you can find some proof i'd be happy to believe you. They dont shell out 2 week bans just like that, and coming on the forums won't help, it would be better for you if you sent a ticket to support.

1YYHpfoW1N2 votes

The reason I'm posting on the boards is because sending a ticket was completely useless. My ticket got transferred around for two weeks and then they replied by telling me what I said in that one game was enough to warrant a two week ban, which is why I am bringing it to the forums.

I'm not really sure how else I can prove to you this was my first offense, I would love to provide proof of that if it was possible. That is the reason why I'm bringing this to the forums, because they just shelled me a 2 week ban with 0 prior warnings or lesser punishments.

The only way I can prove that is have a Riot employee step in.

warm fuzzy socks4 votes

I think the only thing this person is asking for is chat logs that demonstrates 2 week ban worthy during that time period. Riot support didnt provide it, so this person is trying to get attention by asking for it here which is pretty reasonable if the first way is not working. Once chat logs are posted, this thread will be over

The punishment has already been carried out. This person seems to care now that seasonal rewards are on the line. I too would like to see the logs

Sarutobi3 votes

why do you feel you need to be warned of your behavior. its not that hard to remain civil. Just because people are toxic doesnt give you the right to do it back to them. that solves nothing and just irritates the other players in your games!

1YYHpfoW1N2 votes

Because there's a reason why there's so many tiers of punishment- first you get a warning, then you get a chat restriction, then you get ranked restriction, then there's the 7 day ban, and then the 14 day ban.

If this was my first offense, then there are a bunch of other lesser punishments that they could've handed to me without warning and that would be okay, and that would've been considered a "warning" in itself. But they escalated the punishment immediately to a 2 week ban.

That's like saying if a kid stole a piece of candy from the supermarket, he deserves jail time. Not a slap on a wrist, not an apology letter, not paying back the $1, not grounding.

I'm not arguing that I wasn't being toxic, and I know I shouldn't have retaliated, I'm saying this punishment is MUCH harsher than it should've been for a first time offense.

Jubbinaut1 votes

{quoted}

Because there's a reason why there's so many tiers of punishment- first you get a warning, then you get a chat restriction, then you get ranked restriction, then there's the 7 day ban, and then the 14 day ban.

Riot hasn't used a stepping-stone punishment scale since the Tribunal was taken down. They've focused, instead, on targeting punishments to fit the person and the behavior in question.

1YYHpfoW1N1 votes

So in your opinion by looking at the chat logs I provided, that warranted a 2 week ban?

Radnar the bold1 votes

{quoted}

So in your opinion by looking at the chat logs I provided, that warranted a 2 week ban?

The issue I think everyone is having is that, yes it is only one game, but this could be the same flaming you are doing in other games. Warrented, I still can see how it can get banned, and for the future, save the "Report X" for the post chat, because riot doesnt like it when people spam that in the game.

1YYHpfoW1N1 votes

Let's say that everyone is right, I am delusional, and I am toxic in all my games. Why is it so hard then, for Riot to provide me with chat logs when I ask for them in a ticket? I wouldn't be here making a case if Riot can just provide me that in my ticket. This whole entire thread wouldn't even exist. I, like everyone else, am having a hard time believing that, and a simple chat log from those games can easily prove it.

Radnar the bold2 votes

Takes the system awhile, but dont worry they should shed lyte on the matter.

Rand0mH3r0X3 votes

This isn't a new behavior. I refuse to believe you haven't been warned before.

You get what you deserve, and sympathy is not. Don't flame the supports, you are not squad leader, and act like you have some respect for people, like you would have if you met them in person.

1YYHpfoW1N2 votes

If I can prove I've never received a single warning, I WOULD. I would love it if a Riot employee and step in right now and prove to everyone that I never received any warnings.

Don't flame the supports

You know that I actually main support, right? Look up my ranked games. If you actually read the chat logs, I didn't flame the Nami. All I did was ask her twice to not leave me in lane. I wasn't the one who started flaming. Like I said, this chat log would read a LOT differently if Riot actually provided context to what your teammates are saying as well.

Jubbinaut4 votes

{quoted}

You know that I actually main support, right? Look up my ranked games. If you actually read the chat logs, I didn't flame the Nami. All I did was ask her twice to not leave me in lane. I wasn't the one who started flaming. Like I said, this chat log would read a LOT differently if Riot actually provided context to what your teammates are saying as well.

I don't understand how you can consider "nami for the fucking love of god stop fucking leaving me" as not flaming. And that's your 4th and 5th lines (or at least the 4th and 5th in the image you posted).

1YYHpfoW1N2 votes

If you're reading the chat logs, you can see I asked her once before that. And yes, I asked her a second time in a not so nice way, which I agree could've been said more nicely. **Even still, that is not worthy of a 2 week ban. **

Maybe we have different views on what flaming means. That was me asking her with profanity because I was frustrated since it was the third time it happened (which I could've left out so it would've read as "Nami for the love of god stop leaving me". That is NOT flaming.

Flaming would be something like "Nami you are a shitty support, you suck, go uninstall" which I never resorted to until they started flaming me first. Like I said, I know flaming in retaliation was not the right thing to do, but it does't warrant a 2 week ban.

Jubbinaut1 votes

{quoted}

If you're reading the chat logs, you can see I asked her once before that. And yes, I asked her a second time in a not so nice way, which I agree could've been said more nicely. **Even still, that is not worthy of a 2 week ban. **

I didn't say it was. Because by itself, it's probably not. But it's not by itself.

Maybe we have different views on what flaming means. That was me asking her with profanity because I was frustrated since it was the third time it happened (which I could've left out so it would've read as "Nami for the love of god stop leaving me". That is NOT flaming.

