Riot, can you do a favor for an autistic person?

Dramos·Aug 31, 2015·336 votes·27,257 views

http://i.imgur.com/c67gAla.png

If I hate one thing, it is disorder. :/

I am an autist. Someone who has improved mathematical and logical thinking, who loves organisation and precision. A bit like a human version of ...without that disintegration stuff.

It is nothing what influences my gameplay or disturbs my orienteering. It is just that the recipe items of is not in an increasing order.

The actual recipe is: < >>

I wish it like this: < <

Can you sort the order of the recipe items again? Do it for the clarity™! :)

206 Comments

MalchaAug 31, 2015213 votes

This didn't bother me before but by God does it bother me now.

Ariel the CruelAug 31, 20155 votes

I didn't hate Opener before. But by Riot, now I have to for pointing this out.

Please Rito, don't make me hate this opener any longer! XD

KnalxzSep 1, 201513 votes

Cannot unsee.

DylightfullAug 31, 201597 votes

For the sake of everyone that is now just realizing this and is currently being driven mad by it, here are some GIFs that should soothe you: http://ak-hdl.buzzfed.com/static/2015-06/1/11/enhanced/webdr04/anigif_enhanced-buzz-19611-1433172358-6.gif http://ak-hdl.buzzfed.com/static/2015-06/1/11/enhanced/webdr07/anigif_enhanced-buzz-25603-1433172983-19.gif http://viralcircus.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/80aWaYk.gif http://viralcircus.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/O5q8I5p.gif http://ak-hdl.buzzfed.com/static/2015-04/7/19/enhanced/webdr08/anigif_enhanced-20280-1428449789-20.gif

CatastropAug 31, 201528 votes

http://ak-hdl.buzzfed.com/static/2015-04/7/19/enhanced/webdr08/anigif_enhanced-20280-1428449789-20.gif

This one is like sex....with weird gymnastics involved.

AMYS GRAVEAug 31, 20153 votes

So... how is it different?

/kappa if it wasn't clear....

SmokinSickStyleSep 1, 20157 votes

DAMMIT.

That gif ruined it for me, WHY AREN'T THOSE LEFT OVER DOTS CLEARED BY THE SPHERE?

THEY JUST DISAPPEAR LIKE THAT, SOMEBODY FIX IT.

DylightfullSep 1, 20154 votes

The actual GIF doesn't do that. It only happens on the boards for some reason. You can see it here.

Reaper SorakaAug 31, 20154 votes

The last one.... The can tilts sideways when it reaches the bottom.

Please delete immediately. ;)

DramosAug 31, 20155 votes

~~deep breath~~

Pure satisfaction! Take this upvote and spend it for some ice cream.

DylightfullAug 31, 201524 votes

http://ak-hdl.buzzfed.com/static/2015-06/1/17/enhanced/webdr13/anigif_enhanced-buzz-32189-1433193323-5.gif

LICENSED HOOKERAug 31, 20152 votes

is there one about cats :)?

gubigubiSep 1, 201529 votes

Why would you want a gif of this machine pumping ice cream into cats.

DramosAug 31, 201536 votes

In the moment, Rabadon's feels like...

http://i.imgur.com/HbY0vs6.png

FluppetsSep 1, 201510 votes

you had ONE job!

RiotRiot BaconhawkSep 1, 201539 votes

I'm chatting with some folks now and pointing them to this thread.

I also have always been slightly irked at this >___< !!!

DramosSep 1, 20154 votes

I'm glad to hear that . Thank you, Mr. Baconhawk. ·)

linkmastr001Sep 1, 201511 votes

Ms.*

RiotRiot ReinboomSep 1, 201520 votes

As someone who also shares a type of obsessiveness and who relevantly mucks around with items, I'm interested in an open dialog on this actually. To cope, I've structured a kind of internal rules for item trees. That appears something like:

"The needs of the design exceeds the needs of the tree" - If the components of an item tree are important for the gameplay of the item, then the components won't adapt for a better feeling tree.
"Components are weighted towards the center" - You can see this more clearly with the new Locket of the Iron Solari build path. As you navigate for any length down the tree, the tree will try to guide you towards the center. Along this line, the Infinity Edge and Rylai's Crystal Scepter trees bother me considerably whereas the Deathcap tree does not.
"Symmetry" - If duplication in effect is possible on the sides of the tree, allow the effect to be duplicated. Warmog's current build path is the most satisfying item to me under this idea.

I've not been particularly pained by incremental ordering. Wanting things to weight towards a central point is a much strong obsession for myself.

So the question I have for you (anyone present in the thread, not just the original poster): What rules drive your visual relationship space that makes you feel good? (For example, "I like to see things increment from left to right") How does each of your rules weight in relation to each other? For those who wish to seek out incremental value, how does Banshee's Veil's build path feel?

ArkenStormSep 1, 20152 votes

I am more for the symmetry aspect, but instead of making it "one-size-fits-all," why not make it customizable so that everyone can have it how they like it best, or if they don't care they'll just stick with the default option?

