@Riot Put my post back. I didn't break your rules

Unwardil·Sep 9, 2018·3 votes·1,994 views

"Hey UnwardiI,

We've recently removed your post for violating the Golden Rule on the Boards: "Don't be a jerk: Always be respectful to players, community members, moderators, and Rioters. Harassment and insults will not be tolerated".

Your removed content:

The problem is actually not that women are under-represented in gaming.

The problem is ever so much deeper than that.

The problem is that there are a radical set of activists out there, let's just call them SJWs as a catchall term, who actually think that they can re-write human biology through social engineering. That's what's going on here, make no mistake. They aren't a majority of the people at Riot, they are just a noisy few, who, unfortunately have been given control of the HR department, because that's where they can pull the strings and they don't care about gaming, in fact, they hate it, which is why they are trying to destroy it. [...]

Labeling people you disagree with as "massive narcissistic psychopaths" is not acceptable on the boards.

As a result of your actions, we have decided to suspend your Boards account for 24 hours. At this time, we ask that you take the time to review the Boards Universal Rules and applicable sub-board guidelines. Future violations may result in further restrictions to your Boards privileges.

If you have any questions about this moderation action, don't hesitate to reach out to the Boards Moderation Team via:

The NA Boards Discord The Discuss the Boards sub-board"

You silly fools, I read your terms of service and I didn't break them, even though you didn't include the offending part of my post so there's no proof left but I'll go through it shall I?

First of all, if an individual is being a "massive narcissistic psychopath" how would you like me to express that sentiment in a more board-friendly tone. Because that's what you're doing here, it's completely blatant tone policing and it's obvious. Calling someone a narcissist isn't an insult, it's my evaluation of their character. It's a very good word. Same with psychopath. However, these are your boards and if you don't appreciate psychiatric language being used, I guess who am I to disagree.

But the fact is, you're simply wrong, because I didn't direct those comments towards any individual. That's what it says in the terms of service. Don't be a Jerk to any players, community members, Rioters etc. Well I didn't. Not that I agree with you that calling someone who is behaving narcissistically a narcissist is being a Jerk to them. I call it being honest, but hey, if you thought that was how you should treat people YOU disagree with, you wouldn't have removed my post now would you?

Put the post back. It wasn't against any code of conduct on any level.

35 Comments

ModThe DjinnSep 9, 201810 votes

From the Universal Rules: "Do not post or engage in discussions of religion, ethnicity/race, sexual orientation, gender, politics, or real-world social issues."

Tone aside, the content of the post is not okay. It will not be restored.

Additionally, "Do not post content intended to insult, belittle, disrespect, or intentionally offend other community members as individuals or as groups." Insulting language directed at a group instead of an individual is still not allowable.

UnwardilSep 10, 20182 votes

Yeah, but read what they said.

They didn't pull it because the content was unacceptable. They pulled it because they thought the phrase "Massive Narcissistic Psychopaths" was not acceptable. Now, the hilarious thing is, the only way you would be insulted by that is if you were, in fact, a Narcissistic Psychopath but that aside, I never made any specific accusation to any group or individual. If the content was the offensive part, they should have SAID that was the offensive part, but they didn't. They were tone policing me AND YOU KNOW IT.

I'm still waiting for a Rioter to respond to my specific point. My post didn't break the rule that you claimed it did. Put it back.

ModThe DjinnSep 10, 20186 votes

{quoted}They pulled it because they thought the phrase "Massive Narcissistic Psychopaths" was not acceptable.

It's not.

Calling someone a narcissist isn't an insult, it's my evaluation of their character.

That doesn't make it okay. You could "evaluate" someone as an idiot, a pathological liar, etc., but calling them such is against board rules. If you're going to take swipes like that at someone or some group, find another place to do it.

I'm still waiting for a Rioter to respond to my specific point.

I'm the closest you'll get: Rioters don't moderate the boards. The volunteer team does.