The thing about profanity is that it's not inherently bad. It's heavily dependent on when and how it's used. But, it's capable of completely changing the tone of a statement. A couple examples:

"Nami for the love of god stop leaving me," reads like someone desperately begging. "Nami for the fucking love of god stop fucking leaving me," reads like someone yelling in fury.

"did you see that ult?" reads almost entirely neutral - no emotional connotation at all. "Holy shit, did you see that ult?" reads like someone expressing amazement, shock, and/or surprise.

So while profanity isn't problematic in and of itself, it can turn relatively innocuous statements into entirely new things - like turning pleading into flaming.

1YYHpfoW1N1 votes

I completely agree with what you said about profanity changing the tone of things. And yes, I was both begging her not to leave me, and I was frustrated that she was leaving me. While all that is true, profanity in my opinion deserves chat restriction maybe, but not a ban.

I didn't say it was. Because by itself, it's probably not. But it's not by itself.

This whole thread can be easily avoided if Riot would have just provided me chat logs in my ticket. The reason I'm bringing it here is because I honestly do believe it's by itself. Riot can easily end this discussing by just providing the chat logs I want.

Jubbinaut3 votes

{quoted}

I completely agree with what you said about profanity changing the tone of things. And yes, I was both begging her not to leave me, and I was frustrated that she was leaving me. While all that is true, profanity in my opinion deserves chat restriction maybe, but not a ban.

Profanity itself deserves nothing. Which is fortunate for me, or I'd've long since been banned, since I use profanity liberally when speaking conversationally - like when I'm in-game.

This whole thread can be easily avoided if Riot would have just provided me chat logs in my ticket. The reason I'm bringing it here is because I honestly do believe it's by itself. Riot can easily end this discussing by just providing the chat logs I want.

You seem to be misunderstanding the purpose of chat logs.

They don't send those logs to prove to you that their bans are "valid." They send them so that you know what types of behaviors to avoid in order to prevent future sanctions. Nothing more, nothing less.

Which means unless other games of toxicity show significantly different behavior, there's no real point to issuing additional logs. And that's rarely the case.

1YYHpfoW1N2 votes

Profanity itself deserves nothing. Which is fortunate for me, or I'd've long since been banned, since I use profanity liberally when speaking conversationally - like when I'm in-game.

I agree, I do this too.

Which means unless other games of toxicity show significantly different behavior, there's no real point to issuing additional logs. And that's rarely the case.

If that is the case, then I seriously welcome them to Lyte smite this because I truly believe the toxicity displayed in this specific game is an isolated situation.

Jubbinaut2 votes

{quoted}

If that is the case, then I seriously welcome them to Lyte smite this because I truly believe the toxicity displayed in this specific game is an isolated situation.

I don't. The other games may not have been this bad, but they certainly exist.

Rand0mH3r0X2 votes

Consider this, if you want to bi+++ at people, sometimes it makes people do what you want. But, you don't possess effective communication yet. Study Steve Jobs's communcation style, how he knew when to seduce people with his words, and lay the hammer down when needed. You don't know how to effectively communicate with people, therefore you cannot be a team leader because you don't know how to manage subordinates. Trying to take over a game by making people do what you want them to is not what LoL is; LoL is about cooperation and teamwork. Everyone operates on their own free will, so manipulation will be the only way you can get someone to do what you want.

Take this two week suspension to elevate your people skills. You don't have to be a great person to be a good guy.

nerak233 votes

OP you have done your homework and wrote a thought out post about why someone should address you. Here is a bump for you. We may not agree on what deserves a punishment but I do think you made a good point and if you want a review well I'm all for it. GL then. LOL not that my opinions matters about such things, just saying ;)

1YYHpfoW1N2 votes

Bump, can I please have a Riot employee reply to this? Since Riot refused to provide chat logs in my ticket (#17274763), I'm bringing this to the boards for exposure. I'd really much rather have someone from Riot message me privately.

Obviously everyone here agrees that:

  1. There's no way I received a two week ban off the bat with no prior warnings or lesser punishments, so I must be lying about it, and

  2. Though the behavior displayed in this match was toxic, it's not enough to warrant a two week ban on its own, so I must be lying about being extremely toxic in all my other games.

If it's the former, then I hope there's a good explanation as to WHY I have never received a single warning of any sort or lesser punishment prior to this ban.

If it's the latter, then please show me chat logs that display this "excessive toxicity". I've seen Riot give out stats on the percentage of games a player was toxic in and reported for, so why don't you show me my stats? And the number one question still applies: **Why no prior warning? ** Riot talks so much about "reform" and how the majority of people stop being toxic after receiving a chat/ranked restriction. If I was supposedly being "excessively toxic" in all my other games, then show me proof, and tell me why I was never even given that chance.

Here are some quotes from other forums/threads that display behavior from other players with MUCH more toxicity, yet somehow they received a bunch of warnings prior to yet another chat restriction/ban.

Some player:

"I admit I was a bit toxic in season 2/3. Season 4 I played much less and I think my behavior was much better, still got chat restriction and ranked game suspension (75 games, 25 draft wins) and was denied of chat logs when I asked for them. Fast forward 7 months (?) finally I get off all the restrictions. I try to be as nice as possible and I don't remember being any toxic in these 3 weeks without any restriction. Today I login and receive another 75 chat ban restriction. "

From Lyte:

"A team member checked your case, and it doesn't look like you've reformed and are living up to your name. For example, you've received over 300 Intentional Feeding Reports and 250 Offensive Language Reports, and the reports tend to be accurate. You're reported in 23% of your games in the last few weeks, and most of the reports are confirmed by the team as legitimate. However, the reason you're getting chat restrictions/ranked restrictions instead of game bans or harsher penalties is because your negative behaviors aren't TOO severe but they are close to getting you flagged for harsh penalties so please tone it down. I've attached examples of games from just the last 2 weeks that led to your current new chat/ranked restriction."