RiotRiot ReinboomSep 1, 20158 votes

Opportunity cost. The resources required to build such a feature would compete with other things that could be in development. So the question then becomes, which is more valuable to have? In this case, I don't think reordering build trees wins out as a feature since its dev cost would be nontrivial.

diamondlightSep 1, 20152 votes

Item ordering based on cost would be trivial however, tree sorting algorithms based on integer values is ez.

I think the center weight ordering would make greater sense if there wasn't conflicting information being displayed. The numerical values that you see are out of order, the "importance-value" of the items is what is centered. Meaning if you glance and see three numbers, it feels unordered, even though it's putting the highest value-importance-stats item in center. But why is the second most valuable on the left, and least valuable on the right? No order there, no second level sort....

RiotRiot ReinboomSep 1, 20156 votes

Tree sorting is easy.

ArkenStorm asked for "why not make it customizable so that everyone can have it how they like it best".

AlexXenoSep 2, 20151 votes

I personally agree with your rule 3 and 2. but I believe that item 3089 is an exception to this rule. Deathcap doesn't have the build complexity of other items like for example item 3083 . At the very least, I think item 1052 should be on the left side. even if item 1058 stays in the middle.

RiotRiot ReinboomSep 2, 20156 votes

There's one of two rules this describes then. Knowing that the numbers describe priority order. Either... Shift rules 2 and 3 by 1 and add: "2. If the build tree is a flat 1 layer down, order components by cost from least to greatest." Which would say that in cases specifically like Deathcap, this rule outweighs the centering effect. This would make Deathcap's ordering: item 1052 + item 1026 + item 1058

Or... After rules 2 and 3 add: "4. Order components by cost from least to greatest." Which would prioritize it below the centering rule. This would make Deathcap's order like: item 1052 + item 1058 + item 1026

Alternatively, does the increasing nature matter or only the pattern? For example, what if the rule was "If the build tree is flat 1 layer down, order components by cost from greatest to least." this would make Deathcap: item 1058 + item 1026 + item 1052

How acceptable is this?

TwigglesAug 31, 201519 votes

Let me get this straight...

Someone that actually has autism and SAYS that they have autism posted on THESE boards and DIDN'T get jumped by the community like a bleeding seal in a tank full of sharks.

Faith in humanity partially restored. This is an unexpectedly mature, understanding, and even downright agreeable thread.

On topic, I too would like an option to customize what the item build paths look like.

League of PotatoSep 1, 20155 votes

People (mean people/"assholeish" people) will type things demeaning autism/other mental disorders into chat without thinking why it is bad (even though they know deep down somewhere that it is bad to "joke" about that), but not many people (or at least I would hope) would straight up say it to their face/knowing they could see it. Mostly because they don't want to be seen as a "bad person", even though they don't realize they look that way whenever they talk like that in general.

redniwediSAug 31, 201512 votes

I could definitely get behind this. Having things out of order doesn't bother me, but having an order to it could make things a bit easier when time is of the essence.

FelvyneAug 31, 20159 votes

i think this has nothing to do with autism and is more an Obsessive and Compulsive Dissorder...

XenohazAug 31, 201537 votes

Some people on the autism spectrum suffer from conditions very similar to some forms of OCD.

Fallen SorakaAug 31, 201510 votes

I have Asberger's (a much less severe form of autism that doesn't really affect higher brain functions)

I have a notable increase in capacity to memorize, recall, reason, logicize, and form a relationship between things.

In addition, I also have social withdrawness, a sense of superiority above others, and I guess I could say a slight form of OCD (I really just want things done in an efficient manner).

In MY case and opinion, the pros outweigh the cons, so worth. Sadly, others aren't so lucky :(

MongooseAug 31, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fallen Soraka,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=0pbJV9h4,comment-id=000500000001,timestamp=2015-08-31T22:12:29.949+0000)

a sense of superiority above others

https://i.gyazo.com/4f330967522cb84abb5273b1ff321dc0.png

???

Fallen SorakaAug 31, 201533 votes

I never said I was better than others (especially at League). But by nature, I am conceited (moreso than normal people).

And what are you talking about? Silver V and Challenger are like the same thing :P

Ten60wAddisonSep 1, 20154 votes

I have had the pleasure of knowing several people with moderate cases of Asperger's. I 100% understand what you are saying and when this guy meets and becomes friends with someone who has it, he will understand as well.

I applaud you for the way you respond as well as your clear and direct explanation.

chaetopterusAug 31, 20158 votes

This actually used to bother me, but I got to terms with it since many item builds are arranged towards the centre. It's a less mathematical order, but thanks to it, some item recipes are symmetrical or at least really satisfying to look at when you visualize them as graphs (y value determined by gold cost of course). It's pretty obvious I'm autistic too, isn't it?

Davy CrockettAug 31, 20154 votes

I actually like the cheaper/less important purchases/items on the right and the more important ones on the left. I just zone out on the right side and i doesn't faze me.

yay nibbersAug 31, 20157 votes

I always thought it was a flattened triangle with the biggest item at the top.

