Should the next champion be an ADC or a jungler?

Laughing Fish·Sep 16, 2015·156 votes·15,474 views

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87 Comments

RiotZwillSep 16, 201591 votes

http://i.imgur.com/kamTD5S.jpg

Laughing FishSep 16, 201561 votes

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/6-09-2015/Hu0M4g.gif

Melodyy121Sep 17, 201512 votes

[{quoted}](name=Laughing Fish,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=XVYvZxxV,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-09-16T18:09:50.660+0000)

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/6-09-2015/Hu0M4g.gif

Blue Moon WolfSep 16, 201526 votes

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/244/457/793.gif

Samflash3Sep 16, 20155 votes

I wish there was a meme when they raise her as with this gif and then throw her overboard the river.

Not in this post though, but still.

EnflameSep 16, 201526 votes

http://giphy.com/gifs/P9fdS6lJIuG3K/html5

Samflash3Sep 17, 201514 votes

LOL. Nerf Wukong

Blue Moon WolfSep 17, 20156 votes

and buff poor rengar :(

pripustasSep 16, 201512 votes

How about an AD assassin? It's been years! YEARS I TELL YA! Riot could also ACTUALLY ADD ITEMS FOR THEM. jungler items? - jungler items ap assassin items? ap assassin items ap items? ap items apc items? apc items bruiser items? bruiser items juggernaut items? juggernaut items adc items? adc item ad assassin items? fuck you, use what we gave others.

Subject 5Sep 16, 20152 votes

{quoted}

How about an AD assassin? It's been years! YEARS I TELL YA! Riot could also ACTUALLY ADD ITEMS FOR THEM. jungler items? - jungler items ap assassin items? ap assassin items ap items? ap items apc items? apc items bruiser items? bruiser items juggernaut items? juggernaut items adc items? adc item ad assassin items? fuck you, use what we gave others.

IT'LL BE YEARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

S'before you can fight me danyim

JC DarkOmenSep 16, 20152 votes

So I was tellin him "Look man, it'll be years- like literally, years- before you can fight me."

RalanrSep 16, 20157 votes

You mean like Zed?

pripustasSep 16, 20152 votes

Who was released in 2012. Last AD assassin was released 3 YEARS ago. You know what 3 years is? It's 1095 DAYS. That's how long ago that was. 1095 DAYS. And we still don't even have ITEMS for them. Imagine if you wanted to buy a shirt, and you had to wait more than 3 years to do so. Feels bad man..

AuryielSep 16, 201527 votes

Playing against AD assassins feel bad, so......

Ya know, all that free sustain from lifesteal is not so balanced on an assassin and that can't easily be fixed.

The only solution would be to create ad assassin specific items that are SO GOOD you don't want to buy lifesteal, but then maybe someone else will buy them or maybe ad assassins would be OP because their items are so monstrously powerful. So now you have to create undeniable synergy between ad assassins and those items that doesn't carry over to any classes AND you have to make ad assassins pure garbage without those items.

And then you have the problem of having so much damage coming out of your AAs. When you're ahead, you can miss half your combo and still destroy your enemies.

I dunno. AD assassins are super hard to be done right. AP assassins are much, much easier to balance.

I guess what I'm trying to say is....

IT'L BE YEAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRS

before another AD assassin is released

I GANK LANESSep 16, 20152 votes

free sustain? from lifesteal? you mean the lifesteal provided by the items you buy? buy as in aren't free? lol

AuryielSep 16, 20152 votes

Oh, no, I had to invest 800 gold into an item that's part of another I'll buy eventually. Whatever shall I do?

And by free I mean that once you have lifesteal, you don't need to expand a resource to use it.

Usually AD assassins lane against mages who have to expand mana to deal significant poke past the early levels and lifesteal makes those mages have to choose between clearing waves and harassing.

I wouldn't be against lifesteal on assassins if Riot was not so dead set on giving them waveclear.

DivewingSep 17, 20151 votes

Talon's waveclear im fine with, he needs tiamat for good waveclear and if he has that earlier than normal, waveclear is the least of your worries, by the time he would normally have it, even if rushed, its not such a big deal anymore

Stiv1234Sep 17, 20151 votes

Well, but Talon is the only healthy AD assassin (because he has mana and a crappy early).

Photos of GhostsSep 17, 20151 votes

Or just give them a passive that halves the lifesteal they buy and instead gives them some weird poop

Small TiddiesSep 18, 20152 votes

Rip Dunkey T^T Chogath item 3070

Terra BoomaSep 16, 20152 votes

Isn't Yas an AD assassin? There are three.

Zed, Talon, and Yas.

They have that whole thing where only one can ever be viable at a time

pripustasSep 16, 20153 votes

Yasuo is more of an ADC. Kind of like Vayne. Pure AD assassins are: Zed, Talon, Rengar, Kha'zix.

NeameanSep 16, 20156 votes

How can you forget about the original ADcaster Assassin Pantheon

pripustasSep 17, 20151 votes

Doesn't have the damage to get in and 1shot a carry.

LordForrestSep 17, 20158 votes

Uh, then you are doing it wrong.

TiropatSep 18, 20151 votes

Street Jimmy disagrees

CrownsySep 16, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Yasuo is more of an ADC. Kind of like Vayne. Pure AD assassins are: Zed, Talon, Rengar, Kha'zix.

wat? yas isn't an AD assassin?