Another player: "I have significantly improved my behavior months before the new Reform system. I asked Riot in a support ticket for chat logs, and they are refusing to give them to me. I know I was toxic in the past for sure, but like I said I have been positive for months. **I received 75 chat restrictions, and 35 ranked restrictions. **All I want are chat logs."

Lyte quotes him:

"ur a dumbass", "i did that moron", "bard stfu about my build", "ur so bad", "ur shit", "are u stupid", "ur ass" This was over the course 3 games, and this player has received prior warnings/punishments, and his current contested punishment is only yet another chat restriction and ranked restriction.

Yet another player with multiple chat restriction warnings:

I just made a thread on here saying that i have changed after i finished my 76 chat restrictions, I belived i changed as well. So i played a game and said nothing but positive things. even to the other team.

But no.

84 chat restrictions.

Lyte:

Your behavior isn't negative enough to warrant escalation to heavy bans like 14-days or permanent bans yet, but I don't see any evidence that your behavior is improving--it's getting worse over time, which is why you're getting more and more chat restrictions. Quotes from the behavior of that player, who received first a 76 game chat restriction, followed by a 84 game chat restriction: "you are feeding. stop talking", "we lost gg this team is so trash", "dont worry, i heard they are homosexua ls", "cause gey people OBVIOUSLY play worse then straights people", "gg baddies", "this ahri is so bad 2 damit"

Another player with 3 consecutive ranked/chat bans

Once again, I am NOT using these examples to justify my actions. I understand that what I said was wrong, I am using these examples to show that there have been multiple cases where other players have displayed the same, if not even more toxic behavior across multiple games compared to my one game, and these are people who have received at least one or more chat restrictions in the past, and are complaining about getting another chat/ranked restriction. All I'm asking for is proof that I've ever been "excessively toxic", and to be judged and treated fairly.

Jubbinaut1 votes

{quoted}

Obviously everyone here agrees that:

  1. There's no way I received a two week ban off the bat with no prior warnings or lesser punishments, so I must be lying about it, and

It's fully possible that you received a two week ban with no prior punishments, and with no warnings.

  1. Though the behavior displayed in this match was toxic, it's not enough to warrant a two week ban on its own, so I must be lying about being extremely toxic in all my other games.

You continue to massively exaggerate, here. You needn't be extremely toxic in all your games to receive a ban. It's perfectly possible to receive a ban merely by being moderately toxic in many of them. Which is what I've been trying to indicate.

1YYHpfoW1N1 votes

It's perfectly possible to receive a ban merely by being moderately toxic in many of them.

Without warning?

And once again, I linked multiple examples of players who have been way more than "moderately toxic" in their games and all they receive are chat restrictions. And once again, Riot has yet to prove that I've been "moderately toxic" in multiple games other than the one game they show.

And the reason why I'm exaggerate the term "excessive toxicity" is because that is the term that Riot is using, while telling me in a ticket that that is the reason why I'm banned with no warning. You just restated my second point, where I want to see evidence of the so called toxicity in my multiple games.

Jubbinaut1 votes

{quoted}

Without warning?

Yes. As I've also tried to indicate.

And once again, I linked multiple examples of players who have been way more than "moderately toxic" in their games and all they receive are chat restrictions. And once again, Riot has yet to prove that I've been "moderately toxic" in multiple games other than the one game they show.

Riot has no need to prove that you've been any kind of toxic in any kind of games. Actually, they have no need to prove anything to you. They don't send logs because of some external requirement, but because they believe - and I agree - that understanding what behaviors led to the sanction will help you avoid future sanctions. That's all.

And the reason why I'm exaggerate the term "excessive toxicity" is because that is the term that Riot is using, while telling me in a ticket that that is the reason.

That's interesting. I looked over both the ticket response and your Reform Card just now, and neither uses the word "excessive" at all.

Even so, I think you're misunderstanding the intent of the word. There are two possible meanings:

  • Excessive intensity - which you're heavily focused on, and represents particularly harsh language and statements (often summarized as hate speech, death threats, and the like).
  • Excessive frequency - which you've completely dismissed as a possibility, yet is by far the more likely intent of the term.

If you were being excessively (read "highly intense") toxic in all of your games, you wouldn't have taken so long to receive a 2-week ban. Or, if by some miracle you did, it wouldn't have been a mere 2 weeks - it would have been a permaban.

On the other hand, if you were merely mildly (report calls, "ggez," others that might be classified as "irritating") to moderately (flaming, insults, targeted language, etc.) toxic in many of your games (say 10-12%), you may have seemed fine for quite some time - until the system caught notice of it, and issued a 2-week ban, as those games warranted.

1YYHpfoW1N1 votes

I'm not sure why you feel the need to explain everything to me. I understand and agree with everything you said. My problem is that like you said, I want to see chat logs because I honestly don't understand what they deem as toxic apparently. How am I expected to reform, if I have no idea what it is that they considered toxic in my other games. 'Excessive" is used by Lyte himself in his quote. I do not think I meet either of the meanings you defined.

Jubbinaut3 votes

{quoted}

I'm not sure why you feel the need to explain everything to me. I understand and agree with everything you said.

Except that your claims and questions would tend to indicate otherwise. If my explanations bother you, I apologize, but I'm trying to answer your questions to the best of my ability.

My problem is that like you said, I want to see chat logs because I honestly don't understand what they deem as toxic apparently.

Then take a close look at the game you were given. Avoid those behaviors. That was the point of sending you that log, after all.

How am I expected to reform, if I have no idea what it is that they considered toxic in my other games. 'Excessive" is used by Lyte himself in his quote. I do not think I meet either of the meanings you defined.