My post didn't break the rule that you claimed it did. Put it back.

Your post violated both the rule the moderator claimed it did, and the social/political rules I cited, so no. Sorry to be blunt, but while you may make that demand I'm the one who gets to determine whether or not your post breaks the rules, and whether or not to listen to your demand.

UnwardilSep 10, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=LAsJA36E,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-09-10T12:13:34.506+0000)

It's not.

That doesn't make it okay. You could "evaluate" someone as an idiot, a pathological liar, etc., but calling them such is against board rules. If you're going to take swipes like that at someone or some group, find another place to do it.

I'm the closest you'll get: Rioters don't moderate the boards. The volunteer team does.

Your post violated both the rule the moderator claimed it did, and the social/political rules I cited, so no. Sorry to be blunt, but while you may make that demand I'm the one who gets to determine whether or not your post breaks the rules, and whether or not to listen to your demand.

I appreciate that the post won't be put back. That's not what I'm here to do. I'm here to point out how deeply rooted the Social Justice ideology is embedded into the Riot Ethos.

The reason my post was pulled was because I implied that there are people within Riot HR department who are intentionally working to destroy the very concept of video games from the inside. That's not against the board rules AND YOU KNOW IT. That is not a social issue and it's not a political issue. It IS an issue which directly affects the health of the game and of the community.

So the only avenue they had to remove it was to object to the terms in which I described that group. If the phrase "Massive Narcissistic Psychopaths" was inherently offensive, I wouldn't be able to quote myself in this thread as I have done and as you have done. It isn't offensive. There are words I can't say here because they break the policies and we all know what those words are. Narcissists and Psychopaths, last I checked, are not protected minorities. I'm sure they will be soon enough, but not today boyo.

Further more, I didn't direct those epithets at any specific group or individual so I didn't break the golden rule. You would have to self identify as a Narcissistic Psychopath in order to take offense to my words. I didn't point out WHO I thought were these things. That's why it doesn't break the rule. I was actually extremely careful about how I did that, not that you can see that from the quote because they removed the part of the post where I said it. Convenient isn't it?

So I wasn't talking about something purely political, I wasn't talking about gender or race or sexual orientation, I didn't insult any specific group or individual. They silenced me because they didn't appreciate me saying that their company is inculcated with SJWs who are out to destroy them and video games in general.

Now, is your contention that we can't discuss anything THAT COULD BE POLITICAL even when it directly affects the health of the game?

So I'll give you an example, what if a country passed a bill that in some way made it illegal to play LoL in that country. Are you saying any discussion on that topic is Verboten because it is inherently political? If that's the case, then I suppose you got me, but that just means that it's impossible to discuss anything on these boards, in which case, enjoy your dumpster fire while I cackle and laugh at you.

ModThe DjinnSep 10, 20185 votes

{quoted}I'm here to point out how deeply rooted the Social Justice ideology is embedded into the Riot Ethos.

And there is no way that topic isn't becoming entwined with real-world socio/political conversation, especially when your post sticks negative qualities on views that disagree with yours at the start.

So I'll give you an example, what if a country passed a bill that in some way made it illegal to play LoL in that country. Are you saying any discussion on that topic is Verboten because it is inherently political?

By default, yes, it would be. We'd have to decide, as a team, whether or not we'd relax the rules on that particular topic. I imagine in that case we might allow for discussion as long as it discussed the ban and the outcome of the ban on the League community rather than the political situation in that country LEADING to the ban and whether or not individuals support those platforms.

UnwardilSep 10, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=LAsJA36E,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-09-10T13:15:02.240+0000)

And there is no way that topic isn't becoming entwined with real-world socio/political conversation, especially when your post sticks negative qualities on views that disagree with yours at the start.

By default, yes, it would be. We'd have to decide, as a team, whether or not we'd relax the rules on that particular topic. I imagine in that case we might allow for discussion as long as it discussed the ban and the outcome of the ban on the League community rather than the political situation in that country LEADING to the ban and whether or not individuals support those platforms.

