So balance team can keep my champion karma unplayable. But I can't even post thread to support change on balance team ? Thread "Petition to remove Meddler from balance team." was removed due to ""Don't be a jerk: Always be respectful to players, community members, moderators, and Rioters. Harassment and insults will not be tolerated". Like seriously, we players here don't have freedom to raise voice against balance team ?
ModThe Djinn11 votesYou can totally voice your concerns about specific balance decisions and request changes if you want. You cannot request that people be fired just because you don't agree with their decisions. The former is making your opinion on balance known. The latter is being a jerk.
DrCyanide3 votesYou cannot request that people be fired just because you don't agree with their decisions.
lol, since when has that been a rule?
ModThe Djinn5 voteslol, since when has that been a rule?
Since "don't be a jerk" was a rule. So pretty much forever. When your request is to demand someone's job rather than express your dissatisfaction in a productive way, you're just being a jerk.
PowerOfMyKarma1 votesI think I have express my dissatisfaction with Karma for example multiple times. Same with other Karma mains. What happened ? Nothing. He is not even commenting when you point out that Irelia has 69% kill-rate on lane against Karma. Like it is "supposed to be that way".
ModThe Djinn2 votesI think I have express my dissatisfaction with Karma for example multiple times. Same with other Karma mains. What happened ? Nothing. He is not even commenting when you point out that Irelia has 69% kill-rate on lane against Karma. Like it is "supposed to be that way".
I get your frustration, but it is not his responsibility to balance everything based on the community's demands, but rather to run a team of designers who individually gather data and design based on the information they have from the global player base at multiple skill levels. They also have to pick what to prioritize and what not to prioritize, and do not, sadly, have time to address every individual poster's specific concerns.
To be blunt, they are not hired to respond to specific community design woes, and the best way to make yourself heard isn't to demand their jobs, but rather to keep presenting rational, data-backed arguments, because -- Riot responses or not -- some Rioters DO read these boards, and I know that they occasionally pass on well-written and well-argued threads. You may not see a Red response until/unless they have information to share, but that doesn't mean your comments aren't on their radar.
PowerOfMyKarma1 votesI understand that it's their game so if they want they could nerf karma to have 2% winrate. But I thought that they want to make a good game. And in good game you need to have as balanced champions as possible. And there many things, that they do wrong. Just look on lane kill-rates. They are insane in favor of some champions. Zed or Irelia maybe don't have great winrate, but his lane kill rate is just too good. And they completely ignores it. Another thing is that they are looking at overall winrates. That is completely wrong. How can somebody count statistics from games, where people trolls, have bad PC, net drops etc. It's not about Karma, it's about whole balance team doing job totally wrong. Tanks and bruisers on mid first half of season, then funnel gold strats, then totally bad nerfs of adc, they needed to buff their early and nerf their late. They have done opposite. So there where no ADC. etc...
ModThe Djinn1 votesI understand that it's their game so if they want they could nerf karma to have 2% winrate. But I thought that they want to make a good game. And in good game you need to have as balanced champions as possible. And there many things, that they do wrong. Just look on lane kill-rates. They are insane in favor of some champions. Zed or Irelia maybe don't have great winrate, but his lane kill rate is just too good. And they completely ignores it. Another thing is that they are looking at overall winrates. That is completely wrong. How can somebody count statistics from games, where people trolls, have bad PC, net drops etc. It's not about Karma, it's about whole balance team doing job totally wrong. Tanks and bruisers on mid first half of season, then funnel gold strats, then totally bad nerfs of adc, they needed to buff their early and nerf their late. They have done opposite. So there where no ADC. etc...
As I have said several times, it is totally fine for you to be frustrated and for you to voice that frustration. It is not okay to petition for someone to lose their jobs over your disagreement with their decisions. That's really where the line is drawn.
PowerOfMyKarma1 votesI don't know. They are like managers in football. If fans don't like the manager, they call to replace him. Is the club banning them from social media ? Is Manchester banning Mourinho haters now ? No! They value them because without fans, there won't be professional football. Same here without players you will not have game. And there are mayn reasons why they should be replaced. SKT lost multiple times against gold funnel. So now BECAUSE OF BALANCE TEAM not BECAUSE OF SKILLS we don't have SKT on worlds. So yeah if not having best LoL team in worlds is not enough to call for petition then what is ?
ModThe Djinn2 votesI don't know. They are like managers in football. If fans don't like the manager, they call to replace him. Is the club banning them from social media ? Is Manchester banning Mourinho haters now ? No! They value them because without fans, there won't be professional football. Same here without players you will not have game. And there are mayn reasons why they should be replaced. SKT lost multiple times against gold funnel. So now BECAUSE OF BALANCE TEAM not BECAUSE OF SKILLS we don't have SKT on worlds. So yeah if not having best LoL team in worlds is not enough to call for petition then what is ?
Perhaps I did not make myself clear enough:
If you petition or demand or request that someone be fired because you do not agree with a decision they have made, your content will be subject to removal, and if you continue to post said content after warnings your account may be subject to punishments as a result.
