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Champion Update...Update - 4.9 & 4.10

RiotRiotSeb··7 votes·28,512 views

Hey guys,

RiotSeb back with some info on Champion Update projects headed to Live / PBE with the current patch cycle.

Karthus

The Karthus Visual Update is headed to live! With the help of your feedback we made several changes to Karthus during his time on PBE, mostly centered on clarity but with a little swag mixed in for good measure.

Some of you had expressed concern about losing Karthus’ abilities within each other due to color similarity, and internally we wanted to make sure players could tell the difference between abilities cast by friendly/enemy Karthuses (Karthi?). We decided to kill two Teemos with one axe by adding friendly and enemy team-color indicators to Karthus’ basic abilities, so they should be more distinguishable when you’ve got spells flying all over the screen. We’ve also done some optimization work on Defile, as it was originally a bit performance-heavy and visually noisy given how often it’s used.

We also saw some requests for global VO on Requiem; the main issue there is that Karthus’ R lines are pretty dang long so as to match the channel time, and long global VO could turn annoying very quickly when you’re hearing it (not to mention dying to it) every couple minutes. We definitely liked the idea though, so we added a global, evil laugh to Requiem that’ll crank up the feeling of impending doom no matter where your enemies are on the map.

As I’ve mentioned previously, we’re committed to following through on Champion Updates post-Live and making sure their foundations are solid. With Karthus, we’re keeping an eye on couple areas such as whether his frenetic casting causes VO overlap and whether his clearer Q effect results in the ol’ lich needing a bit more power.

Skarner

We’ve been working on Skarner for a while now, and in addition to some of the gameplay updates we’ve discussed previously we also had time to flesh out his thematic through some art upgrades and a brand new passive.

While continuing to avoid Skarner’s old gameplay problems, we’re looking to increase his power with more CC and stickiness as well as enable him to consistently bring value to his team even when behind. To that end, Crystal Slash now grants Skarner stacking Movement Speed, and the scorpion is sporting a new passive that stacks on enemies every time he hits them with a spell – at 3 stacks, Skarner’s next attack applies bonus damage and a short stun.

Skarner’s new passive obviously required some new VFX, and we decided to take the opportunity to roll together some other key art updates. In addition to the obligatory passive particle, Skarner has received a Texture Update as well as a touched-up shield particle on his W.

If you’d like to dig deeper into Skarner’s approaching update you can head on over to his PBE thread.

Nidalee

With her nuclear-tipped spears and incredible escapability, Nidalee's been a contentious champion for a long time, and we’ve been working on a Gameplay Update focused on toning down the frustration of playing against her and giving Nidalee players more diverse gameplay options and decision points.

To that end, we knew we wanted to reduce the damage potential of Javelin Toss as well as tone down Nidalee’s overall safety (especially in prolonged chases) and force her to balance escape potential against the ability to finish off opponents. Doing so gave us the opportunity to diversify her offensive arsenal and make Cougar form a more co-equal partner in Nidalee’s engagements – furthered by the fact that Cougar form is now available right from level 1. The defining feature of this update is a new ‘Hunt’ mechanic , which is applied by Nidalee’s human-form abilities and both increases her speed towards Hunted targets and provides additional options and power to her Cougar-form abilities. Along with some other changes, this mechanic links Nidalee's two forms into a more cohesive package and gives her the chance to feel incredibly agile and dangerous in her ability to close the distance and take an enemy down.

Head over to the Nidalee PBE thread if you’d like to see the current specifics of her upcoming Gameplay Update.

109 Comments

Thales11 votes

With Karthus's Requiem voiceover, will he be able to hear his own lines globally? If I'm ulting as Karthus, I'm often looking at a different part of the map than the one I'm in, so I'd miss out on all those badass VO lines.

"Sing, with your final breath!"

RiotRiotSeb20 votes

That's a good idea, thanks for mentioning it! Will have to look into this possibility because based on what I can think of right now, he'd be the only champion that uses it (unless we want to do Ashe/Jinx/Ezreal ults as well or something...)

Thales3 votes

Ah, good to hear that might be possible. I'm really looking forward to trying out on live the new look for the champ I mained for so long!

Deep Terror Nami8 votes

Bad idea for the other Global Ults, imo. You can't prepare to dodge Requiem because it's going to hit you wherever you move (not counting Zhonya's etc) and you can see it already anyway. Giving everybody the heads up for an Arrow or Barrage would make it easier to dodge and would be a huge nerf, however.

