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The State of Memes & Games

Laughing Fish··6 votes·7,563 views

#The State of Memes & Games

##Introduction

Memes & Games is an important sub-board to me, and one that I have spent countless hours on throughout the years. It is the reason I have stayed on the boards for over 4 years, it is where I’ve met pretty much the only friends I have, etc. M&G has been a place where people can relax, post memes, and pretty much just hang out. In the years I have spent being active there, I’ve got to know most of the frequent posters, and interacting with the community. And one thing that I have noticed, is that the majority of posted there are specifically going to M&G to destress. Obviously not everyone if there for that reason, but a very very high number are. People are stressed, and want to relax laughing with their fellow community members about a shared experience: League of Legends. Times have changed though. The section has been slowly but surely falling into disarray. Posts that don’t even belong in the section constantly flood it. Rules are inconsistently enforced, such as the “no video” rule. Most of the time videos are left up even though the rule states otherwise, which makes it feel very unfair on the rare occasions it is enforced. This rule should either be enforced, or it should be removed. Both enforcing it or removing it are legitimate options but keeping it up but usually not enforcing it is the worst possible way to go about this. There is still a community there that is trying. Posters such as RustyPug, Lord Apex, Speedameen, and a few others are still actively posting and becoming a community. But a community requires support to grow and prosper. And that support simply doesn’t exist in M&G.

##Why does this matter?

If people go to the M&G section, and all they see is negativity and indistinguishable content from gameplay, what motivation is there to make their own memes? When posts will either get ignored or buried in a flood of complaints, what possible motivation is there for people to make effort in their memes? When no standards exist, the community will not have standards. This lack of order is stifling the community and drowning it in negativity. Anyone who has been on the boards for a while can likely recall how active and friendly the M&G section used to be. Groups of friends would form, and people would form friendships and recognize individuals not just their memes. But now, these people are mostly gone. Many have grown frustrated with M&G, and have left the section or even the boards. And this isn’t surprising, as it comes back to what I said before about why people come to M&G in the first place.

People go to relax and laugh at memes. If the section is overrun with spam and negativity, they don’t argue against it. They don’t fight it. They simply leave. When M&G ceases to be a relaxing atmosphere, it ceases to have any reason to exist.

Not just more moderation

A common fear people have whenever anything like this is brought up is stricter moderation. Strict moderation is unpleasant for all parties involved, as it feels oppressive from the community’s perspective and is a ton of unnecessary work from the mod team’s perspective. But stricter moderation is not at all what I am suggesting. There are three core elements that I feel need to be addressed, none of which result in stricter rules:

  • Consistency. Right now, there are rules in place that are rarely enforced, but are still occasionally enforced. This is extremely frustrated to experience, as it means you have seen multiple others break this rule without consequence yet you get your post removed. Examples of such rules are recruitment threads (i.e., “looking for gold support”), and the “no videos” rule. Recruitment threads and video posts technically don’t belong in M&G. Yet the majority of the time you can post them without consequence. So many don’t even know it is against the rules. inconsistent moderation is one of the most effective things at killing a community. These rules need to be either A: Enforced regularly not sporadically, or B: Removed. Both are fine option, but you need to commit to one of them. Enforcing randomly is just frustrating.

  • When people don’t see any moderators interacting with the community there, it makes moderators seem like faceless punishment bots. Moderators don’t help users post images there, help them with broken links, etc. I have made a guide (and to the mod’s credit, they were willing to pin it), and do what I can to help people. But it isn’t the same. People need someone with mod powers who will actually help them. They need to see someone in the mod team actually give a shit about them in order to feel heard. They need leadership. The mods themselves recognize the need for leadership, making specialists in GD and making sure GD feels well represented. Gameplay, PB, even Ask the community have specialist. Yet the only specialist in M&G isn’t even active on M&G. There is not a single M&G specialist in the mod team, and not a single active specialist in M&G. This is a problem.

  • Why is a specialist needed in M&G? No board posts as many images as M&G. And as I am sure everyone is aware, the boards is NOT user friendly. Posting images is not easy and requires a certain amount of trial and error to get the hang of. Someone who is actively helping people post images is needed. Yet I am the only one doing it. Nobody in the mod team is helping people out there.

  • Listening to feedback. Nothing is more important to keeping a community alive then listening to community feedback. Rules should be regularly discussed with the community, and the community should have a say in the rules. Yet, the rules in M&G haven’t been updated since Nov 2017. There has not been a discussion in M&G about the rules since before that. I get it, it takes a volunteer team time to get things done. Nobody expects them to just snap their fingers and make everything perfect. But, even for a volunteer time there is a limit to how long is reasonable. A year and a half is a long time. The mod team has said they recognize a problem with M&G and are looking into it for many many months. Yet, nothing ever actually happens. There comes a point when decisions need to be made, not just discussed.


