When you see a post saying your main needs to be nerfed

Laughing Fish·May 4, 2016·152 votes·6,265 views

https://media.giphy.com/media/mcJgoX5EMTf7a/giphy.gif

146 Comments

hoes and bowsMay 4, 201630 votes

Holy shit I used to be a Zed main

manbearswineMay 4, 201611 votes

[{quoted}](name=hoes and bows,realm=EUNE,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=XMBoEiOM,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-05-04T20:01:39.843+0000)

Holy shit I used to be a Zed main

I mean to be honest, if my main was sitting on 67% banrate(probably will rise with the current patch, or who knows, maybe something more op will come up), I myself would want him nerfed.

HazyCloud7May 5, 20165 votes

It would take some huge nerfs to really keep him from being banned so much. People hate playing against him even more than Fizz & LeBlanc. I enjoy playing Zed but really his safety, absence of mana, and waveclear are too much. There is no unwinnable matchup and it's hard to abuse him because you can just sit back and use Q to farm (6 sec CD at all levels!) casters.

manbearswineMay 5, 20162 votes

{quoted}

It would take some huge nerfs to really keep him from being banned so much.

I don't think so, he has points in history where he was fairly balanced and had a reasonable banrate.

People hate playing against him even more than Fizz & LeBlanc.

I mean at his current state of balance, yes. But when they are even in power I'd much rather deal with zed than fizz or le blanc(this isn't so much about how much I "enjoy" playing against zed as much as I fucking detest fizz and le broken).

I enjoy playing Zed but really his safety, absence of mana, and waveclear are too much. There is no unwinnable matchup and it's hard to abuse him because you can just sit back and use Q to farm (6 sec CD at all levels!) casters.

Well yes, as his banrate shows his tuning is off( his kit is rather obnoxious, but most assassins are even more so), I mean it's quite likely some mages will be even more op than him(Personally with the way riot tends to balance things, I'm going to blindly guess malzhar won't pay a proper price for his passive), but buffing him by removing qss affecting his ult without any nerfs for a champion who is near a 70% banrate seems just silly.

KasyrganMay 5, 20161 votes

They nerfed QSS so that Zed will not be completely shutdown when they eventually do change his numbers and/or kit. An assassin rework is speculated and Zed is probably going to be receiving changes.

manbearswineMay 5, 20163 votes

{quoted}

They nerfed QSS so that Zed will not be completely shutdown when they eventually do change his numbers and/or kit.

So why not change qss when those changes happen? Why change it before? Why make a 70% banrate champion even worse to play against? I mean I can see sense behind making qss not affect zed's ult in specific(I can't say the same about other debuffs), but it has to be combined with nerfs to him, if you believe qss is forcing too much of his power to be in the early game then act upon that belief, don't just remove qss's interaction with his ult and see if that belief actually makes sense or not.

An assassin rework is speculated and Zed is probably going to be receiving changes.

That's like half a year from now.

AttackOfTheBeardMay 5, 20165 votes

you wanna know a terrible matchup for Zed? Lissandra. incredible waveclear to push Zed under turret and to harass him. has an escape, 2 forms of hard CC, can ult herself to avoid all ult damage from Zed or ult him immediately after he appears from casting his ult and abuse him. easy as hell to gank for due to her CC. much much better teamfighting capability. I would also argue Fizz beats Zed but that would take someone who knows both Fizz and Zed very well. Ahri can also outplay/beat Zed. Zed is a very very strong champion I'm not arguing that he isn't. but he is very beatable with good enough mechanics and understanding of Zed.

OyddAWqJ5rMay 5, 20162 votes

But the thing is... even if you counter Zed's pushing and harassing he doesn't actually have to fight you. He can easily cs 100% of the minions from underneath his turret if you do. That's why we hate Zed. If you're countered by him it's oppressive. If you counter him it's just a farm lane for him. There is no losing lane unless Zed himself decides to lose it by going in and dying.

People say he needs the kills in lane to stay relevant. No, he doesn't. If he gets snowballed it means he can R->Q->R and get a kill. if he isn't snowballed then that means he has to play conservatively like he normally should and wait until an enemy is low. He can even still 100-0 it just requires all his skills to land instead of 1 and maybe an auto.