TL;DR - Love the global voice idea for Karthus, and him only.

Besos7 votes

I believe he said if you can hear it yourself when you are looking at other parts of the map. Not enemies.

Deep Terror Nami3 votes

Ah, right. Well I don't see the point in just you hearing yourself regardless of where you're looking. I still think everybody should be able to hear Karthus when he ults.

Messiah Darksai2 votes

I think everybody on Karthus's "team" should hear it when he Ults. Since his cooldowns are the way they are, it could alert the whole team that someone has gone down low on the hp bar (if the Karthus user is smart enough when to pop it). Then champions like Lux's ult can snipe for the last hit kill.

Hyrum Graff4 votes

Don't forget Soraka !

Linna Excel7 votes

Soraka's wish could also use it. It's the reverse of Karthus' ult.

How Do You Meta3 votes

DONT FORGET THE SORAKA ULT DAMN IT

BombBardMent2 votes

Pantheons voice should be global when ulting! Others would be.... Soraka, twisted fate, and is nocturnes voice global?.

Daeth Wish4 votes

Nocturne says, "Darkness" when he ults and it is a global voice.

BeastlyNig2 votes

soroka would also utilize this in her upcoming rework as well.

suckitsummoner1 votes

I AM THE LIGHTBRINGER!!! Karthus Karthus Karthus Karthus Karthus Karthus Karthus Karthus Karthus Karthus Karthus Karthus Karthus Karthus Karthus Karthus Karthus Karthus Karthus Karthus Karthus Karthus Karthus Karthus Karthus Karthus Karthusitem 3185 item 3185 item 3185 item 3185 item 3185 item 3185 item 3185 item 3185 item 3185 item 3185 item 3185 item 3185 item 3185 item 3185 item 3185

RiotRiot Scruffy10 votes

The only true way to say it is Kartoos (like caboose).

RiotQuquroon10 votes

Karrrrtoooooooooooooos! It's the rolling of the R that really makes it.

ohmikegoodness10 votes

I personally refer to Karthus as CLOTHUS due to all the hours put into animating all his tassels. Soraka takes a close second to difficulty in animating!

Le Wren6 votes

I love Riot employees more and more everyday.

CaptainWednesday6 votes

I don't see anything here about Urgot .

This onslaught of Urgot propaganda will continue my crab has received Riot's attention.

Fishing Boat4 votes

Bring forth the spam my brother. Soon they will know our pain.

Mansana5 votes

Question: Can the stunned target from Skarner's passive look similar to how they're encased in Skarner's ultimate?

RiotRiot Scruffy8 votes

The crystallized effect is similar, check it out on PBE when the servers come up.

Mansana4 votes

Is this a sign of the battle cast skin coming Soon™? (No answer needed. Might as well be rhetorical but any hints appreciated)

lightdragoon885 votes

One day Skarner...one day...

Kourii2 votes

Hey so I have an idea. Right now the new name of Skarner's passive is crystallizing sting and it applies stacks of "crystal poison". But I feel like using the word "crystal" so many times in the kit makes it really stale and overused. How about calling it "petrifying poison" instead? Rolls off the tongue and still has the same meaning (highlighted below).

pet·ri·fi·ca·tion n.

  1. A process of fossilization in which dissolved minerals replace organic matter.
  2. The state of being stunned or paralyzed with fear.
ShamrockOG4 votes

Skarner in this meta going now is just about nothing. I know im not the highest elo but i dont see him coming back into any scene anytime soon even with this update.

Predatorator4 votes

About Skarner...With all the given respect, Qs damage nerfs are actually too much to compensate the new passive, along with damage nerfs on his other abilities. I know, these changes are not yet confirmed to go live, but i hope You're going to raise its damage, if not revert it. Thank You for reading.

JL Snow4 votes

About Skarner;

I played a lot of Skarner and Nautilus to teach myself the jungle, and for awhile, Skarner was accepted because while he was niche, he at least had a niche. The idea with him was that he could get in, and as the game progressed, it went from hard to get in to easy to get in, and the enemy team took a lot out to stop Skarner from getting in or making him blow his ult on the wrong person. He was great for fighting teams with hyper carries because on the right engage he could either get the hyper carry killed real fast, or at least force them out of the fight solely on the fear of his stinger.