PowerOfMyKarma1 votes? I am discussing the rule. I can't even discuss rule ?
ModThe Djinn1 votes? I am discussing the rule. I can't even discuss rule ?
You are welcome to discuss it, but the policy is not subject to change at this time. What other boards or oganizations do and don't allow it is up to them.
PowerOfMyKarma1 votesI am sorry then, I though, that if you have forum "Discuss the Boards" and I wrote there about board rules, that obviously board rules are subjects for change. So yeah guess we are wasting time here. So good night or lunch or whatever you will take.
ModThe Djinn1 votesI am sorry then, I though, that if you have forum "Discuss the Boards" and I wrote there about board rules, that obviously board rules are subjects for change. So yeah guess we are wasting time here. So good night or lunch or whatever you will take.
Some of them totally are. Some of them are not.
DrCyanide1 votes"Don't be a jerk" has been a rule for a long time. Posts still stay up saying the balance team should be fired. That sounds like shoehorning a new purpose onto an old rule.
ModThe Djinn2 votes"Don't be a jerk" has been a rule for a long time. Posts still stay up saying the balance team should be fired. That sounds like shoehorning a new purpose onto an old rule.
We have sometimes missed this thread topic, yes. I don't think a failure to properly enforce this in the past is reason to let it slide currently, however, especially when requests to fire the balance team are pretty much always a worse replacement for threads that actually detail an individual's problems with the current game.
In short, demanding someone's job over a design decision that you disagree with is a jerk move, not something Riot will take action on, and the thread that occupies a place that could be occupied with a more productive thread discussing your specific issues in a way that Riot could read and add to their data.
DrCyanide2 votesWe have sometimes missed this thread topic, yes. I don't think a failure to properly enforce this in the past is reason to let it slide currently, however, especially when requests to fire the balance team are pretty much always a worse replacement for threads that actually detail an individual's problems with the current game.
It's not a matter of "missed some in the past", it's a matter of "was not applied that way in the past." Which again raises the question of when that change in moderation happened.
In short, demanding someone's job over a design decision that you disagree with is a jerk move
It's an expression of frustration that no one expects to be taken literally. You wouldn't take down a post with the f-word in the title for "mature content", because you know the word wasn't meant literally. Same thing here.
not something Riot will take action on,
We both know that the odds of Riot taking action based on a single thread are slim to none. It doesn't matter how well written your thread is, Riot won't take action on it and it alone. It took how many threads complaining about how out of hand damage was for Riot to say they'd start investigating it? Are you telling me there were zero well written threads about damage creep before then?
and the thread that occupies a place that could be occupied with a more productive thread discussing your specific issues
We're not talking disk space (Riot would just clean up old threads if that was the case) so you must be talking about front page space.
If it's even occupying front page space it's because people either agree with the general sentiment expressed, or they're discussing it in the comments and expanding on what the OP started - or debunking it. Either outcome means that the Community feels it's worth talking about.
in a way that Riot could read and add to their data.
What even is this statement? You're not daring to suggest that Riot balances based on the number of posts, are you?
Chermorg2 votesIn what way is it respectful to ask for someone to be fired for a decision that wasn't theirs?
PowerOfMyKarma1 votesSo who is responsible for gold funnel strat, bruisers mid and adc nerf fail ? It destroyed season. People from my friends have completly random ranks. You don't see good teams in worlds. So yeah. guess it's okay.
Chermorg1 votesThe balance team is a team. I don't know how large it is (and in fact there's multiple teams that work on long term vs short term to my understanding) but it's not one person.
Furthermore, just because you disagree with their choices based on one champion does not mean they're the wrong decisions for the game as a whole.
Last I checked they're actually hiring for balance right now. You think you can do better? Go apply.
PowerOfMyKarma1 votesfunnel strat fail, bruiser mid fail and adc nerf fail are way more then one champ fail. And while the team does the job, there must be somebody, who is responsible for the team. I would do better, but I have good job. And It would not be good for riot anyway, because I would try to balance game based on raw data and not on what people want to play. So the game would be more balanced but less people would play, so guess that's not what riot wants.
Chermorg1 votesThat's not how Riot operates. Teams have a "lead", but their job is strictly managerial in nature - i.e. discipline if someone isn't showing up. The work of the team is the whole team.
Your ignorance of how Riot works and your claim that "raw data" is sufficient to balance a game shows me that you don't really know what you're talking about and are just complaining because you don't like your champion of choice. That's disrespectful if not downright rude.
DrCyanide1 votesIn what way is it respectful to say the Balance Team is a joke? Or that they're fat and need to actually do some work?
Who said anything about asking for the wrong person to be fired anyway?
If the poster is angry at the wrong person, then direct their anger at the right person or explain why their anger is misguided all together.
Edit: While I was writing this you handled the situation in the way I described. Seems you already knew what to do without needing it spelled out.
Chermorg1 votesI don't think any of those are respectful. I think any sort of rhetoric like that should be removed and not permitted in what purports to be a serious discussion.
Rants have a time and place, and interspersed with serious gameplay concerns is not that place.
