[UPDATE 2/26] Boards Testing and Thoughts

RiotKeyru·Feb 25, 2019·57 votes·31,257 views

Hello, boards!

As long-time board members may recall, the old League of Legends forums used to have a traditional forum comment layout rather than the Reddit discussion-view style comment layout. This has been a pain point for some board users and we'd like to test to shift it back to this old style.

We're planning to start by disabling Discussion View across all boards on 2/27. Comments will now be visible in the order they were posted rather than by popularity, and the reply button will now automatically quote the comment you are replying to so that the conversation can still be clearly followed. We do expect that this may take a bit of getting used to from those of you more familiar with the Reddit format, but we feel it’s a change that the community has been seeking.

We’re currently discussing whether or not we’ll be rolling out changes to the upvote and downvote system, so stay tuned for more information.

As a quick reminder, there are limitations to what we can change within the Boards which must already be developed. Any suggestions outside this scope, we will look into but cannot guarantee if it has to be developed and not already existent within the means of the platform.

Outside of that, let me and the Volunteer team know your thoughts~ I'll be monitoring this discussion.

-- Keyru & The Volunteer Team

134 Comments

rujitraFeb 25, 201925 votes

Discussion view is important on certain boards which may be looked at by players who don't normally read the boards, such as people reading Player Behavior threads for information about the system.

Removal of voting will also negatively affect this, as it allows people who are fast to have their misleading or outright incorrect information at the top of a thread, with no way to identify it as such.

ModThe DjinnFeb 25, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Discussion view is important on certain boards which may be looked at by players who don't normally read the boards, such as people reading Player Behavior threads for information about the system.

Removal of voting will also negatively affect this, as it allows people who are fast to have their misleading or outright incorrect information at the top of a thread, with no way to identify it as such.

It's definitely possible that we don't roll this out everywhere outside of this test, because there may indeed be some boards that it's detrimental to -- part of what this test will help discover. We're also not not really interested in removing voting, at least from what I've heard, although we may look into changes or removing downvotes alone (so that good content rises but we don't have downvote brigading). Again, that's all a bit up in the air right now.

KFCeytronFeb 25, 201913 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=qoB7gPrN,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2019-02-25T21:42:51.018+0000)

It's definitely possible that we don't roll this out everywhere outside of this test, because there may indeed be some boards that it's detrimental to -- part of what this test will help discover. We're also not not really interested in removing voting, at least from what I've heard, although we may look into changes or removing downvotes alone (so that good content rises but we don't have downvote brigading). Again, that's all a bit up in the air right now.

I am firmly against removing downvotes, as that makes it impossible to distinguish hidden gems from garbage. If e.g. 20 people see a thread and realize it's a thoughtless rant, right now they can downvote it to indicate that they don't believe thoughtless rants are a good contribution. Without downvoting, that thread stays at the default +1, along with threads those 20 people haven't even seen. There has to be a way for users to differentiate a post they see as positive from a post they see as negative from a post they haven't seen, or don't care about.

MarshbouyFeb 25, 201920 votes

yeesh, this might push me off of the boards. I do not like the chronological view at all. It makes it extremely difficult to read discussions.

But I got on the boards after the changes, so WTF do I know?

TinkerTantrumsFeb 25, 201919 votes

There's already a "switch to chronological/conversation view" button and a sort by best or new.

Can we keep those buttons?

AirKingNeoFeb 25, 201918 votes

We're planning to start by disabling Discussion View across all boards on 2/27.

What about users who like Discussion style? Currently, users have the option to do both. Why take a feature away?

RiotKeyruFeb 26, 201918 votes

Hot is back to the front page and we're not going to be removing Discussion view. Thanks everyone so far who has chipped in sharing your thoughts about how you use the functionalities and features. Best will continue to be turned off. I've edited the post as such but we're going to explore seeing if a few of the suggestions posted here can be done.