You (Riot) made this impossible with changes to his W, which therefore made him more squishy, made his early game worse, made his farming take longer, and essentially put him out of comission for any serious player, and this was done on purpose because for whatever reason, despite how poorly Skarner was represented, you didn't like his play pattern. So you purposely nerfed him to make him unviable, as you did with Eve, so that you could focus on remaking him while not worrying about balancing him.

Now that you've completely remade his kit, you've admitted to failing on his remake, and have already started to remake the remake that you forced through anyway. Lets keep in mind that since you gutted and remade Skarner, you've also thoroughly changed the way the game is played, through champion nerfs and buffs, balancing of champions, items, etc.; What made Skarner good before, even in his original state, completely untouched, he would still be completely unviable right now, much for the same reason Nautilus is; building tanky early with mediocre base values does not give as much of an effect due to how bursty big name champs are right now, and their shields get eaten. You can't build early damage on them to give them threat during champions trying to break that shield by punishing them because they scale awfully. The more recent version of Skarner was on the right path in that at least if he was on a target with a shield, he could put out some damage in exchange for having his shield eaten. His major problem was that there was no longer a reliable slow, and even when landing an E, it did not allow him to capitalize on anything other than maybe landing an ult, but as soon as the ult was done, Skarner was back to bad.

Now you're trying to fix him yet again by giving him a worse version of Braum's passive, and removing his damage across the board, as well as killing his scaling. So now he will have the exact same balance and play problems as before; he will not be able to build tanky due to bad base damage, and he can't fix it by getting an early DPS item because the options for early DPS items in the jungle will not scale on him at all, and just make fixing the squish issue take that much longer, item wise. You've lowered the cooldown on W, but that doesn't mean anything as part of (what I think) made Skarner was that landing auto attacks lowered the cooldown, and that has long since been removed. All you've done with that change is give a little of that cooldown time back, but we still can't itemize to scale the shield at all like Nautilus so without the ability to make that mediocre shield come up more frequently we are again, as always, back to square one.

I get the overwhelming feeling that I'll not really ever get to seriously play Skarner again in ranked, and that's pretty disappointing. I also get the impression that that doesn't really matter to Riot, as the repeated 'focus' on Skarner is to ignore most of what made Skarner good and try to make us feel better that you've essentially taken the engine out of our Ferrari and put in one from a KIA, but you gave us power doors and windows and seat warmers and other funsies.

Please just accept that you've tried this iteration of Skarner, and that you've extremely failed this iteration of Skarner, and that you need to go back to the drawing board and wipe that shit clean. Start over. I'd really like to play him again before S6+ and not get scolded for it.

Thornmaelstrom3 votes

Will the new "3 stacks for Stun" pattern dominate Skarner's flow now? That's going to considerably change the feel for the champion than the heavily specialized-movespeed-champ "I make myself faster and you slower and attack while moving" feel he's had since day1.
Back in Season2, there was always some background noise of "champion homogenization!" and I never thought I'd join it, but I really don't want to see 'all bruisers collapsing upon a single balance point'.
At the very least, How about replacing the stun with a micro-duration super-slow? Like 99% Slow that fades off over 0.5s or something? Doing this could allow him to apply it more often, and try to interweave it with his other slow. (A 'sine' pattern of heavyslow/lightslow would still offer more counterplay than his previous moderate-to-heavy-slow-constantly)

With the new (imho inappropriate-for-this-champ) passive, will his damage types still come out a nice balanced 50%/50% mix? That's one thing that most people forget about the 'bruiser' group as a whole, and most people stack one damage over the other anyway, but what they generally lack in "IE+LW" or "Cap n' Staff" they make up in available opportunity and base damages to deal non-insignificant quantities of either damage type. Even Lee Sin often maxes E first, and countless people gloss over the significance of this as he rushes a Brutalizer for dem Qs+AAs.

FaerKhan3 votes

[deleted]

NinjaFifer1 votes

That's kind of the point. If you are not on the pbe, then you should not be discussing am update that is ONLY on the pbe.