ModThe Djinn2 votes{quoted}It's not a matter of "missed some in the past", it's a matter of "was not applied that way in the past." Which again raises the question of when that change in moderation happened.
It has actually been applied on and off for as long as I've been part of the team. We're trying to make sure we're more consistent, and part of that is hitting things like this when they pop up.
It's an expression of frustration that no one expects to be taken literally. You wouldn't take down a post with the f-word in the title for "mature content", because you know the word wasn't meant literally. Same thing here.
It's also an expression of frustration to call someone an idiot, or many other forms of venting. Some are okay, some are not.
What even is this statement? You're not daring to suggest that Riot balances based on the number of posts, are you?
Nope. More that if you provide good arguments and data, they can take a look at that and go "Yeah, this IS a good point. Let's add it to our list of things to consider." If you say "fire the balance team" there's nothing to work with there.
DrCyanide1 votesIf you're going to say/enforce that "you should fire the balance team" is worse than saying "the balance team is run by idiots", then that should be called out in the Universal Rules.
PS: Can you ask Wuks to make an "expand all" for the Universal Rules page? It sucks when you can't find what you're looking for and you can't use CTRL+F to find it without manually clicking on each section to expand them.
ModThe Djinn1 votes{quoted}If you're going to say/enforce that "you should fire the balance team" is worse than saying "the balance team is run by idiots", then that should be called out in the Universal Rules.
It's not worse. It's just also bad.
PS: Can you ask Wuks to make an "expand all" for the Universal Rules page? It sucks when you can't find what you're looking for and you can't use CTRL+F to find it without manually clicking on each section to expand them.
I'll toss him the idea. I'm not sure it'll take priority, but it is worth considering.
Chermorg1 votesPersonally I think both should be moderated equally - I don't think those types of statements are conducive to good discussion and personally I can't really justify spending time to read threads or respond where OP has said things like that.
Paranoid Kled1 votesthat falls under being a jerk, which is breaking the golden rule
PowerOfMyKarma1 votesThanks for response. But I think I can, I am not employee of your company, therefore your inner company rules don't affect me. And request for new balance team should be accepted. Everything is changing. Balance team will eventually too one day nevertheless of my thread, so why when I feel that current balance team is not doing well, don't have right to call petition ? And actually it is good for you too, at least you can see how many people are happy with team and how many are not...
EvilDustMan4 votesThanks for response. But I think I can, I am not employee of your company, therefore your inner company rules don't affect me. And request for new balance team should be accepted. Everything is changing. Balance team will eventually too one day nevertheless of my thread, so why when I feel that current balance team is not doing well, don't have right to call petition ? And actually it is good for you too, at least you can see how many people are happy with team and how many are not...
The rules of the boards apply to you. I also highly doubt you know exactly what balance designs meddler does and does not make.
PowerOfMyKarma1 votesI was saying to him when he wanted to buff Aatrox, that if he will do it then he will be 100% pick ban another mordekaiser and kalista of worlds. I was giving him a big help. What he does ? Nothing he ignored my post. Same with Karma. Completely ignored champ. So I want somebody in balance team that listen to arguments and have more knowledge about game. The one who should I not name, I think don't listen to arguments.
And with other part, yeah boards rules apply to me. But rules that suppress people opinions for change in 21 century... ?
EvilDustMan3 votesI was saying to him when he wanted to buff Aatrox, that if he will do it then he will be 100% pick ban another mordekaiser and kalista of worlds. I was giving him a big help. What he does ? Nothing he ignored my post. Same with Karma. Completely ignored champ. So I want somebody in balance team that listen to arguments and have more knowledge about game. The one who should I not name, I think don't listen to arguments.
And with other part, yeah boards rules apply to me. But rules that suppress people opinions for change in 21 century... ?
Balance team should not listen to random forum posters all the time. You are one voice out of a million. Why should you be listened to? If you have a problem, apply to Riot.
PowerOfMyKarma1 votesThat's not true. Not a million, there are about 200 comments on each "game thoughts". They should be able to respond and think about what people write there. I pointed out not my OPINION. But STATS. That Aatrox is already dominating toplane on high ranks.
DuskDaUmbreon6 votesThanks for response. But I think I can, I am not employee of your company, therefore your inner company rules don't affect me.
These are not company rules of any kind. These are boards rules - the rules everyone, yes, even Rioters, have to follow here to post.
God Himself could descend from the Heavens amidst a choir of angels, but if He rank-shamed someone here, then His post would be deleted, too.
ModThe Djinn4 votesThanks for response. But I think I can, I am not employee of your company, therefore your inner company rules don't affect me. And request for new balance team should be accepted. Everything is changing. Balance team will eventually too one day nevertheless of my thread, so why when I feel that current balance team is not doing well, don't have right to call petition ? And actually it is good for you too, at least you can see how many people are happy with team and how many are not...
This isn't an inner company rule, nor am I a Riot employee. This is a board rule, and I'm a volunteer moderator in charge of enforcing board rules. Asking or petitioning for someone to lose their jobs is not -- and will not -- be something we're okay with here. Voice your frustration in a more respectful manner.