In the meantime we'll be:

Creating stricter rules for Gameplay since the removal of Gameplay+
Look into reducing repetitive topics from showing up on "Hot" (would mean more deletions from moderators or megathreads)
Creating some sort of rant thread/board
Exploring if upvotes/downvotes can be shown only in the discussion

If you have any other suggestions, feedback, or thoughts to any of the points above, please share because I am reading all the comments and listening!

ShadowGlaive213Feb 26, 20199 votes

It'd be nice if we got a little more notice before changes are going to take place because I felt a bit blindsided by this idea of removing Discussion view. It felt less like "Hey, we're thinking about removing Discussion View, what are your thoughts?" and more like "BTW we're removing Discussion view in 2 days and we already turned off the Hot and Best filters."

MinardeFeb 26, 20196 votes

I'd be okay with the short notice if the changes were explicitly temporary. Sometimes it might be helpful to actually test an idea rather than just discussing theoretically (e.g. Gameplay+). Something like "Hey, we're gonna do this for a week/patch/month. Try it out, give it a chance, and we'll have a feedback thread afterwards for your thoughts."

RiotKeyruFeb 25, 201914 votes

As a minor test before the date, we just turned off Best/Hot as a viewable option on Boards home. Let me know how it is. Seeing some overall sentiment, we still might hold off from fully switching but still need more thoughts and feedback!

Who is TaliyahFeb 25, 201936 votes

I think the "Hot" section should remain. It'd be difficult to find a topic that people discussed half a day ago, when people suddenly stop commenting, but the topic itself would still be worth to talk about. All you see are new threads, since there would be no other threads to reply to unless you search for a while.

The "Best" section was always a little useless in my eyes as most of these posts were 3 - 4 years old and nobody cared about these posts anymore anyways.

yay nibbersFeb 25, 20191 votes

It should just be like other forums where replying to a topic bumps the thread to the top. That way stuff that's actually being discussed is always bumped to the top.

Who is TaliyahFeb 25, 201915 votes

That is exactly what recent does.

The problem I see here is that it would take more time to find a thread.

Like one thread was created 15 hours ago, has 11k views and 44 replies. It's still very current, but when nobody has replied in an hour or so, it will be very hard to find when in the meantime 50 new posts were made and replied to.

One example for this would be over night. There are many different people on the boards. Some are interested in topic X, some are interested in topic Y. When topic X is still hot, but there are only people on the boards at night that are interested in topic Y, then topic X gets forgotten and hard to find when in the morning people interested in topic X come to the forum.

NaalithFeb 25, 20198 votes

Not sure I'm a fan, I check the forums fairly regularly but I also don't want to miss something interesting happening and hot is a great place for people like me to go. When there is a Rioter response for lore or a positive suggestion it usually gets upvoted quite a bit and therefore more people can see what's going on. Chronological view within threads is wholly positive in my opinion however, if someone responds to you you get a notification for it anyways so it's not like you'll miss anything there.

Sp33d Zer0Feb 25, 20196 votes

Immediately looking at the boards after this turn off I see stuff that has 0 business being anywhere near the top of the boards. Gotta say, not a fan such as the "Horny, immature boy" Kayle post.

Toxic Doku RiverFeb 26, 20197 votes

{quoted}

As a minor test before the date, we just turned off Best/Hot as a viewable option on Boards home. Let me know how it is. Seeing some overall sentiment, we still might hold off from fully switching but still need more thoughts and feedback!

Gimme My Hot Button back i wanna see the best the boards has to offer for the day on one page.

TeCoolMageFeb 26, 20192 votes

sort by controversial plssss

And discussion view sorted by time

And if we can’t, there seriously needs to be a better way to read a comment chain than slowly loading a new page each time

KüramaFeb 26, 201912 votes

Oh hell no.

Disabling features which actually help the boards shouldn't be disabled.
There's an easy way to mitigate upvote farming threads / posts and the mods already use it - vote disabling.
I like seeing the best posts upvoted, sometimes the most upvoted post isn't but it's something we've been living with, and living with well for years.
The chronological option is there and people who wish to use it, can. We shouldn't be given less options.
I don't get why this is necessary to satisfy the feels of people when what they request is already available.
It's a waste of time and energy for y'all to do this and I think sticking to developing new features should be a priority of the Boards Developers.