How is yas "more of an ADC" other than you forgot to mention him in your timeline?

Yas with a Shiv and IE/Tri is a AD assassin monster.

That said, I'd like to see a true Mid Mage. haven't had one of those in ages. Ekko is more of a Mana Assassin than a Mage. I want some true spell casting up in here.

JingerbeardmanSep 17, 20156 votes

he was designed around being a fighter which is why he has to build up 3 charges before he can complete his ultimate. Assassins on the other hand have a very specific burst pattern meant to be able to eliminate targets quickly.

While yasuo does feel very powerful and almost assassin like if he can ult off of a friendly knockup, his stand alone kit is designed more like a carry fighter.

pripustasSep 17, 20153 votes

This. Yasuo needs positioning like an assassin, true. But he doesn't have the burst to be one, unless he's very very fed. Assassins can go in, and delete a squishy in 1second. Yasuo can't. But on the other hand he has tools to deal big and consistent damage to multiple enemies, that's a carry's job.

LowvyrSep 16, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Terra Booma,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=XVYvZxxV,comment-id=0000000100010001,timestamp=2015-09-16T18:23:03.790+0000)

Isn't Yas an AD assassin? There are three.

Zed, Talon, and Yas.

They have that whole thing where only one can ever be viable at a time

Rengar Kha'Zix Shaco Master Yi Nocturne Vayne (To an extent)

All AD Assassins.

JingerbeardmanSep 17, 20154 votes

why are people forgetting lee sin? while he might need to build tankier into the late game, his early game is just like an assassins.

IcyPepperSep 18, 20152 votes

He's a primary fighter, secondary assassin. Gets played as a tanky fighter late-game.

Basically the poster boy of bruisers.

BooleansSep 17, 20152 votes

Last I checked Yasuo was an AD assassin. Granted Yasuo, Zed and Talon are the AD mid trio, Riot could do with adding a few more of those.

GorgannanSep 17, 20151 votes

Honestly, looking at Ekko, who was supposed to be an assassin, I say we're probably good for assassins forever. Give a few mages, ADC's, and maybe a few dedicated tanks, and then let the champion pool finally rest.

pripustasSep 17, 20151 votes

I'm not asking for an assassin with an overloaded kit. I don't think assassins should have any hard cc, minimal defensive capabilities, and no "retry" button. They should, however be able to destroy a squishy and maybe escape.

GorgannanSep 17, 20151 votes

Well what would you give them? A non-overloaded AD assassin really wouldn't have anything that we don't already have on an assassin.

pripustasSep 17, 20151 votes

Then why even create new champions?

GorgannanSep 17, 20151 votes

Because there are interesting niches that are left untouched?

Unfortunately, giving the mechanics they've been giving would be OP on an AD assassin. AD assassins are, champion design wise, relatively simple.

pripustasSep 17, 20151 votes

There is absolutely nothing wrong with simple.

GorgannanSep 17, 20151 votes

I think you're missing the point.

Make a simple, AD assassin kit that is unique enough to warrant a new champion and still healthy.

There's nothing wrong with AD assassins, but the ones we've got are all we need.

AP assassins have a lot more room for healthy gameplay, minus it's too easy to build tanky and damage.

pripustasSep 18, 20151 votes

There's nothing wrong with AD assassins, but the ones we've got are all we need.

And I think that we have enough ADC's. We don't need more of them. See what's wrong with that?

TurquoiseYoshiSep 16, 20151 votes

Yasuo.

Oh, and by the way, what pure AP assassin items exist? I've seen mostly just APC mage items that end up being used for both.

Jungle items need to exist to support junglers that don't have great stuff for themselves. Many champions cannot be junglers without the jungle enchants, but when they exist, it gives these people decent starting items.

Bruisers and juggernauts have very alike items because they kinda fulfill the same role, but at different points of the game.

ADC items and AD assassin items can be the same. Especially if there are only 3 like you say.

Making a full item set for AD assassins would be like like making a full item set for AP marksmen. Hell, there are more AP marksmen than AD assassins.

pripustasSep 16, 20152 votes

4 AD assassins actually. AP assassins have items like item 3285 item 3157 item 3116 etc they are way better

TurquoiseYoshiSep 16, 20151 votes

Luden's Echo, used on many mages who lack major AoE damage, or just want more mobility.

Zhonia's, used on many APCs as a way to survive being caught out, as that can result in a lost game late.

Rylia's, used on basically every AP champ with AoE, to get the slow. Even used on many top laners (Kennen) and junglers (Elise, Eve).

HazareSep 17, 20152 votes

Echo adds another burst, Zhonya gives major defensive abilities while completementing the damage required to assassinate, he forgot to mention Lich Bane, who gives ANOTHER burst, one very superior to any AD version of it.

Auz the RipperSep 17, 20151 votes

{quoted} he forgot to mention Lich Bane, who gives ANOTHER burst, one very superior to any AD version of it.

Trinity, through expensive as hell, is pretty damn strong

Small TiddiesSep 18, 20152 votes

Zed jungle seems to work just fine. 35+ 35% Armor pen is fun :)

IcyPepperSep 18, 20151 votes

ad assassin items? fuck you, use what we gave others.

I was going to argue, but then I realized you're kind of right.

It would be awesome if AD assassins got their own items, instead of being balanced around having to buy other items (BORK Zed, ghostblade whatever, hydra Rengar exploit, Riven, etc).