__ item 1058 item 1026 item 1052

AMYS GRAVEAug 31, 20157 votes

A bit like a human version of

Dude that's awesome! can you show me your ...

...without that disintegration stuff.

Awwwww...

But for reals this is actually a really good thread with lots of good discussion of mental disorders. Props!

gaby1bestSep 1, 20156 votes

Dude I was really expecting some tentacles... For research purpose of course.

IGotScuttleCrabsAug 31, 20156 votes

I agreed with your post till you spelt "incrasing" wrong. Thats not very precise ;D

But in all seriousness, I've noticed it as well.

KING OF MASKSAug 31, 20156 votes

I actually like how it is now; you have the most expensive, most impactful item right in the center, and then it goes in decreasing order from left to right.

Kinda like one of these: http://previews.123rf.com/images/alexmillos/alexmillos1211/alexmillos121100062/16116827-gold-trophy-cup-1st-place-illustration-design-Stock-Vector.jpg

Not sure if that logic applies to similar items, though (unfortunately much too lazy to look it up right now).

ValentenSep 1, 20152 votes

YOU SIR DO YOU HAVE A MOMENT TO TALK ABOUT OUR LORD AND SAVIOUR DAWNGATE

KING OF MASKSSep 1, 20153 votes

I have completely and unconditionally accepted the Dawngate into my life.

BemaponSep 2, 20152 votes

RIP Dawngate.

PalPlaysSep 1, 20156 votes

Don't you feel bad sir, I'm not Autistic and I agree wholeheartedly with you!

(Don't even get me started on the Itemization disarray)(No, I'm not making fun of you; this is legitimately something that peeves me)

What the order is:

DEFENSE: Armor Health Health Regen Magic Resist

ATTACK: Attack Speed Critical Strike Damage Life Steal

MAGIC: Cooldown Reduction Mana Mana Regen Ability Power

What the order SHOULD be:

DEFENSE: Armor Magic Resist Health Health Regen

ATTACK: Damage Attack Speed Critical Strike Life Steal

MAGIC: Ability Power Cooldown Reduction Mana Mana Regen

RiotRiot ReinboomSep 1, 20158 votes

The puzzle ordering that went into the categories:

Attack and Magic are relational to each other.

Attack Speed is similar in feel to Cooldown Reduction. (Haste)
There is no clear comparison for Critical Strike so the last amplification on magic, mana manipulation, is drawn as a comparison.
Attack Damage is similar in feel to Ability Power. (Damage core)
Life Steal is similar in feel to Spell Vamp. (Recovery)

Magic is relational to defense.

The order of Mana and Mana Regen are set to match Health and Health Regen.

Defense is relational to both Attack and Magic.

Armor is closer to Attack.
Magic Resist is close to Magic.

Defense's core is relational to effect and weighting.

Health and Health Regen are paired together as both "Total time to live".
The more globally desired of Health and Health Regen is weighted towards the top.

Attack and Ability Power being core identities of their respective categories and thus should be weighted towards the top is likely a strong rule to add.

What are the rules that you are generating by?

The Arctic OtterSep 1, 20151 votes

I agree that the current tree is not intuitive in it's design. I haven't taken the time to re-write what my suggestion should be. However, i think something similar to the "C" stats menu in game would make the most sense.

Also, have you ever considered changing "Ability Power" to "Magic Damage". I imagine that originally, a champion's abilities were mostly scaled by this stat. However, now abilities scale by just about anything. I realize this would be a massive term change for the game (similar to ADC --> Marksman). It always seemed more logical to have Physical Damage and Magic Damage than the current wording to me.

RiotRiot ReinboomSep 1, 20154 votes

Ability Power and Magic Damage don't couple. Increasing AP doesn't have a 1:1 increase for Magic Damage dealt. We also scale things off of AP that are not Magic Damage.

Of course... we scale things off of Attack Damage that aren't Physical Damage (Riven shield). ¯\(ツ)/¯

Kats PajamasSep 1, 20152 votes

Most people with Autism can't use computers. Those who can, normally end up using it as a medium for special communication, because they can't use normal words and conversation. It seems almost purposeful the raw dissociation of aspergers and autism, as complete attacks on those who really have the disease. It's comparable to saying, you're blind and paralyzed, but you decided to come talk to us on the forum today. You're not autistic. Even if you have a form of autism, you're still not autistic, because you're communicating very well.

You're a disgrace to humanity, if the premise of your joke is the 'accidental' confusion of Autism, and Aspergers, and OCD. You could also just be a dumb Aspy, wouldn't be the first, but the OP seems intentionally making fun of handicap people to me.

IRLRenektonSep 1, 201510 votes

Erhm, I have aspergers and thus while I was educated I became acquainted with many people with mild to intermediate forms of full autism. They used computers just like everyone else in school. They also frequently used the medium for entertainment for what I gathered from their conversations.

Only extremely affected individuals had such a disability that you describe