Fondling GemsFeb 26, 201912 votes

Hold on, why disable discussion view? I can understand making chrono the default as it helps make new members of the boards grow used to the old style, but there is no need to completely delete a view that myself and many other boards users use.

I have 0 interest in chronological view, as in 0. I would only ever use it on the Roleplay boards if it wasn't already forced on GD, and half the time I only end up reading the first few comments on any GD post because I don't want to have to scroll through a ton of in between comments to put together a discussion.

To me Chrono is the least intuitive view because I am forced to find the last comment in a chain, then keep jumping back through the quotes so I can read everything, then reorder it in my head. Then do that for every interesting comment chain in the post. Frankly I would post and interact more on GD if it had Discussion view, but as it is I post there maybe once a month at maximum.

If you remove Discussion view from the boards I am probably just going to leave. I love this community, hell I was part of the first moderator wave because I enjoy working with everyone here. Even though I barely play the game anymore I still come here to see what everyone is up to. However if discussion view is removed I just can't. I wish I could stay, but I already know based on GD how much it will bug me, and I will just slowly feel pushed away and alienated by a format that I can't stand.

I don't exactly enjoy LoL Reddit or ever visit it but I guess I will try moving there. I just can't enjoy reading chronologically ordered forums, to the point where I will read 3-4 comments in a chrono view compared to reading every comment in a large thread in discussion.

As a former mod I fail to see how cutting off a large section of the community helps build a community. It seems to me that these changes are aimed at removing everyone who wasn't part of the old community rather than trying to bring the two together.

I love cowboysFeb 26, 20192 votes

Discussion view caters to the first dozen or so people who can get a mob of upvotes going, anyone after that tends to get largely ignored as the thread grows larger. When people don't feel like they're getting their voices heard they'll then proceed to make a new thread on the same topic which clogs the boards with pointless clone threads.

Discussion view has massive downsides and when you offer it as the default option the boards suffer as a result.

Fondling GemsFeb 26, 20195 votes

[{quoted}](name=I love cowboys,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=qoB7gPrN,comment-id=001e0000,timestamp=2019-02-26T01:35:18.167+0000)

Discussion view caters to the first dozen or so people who can get a mob of upvotes going, anyone after that tends to get largely ignored as the thread grows larger. When people don't feel like they're getting their voices heard they'll then proceed to make a new thread on the same topic which clogs the boards with pointless clone threads.

Discussion view has massive downsides and when you offer it as the default option the boards suffer as a result.

Hence why I said that I understand making chrono the default, which I do think is better. In fact the more people that use chrono the better, for most of the reasons you stated. That doesn't change the fact that there are people out there who don't like chrono, and frankly the boards has been using discussion view for so long now that a large section of us have grown attached to it.

I like chrono for a couple reasons: It helps shove many unhelpful/clutter posts down to the bottom, and when it does raise them up it shows where a community stands on a certain subject.

It also makes threads that contain multiple lines of discussion far far far easier to follow. I can see what someone said, and the various lines of argument that branch off of that. I can have two different people respond to a comment with individual concerns and follow up with each of them individually; and anyone else reading can easily distinguish between the two, or easily scroll down past my entire comment tree if they aren't interested in that particular section.

On big threads it really helps organize things in a way that chrono just can't, and that I can't. Because I can't follow multiple different discussions in chrono. I do actually have to find the last comment in any particular chain and follow the quotes all the way back through; and god forbid if there are multiple interesting comment chains in a chrono post, or that they are being added to.

I like to think I am a fairly intelligent person, but chrono view just doesn't work for me. That style of organization is not how I think; and I will never be able enjoy my interactions with the community in an environment where I have to use it.

I know that I personally will read the small ignored comments in discussion threads because they are organized in a way that makes it clear they are stand alone comments, and not part of some larger comment tree I am missing.

