When you are trying to stop a wave of Super Minions as a support.

Laughing Fish·May 9, 2015·97 votes·4,648 views

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-8_GZsT6uG-U/VRii7g4Vy2I/AAAAAAAAHd0/pZwlp2TXnyk/s1600/tumblr_mcfoxvFkOR1rw5melo1_500.gif

54 Comments

SociopathFriendMay 9, 201525 votes

I think one of my fondest "Yeah, I did that- that was definitely hard" moments was trying to stop a backdooring Rengar and Yi as a Support Karma. That. Was. Hard.

Chaotic ReksMay 9, 201520 votes

http://media2.giphy.com/media/b9aScKLxdv0Y0/giphy.gif

Rew711May 10, 20151 votes

They won't be backdooring once they face me with my Bard passive sending out over 500 damage per meep (and I have 5).

DUDE BROMay 11, 20151 votes

Pretty impressive since the max is 4

HazinessMay 11, 20151 votes

passive says 3 is max :O

The Red GoatMay 11, 20151 votes

The passive scales and changes over time as you collect chimes. Try doing a little more research next time please.

Rew711May 11, 20151 votes

Dude, the max at first is 1, then you can go up to 2,3, and usually 4 but I've had matches where I've collected enough to get 5 meeps to follow me. You continuously get more chimes as I've yet to see the limit. Take Bard into a trial run for yourself and just go around collecting chimes for 30-40 minutes to find out.

BârdJul 2, 20151 votes

1v1ing tryndamere

as Bard

u wot m8

WolfBVMay 9, 201511 votes

Leona support vs 3 super minions. Goodbye team I loved u all. ;-;

ThewannabegamerMay 9, 201510 votes

Shoulda built a item 3074 and item 3078 ;P

Davy CrockettMay 9, 20151 votes

I should do Tiamat on my next leo build!

IMMASCOOPYOUMay 9, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I should do Tiamat on my next leo build!

Ad Leona top baby, one of the most fun things to play vs a riven.

Davy CrockettMay 9, 20151 votes

AP Leo burst OP

Ariel the CruelMay 9, 20153 votes

I haven't run the numbers, But I always felt AD was stronger overall. Due in large to the 4-AA combo she can unleash. (Zenith -> AA -> Q -> AA -> Hydra)

Davy CrockettMay 10, 20151 votes

In terms of burst, I feel that AP Leona is able to dish out more damage than AD Leona. The AD combo with that is really solid.

Ariel the CruelMay 10, 20154 votes

OK. Crunched some numbers. First 2 are based on what seemed like a somewhat reasonable build, second 2 are based on attempting to maximize damage output. I should point out, I did not scrutinize all the possible builds. So the end result could be off a bit. However, this should still be close enough to be representative of the 2 builds.

(Skip to bottom if you don't care about the math.)

at lvl 18

AD: 111 Q: 160 (0.3) W: 260 (0.4) E: 220 (0.4) R: 350 (0.8)

Full combo using all abilities calculating raw damage. AD(3) + 990 + AP(1.9) + other

No items:

333 + 990 + 0 + 0 = 1434

AD Bruiser build:

Cleaver, TF, Maw, Zz'Rot, BotRK, Tabi

AD: 40+30+60+25=155 AP: 30 Other: base AD(2) + [BotRK]

798 + 990 + 57 + 222 = 2067 + [BotRk]

AP Bruiser:

Abyssal, RoA, Gauntlet, Banner, Torment, Sorcerer's

AD: 0 AP: 70+80+30+60+50=290 Other: base AD(1.25) + [torment]

333 + 990 + 551 + 138.75 = 2012.75 + [torment]

Max AP:

RoA, Seraphs, Deathcap, Luden's, Hourglass, Rylai's

AD: 0 AP: (80+60+120+120+120+100+[Mana(0.03)=78.96])=678.96+[total AP(0.3)=203.688] = 882.648 Other: 100 + [AP(0.15)=132.3972] = 232.3972 Total Mana: 982+650+1000=2632

333 + 990 + 1677.0312 + 232.3972 = 3232.4284

(Too much crap going on with this one. I don't promise 100% correct.)

Max AD:

IE, Hydra, Scimitar, BT, TF, Muramasa

AD: 80+75+80+80+25+30+[mana(0.02)=43.64]=413.64 AP: 30 Total Mana: 982+1000+200= 2182 Mana cost full kit: 65+60+60+100=285 Other: base AD(2) + Current mana(0.03) + AD

Muramasa: mana after abilities: 1897 1st AA: 1840.09 (56.91) 2ed AA: 1784.8873 (55.2027) 3ed AA: 1731.340681 (53.546619) Total damage: 165.659319

1573.93 + 990 + 57 + 222 + 111 + 165.659319 = 3119.589319 {+786.96 per crit up to +2360.88 = 5480.469319}

(again, lots of crap going on here. feel free to double-check my math.)

End findings:

The raw damage from a full combo using each of the builds: AD Bruiser: 2067 + [BotRk] AP Bruiser: 2012.75 + [torment] Max AP: 3232.4284 Max AD: 3119.589319 - 5480.469319 (crit variable)

Based on this, AD seems to have a slight advantage in raw Burst. Though it's also worth noting that MR has a higher gold value and most champs don't have MR per level which could result in AP winning out post-mitigation.

Another facet to consider is AoE. Since 3 of her abilities can hit multiple enemies while her AA's are strictly single target (or very small reduced damage AoE with hydra). So AP could also potentially win out in team fights.