Ok, so we agree that it's impossible to talk about political issues even when they directly relate to the game. That's a problem in my estimation. How do I go about raising concerns about Riot's seeming focus on promoting socio/political issues if I'm not allowed to talk to them about it ON THEIR OWN BOARDS?

I'm not arguing that it's political, it obviously is, I'm arguing that if Riot has any sense, they should have a mechanism for listening to the concerns of their buying public, vis-a-vis their adoption of these political causes. There are an awful lot of political things that Riot does which people question and those questions are valid and relevant to the health of the game, which is definitely one of the functions of this board.

If an item is completely broken, this is where people come to raise those concerns. If a champion is worthless and unplayable in the current meta, this is where people raise those concerns. These issues are all relevant to the quality of the game.

So when the company decides they're going to radically re-work the working culture of the company from the ground up, I think it's perfectly reasonable to comment on that from the perspective of the health of the game it's self because those two things are inextricably connected. But are we not supposed to talk about that because it's political?

Put it another way.

Let's say you had a friend who joins a suicide cult. You think the cult is a bad idea because you've read about it and you know they encourage their members to commit suicide. You like your friend and you don't want them to kill themselves but the problem is, there's this law that says you can't say anything bad about religion or someone from the government will come to your house are rip out your tongue. That's kind of the situation that I see Riot is in right now, so how am I meant to tell them they are joining a suicide cult if I can't talk about religion or politics?

ModThe DjinnSep 10, 20186 votes

{quoted}How do I go about raising concerns about Riot's seeming focus on promoting socio/political issues if I'm not allowed to talk to them about it ON THEIR OWN BOARDS?

By removing the subjective, potentially inflammatory comments from them.

Here's a great quote from a thread that does this well:

I love this game, and I’ve decided to keep playing it. However, I can’t make myself support it monetarily until there’s an official apology about the recent controversies. I want to hear y’all say that everything that happened since the pax announcement was handled poorly, and you will try to be better than that from now on. You do this, and I will gladly buy more skins from you.

Or you could say something like this:

Hey Riot. I'm disappointed that you guys seem to be shifting your focus towards social/political issues I'd rather not see in my gaming experiences. As someone who doesn't agree with the direction you seem to be heading, I feel that my voice is being left out of Riot's consideration, and as a result I'm worried that League is headed in a direction that I am not comfortable with.

It avoids bringing up a specific political discussion, doesn't insult or make inflammatory statements, and is an acceptable voicing of opinion. That's the sort of content we're more likely to let stand, provided the comments in that thread don't skew it far out of line.

UnwardilSep 10, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=LAsJA36E,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-09-10T15:33:04.065+0000)

By removing the subjective, potentially inflammatory comments from them.

Here's a great quote from a thread that does this well:

Or you could say something like this:

It avoids bringing up a specific political discussion, doesn't insult or make inflammatory statements, and is an acceptable voicing of opinion. That's the sort of content we're more likely to let stand, provided the comments in that thread don't skew it far out of line.

Yes, but none of those actually says what the problem is that I have a problem with now do they. My problem is Social Justice. I don't agree that anything with a Social Justice focus has any value, but apparently, I'm not allowed to say that directly.

Am I supposed to just imply that and hope they get the picture then?

I just want you to say it as clearly as you are able that board members are not even allowed to say they don't like the Social Justice creep in their game because that Social Justice creep has already twisted the game so badly that it can no longer be criticized.

I mean, I'm not OFFENDED by this and I already know it's true. I just want to see you admit it.

Because it's fucking funny.

ModThe DjinnSep 10, 20185 votes

{quoted}

Yes, but none of those actually says what the problem is that I have a problem with now do they. My problem is Social Justice. I don't agree that anything with a Social Justice focus has any value, but apparently, I'm not allowed to say that directly.