But yeah once again, he's hated for his insane amount of safety. The reward heavily outweighs the nonexistent risk.

They recently did a numbers nerf on him--which is okay, I'm glad he's at least weaker now--but it doesn't solve the inherent problem of his overwhelmingly safe gameplay.

hoes and bowsMay 5, 20161 votes

seems like I will respond to a post saying my ex main should get nerfed once again... so, first, I think Zed's high ban rate comes from the fact he counters so many champions, and his high pick rate, since his win rate isn't big at all... also I do agree that Zed can farm under turret pretty good, but it ussualy the farm comes without full hp, making it harder to kill them, and the opposing laner might freeze the lane too, making the Zed lose a pretty high amount of cs. also his opposing later will obviously gain more from a farming lane.

OyddAWqJ5rMay 5, 20161 votes

Did I say nerf? No, gameplay updated. Safety removed.

And heaven forbid the lane gets frozen. How ever will you CS with nothing but a 900 range Q on a 6 second cooldown and a spell that allows you to cast your E 700 units away? Sounds like a really bad time where you're being starved of all gold income and your opportunity to play League of Legends. Especially if the enemy can only do so from their side of the minions so else risk getting mauled by your entire wave. What a predicament we find ourselves in.

Now am I saying make Zed's blades into styrofoam? No. I'm saying make him less safe via removing his inability to lose lane unless he himself loses it for himself. He should be able to lose lane by being beaten out by the opponent. And yet all that ever really happens is he gets only 5 cs per wave instead of 6. Woop-dee-doo. What a hard counter.

hoes and bowsMay 5, 20161 votes

First there are some pretty lots of champions that will like freezing the lane in case of snowballing (Fizz, Yasuo, Lissandra etc) Because they have got enough gap closers too get to Zed and shot him down upon all ining him in case he uses his W for poke/cs, also note that these champions are the once who can actually snowball on him. also although I do agree that a Zed will still be somewhat useful after a farming lane, it's pretty obvious that his opposing laner will be more useful. I do think that Zed is a very toxic champion by being a direct counter of so many champions, but I doubt him being OP, and the only option to reduce his ban rate seems like a rework/major update, and I disagree with reworking one or maybe even the most played champ, and that also seems like the problem Riot is facing with him.

OyddAWqJ5rMay 5, 20161 votes

Because they have got enough gap closers too get to Zed and shot him down upon all ining him in case he uses his W for poke/cs, also note that these champions are the once who can actually snowball on him.

So like I said, the Zed has to screw up and play himself. It was never in the Yas/Fizz/Liss's hands to win but rather it was Zed's to lose.

hoes and bowsMay 5, 20161 votes

well yes, but my point is that he wouldn't be able to deal damge to them, withought using his W, making him suffer hard from the freezed lane.

OyddAWqJ5rMay 6, 20161 votes

That makes no sense. How would he suffer from not being able to damage his opposing laner during a lane freeze? He can easily either 1. Push harder into their turret via shurikens or 2. Just farm via shurikens.

I don't get why the whole "but zed cant hurt them without w" point keeps being brought up by zed mains. Why do you HAVE to hurt them. Talon can't even touch his opposing laners half the time and yet he does just fine patiently waiting til 6, grabbing the few cs he can til then. But Zed? Oh no he has to be able to safely farm all 6 minions at all times whilst having a safe escape option and safe harass. Oh but i forgot he has it hard cuz he has the option of using his dash as a means to harass/cs and can be punished for it. Meanwhile the opponent's counterplay is: wait for him to retardedly blow his W for no good reason.

hoes and bowsMay 6, 20161 votes

Well first, the first option you mentioned in Zed options means he will have to aa and E the farm in order to push it, making him take damage for the Lissandra or using his high CD escape against the Yasuo, since once in every 6 seconds Q those not wave clear better than a Lissandra or almost any other champion, so it really is not a viable option. The second option will make him lose a certain amount of cs, but I do agree that he will take most of them, but usually it will result him being 30-40 cs behind his opposing laner, which is worse then a kill advantage to his opponent, which also probably scales much better late game. So it ends up with the counterplay being either waiting for him to make a stupid mistake to get a kill (and it those happens pretty frequently) or just making it a farm lane and scale better late. I do agree that Zed is op, but it's only because of him countering so many champions, and I don't think that a nerf will help in this case, right now it seems like he is being banned in almost every game and unfortunately there is no real salutation for that.