So you never call for reports? You've never insulted another player? You've never made a comment about how terrible your team is? You've never expressed general negativity regarding the game you're playing? You've never done any of the things that one log shows before that one game?

I find that hard to believe.

1YYHpfoW1N1 votes

Then take a close look at the game you were given. Avoid those behaviors. That was the point of sending you that log, after all.

Are you reading what I've been saying at all? I've already admitted to being toxic that game. I don't have an issue with that chat log. My point is that that was the only game, which by itself does not deserve a 2 week ban. If what everyone is saying is correct, and that Riot is accusing me of being toxic enough in all my games that collectively added up to warrant a 2 week ban, then I want to see chats of those accusations.

So you never call for reports? You've never insulted another player? You've never made a comment about how terrible your team is? You've never expressed general negativity regarding the game you're playing? You've never done any of the things that one log shows before that one game?

If any of those actions you mentioned deserves a 2 week ban, then the majority of everyone playing this game should be banned. I find it hard to believe that no one has done any of those at least once at some point.

By the way, this was just another Lyte smite from this morning. Lyte himself says:

Chat Restrictions are typically applied to accounts that persistently show low to moderate chat toxicity over a large number of games.

So going back to what you were saying a few comments up:

On the other hand, if you were merely mildly (report calls, "ggez," others that might be classified as "irritating") to moderately (flaming, insults, targeted language, etc.) toxic in many of your games (say 10-12%), you may have seemed fine for quite some time - until the system caught notice of it, and issued a 2-week ban, as those games warranted.

We're going to assume that I wasn't excessively toxic in all my games, because it would then be a miracle that I haven't gotten banned already in 3 years of playing. So let's just say that I've been mildly to moderately toxic in all my games. Even what YOU would have considered an eventual 2 week ban only warrants a chat restriction according to Lyte himself.

I agree what I did that game deserves some form of chat restriction, but not something as severe as a 2 week ban. That is all I am saying. And I am basing that off of the multiple cases I have pulled up with players that have had similar issues. If I was above "moderately" toxic in all my games, then show me chat logs, because I honestly do not believe it. That is all I am asking for. I did not want this to be a forum discussion, I would much rather have someone from Riot privately message me. I don't really see any other way though, since Riot refuses to respond to me.

Jubbinaut3 votes

{quoted}

Are you reading what I've been saying at all? I've already admitted to being toxic that game. I don't have an issue with that chat log.

You admit to being toxic in that game, and then you immediately turn around and say you don't understand what they deem toxic.

So I'm left to wonder whether you're reading what I'm saying. Because my point there seems to have flown past you.

You were given an example of your toxicity, expressly so that you could use it to recognize what types of behavior are considered toxic. They gave you the tool. It's up to you to make use of it.

My point is that that was the only game, which by itself does not deserve a 2 week ban. If what everyone is saying is correct, and that Riot is accusing me of being toxic enough in all my games that collectively added up to warrant a 2 week ban, then I want to see chats of those accusations.

I have yet to see anyone claim that you were toxic in all of your games.

I myself have repeatedly stated - and implied - that you were not toxic in all of your games, but rather only in some of them - enough to warrant a ban.

And as I've also repeatedly stated, demanding to see ALL of the chats in your case is - frankly - pointless. It also demonstrates a deep misunderstanding of the purpose of those logs.

You still think they're providing proof of the validity of your ban. They aren't. They're simply offering you a tool by which to learn how to avoid future bans. Nothing more. Nothing less.

If any of those actions you mentioned deserves a 2 week ban, then the majority of everyone playing this game should be banned. I find it hard to believe that no one has done any of those at least once at some point.

All of those behaviors are considered toxic. However, not every toxic behavior warrants an immediate 2 week ban, and I neither stated nor implied that any of those behaviors - in and of themselves - warranted a 2 week ban.

However, persistent behaviors of those types can result in a 2 week ban. Most players will never see a problem, because most players do not engage in those behaviors persistently.

But I have to admit, I like how you dodged my question, and ignored the point behind it. Well done.

We're going to assume that I wasn't excessively toxic in all my games, because it would then be a miracle that I haven't gotten banned already in 3 years of playing. So let's just say that I've been mildly to moderately toxic in all my games. Even what YOU would have considered an eventual 2 week ban only warrants a chat restriction according to Lyte himself.

Y'know that word "typically" is pretty meaningful in his statement. It indicates a lack of the exact type of absolutist claim that you're applying to the statement.

Typically, such behaviors warrant chat restrictions. In some situations, however, they can instead lead to harsher punishments.

I did not want this to be a forum discussion, I would much rather have someone from Riot privately message me. I don't really see any other way though, since Riot refuses to respond to me.

A Support ticket is the only meaningful way to privately discuss a situation such as this with Riot.

In your support ticket, you were told exactly what behaviors to avoid - no different than what you're being told here.

The problem, as I see it, isn't with Support, nor is it with the people trying to discuss it with you. It's with your own unwillingness to accept what you're being told, and your determination to misinterpret it.

1YYHpfoW1N1 votes

You admit to being toxic in that game, and then you immediately turn around and say you don't understand what they deem toxic.

Sorry, I was unclear in that previous comment I made. Let me rephrase: I was toxic in that one game. However, I do not understand what they had deemed as toxic in all my other games. Like I said, I believe that game was an isolated situation, and if it didn't take that one game to get a 2 week ban, then I would like to see exactly what else had "triggered" the system to warrant a 2 week ban, because I do not think I had ever said anything similar to what was displayed in that one game.

I have yet to see anyone claim that you were toxic in all of your games.

"I cannot believe that you do not act this way on a regular basis." "You're clearly toxic in that game and I have no incentive to think you aren't in your other games." "usually if you are toxic over a long period then you will get a warning, but if you are toxic in alot of games, in a short period, then the ban will happen without a warning."