##What can be done about this?

So far I have listed a bunch of problems, but complaining achieves nothing. Anyone can find what problems exist Afterall, it is fixing the problem that is the hard part. So here are a few suggestions for things I think could help. Obviously, any changes would require plenty of communication with the community of M&G, in order to ensure the community there is being represented:

  • Solution A: Rebuild M&G as it currently stands Basically, keep the current rules and purpose of M&G, and make it actually work. This would require consistent moderation (not random enforcement), communication with the community, and support for the community. There would need to be someone in the mod team who actually cares about the community there helping people repair broken posts, helping people learn to use the boards, listening to feedback, etc.

  • Solution B: Embrace the chaos of M&G, and formalize it. Another possible solution is to accept the structured community M&G used to have is too difficult to save. Instead, M&G would become a wild west type board (which it already is, though not intentionally) where a wide variety of posts can be made. This would require moderators to remove the rules that don’t get enforced (such as removing the rule against recruitment threads, the rule against videos, etc). M&G’s rules would be updated to reflect that it is basically, for lack of a better term, the board’s “trash can”. Memes, recruitment, gameplay posts, videos, etc., would all be welcome there, and moderators would ignore it all. This is what is currently happening, but this solution is to formalize it in a way that makes it less frustrating as posters at least know what they are getting into. I don’t like this plan as it feels redundant to GD, but still it is a possible solution.

  • Solution C: Kill M&G, merge with GD. One thing is certain. The current moderation team either can’t enforce rules in M&G due to limited staff or coordination, or they refuse to due to a lack of motivation. Solution C accepts this and no longer tries to fight it. Since M&G cannot or will not be supported, and since M&G has become a lesser GD (as recruitment threads, gameplay threads, videos, and memes are all posted there), M&G would be merged with GD. The reason for this is for whatever reason, the mods are capable of supporting and listening to GD but not to M&G. If M&G is going to be ignored and left unsupported, it should be merged with a similar place that can be supported. GD and M&G already have basically the same content, but GD is far bigger. If M&G is going to allow the same content as GD, it should just be absorbed into GD.

TL;DR M&G is flooded with spam, gameplay posts, recruitment posts, and complaining This spam and negativity is driving people away. Inconsistent enforcement of rules is frustrating. If a rule can’t be enforced, it should be removed. M&G needs to be supported, not ignored. If it isn’t possible to moderate M&G, this needs to be admitted and M&G merged with GD Doing nothing is the worst possible course of action, as it lets the community slowly but surely rot into nothingness.


P.S. Last time I made a similar post, I was told I wanted moderators to curate what is funny. This is obviously not the case. This is a straw man argument that I haven’t even suggested. So, if anyone decides to make this argument, I will just ignore you as you are either trolling or not reading the post.

19 Comments

ModUlanopo3 votes

So you claim not to know that support is needed (why even be a herald if you don't like supporting the boards?), yet then give an exact definition of what support is. In fact, you basically said the exact same thing I defined support as, though I also mentioned usability issues for new users. So you do understand why support is needed.

You made the following comment:

You know as well as I do that the mod team recognizes the need for support.

Please do not presume to speak for the mod team.

Laughing Fish3 votes

So you do not know that the boards needs support? Is that your official stance on this matter? And you plan to use this as an excuse to ignore everything else I said? Really?

ModUlanopo1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Laughing Fish,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=vl71NhQi,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-04-20T19:45:54.652+0000)

So you do not know that the boards needs support? Is that your official stance on this matter? And you plan to use this as an excuse to ignore everything else I said? Really?

I'm not ignoring anything. I'm pointing out that "the moderators agree with me about what needs to be done" is not a helpful argument, as well as being untrue. We can differ about what support means in general, what it means in specific relation to M&G, what it means in relation to what the moderation team can provide, and so on.

Laughing Fish3 votes

Never said that. I said the mod team understands that support is needed. You decided that this offended you, so you stopped listening.

ModUlanopo2 votes

I'm going to start a moderation team discussion about removing the "No Videos" rule. That way "inconsistency" will stop being a pain point for you. Any video posted with humorous intent will be permitted on M&G.

Laughing Fish2 votes

Thank you that should help some. But that is only one element. What about recruitment threads for example? These are also very inconstantly enforced.

And the lack of support remains a major issue as well. You know as well as I do that the mod team recognizes the need for support. Why does GD have specialist if they didn't? So why doesn't M&G get any kind of support like that? Why is there only one specialist, who is not even active in the sub-board at all? He doesn't even help people with posting images, I am the only one doing that regularly. So why can't M&G even have a single active specialist, even if it can't have an active moderator?