Am I supposed to just imply that and hope they get the picture then?

I just want you to say it as clearly as you are able that board members are not even allowed to say they don't like the Social Justice creep in their game because that Social Justice creep has already twisted the game so badly that it can no longer be criticized.

I mean, I'm not OFFENDED by this and I already know it's true. I just want to see you admit it.

Because it's fucking funny.

Simply put, the boards are not the place to discuss your problems with political or social ideologies.

UnwardilSep 10, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=LAsJA36E,comment-id=000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-09-10T15:50:01.154+0000)

Simply put, the boards are not the place to discuss your problems with political or social ideologies.

Good. You admit it. I will leave you to conduct your business with the ministry of truth.

ModThe DjinnSep 10, 20183 votes

{quoted}I will leave you to conduct your business with the ministry of truth.

I doubt the Ministry of Truth would actively encourage you to find other places to discuss your opinions where those opinions aren't against the rules of the board in question, but you do you. I'm all for spirited debate -- just in the time and place appropriate for debates on that subject. :)

Pika FoxSep 10, 20183 votes

As much as i wish these threads to die, given recent events the "political etc etc" rule kinda has to get thrown out for a bit due to riots recent scandal. The subject in question is related to LoL currently. Just throwing it under the blanket term of "politics arent allowed" isnt possible given riots actions.

ModThe DjinnSep 10, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=LAsJA36E,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2018-09-10T17:28:46.584+0000)

As much as i wish these threads to die, given recent events the "political etc etc" rule kinda has to get thrown out for a bit due to riots recent scandal. The subject in question is related to LoL currently. Just throwing it under the blanket term of "politics arent allowed" isnt possible given riots actions.

We have given some leeway, and still do. When it comes to threads attacking ideologies instead of discussing the specific Riot situation, it steps across a line we're not entertaining at this time.

Pika FoxSep 10, 20182 votes

I get that, though i think, unfortunately, ideologies are kinda part of the discussion involved in all this.

ModThe DjinnSep 10, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=LAsJA36E,comment-id=0000000100000000,timestamp=2018-09-10T17:56:34.045+0000)

I get that, though i think, unfortunately, ideologies are kinda part of the discussion involved in all this.

Absolutely. It's an awkward situation, and this is why we've given some leeway but not full leeway. There's a tricky balance between removing too much and allowing too much, especially since social/political threads tend to bring out the worst in people. When the tone of a thread is obviously attacking an opposing ideology in disparaging tones, however, it's VERY clear that it's not a good idea to leave it up.

UnwardilSep 10, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=LAsJA36E,comment-id=0000000100000000,timestamp=2018-09-10T17:56:34.045+0000)

I get that, though i think, unfortunately, ideologies are kinda part of the discussion involved in all this.

Yes, isn't that just so inconvenient...

HalcyonDwellerSep 10, 20183 votes

{quoted}

The problem is that there are a radical set of activists out there, let's just call them SJWs as a catchall term

There isn't just one problem. Don't oversimplify things. SJW culture is only one side of things, there are problems on other sides of things as well.

UnwardilSep 10, 20182 votes

{quoted}

There isn't just one problem. Don't oversimplify things. SJW culture is only one side of things, there are problems on other sides of things as well.

Well, no, it's not THE ONLY problem, but it is the problem you should all be most concerned with if you care about the welfare of this game.

HalcyonDwellerSep 10, 20184 votes

{quoted}

Well, no, it's not THE ONLY problem, but it is the problem you should all be most concerned with if you care about the welfare of this game.

The welfare of the game is also very dependent on people not leaving due to being harassed.

It's not SJW to want to be able to enjoy a game of league without someone in the game acting like a self-centered asshole.

UnwardilSep 10, 20182 votes

{quoted}

The welfare of the game is also very dependent on people not leaving due to being harassed.