FaerKhan1 votes

[deleted]

NinjaFifer1 votes

For one, I'm not a part of the pbe. I don't feel I play often enough to provide quality feedback. For two, from the tone of your posts, it sounds like you're just angry, but not genuinely miffed that you're not on the pbe. Just like any beta environment, those who truly want to be a part of the growth of a game can find a way in. Those who truly are motivated, are the ones already on the pbe. Since you're not, that tells me that you're just stomping your feet at the gates, whining that you can't get in. You're angry, not because you actually want to be in the pbe, but only because it's something you can't have.

Aside from finding your comment completely inane, I also find your premise unfounded. It's not a problem of not enough or not the right people on the pbe, it's Riot not responding or reading the problems. That's nothing we can do anything about, unfortunately. It would also exasperated the problem if people like you were on the pbe. You think that Riot has problems addressing problems? Imagine how much worse would it be with millions others spouting out all their opinions, drowning out the quality comments.

FaerKhan1 votes

[deleted]

NinjaFifer1 votes

Do you really think that a Riot employee would be allowed to insult you AND Riot in the same post? Bad for business. I'm just a guy who found a comment that carried no understanding of how the PBE functions, and decided to make sure you know that you are wrong.

Sun Tzu X23 votes

Skarner still can't get the enemy reliably.... E slow wears off by the time the ramp up of W gets him there.

PhoenixSlayer132 votes

Texture update for Skarner? Huh, cool. Nice add-on to the fixes.

Timjin2 votes

Scruffy: I am PUMPED

exec32 votes

Any chance Skarner's skins got some unique VFX with the art updates?

How Do You Meta2 votes

Wait so they basically gave Skarner Braum's passive except with one less hit and it only uses spells to proctor, ok then. Also can you please hurry up with the Tribune? Its hard enough trying to be magically given a competent team, its harder when one out of five games results in refusing to get a gank because some jungler got upset, some level 5 soraka shouts "SILVER FOREVER!" in Swedish and afks, or people start intentionally feeding after a surrender vote is denied. I dont care if Urgot got a visual downgrade so that I see more of him on the battlefield as an excuse to see his horrific new "haircut", I want less people tanking games.

Also on the side note, congratulations on the visual update to Karthus, I see more of him now and I have yet to see him win one game, but he does look like a giant floating blow up godzilla so that works too.

How Do You Meta2 votes

Also, RITO START UPPING YOUR SERVER QUALITY, I AM TIRED OF THE ENDLESS LAG AND THE CONSTANT DROP HACKS, IS IT THAT EASY NOW TO JUST DROP HACK A GAME BECAUSE I GET IT ABOUT 1/50 GAMES NOW, EVEN THE BRAND MIRROR MODE GAME GOT DROP HACKED.

Pr1ma12 votes

Where is the Eve VU? she hasnt even been given a new skin in forever

Vortex IV1 votes

The "dont walk here" circles on Karthus' Q and E were unneccessary, kills my excitement for the champion update almost completely.

Thales5 votes

It shouldn't. His E was already pretty unambiguous, and the changes to Q are very good. When I was first learning to play Karthus, I pretty much had to learn his Q AOE by feel. If there had actually been a circular indicator on it, proper Q placement would have been much easier to learn. How many people didn't feel like sticking with it and so gave up on Karth?

If you're worried about it making them too easy for his opponents to dodge, that's not a good concern. Power stemming from lack of clarity is not a good source of power. If that strength of Karthus goes away, Riot will probably give him more appreciable power, as they say in the last line of the section on him in this very thread. Besides, you shouldn't have been relying on lack of clarity to land your offensive Qs. You hit your foe when they can't safely dodge.

Fusionzz1 votes

Will karthus be getting any new particle effects? :3

Fishing Boat6 votes

Boy, are you in for a treat, buddy.

lightdragoon881 votes

The stun passive on Skarner is way to low.

0.5 and 1 second late game is nothing. It doesn't even feel like they don't stop at all in PBE matches.

Making it 1-2 seconds needs to happen. That or lower the "targets will not receive Crystal Poison for 6 seconds" down to like...3 seconds.

How Do You Meta2 votes

No, if Morgana's ultimate has a 1.5 second stun, then I will be pissed off if Skarner gets a 2 second stun, and giving the passive a 3 second cool down, wonderful idea, now he can permastun anyone he wants with any cdr.

Reepca2 votes

I don't even. First, you're assuming that a passive cooldown can be lowered by CDR (I cannot think of any champions where this is the case), and second the person you're replying to suggested 1-2 second stun (which I agree should not happen) OR lower the passive cooldown. Not both.

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