I know the view has its flaws. I will never deny that. I also think that chrono is healthier for a forum. However neither of those points change the fact that removing discussion view will alienate a large chunk of this community because it is the view that we want to use. Discussion view has been around for so long now that it is a very real and integral part of the boards and the community that uses it. Cutting that out means cutting out a large part of the community.

DrCyanideFeb 26, 201910 votes

Discussion view caters to the first dozen or so people who can get a mob of upvotes going, anyone after that tends to get largely ignored as the thread grows larger. When people don't feel like they're getting their voices heard they'll then proceed to make a new thread on the same topic which clogs the boards with pointless clone threads.

Chronological view caters to the early birds. No one cares about anything said by those on page two. It creates the same problem your described.

Discussion view by it's nature highlights a few different starting points, and make it easier to see the contributions of those who joined the conversation later.

I love cowboysFeb 26, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Chronological view caters to the early birds. No one cares about anything said by those on page two. It creates the same problem your described.

Discussion view by it's nature highlights a few different starting points, and make it easier to see the contributions of those who joined the conversation later.

Just because you don't care doesn't mean other people don't. There's a reason some forum threads back in the day easily went on for tens if not hundreds of pages, but threads on the boards seldom go on for nearly as many.

DrCyanideFeb 26, 20196 votes

The more pages there are, the more pages are skipped by those joining. Everyone who's used a forum knows that there are the few who closely monitor a threads process, but many more will come in and ask a question that was answered on the previous page.

Endlessly repeating questions and answers does tend to pad the post and page counts though.

I love cowboysFeb 25, 201911 votes

Thank you.

Colonel JFeb 26, 20197 votes

I do not like Discussion View myself, but I would not advocate for it's removal at all since there is an option to switch between Chronological and Discussion view. I do not mind if BEST is removed, but HOT is useful. Especially on the frontpage.

Velzard of KozFeb 25, 20196 votes

Have you considered keeping Discussion View on Boards that don't need this form of constructivity like Memes and Games?

I feel like DV has its value and don't like losing it. Especially since even now with all clarity given I still see every now and then some guy responding to another guy thinking the other guy responded to him while he didn't, something that's easily avoided in DV and mess in ChV.

Further, ChV, in all honesty, is bleh and broken. It seems the posts are fetched async and showed though JS and it messes up screen when going from page to page, sometimes you can't know whether it got bugged or is fetching, when you post new post it just makes all posts disappear. Honestly the ChV seems too broken to be comfortable.

We already can switch between. If you want to make sure people KNOW about it, I'd agree with making ChV default but keeping the option to switch to DV.

Finaly, why not place these changes on Gameplay+ only? Quite frankly, while these Boards can be sewer, not every feedback will be nice, Reddit/YT/Twitter not being passionate in their argument doesn't make it "not echo-chamber" and even some hate-driven feedback can be valid. You only fixed Jax's Counter-Strike after Hashinshin had his anger episode in which he literally told "you" to kill yourself. His anger is understandable given how easily avoidable these important bugs are (should "on-hit"s be properly defined) and matter brought up was valid. Bringing harsh regulations, vote-system changes and this only helps make this place echo-chamber of different kind. One that will not "uselessly" point out that maybe we shouldn't give Galio the exact same buff that broke him long time ago. You know. Because it broke him agaim until he was gutted.

Gameplay+ (and Meddler's Gameplay Thoughts without intervention) are places already dedicated to constructive feedback, lacking vote-system, heavily moderated. Why not use what's already at hand.

KFCeytronFeb 25, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Velzard of Koz,realm=EUNE,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=qoB7gPrN,comment-id=0014,timestamp=2019-02-25T23:20:08.282+0000)

Have you considered keeping Discussion View on Boards that don't need this form of constructivity like Memes and Games?

I feel like DV has its value and don't like losing it. Especially since even now with all clarity given I still see every now and then some guy responding to another guy thinking the other guy responded to him while he didn't, something that's easily avoided in DV and mess in ChV.

