65 Comments

Rikari30 votes

Vayne was not here apparently

Robotic Dolphin4 votes

~~>Vayne

Focusing the tank

Wtf~~

Edit: I realize my mistake, sorry for that.

Rikari12 votes

because the adc never has to get past the front line.

Mecha MaIphite6 votes

Tristana What's a front line?

Ariel the Cruel22 votes

Sivir Not sure. Kalista It's that thing you play catch with. Trundle I think I ate one once.

IceKingChernobog3 votes

Twitch i think it's some kind of skin ointment

Tis a nice day12 votes

Blitzcrank NO WORRY I AM GOOD BLITZCRANK I BRING FRONT LINE TO YOU

Ariel the Cruel6 votes

Amumu Hi!

badooga3 votes

Poppy Never heard of it.

Rikari2 votes

Kalista I call them satellites since they always stay in my orbit (aa range)

Gentleman Gems2 votes

{quoted}

Tristana What's a front line?

Varus: Not sure, but it's good target practice

aaronconlin7 votes

I think they just meant that Vayne melts tanks due to building BotRK and her Silver Bolts

IcyPepper4 votes

Yeah... the adc focuses the tank because they need to stay in the backline. It's the tank/bruisers' job to reach the enemy backline unless the frontline is eliminated first.

Chromatic Eagle5 votes

Can you explain this to bronze please?

SpecterVonBaren1 votes

You act as if a tank is any different from a squishy for Vayne.

Ariel the Cruel3 votes

Rammus Okay. item 3075 item 3068 item 3717 item 3001 item 3047 item 3110

insaiyanbacca1 votes

sunfire and cinderhulk dont stack bruh

DrathTurtle3141 votes

Rammus item 3075 item 3143 item 3717 item 3001 item 3047 item 3110

Fixed it

insaiyanbacca1 votes

that's better

Ariel the Cruel1 votes

my bad. Shows how much I jungle. XD

insaiyanbacca1 votes

lol no big deal jungle maining intensifies

lB2kGRlc8y3 votes

Yea, regen whores are the only tanks that are in any way effective against that champ, not sure why riot thought max health scaling true damage was balanced, as health was the only defense against true damage in the first place.

freeformline3 votes

"Regen whores." item 3070 Soraka item 3070

I have never before heard such a poetic way to refer to drain tanks. I'll have to use it next time I am frustrated with a self-healing champ. Coincidentally, I never thought of using regen/healing as a counter to percent max health damage, so thank you for bringing that to mind!

Ariel the Cruel1 votes

Yep. the Regen from warmogs works great!

. . . oh wait.

r.i.p. F.o.N.

TheEloGoblin2 votes

I call any melee crit building champ crit whores.

Yasuo Tryndamere Shaco MasterYi Yasuo Gangplank Yasuo

I just don't find it fun to play against them. Early game its all luck and late game they 2 hit carrys. also did i mention Yasuo ?

Danica17081 votes

It was made as a hard counter to the health stacking meta. It needs to stay in the game to avoid the League of Warmog's again.

lB2kGRlc8y1 votes

Yea, it could have done that without being true damage, Id be fine if she did % max health phys damage, or flat true damage, the combination is ultimate skill strength and is completely passive. It shouldn't exist.

Danica17081 votes

The reason I disagree is because if Silver Bolts dealt physical damage, and the enemy stacks Warmog's, that's still approximately 6000 hp they have (assuming 5 Warmog's and boots, plus their base health)to get through and if they replaced even just one of those Warmog's with a Randuin's Omen, yeah they've got a little less health, but they've got a lot of armor. There's nothing that can really be done. Vayne is, will always be, and needs to remain as, the perfect counter to health stacking, otherwise all anyone will ever do is stack health and no one can deal with it. It's oppressive, anti-fun, and ridiculous.

lB2kGRlc8y1 votes

Thats what armor pen is for, a single randuins will not make a champion deal no physical damage. Itemization has always been the most reliable way to counter a champion, and for vayne, the only counter there is is exhaust/wither combo from nasus. Her only valid counterplay is to make sure she can't attack, which is the generic counter for those without legitimate weaknesses. Playing alistar and having the bitch completely ignore your ultimate is anti-fun, at least with cho'gath and darius they had to use an ultimate to counter an ultimate.

Danica17081 votes

Regardless of your opinion on Silver Bolts being OP or not, it needs to exist in the game. Besides, if you think it's so OP, you can just ban her and your problem is solved. Oh but wait, that leaves actually OP champions available for the enemy to choose.

Also, Vayne does have counters. Frozen Heart, Randuin's, Thornmail all reduce her damage immensely because of their large amounts of armor (100, 70, 100) which protects from her basic attacks, plus the aura from Frozen Heart lowering her attack speed, plus Randuin's passive further lowering her attack speed. Combine with Exhaust, and a little cc and she's dead almost instantly since she's pretty short range and exclusively single target focused, plus, she's an ADC, she's squishy. She's not OP. Want even more counterplay? 2v1 her outside of the jungle. Best place for this is mid lane as it's wide open with few walls. She ulted and is stealthed? Try walking into the bush right next to you so she can't see you. I'm really not sure what else you want. A champion shouldn't get nerfed for no reason. With the tank meta coming back, yes, Vayne is going to be very strong, but good players will either ban her or pick her themselves.

Laning phase Caitlyn counters her hard because of her range and escape. Jinx is strong against her (Fishbones for range, Chompers for disengage/engage). She has counters, you're just crying OP.