ModUlanopo2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Laughing Fish,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=vl71NhQi,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-04-20T19:06:13.333+0000)

What about recruitment threads for example? These are also very inconstantly enforced.

Those remain not allowed on M&G. If you find one, please report it.

And the lack of support remains a major issue as well. You know as well as I do that the mod team recognizes the need for support.

I know of no such thing.

Why does GD have specialist if they didn't?

GD has specialists because the community and rules set there are often helped by the advice of people with specialized knowledge.

So why doesn't M&G get any kind of support like that?

M&G has low traffic and the rules set is not different enough to cause confusion, outside of the "No Videos" rule. That's why I just opened a team discussion about revising that rule such that videos posted with humorous intent will be allowed and that rant videos don't count as humorous intent.

Why is there only one specialist, who is not even active in the sub-board at all?

Because that person recently moved to Veteran.

He doesn't even help people with posting images, I am the only one doing that regularly.

I wasn't aware that was a pressing need.

So why can't M&G even have a single active specialist, even if it can't have an active moderator?

Please feel free to come to the Discord and nominate people for consideration.

Laughing Fish3 votes

Those remain not allowed on M&G. If you find one, please report it.

https://i.imgur.com/Jmvhao7.png[/img]

I know of no such thing.

Why does GD have specialist if they didn't?

GD has specialists because the community and rules set there are often helped by the advice of people with specialized knowledge.

So you claim not to know that support is needed (why even be a herald if you don't like supporting the boards?), yet then give an exact definition of what support is. In fact, you basically said the exact same thing I defined support as, though I also mentioned usability issues for new users. So you do understand why support is needed.

Because that person recently moved to Veteran.

I never said why is he a specialist. I said why is he, someone not active in M&G, the only specialist. As in, why nobody else?

Please feel free to come to the Discord and nominate people for consideration.

Gee if only there was someone writing a guide, helping people post images, and making discussions on the topic already right? Too bad nobody like that exists.

And before you try to play the "I stepped down as a specialist card", as I know full well you intend to, I want to answer it right now:

  1. I was a specialist in ATC, not M&G. I was never once offered a role as a specialist in M&G, so I couldn't possibly have turned it down.
  2. I wasn't even a real specialist. I found out, apparently specialist do get to be part of the discord server and are not completely unsupported. So it wasn't that the mod team didn't care about specialist, it was just personal to me that I was kept alone and isolated. It was just me who didn't get to be part of the server, just me who didn't get any support, etc. Why even bother offering me the role of ATC specialist if you all hate me so much you don't want me to be part of any group you are in? That is just mean and petty. If you don't want me there, be a man and say it. Don't try to get my work for free while still ostracizing me.
Madjack012 votes

Hmm there seem to be some unresolved issues between LF and the moderation team because I always feel like a bit of personal tension creeps into these threads whenever LF makes them.

If I'm right about this I would like you to consider what you are trying to achieve when responding to each other.

I risk being presumptuous here but I mean well.

DJColdCutz2 votes

Is this guy trying to make everything too confusing to read by making new comments instead of just replying to the same one?

Laughing Fish2 votes

I guess he was using chronological view? Not sure though.

ModUlanopo2 votes

It's been discussed. If you want the Specialist tag and access to the Specialist chat, please feel free to come to the Discord and we'll get you set up.

Thanks.

ModUlanopo1 votes

I never said why is he a specialist. I said why is he, someone not active in M&G, the only specialist. As in, why nobody else?

Because the board has very low traffic and there hasn't been a need. General moderators can help with the vast majority of issues there.

Can you please provide clarity as to what specialist-specific needs you feel are not being met?

Laughing Fish2 votes

...Ah, you didn't read my post. I see. That explains a lot.

ModUlanopo1 votes

Gee if only there was someone writing a guide, helping people post images, and making discussions on the topic already right? Too bad nobody like that exists.

Are you angling to be made a M&G specialist? If that's the case, then you should come right out and say that.

Laughing Fish2 votes

If I would actually be a specialist, then yes that would be good. If you plan to try and get me to work for free while still intentionally ostracizing me (and only me, not other specialists), then I wouldn't be a real specialist so there wouldn't be any point.

ModUlanopo1 votes

Never said that. I said the mod team understands that support is needed.

You keep saying this as though it was some settled and well-understood thing, when that's not the case.

As I understand it, your concerns are as follows:

The rule about "No Videos" is unclear. - started work on that today. Things that don't belong in M&G don't get removed - I reminded the team that M&G is not GD and that we should be removing posts appropriately. There isn't a moderator or specialist active in the Board - As you well know, active posting is encouraged, but not required for either moderators or specialists. Again, if there's someone you think would help energize the community, please feel free to nominate them.

If there's something I'm missing, please let me know.

Kürama3 votes

Active posting isn't required for Specialists?

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