All my games, most of my games, a lot of my games, same meaning of "you do this consistently".

Also, I didn't dodge your question, it's pretty much implied that everyone (including you and me) at some point have done one or more of the things you listed. Which if done persistently, typically results in a chat ban. What makes my case so special then, if it didn't fall into the typical category? If Riot decides to hand everyone who displays similar behavior a chat ban, and I'm the only one who somehow got a 2 week ban, am I not allowed to ask for clarification? I want to know what made my specific case different than others that resulted in a 2 week ban. I honestly do not know, and you obviously can't tell me either. So yes, that is why I am requesting chat logs from the games that made my situation atypical, because I do not have repeated offenses of what was provided in my one game, and I do not know what exactly made my case so special that I somehow ended up with a 2 week ban instead.

In some situations, however, they can instead lead to harsher punishments.

So is this now some sort of crappy lottery, where if I displayed similar behavior to those who got chat banned, I was the lucky one they chose to get 2 week banned instead? There is a reason, I just want to know what that reason is.

You are ignoring all the cases I've pulled up with players displaying much worse behavior, which resulted in multiple chat bans and ranked ban warnings. If my situation falls out of this typical punishment that is handed out, then I can only assume that my behavior was somehow MUCH worse than those displayed, which I do not agree with. If you can't show me where I have stepped out of line to warrant harsher punishments than everyone else, then I have no idea how else to reform. Because everyone else who have displayed that type of behavior only seem to receive chat restrictions.

A Support ticket is the only meaningful way to privately discuss a situation such as this with Riot.

In your support ticket, you were told exactly what behaviors to avoid - no different than what you're being told here.

Except after 2 weeks of copypasta responses and getting my ticket transferred around, I was finally told that my one game was enough to warrant a two week ban. And the behavior in that one game, like I've said, isn't enough to warrant that punishment, and it wasn't something I've done regularly.

Jubbinaut2 votes

{quoted}

Sorry, I was unclear in that previous comment I made. Let me rephrase: I was toxic in that one game. However, I do not understand what they had deemed as toxic in all my other games. Like I said, I believe that game was an isolated situation, and if it didn't take that one game to get a 2 week ban, then I would like to see exactly what else had "triggered" the system to warrant a 2 week ban, because I do not think I had ever said anything similar to what was displayed in that one game.

You haven't? Then why is it that you say "it's pretty much implied that everyone (including you and me) at some point have done one or more of the things you listed..."? Because the things I listed are the things I saw in your log.

Seems to me that you've contradicted yourself. So which is it?

"I cannot believe that you do not act this way on a regular basis." "You're clearly toxic in that game and I have no incentive to think you aren't in your other games." "usually if you are toxic over a long period then you will get a warning, but if you are toxic in alot of games, in a short period, then the ban will happen without a warning."

All my games, most of my games, a lot of my games, same meaning of "you do this consistently".

Sure. Because that's how the system works. But I think there's a world of difference between "regular bases" or "other games" or "a lot of games" and "all games."

Specifically, the first 3 could mean anywhere from 10-50% of your games. The last means - by definition - 100% of your games.

The system only punishes for single games based on hate speech, death threats, and other similarly heinous language. I don't see any of those things in your logs, so it wasn't for that. Which means you have other games out there where you show similar behaviors.

Also, I didn't dodge your question, it's pretty much implied that everyone (including you and me) at some point have done one or more of the things you listed. Which if done persistently, typically results in a chat ban. What makes my case so special then, if it didn't fall into the typical category? If Riot decides to hand everyone who displays similar behavior a chat ban, and I'm the only one who somehow got a 2 week ban, am I not allowed to ask for clarification? I want to know what made my specific case different than others that resulted in a 2 week ban. I honestly do not know, and you obviously can't tell me either. So yes, that is why I am requesting chat logs from the games that made my situation atypical, because I do not have repeated offenses of what was provided in my one game, and I do not know what exactly made my case so special that I somehow ended up with a 2 week ban instead.

Your case isn't special. It's just like 80-90% of other ban cases. You're simply misinterpreting what's being told to you. You're also misrepresenting Lyte's statement, there.

He said that it's typical of chat restrictions that they are applied to persistent low-to-moderate toxicity.

He did not say that it is typical of persistently low-to-moderately toxic accounts that they receive chat restrictions.

There's a world of difference between those two statements.

So is this now some sort of crappy lottery, where if I displayed similar behavior to those who got chat banned, I was the lucky one they chose to get 2 week banned instead? There is a reason, I just want to know what that reason is.

It's one of two reasons:

  • Your behavior was more aggressive than theirs.
  • Your behavior was more persistent than theirs.

It's really that simple. It's not a lottery. It's a sliding double-scale.

You are ignoring all the cases I've pulled up with players displaying much worse behavior, which resulted in multiple chat bans and ranked ban warnings. If my situation falls out of this typical punishment that is handed out, then I can only assume that my behavior was somehow MUCH worse than those displayed, which I do not agree with. If you can't show me where I have stepped out of line to warrant harsher punishments than everyone else, then I have no idea how else to reform. Because everyone else who have displayed that type of behavior only seem to receive chat restrictions.

You reform by looking at the behaviors that you KNOW to be wrong, that you've been TOLD are wrong, that you've ADMITTED are wrong - and you change them.

There's no need for you to see every single scrap of information that might possibly be relevant when it's really all just more examples of the same behaviors.

Except after 2 weeks of copypasta responses and getting my ticket transferred around, I was finally told that my one game was enough to warrant a two week ban. And the behavior in that one game, like I've said, isn't enough to warrant that punishment, and it wasn't something I've done regularly.

Again, the problem doesn't seem to be with Support. It seems to be with your own unwillingness to accept what you're being told.