Worst Mid Ever1 votes

with thornmail and gromp passive she isn't relevant

Father Cthulhu1 votes

No, she still is. True damage on her silver bolts never gets reflected, and always goes through. Main reason she gets picked against a tanky comp.

Solaxo10 votes

And then they buy crits or apen/mpen and %damage

Martyrofsand13 votes

And die to Thornmail+Gromp buff.

Godhri1 votes

and then double BT or BOTRK + BT or Essence Reaver + BT or Essence Reaver and BOTRK helps them sustain and kill the tank.

Martyrofsand1 votes

Of the combinations you mentioned only BT+BT provided enough life steal to counter both Gromp buff and Thornmail, every other combination only account for Thornmail and if both ADC and the tanks are at their end game Gromp+the tanks damage itself will tend to beat out most ADCs, save maybe Kog/Vayne.

Hell

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1779451415/43282169?tab=overview

Check this game. Enemy Jinx gets fed and yet still can't carry. Why? Because Gromp+Thornmail Naut is soloing her and her support Annie during team fights while the rest of my team 4v3s the rest of their team. Don't underestimate how strong tanks are and how difficult they are for most ADCs to take them down, especially in the late game, it's a mistake you will regret.

lB2kGRlc8y1 votes

as it should be, Tanks are meant to be able to tank, Vayne invalidates the role in its entirety

Godhri1 votes

I'm not saying enough to out sustain the damage from TM and Gromp but enough to sustain long enough to kill the tank before you die. I always run 19 arm pen on all ADCs except for Vayne and Kog; both of whom benefit more from attack speed runes. All other ADCs have the burst potential to burn down tanks given they have the proper amount of arm pen late game and given my rune build, I usually do.

But then, I'm not an ADC main. I'm actually a Mid main so... idk how credible my rune build which is obviously for late game really is.

Martyrofsand2 votes

Thing is it really isn't as good of sustain as you think in the late game. Let's look at the biggest tank jungler right now, Sej, vs someone like a Jinx in full build.

Jinx will do more damage, but Jinx is also going to have to burn through a significant amount of HP and armor to kill the Sej, around 300 armor and 4-5k HP. Even with a Last Whisper and an Armor Pen rune page you are looking at Sej having around 200 armor still, which reduces your damage by around 63%. Now say you have enough life steal to counter Thornmail, you will still be taking Gromp buff which at 4k HP would be 210 HP over 3 seconds or 70 damage per second 34 from Cinderhulk, so 104 total so far. Now to add her abilities, assuming no AP to make it simple...

260 from her Q 180 from her E 350 from her R 120 from the AA part of her W also at max level Sej has 111.4 AD baseline so 231.4 40+3% of your max HP per second for 4 seconds, or 160+12% of your max HP.

Jinx baseline has 1856 HP at level 18, with masteries I'm gonna say around 2k at max level. For Sej's entire kit over 4 seconds, assuming she gets zero AAs, she is looking at dealing 1957.4 damage to Jinx.

Jinx with a BT, BoTRK, Last Whisper, and IE will have around 329 AD and if she is using Fishbones she gets a 10% bonus on top of that so 362. Going to be extremely generous and say every atk Jinx does to Sej is a crit which would put them doing 904.75 before armor. With Sej's roughly 205 armor after Jinx's armor pen, including your armor pen rune page, Sej will reduce that by around 60% meaning she cuts 542.85 damage off of those crits leaving Sej taking 362 damage, effectively nullifying Jinx's crits all together. With sej at 4k HP Jinx is gonna need roughly 11 AAs to kill her on her own, although she gets some leeway because of the BoTRK active.

Are you starting to see how the fight favors the tanks far more than the ADCs? With a 1.5 atk speed, which is generous for Jinx using Fishbones, Jinx will need 7-8 seconds to kill Sej which is twice the time Sej needs to damn near kill her just off of staying close, not even factoring in the fact that Sej will more than likely get 2-3 AAs off shortening the time even more so. Right now full build goes to tanks in the 1v1, outside of the Kog/Vayne exceptions, if you assume equal skill/builds.

Meeks0113 votes

And then their passive magic resist and lifesteal wins out.

Crett3 votes

KogMaw kills me in THREE SECONDS

Sirsir1 votes

Cept he gets sploded for being out of position.

Every Kog I ever see...

MutantClaw2 votes

Gnar : tanky enough to survive thormail and gromp, yet deals enough dmg and %HP to kill you

RikoZerame10 votes

Volibear : Tanky enough to survive Thornmail, Gromp, Darius's ultimate, both Inhibitor Turrets, pre-Nerf URF Xin Zhao, 616 ping, and the simultaneous events of at least 3 Michael Bay films, yet "#@*) you, I'm Volibear".

Martyrofsand1 votes

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1794429819/43282169?tab=overview

And yet he just can't hang against my Vlad :p

All the armor in the world does you know good when I suck the blood right out of your veins

MutantClaw1 votes

*no and he didnt even finish one mr item lol

Martyrofsand1 votes

Shhh ur not suppose to notice >.>

idoki1 votes

But can Volibear melt steel beams?

RikoZerame4 votes

He can also see why kids love Cinnamon Toast Crunch.

MutantClaw2 votes

summoner 14 item 3165 and not to mention 2k dmgZed killing you before you blow your passive despite you having 4k hp 200 armor aaaaaaand gromp/thornmail

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