Further, ChV, in all honesty, is bleh and broken. It seems the posts are fetched async and showed though JS and it messes up screen when going from page to page, sometimes you can't know whether it got bugged or is fetching, when you post new post it just makes all posts disappear. Honestly the ChV seems too broken to be comfortable.

We already can switch between. If you want to make sure people KNOW about it, I'd agree with making ChV default but keeping the option to switch to DV.

Finaly, why not place these changes on Gameplay+ only? Quite frankly, while these Boards can be sewer, not every feedback will be nice, Reddit/YT/Twitter not being passionate in their argument doesn't make it "not echo-chamber" and even some hate-driven feedback can be valid. You only fixed Jax's Counter-Strike after Hashinshin had his anger episode in which he literally told "you" to kill yourself. His anger is understandable given how easily avoidable these important bugs are (should "on-hit"s be properly defined) and matter brought up was valid. Bringing harsh regulations, vote-system changes and this only helps make this place echo-chamber of different kind. One that will not "uselessly" point out that maybe we shouldn't give Galio the exact same buff that broke him long time ago. You know. Because it broke him agaim until he was gutted.

Gameplay+ (and Meddler's Gameplay Thoughts without intervention) are places already dedicated to constructive feedback, lacking vote-system, heavily moderated. Why not use what's already at hand.

G+ was archived (locked, read-only) four days ago.

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-plus/OByzGOoq-a-postmortem-on-gameplay

IAintDariusFeb 25, 20196 votes

I don't understand why you are removing features that are optional. That sounds like a step backwards.

I love cowboysFeb 25, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I don't understand why you are removing features that are optional. That sounds like a step backwards.

It's a step forwards when optional features hinder rational and relevant discussion and turn the Boards into a game of farming upvotes.

IAintDariusFeb 26, 20195 votes

That has NEVER stopped happening in any online community.

I love cowboysFeb 26, 20191 votes

{quoted}

That has NEVER stopped happening in any online community.

You might not be able to stop it completely but I think it'll definitely reduce it compared to the amount going on now.

Also saying that it NEVER happened in ANY community is pretty hyperbolic and is a pretty big over-exaggeration. Maybe you should visit a wider variety of forums.

IAintDariusFeb 26, 20192 votes

Bruh are you serious. As long as we have lax rules we will never have less "low quality" post. People post whatever they want and it gets popular based on what people like. That determines what gets posted. Not removing features. Forums with "rational discussion" are run by heavy moderation that power trip constantly and heavy bias over people they like.

GreenKnightFeb 25, 20195 votes

Oh dear, are we finally getting rid of Reddit type of boards?

flibitydooFeb 26, 20195 votes

This probably isn't possible but would it be possible to move the upvote downvotes to the bottom right corner instead of the top left of every post?

It was how the forums was set up before the switch to boards, and having it in the bottom corner encourages players to vote at the end of reading a post instead doing something like voting purely on title.

LordRedStone Nr1Feb 25, 20194 votes

{quoted}

Hello, boards!

As long-time board members may recall, the old League of Legends forums used to have a traditional forum comment layout rather than the Reddit discussion-view style comment layout. This has been a pain point for some board users and we'd like to test to shift it back to this old style.

We're planning to start by disabling Discussion View across all boards on 2/27. Comments will now be visible in the order they were posted rather than by popularity, and the reply button will now automatically quote the comment you are replying to so that the conversation can still be clearly followed. We do expect that this may take a bit of getting used to from those of you more familiar with the Reddit format, but we feel it’s a change that the community has been seeking.

We’re currently discussing whether or not we’ll be rolling out changes to the upvote and downvote system, so stay tuned for more information.

As a quick reminder, there are limitations to what we can change within the Boards which must already be developed. Any suggestions outside this scope, we will look into but cannot guarantee if it has to be developed and not already existent within the means of the platform.

Outside of that, let me and the Volunteer team know your thoughts~ I'll be monitoring this discussion.

-- Keyru & The Volunteer Team

What about comments that quote an entire page of comments from before just to add some minor points? What about actual discussions?

rtbf225618241Feb 25, 20194 votes

Pages shouldn't reload when you post a comment.