You're being told that the behavior in that game is what got you banned. You're being told that you should address that behavior. You're being told that it's a behavior you show in other games.

And your only response has been to naysay all of that. To deflect responsibility. To nit-pick and straw-man. To do nearly anything and everything except recognize that maybe - just maybe - they're right.

There's a quote from one of my favorite Star Wars books, I, Jedi, that I think is pretty appropriate, here: "If one guy calls you a Hutt, ignore him. If a second guy calls you a Hutt, begin to wonder. If a third guy calls you a Hutt, buy a drool bucket and start stockpiling spice."

1YYHpfoW1N1 votes

It's one of two reasons:

Your behavior was more aggressive than theirs. Your behavior was more persistent than theirs. It's really that simple. It's not a lottery. It's a sliding double-scale.

This is the whole point that I am arguing- IT'S NOT EITHER. I truly 100% do not agree my behavior is either more aggressive nor more persistent. Read my log one more time, then read the logs of those I linked. You can multiply what I said by 10 and even then it wouldn't even be comparable to the others. If others are more aggressive and more persistent, and mine in comparison doesn't even hold a candle to those, then why do I have a harsher punishment?

You're being told that the behavior in that game is what got you banned.

yes, except we agreed that this game couldn't have been the only thing that got me banned.

You're being told that you should address that behavior.

I understand that, and I have, because it was an isolated situation which I have not repeated.

You're being told that it's a behavior you show in other games.

You are assuming, throughout all your posts, that this is no doubt the reason why I was issued a 2 week ban. This is the one point I am arguing, that I have NOT displayed this behavior on a regular basis in my games. And if that was truly the case, then I did not deserve a ban. However, you and everyone else is refusing to believe that. I even linked the support ticket that said this (a support ticket that in the end got through the copypasta to get that response). Except you refuse to believe that's what they meant, even though I can't really see how to interpret that any other way. All the other template messages have been along the lines of "you are banned because of your negativity in a bunch of your games". Here, let me actually go pull a quote from the template message I received: "After having reviewed your account, the decision to issue a 2-week suspension was made due to the extreme cases of toxicity we found"

I can assure you this was a one time situation, and when I messaged support back asking for examples of "extreme cases of toxicity", they didn't/couldn't/won't provide any. Because I honestly believe that I have NOT been toxic regularly in games. After messaging them specifically asking for examples, they then actually had a real person come back and hit me with "The behavior that was found in this match was negative enough to warrant a 2-week suspension". So no, I do not believe that I am interpreting this wrongly in any way. We can both agree that the one chat log I have, and most likely my other chat logs were not "extreme cases of toxicity".

Jubbinaut2 votes

{quoted}

This is the whole point that I am arguing- IT'S NOT EITHER. I truly 100% do not agree my behavior is either more aggressive nor more persistent. Read my log one more time, then read the logs of those I linked. You can multiply what I said by 10 and even then it wouldn't even be comparable to the others. If others are more aggressive and more persistent, and mine in comparison doesn't even hold a candle to those, then why do I have a harsher punishment?

Their logs show nothing of persistence. Just as yours shows nothing of persistence.

So how do those logs prove that they're toxic more persistently than you are?

yes, except we agreed that this game couldn't have been the only thing that got me banned.

Indeed we have, but that's not really relevant to your reform. Again, it's not necessary to see every single example of a behavior, if they're all examples of the same kind of behavior.

I understand that, and I have, because it was an isolated situation which I have not repeated.

Then why claim that you're incapable of reform without additional knowledge?

You seem to be contradicting yourself again.

You are assuming, throughout all your posts, that this is no doubt the reason why I was issued a 2 week ban.

No, I am stating unequivocally that the system itself does not punish cases based on a single game unless that game contains hate speech, death threats, or similarly heinous language.

Your log contains none of those things. So there must be other toxic games. I don't say this because I don't believe you, but because it's the only possible objective view.

This is the one point I am arguing, that I have NOT displayed this behavior on a regular basis in my games.

So - again - you're saying that you don't do any of the things I pointed out earlier?

Despite your admission of them?

This would be so much easier if you'd just pick a story and stick with it.

And if that was truly the case, then I did not deserve a ban.

That's not a decision that you - or I - get to make.

Except you refuse to believe that's what they meant, even though I can't really see how to interpret that any other way.

So you can't see how "The behavior that was found in this match was negative enough to warrant a 2-week suspension" could possibly mean "The behavior that was found in this match is a solid example of the behaviors that resulted in your 2-week suspension"?

Then that's a failure of communication. But that does NOT invalidate the ban - nor does it invalidate the value of the logs that were sent to you. Regardless of how much you wish to convince people otherwise.

I can assure you this was a one time situation, and when I messaged support back asking for examples of "extreme cases of toxicity", they didn't/couldn't/won't provide any.

They won't. Because - as I've stated - they don't issue logs to "prove" the validity of a case, no matter how badly you want to believe that they do.

They issue logs to allow you the opportunity to learn what types of behaviors to avoid - and that log is a fantastic example of the types of behaviors that lead to sanctions. So it very much fulfills its purpose.

You sent in a Support ticket. Your case was re-reviewed. Your ban was upheld. Arguing about it isn't going to change that, and ignoring the people who are trying to offer insight isn't going to, either.

1YYHpfoW1N1 votes

Their logs show nothing of persistence. Just as yours shows nothing of persistence.

Their logs do show persistence. In all the cases I linked, those players were shown logs of toxicity over the course of multiple games, if you'd actually click the links and see. A lot of them are also repeat offenders who have received previous chat restrictions before already. And yes, that is the point. My log does not show persistence. I have never been chat banned. I am arguing that my behavior is not persistent. This is really all that I am arguing and all that it boils down to.

So - again - you're saying that you don't do any of the things I pointed out earlier?