OyddAWqJ5rMay 6, 20161 votes

So it ends up with the counterplay being either waiting for him to make a stupid mistake to get a kill (and it those happens pretty frequently) or just making it a farm lane and scale better late.

That was a rather long way of saying "You're right".

hoes and bowsMay 7, 20161 votes

My point wasn't that you were right, it was that I agree with the counterplay you mentioned, but also think that it's pretty useful and does give you a big advantage on him.

Laughing FishMay 6, 20164 votes

That is how I felt when they nerfed Garen after the juggernaut patch. I could actually use him again. http://i.imgur.com/W0wVY4c.gif?Noredirect

bloodmothMay 5, 20161 votes

Shouldnt you want zed to be nerfed the most? I mean, hes pretty OP, hes impossible to escape from or to catch, his damage is just far too high and bursty, so even if you dodge his spells, and juke him, hes still on top of you and ready to burst you down regardless. The single best counter to champions like him is to just outright ban them if they get popular, and they get popular when they are OP

So if zed is OP, everyone else will play him If everyone else plays him and he is OP, then he will be banned If he is banned or picked, then you cant play him (assuming you are playing ranked and not normal queue) Which means that you, the skilled zed player that mastered his kit and stuck through with him when he wasnt op (lol) now cant win with him because the enemy either banned him or picked him ...

Or maybe you are just an FotM abuser or filthy smurf!!!

hoes and bowsMay 5, 20161 votes

I think Zed's high ban rate comes from him being a direct counter of so many champions, and not him being op (last time I checked he was on a 49.9 winrate), so I think that just nerfing him will barely do any good to his ban rate. Btw and completely out of context, back then when I used to main Zed my main supp was Soraka and second most played chemp Ekko, pretty dark days...

bloodmothMay 6, 20162 votes

If he counters so many champions, then one would assume that his strengths are too many and his weaknesses too few.

If he is versatile and powerful enough to counter such a great deal of champions, then i think he should be considered OP

Arguments i keep seeing in zeds defense play out something like this "if you are getting destroyed by zed, you are just picking the wrong champs, what you need to do is pick champs that counter him" Which is pretty useless advice when what counters him lies almost solely in a single role, and invalidating such a large part of the roster is pretty damn unfair.

Also, high skillcap, high popularity champions winrates are never good representations of their power. Whats more, his popularity simply reduces the popularity of champions he counters, so while he is OP, if he never faces the champions he stomps because he is too overbearing for them to even exist in games in the first place.

I will be honest, i find less to hate about zed than most, i really like his gameplay paradigm and think he is incredibly well designed, and this is from someone who vehemently hates assassins! In saying that, i think he is over powered to the point that his counterplay is invalidated when he can miss half his spells and still 100-0 your character, that feels really shitty, and also i think that his shuriken are perhaps just a little too easy to land. Overall, i think there are worse offenders coughyesimtalkingaboutfizzcough

DragonapocalypseMay 4, 201615 votes

been there recently, udyr.......

Laughing FishMay 4, 20167 votes

http://38.media.tumblr.com/f92bafb98d1207de6e576012551f06cd/tumblr_inline_nxnnu1F0ov1sdr65m_500.gif

Wukong X AhriMay 4, 201615 votes

Mordekaiser Udyr Malzahar (will be gutted soon most likey)

rito likes to make me sad

http://mashable.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/crying-waterfalls.gif

Zero IchimonjiMay 4, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Worst Mord NA,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=XMBoEiOM,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-05-04T20:51:16.386+0000)

(will be gutted soon most likey)

rito likes to make me sad

http://mashable.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/crying-waterfalls.gif

Malzahar just got gutted.