I should be able to find my comment easier than sifting through pages of other comments.

spirit cookingFeb 25, 20193 votes

Id suggest a limit on posts per day.

Some people take over any thread and it becomes all about them rather than an actual discussion.

Not a fan of one person commenting to everything, because other people end up just sitting it out.

Also thread limits per day. Annoying when one salty person posts 10 threads. Annoying for mods to have to sift through them.

Who is TaliyahFeb 25, 20195 votes

That's a terrible suggestion if I may say so.

You can't just tell someone they may post 17 replies and open 3 threads a day. That doesn't work out for forums like these that want people to discuss over stuff.

As for people that open salty threads or try to troll on the boards, that's why there are mods here and a report button at the bottom of each comment.

spirit cookingFeb 25, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=Who is Taliyah,realm=EUW,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=qoB7gPrN,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2019-02-25T22:04:26.154+0000)

That's a terrible suggestion if I may say so.

You can't just tell someone they may post 17 replies and open 3 threads a day. That doesn't work out for forums like these that want people to discuss over stuff.

As for people that open salty threads or try to troll on the boards, that's why there are mods here and a report button at the bottom of each comment.

Negative shitposting would be cut down drastically.

Would you have used one of your replies just to shit all over my idea if you actually had to ration them out?

At the same time, it would not limit good, productive discussion. People would happily use a reply to express an original thought.

rujitraFeb 25, 20195 votes

Yes, but helpful and interactive discussions would be hindered, especially when discussions are constructive and span multiple comments.

Also, care to point out where I've ever "taken over a thread"?

DarkinPrimeFeb 26, 20192 votes

Somehow, I feel like this is related to players trashing Riot, deservedly, on the boards.

Linna ExcelFeb 25, 20193 votes

I have mixed feelings about old-school vs reddit. I love the old school style forums but I think reddit style is better organized via conversations. Totally fine with everything going old school.

Part of me wants to ask if it is possible to do some kind of hybrid of the two mixing the best of both worlds.

Hexs FortuneFeb 25, 20193 votes

Why not just keep both as we have right now? This seems like something that doesn't really need to be changed.

BoltonatorFeb 25, 20193 votes

I prefer it without having the best rated comment at the top because some posts that provide completely factual information get glossed over as a result.

Risk of FateFeb 25, 20191 votes

[deleted]

ModAttysu The PoroFeb 25, 20191 votes

Unfortunately I don't think that's something we have the current tech for possibly, but I'll poke and see what we can do internally with the feedback. Personally I'd love graphical improvements to the profile page.

Risk of FateFeb 25, 20192 votes

[deleted]

ModAttysu The PoroFeb 25, 20193 votes

It could be! That's why I said I wasn't sure. Some fundamental things can't be modified, some can. We're all volunteers and I personally know basically nothing about coding anything other than CSS. We have our friendly neighborhood Wuks who is the main person who does Boards changes of that degree.

KFCeytronFeb 25, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=Attysu The Poro,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=qoB7gPrN,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-02-25T21:53:36.449+0000)

Unfortunately I don't think that's something we have the current tech for possibly, but I'll poke and see what we can do internally with the feedback. Personally I'd love graphical improvements to the profile page.

I love how the "comments" and "discussions" views in profiles are ordinary, separate pages. This is the sort of thing that doesn't need to be a "tabbed" view that swaps page content instead of simply going to a new page, and "buttons" are just styling anyway. I would also love to have a better way of searching through my previous posts than scrolling to the bottom to load more results over and over again until the page is huge and slow. And if I ever browse away, that effort is lost and I have to "dig" again. Don't make me dig. Just produce separate pages of results, like an ordinary Google search does. That way I can jump ahead quickly, go to the "last" page (my first posts), or manually type in the URL of the page I want to see. Or how about being able to export and download our post history as a text file?

I like practical tools. As far as "slick and modern," I either don't care about it (when it's unobtrusive) or hate it (when it interferes with usability, like Boards profiles or the official match history site).