Any of those things you stated if not done regularly does not warrant a 2 week ban, and even if done persistently typically results in chat restriction. So no, I don't do those things on a regular basis. No one is changing any stories. I'm not denying that I've ever said any of those.

No, I am stating unequivocally that the system itself does not punish cases based on a single game unless that game contains hate speech, death threats, or similarly heinous language.

Your log contains none of those things. So there must be other toxic games. I don't say this because I don't believe you, but because it's the only possible objective view.

And that's what any other logical person would think. I would too, if I were looking in on this as a 3rd person. And that's also where I think Riot made a mistake. If I actually had a bunch of other toxic games and I knew it, I wouldn't be wasting my time posting here, would I?

My point is that when I asked them what other "extreme" cases they were talking about, they could have either simply said, "these are the cases we are talking about", or, "oh oops, there aren't actually any other extreme cases." If my other cases were so extreme, why was I not banned or warned that first time around? If you show that support sentence to any 10 random people, I will bet the majority of them would have interpreted it the way I have, and not yours. I still highly doubt it was meant to come off as what you try to interpret it as. If I have to wait 2 weeks to finally get a real person to talk to, I would hope that person possesses the skill to communicate the correct point across.

I'm not sure why you are making this more complicated than it has to be. All I'm saying is, I do not agree that I have displayed consistent negative behavior that warrants a 2 week ban. Everyone is guilty of having bad games, and that was one bad game. And if that is actually not the case, then I would very much like Riot to show me my logs of other games where they think I have crossed the line enough to make the punishment a 2 week ban rather than a simple chat restriction.

I am supplementing my request by showing logs of the type of behavior that other players have displayed and the resulting punishments they received. I know that they're not obligated to show me. They have shown other players in the past and as recent as this morning, which is why I made a request to see those logs. That is all.

Jubbinaut3 votes

{quoted}

Their logs do show persistence. In all the cases I linked, those players were shown logs of toxicity over the course of multiple games, if you'd actually click the links and see. A lot of them are also repeat offenders who have received previous chat restrictions before already. And yes, that is the point. My log does not show persistence. I have never been chat banned. I am arguing that my behavior is not persistent. This is really all that I am arguing and all that it boils down to.

Then why admit that you have? Your argument boils down to: "This is the only time I've ever done anything toxic, and I got a ban for it." And then you go and tell me that you have done things that are recognized as toxic before.

Do you not understand how that's contradictory?

Any of those things you stated if not done regularly does not warrant a 2 week ban, and even if done persistently typically results in chat restriction. So no, I don't do those things on a regular basis. No one is changing any stories. I'm not denying that I've ever said any of those.

So you have done the same things that can be seen in your logs before. But you don't understand why doing those things - in multiple games - is considered bannable?

And that's what any other logical person would think. I would too, if I were looking in on this as a 3rd person. And that's also where I think Riot made a mistake. If I actually had a bunch of other toxic games and I knew it, I wouldn't be wasting my time posting here, would I?

Your entire argument here requires that Riot not only mistakenly banned you, but also mistakenly upheld that ban on manual review.

And that's just... extremely unlikely. I've heard of it once. Regarding a player who was expressing apparently-toxic behaviors towards himself.

Your case is more than meaningfully different.

My point is that when I asked them what other "extreme" cases they were talking about, they could have either simply said, "these are the cases we are talking about", or, "oh oops, there aren't actually any other extreme cases." If my other cases were so extreme, why was I not banned or warned that first time around? If you show that support sentence to any 10 random people, I will bet the majority of them would have interpreted it the way I have, and not yours.

That's why it's called a failure of communication. Because someone - on one side or the other of the message - failed at their part of communicating that message.

Whether you misunderstood it or they said it poorly is irrelevant to my statement - and to my point.

I still highly doubt it was meant to come off as what you try to interpret it as. If I have to wait 2 weeks to finally get a real person to talk to, I would hope that person possesses the skill to communicate the correct point across.

One would hope. One would not always be correct in that hope.

I'm not sure why you are making this more complicated than it has to be. All I'm saying is, I do not agree that I have displayed consistent negative behavior that warrants a 2 week ban. Everyone is guilty of having bad games, and that was one bad game. And if that is actually not the case, then I would very much like Riot to show me my logs of other games where they think I have crossed the line enough to make the punishment a 2 week ban rather than a simple chat restriction.

I'm not making anything complicated. I'm stating the facts of the system functions.

I'm pointing out that proof (y'know, that thing you're "requesting" to the point of "demand") is not the purpose of chat logs - nor is it necessary to be provided. Nor is it part of Riot's policy to do so.

I'm trying to do so in a way that will encourage you to recognize the actual purpose of those logs. Apparently, I'm wasting my time.

I am supplementing my request by showing logs of the type of behavior that other players have displayed and the resulting punishments they received. I know that they're not obligated to show me. They have shown other players in the past and as recent as this morning, which is why I made a request to see those logs. That is all.

Yes. For chat restrictions. Which are not - as of yet - connected to the Reform Card system. Meaning that the only way to get any kind of logs for a chat restriction is to post about it.

You received your logs automatically. They wouldn't have received logs at all without posting. There's a pretty significant difference in the two situations.

Why were they given multiple games of logs? Because Lyte felt like giving multiple games of logs. Why were you not? Because the Rioter who handled your ticket did not. It's really not complicated at all.

Jubbinaut3 votes

{quoted}

Because it's simply not. Somehow you seem to think being mildly toxic a few times is a bannable offense, contradicting what you were saying earlier. Find me one single case where someone got a 2 week ban for mild to moderate toxicity. Every single case you will find on 2 week bans are people who have had repeated warnings, repeated offenses, and/or extreme toxicity with racial/homophobic slurs.