It's not SJW to want to be able to enjoy a game of league without someone in the game acting like a self-centered asshole.

But it IS SJW to believe that the way to fix that problem is by engaging in social engineering through the policing of language.

Riot has been very explicit in their aim in this regard. They have habitually stated out right that what they want is to create a more positive, supportive and polite community where everyone can feel safe and included in whatever choices they made about playing the game... And so you need to be OK with us controlling how you talk about it. What the hell did you think they meant? If you didn't see all of this as a necessary result of that, then you are dangerously naive.

HalcyonDwellerSep 10, 20181 votes

I'd love to talk about this more but it's a very political subject, which is against the boards rules and thus could get us into some trouble.

If you're interested in continuing this discussion, please accept my friend request on league, I'd be happy to chat about it further there. I won't ask you to play with me and you can unfriend me as soon as we're finished talking, if you like.

UnwardilSep 10, 20182 votes

{quoted}

I'd love to talk about this more but it's a very political subject, which is against the boards rules and thus could get us into some trouble.

If you're interested in continuing this discussion, please accept my friend request on league, I'd be happy to chat about it further there. I won't ask you to play with me and you can unfriend me as soon as we're finished talking, if you like.

That's very telling isn't it?

It's fine, I got what I wanted, which was an admission that the way in which Riot constructs it's platforms is designed specifically to make it impossible to discuss the ideas which lead to the forms they take. It is actually impossible for Riot to reform it's policies because it is Verboten to discuss how those policies are arrived at.

That's what I wanted to point out and I've done that. Were I still playing the game, I would certainly accept your invite, but actually I'm just here to laugh as this game crashes and burns. Does this make me a good person? Probably not. Does it mean I have no moral leg to stand on? Probably. Doesn't stop it being funny.

HalcyonDwellerSep 10, 20181 votes

{quoted}

That's very telling isn't it?

It's fine, I got what I wanted, which was an admission that the way in which Riot constructs it's platforms is designed specifically to make it impossible to discuss the ideas which lead to the forms they take. It is actually impossible for Riot to reform it's policies because it is Verboten to discuss how those policies are arrived at.

That's what I wanted to point out and I've done that. Were I still playing the game, I would certainly accept your invite, but actually I'm just here to laugh as this game crashes and burns. Does this make me a good person? Probably not. Does it mean I have no moral leg to stand on? Probably. Doesn't stop it being funny.

That's too bad. There are some valuable things we could have exchanged ideas about.

"Lauging as the game crashes and burns" seems kind of... I don't want to be rude but best word I can find for this is "petty." Why don't you do something better with your time?

UnwardilSep 10, 20182 votes

{quoted}

That's too bad. There are some valuable things we could have exchanged ideas about.

"Lauging as the game crashes and burns" seems kind of... I don't want to be rude but best word I can find for this is "petty." Why don't you do something better with your time?

Yeah, that's fair.

I've been buying a house and juggling a bunch of boring adult shit all day. This is just some fun for me between emails and talking to lawyers and real estate agents.

Honestly, I'm kind of torn between my hatred of Social Justice and my hatred of the League Community for inviting them in. On the one hand, I want to see SJWs fail at life because it's what they deserve, but on the other hand, I want the league community to crash and burn because they were dangerously naive and it's what THEY deserve and I can't have it both ways.

I think, on balance, I'm on the league communities side, which is why I keep posting, because ultimately, I want this SJW nonsense purged from gaming on the basis that sometime in the future I will find a new game that I love and I won't want IT to be ruined in the same way as League was.

So I suppose I would accept your invite, were it not for the fact that I haven't patched the game in 6 months and don't really want to waste the time on it. Can you suggest some other means of communication?

HalcyonDwellerSep 10, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, that's fair.

I've been buying a house and juggling a bunch of boring adult shit all day. This is just some fun for me between emails and talking to lawyers and real estate agents.