The biggest factor I would point out here, is availability. AA's are available a lot more often than her abilities; especially her ult which provides just under half her AP scaling and just over 1/4 her base damage. Also, her Eclipse shield is easy to juke and/or wait out if not prepped before her combo. Further, AD helps her secure objectives which can make her a lot more threatening as a tower diver or split-pusher.

Over all, I would still argue that AD bruiser is the stronger build. But after running the numbers, I'll concede that they're both very close in peak burst potential. You can probably get away with running either one depending on what your team needs.

TL;DR: I spent waaaaaaay to much time on this.

EDIT 1: Found an error in the AD portion of the equation. This caused the total values to drop slightly (more on AD builds). All numbers have been updated accordingly.

EDIT 2: Miscalculated crit on the full AD build. The total potential damage has increased slightly. Total updated accordingly.

BRBGTGBOWFLEXMay 10, 20151 votes

Good work actually. I play Leona mid/top sometimes in normals and have found that AD is the way to go really. The best strategy is to work with the jungler, because ganking a Leona lane really pays off.

Ariel the CruelMay 10, 20157 votes

Fizz Lol. They have a Diana Jungle; time to stomp this lane. Caitlyn Wait... who are you up against?

Leona Hi Fizz! Diana I'm having Fish Tonight!

Fizz . . . Crap . . .

The Red GoatMay 11, 20151 votes

Yeah you spent way to much time here than I ever would. Also something else that AP build has over ad is that Leona's passive scales off AP as well, so having massive ap increases damage exponentially when any teammate is near, even a Bard .

Ariel the CruelMay 11, 20151 votes

The damage from Leona's passive is a static amount based on level. It is also credited to the ally that procs it, meaning that her magic pen doesn't affect it either.

If you're wanting to maximize her passive, you'd need an abyssal scepter (included in AP bruiser build) and a Wit's end (fairly weak on her) to shred magic resist.

The Red GoatMay 12, 20151 votes

Ah my mistake then. And I would admittedly take the ad build over ap if only because I like to focus objectives.

terkmcMay 10, 20155 votes

Obtain Triforce sunfire, proceed to smack a bitch

WolfBVMay 10, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Shoulda built a and ;P

So I should build item 3117 item 2045 item 3401 item 3074 item 3078 on my support Leona? :o

Maximum ZileanMay 9, 20156 votes

I remember about a week ago in one of my Bard games, we had 2 inhibitors down and the rest of my team just ran out of the base to chase the enemy team. Leaving me all alone to wave clear...

And they actually did rage at me when I couldn't because I HAVE NO FORM OF DAMAGE OR WAVECLEAR AT ALL.

DrCyanideMay 9, 20157 votes

"Spawn meeps faster Bard!"

QuortMay 10, 20152 votes

I've been in this situation before... somewhat of the same issue when playing as Soraka since all you have is Starcall to damage minions and you can't heal yourself on the minions either (though at least Starcall will put a dent in their HP after a few casts)! :3

Hello I am BirdMay 10, 20153 votes

Just ult the minions God these Bards are so dumb... Jinx

KrigjerMay 9, 20153 votes

This is so true it hurts.

Though I have defended against a backdooring Yi as Nami by popping all my summs, ult and actives. I don't build her ap either, I go mana regen/cdr.

TurangaLeela1077May 9, 20153 votes

Pfft, right? So many times, and then if I leave and dont die to minions my team yells at me for letting the minions get turret, when they chased a full health voli into the jungle xD

Sky of SmilesMay 10, 20153 votes

Sona item 3070

NielarkenMay 10, 20153 votes

My team left me at our base with 4 super minions as Soraka not cool man not cool

GavranMay 10, 20153 votes

It doesn't need to be super minions. ._. Sometimes the support life is hard.

Zeke MaelstormMay 10, 20151 votes

Isn't the support life always hard?

BoundaryBreakerMay 11, 20152 votes

Not if you're support Morgana !

xMissLadyxMay 10, 20153 votes

I feel like this as Nami... EVERY TIME.

SpecterVonBarenMay 10, 20153 votes

Don't even need to be super minions to feel like that with Nami. :(

rescuedMay 10, 20151 votes

THE FEELS!

R110May 11, 20151 votes

But as Nami shouldn't you have Waveclear...? I'll show myself out.

SleepyLionCubMay 9, 20151 votes

Anivia I Annie Dont Understand Velkoz What Leona You Karma Mean

QuortMay 10, 20151 votes

Zyra Support also has some pretty great waveclear! :3

SleepyLionCubMay 10, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Zyra Support also has some pretty great waveclear! :3

Lol, oh yea. I totally forgot she was a thing that exists

MarthianMay 10, 20151 votes

She is and one of the few you can just go pure offense stats and no one would blink an eye. Kit has little risk.

Zeke MaelstormMay 10, 20151 votes

item 3068 just can't stop the onslaught.

junglerboy16May 10, 20151 votes

Support Kayle can actually do that pretty well. Every other support? You have my sincerest sympathy.

MarthianMay 10, 20151 votes

Or trying to solo take the nexus. That has happened to me as taric. I was constantly auto-attacking the nexus alone since everyone was dead, then Ryze spawned and started to wail on me. I kept throwing stuns at him (using all my abilities to get it off CD faster) and then after awhile, I won.

Did I mention I had absolutely no offensive items, not even IBG, and it was before dragon gave stat bonuses?

theragingnerdMay 11, 20151 votes

Taric u can use your ult and because of passive it should off cd by the time ur on tops wave

The Red GoatMay 11, 20151 votes

Fah, obviously you've never been Braum. I held off 3 waves of minions having supers in them for several minutes. Sure I couldn't kill any of those super minions but, hey, I stopped them from moving.