That's not actually true. I've seen plenty of cases where players were banned for their first offense, where it wasn't for those extreme behaviors.

Those extreme behaviors are simply banned faster.

And if you think insulting people and dropping constant negativity (which are seen in your logs, and are both behaviors I described) is "mild" toxicity, you're terribly confused.

But don't let that stop you from making a straw man out of me.

Which is why I'm posting, because I'm asking Lyte for chat logs.

So you're going to ignore the fact that he posted logs for those players because they did not receive any other logs?

Okay. Have fun with that, then.

You should probably be posting on Reddit, though. He doesn't post here much. Last time I saw a Lyte post on these boards was a week ago, and this was his entire contribution to the conversation:

{quoted}

Could you post the Reform Card URL you got in your e-mail?

The time before that was more than a month ago.

Jubbinaut3 votes

{quoted}

If saying things like "report Jinx, she afk rage quit" or "stop feeding Riven" every now and then when stuff like that happens is considered toxic and worthy of a 2 week ban, then yes, consider me terribly confused.

Except that's not what I described. Nor is it what your logs show.

Try things like:

"fuck off kha" "yeah, because you did jack shit on the map" "apparently "making plays" means wandering aimlessly on the map" "im not the one walking around doing jack shit on the map pretending to be useful" "nothing, just shit players like you will unfortunately stay shit"

Constant negativity. Insults. Flame wars. No less than three useless report calls.

Nothing like what you claim.

These are the behaviors I described. These are the behaviors you admitted to. These are the behaviors you said "everyone does."

Like I said, I don't consider what I said above every now and then as "extreme toxic cases" and ban worthy behavior, which is why I want to see logs.

You've got logs. I'm looking at them now. You're not going to see other logs. There's no point in giving them to you if these logs exemplify the behavior.

The purpose of logs is to show you what behaviors should change. Nothing more, no matter how badly you wish otherwise.

Since you have logs that exemplify the behavior, you know what behaviors should change. There's no benefit to offering more - no payoff for the extra work.

I've already tried Reddit, they recently implemented a new rule and don't allow posts about bans anymore "because of the rather huge amount of threads we receive about riot support, accounts and stuff like that we decided to ban them since they offer no value for discussions and are purely based on the fact that riots support is... not great to be very very polite."

Huh. Imagine that. Reddit got sick of useless ban threads.

Think there might be some useful information for you in that? Like that maybe it's a pointless endeavor? Or that maybe ban threads weren't being addressed because bans already come with logs?

nerak232 votes

Bump.

Still here I see. I have to say that even though I don't agree with everything being said on this thread, I will summit to you that I Now support your quest in getting a 2nd log. I have seen 'some certain people' get extra logs and I think if you want to prove for right or wrong that this was an isolated incident Then I will help you in the only way I know how and bump with you.

We still have a difference of opinion however, I am open to being proven wrong. Bring the next log on. I'd suggest though I still believe that we have a different opinion on how punishments should be dealt with, you deserve to get 1 more log just for persistence and being non-confrontational.

1YYHpfoW1N2 votes

Thanks, I appreciate the support.

Jubbinaut1 votes

Lack of nesting irritates me, so I'm starting a new line of discussion. Apologies if that's problematic.

{quoted}

Uh no. You are completely missing the part where I'm saying the behavior (Constant negativity. Insults. Flame wars. No less than three useless report calls.) in that one game is an isolated situation, and all my other negative behavior that I claim that "everyone does" is along the lines of "report Jinx, she afk rage quit" or "stop feeding Riven". Like I said, I had one bad game.

Missing? No. Not at all. I talked about it a few times. I tried to make it a conversation, actually, asking questions and seeking clarification. You decided to gloss over that and make assumptions without ever directly answering those questions.

You said that the behavior I described was something everyone does (and thereby implied that you had done it). You also said that you'd never done anything like it before.

Yet you told me there was no contradiction in those two statements.

I have one log from Riot demonstrating that behavior, and I'm pretty sure that would be the only one in many many games that they have.

I can tell. You're sure enough that you've completely naysayed literally every logical response to you. Not by addressing the counter-argument, nor by addressing its logic, but simply by restating the same point.

But the thing is, that's not how the system works. It does not function that way. It builds cases based on multiple validly reported games. The case is then judged as a whole.

So, logically and objectively, if the "one-off" behaviors that can be punished based on a single game are not present in your log, there must be more/other meaningfully toxic games.

As I pointed out elsewhere, there may be some merit to the whole "'sucking dick' as homophobic slur" argument, which would represent one of those "one-off" behaviors. I tend not to view it that way, but it is a possibility. That would explain it being a single game.

However, if that's not the case, then there are other games.

I also like how the explanation was two parted, and you decide to ignore the second part:

I didn't ignore it. It's just not really meaningful to the point of their statement. Which is what I was addressing. The meaning behind their statement would not have changed at all if that phrase was removed. It neither adds nor clarifies anything regarding reddit's decision - only expresses an opinion about a third party.

The point of their overall statement is that ban threads are useless. Whether or not they believe Riot Support to be effective or not is beside that point.

So yeah, I'm not the only one who has already gone through the support ticket channel and not received adequate feedback. Based on the fact that ban threads have been addressed often in the past (just google reddit lyte smite), I would consider this a successful endeavor if I can get logs.

You mean those ban threads from back before the Reform Card system was implemented?

I don't understand how you've got this disconnect still. Lyte was giving logs to players who were not receiving logs. You did receive logs. There is a fundamental difference in the two situations.

When Lyte has addressed players who did receive logs, he has talked about those logs and about the system itself. He has not given additional logs to those players, except perhaps (I haven't seen it, but I've wished for it a couple times) in the rare case where a player's triggering game - and thus their logs - do not actually show much or any toxicity at all. Again, a very different situation than yours.

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