Honestly, I'm kind of torn between my hatred of Social Justice and my hatred of the League Community for inviting them in. On the one hand, I want to see SJWs fail at life because it's what they deserve, but on the other hand, I want the league community to crash and burn because they were dangerously naive and it's what THEY deserve and I can't have it both ways.

Well, I disapprove of that attitude, but I don't think that we'll accomplish anything debating about it so I'll leave that topic alone.

I think, on balance, I'm on the league communities side, which is why I keep posting, because ultimately, I want this SJW nonsense purged from gaming on the basis that sometime in the future I will find a new game that I love and I won't want IT to be ruined in the same way as League was.

That's fair. It's natural to want to avoid the repetition of past mistakes (by gaming companies or communities), especially when they affect our ability to enjoy the game. But I'm not sure I agree that this applies fully to league. There's certainly tone policing, and I don't think it is effective, but for me at least, it hasn't ruined the game.

So I suppose I would accept your invite, were it not for the fact that I haven't patched the game in 6 months and don't really want to waste the time on it. Can you suggest some other means of communication?

If you'd like to join the boards discord and @ me in the general chat we can add one another on discord and then start a DM.

Here's the link to the post about how to join that discord:

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/community-moderation/7rtKBZLi-boards-moderation-discord-verification

UnwardilSep 10, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Well, I disapprove of that attitude, but I don't think that we'll accomplish anything debating about it so I'll leave that topic alone.

That's fair. It's natural to want to avoid the repetition of past mistakes (by gaming companies or communities), especially when they affect our ability to enjoy the game. But I'm not sure I agree that this applies fully to league. There's certainly tone policing, and I don't think it is effective, but for me at least, it hasn't ruined the game.

If you'd like to join the boards discord and @ me in the general chat we can add one another on discord and then start a DM.

Here's the link to the post about how to join that discord:

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/community-moderation/7rtKBZLi-boards-moderation-discord-verification

That's all very fiddly looking but I can see everyone in the channel. I could send you a PM from there if I knew who to send it to.

HalcyonDwellerSep 10, 20181 votes

{quoted}

That's all very fiddly looking but I can see everyone in the channel. I could send you a PM from there if I knew who to send it to.

Try typing @HalcyonDweller, it should pop up with an auto-complete @ tag for me.

I tried @Unwardil, but nothing popped up for auto-complete, so it looks like you're not using this account in the Boards Discord server.

UnwardilSep 10, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Try typing @HalcyonDweller, it should pop up with an auto-complete @ tag for me.

I tried @Unwardil, but nothing popped up for auto-complete, so it looks like you're not using this account in the Boards Discord server.

Yeah, I can't add you for fair and obvious reasons and I don't really want to put my personal info up here, so I guess this is the end for this. Ah well, would have been fun but hey, far be it for me to suggest that people could just discuss things pertinent to the game on the game's actual message boards right?

HalcyonDwellerSep 10, 20181 votes

That's a cop-out. It's easy to use the boards discord. No personal info is required to get verified there.

You have an easy means of discussing this with me, if you so choose to use it. It's not the boards that are preventing us from having this discussion anymore, it's only you.

UnwardilSep 10, 20182 votes

{quoted}

That's a cop-out. It's easy to use the boards discord. No personal info is required to get verified there.

You have an easy means of discussing this with me, if you so choose to use it. It's not the boards that are preventing us from having this discussion anymore, it's only you.

You're right, that was relatively easy.

Look for jonny4shirts on there

LBmyBBSep 10, 20182 votes

You silly fools

Careful, you might get banned cuz you hurt someone's precious feelings

AlzonSep 10, 20181 votes

Historically, “preaching repentance” has not led to positive outcomes for the speakers.

Even if your post wasn’t belittling, you’d get the same results.

UnwardilSep 10, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Historically, “preaching repentance” has not led to positive outcomes for the speakers.

Even if your post wasn’t belittling, you’d get the same results.

I don't know what this is in response to.