Possible bug? XZ immune to damage from post-summon Tibbers while Annie outside circle

RabbitQueenRemi·Oct 25, 2017·1 votes·533 views

XZ immune to damage from Tibbers persistent AOE while Annie outside ult circle--intended or no?

Reposted from Help & Support at Broporo's suggestion to get clarification.

Is it intended that Xin Zhao be immune to damage from Tibbers' persistent AOE damage and autoattacks while Annie is outside the circle of his ult? It's one thing for him to be immune to the initial Tibbers summon damage if Annie is outside the circle when she summons him (where Annie could definitely be argued to be the "source" of the damage), but once Tibbers is summoned, aside from tower aggro considerations, Tibbers could in some ways be considered the "source" of his own AOE damage and autoattacks.

Is this intended, an oversight, or a result of somehow using the tower aggro/death recap system (which is presumably there so an Annie can't towerdive solo without taking aggro on herself) to calculate where a damage "source" is?

EDIT/UPDATE 2017/10/30: It seems like if Annie dies while inside the circle, Tibbers can continue to damage Xin even if he moves so her corpse is no longer inside the circle. If Annie dies while outside the circle, Tibbers continues to NOT do damage, even if he moves so her corpse is inside the circle. Definitely not consistent with expectations.

9 Comments

ModDaenrysTargaryenOct 25, 20171 votes

it is intended, because you as a champion have to be inside the circle to do damage.

RabbitQueenRemiOct 27, 20171 votes

But the question is, who counts as the source for Tibbers's persistent AOE damage and his autoattacks? Yes, the game ultimately attributes all damage from Tibbers to Annie for the sake of tabulating total damage dealt, but in practice in this instance, Annie is absent. She's not actively engaging. It's just Tibbers. And what's more, what happens if Annie dies and Tibbers goes on his rampage? Does XZ just get to ignore Tibbers regardless of Annie's corpse's location, since she's not really "on the map," or does Tibbers then get to count as an extension of Annie and, since there is no other "aspect" of Annie on the map, he gets to do damage? I don't really have anyone to test this out with, but I think it deserves a look.

ModDaenrysTargaryenOct 27, 20171 votes

you can test it out with me i have both champs

xxxDogmanxxxOct 30, 20171 votes

Yes. Annie is a Champion. Tibbers is not a Champion. Tibbers is a spell, a pet. Tibbers doesn't get a free pass just because he looks cute. Xin Zhao-senpai gets to ignore Tibbers just like he ignores other spells.

RabbitQueenRemiOct 30, 20171 votes

The ability states "For the next 3 seconds, Xin Zhao negates all damage received from enemies more than 450-units away from him," so as written, it applies to all enemies--including, say, minions--as well as champions (because enemy minions are still enemies). I'd be interested to test this with, say, a Baron-empowered cannon minion (which will definitely attack from more than 450 units away), but I'd need at least two other people to test that.

xxxDogmanxxxOct 31, 20171 votes

Doesn't matter, Tibbers is not a minion, he is a SPELL/PET from Annie. His damage is just "Annie's damage in bear form". If Annie was in the circle, Tibbers gets to do his damage just fine, but since Annie wasn't in the circle, Annie's damage in bear form still doesn't get to apply.

Also, Xin's ult already DOESN'T negate damage from minions, tower, and monsters at all. Whether they are within 450 units of Xin Zhao or not. Do you WANT him to negate that damage too when they're outside his circle?

TheLastShadow45Oct 25, 20171 votes

That's how it works.

RabbitQueenRemiOct 30, 20171 votes

I mean, yes, that's how it works. The questions I have are "Is it intended to work that way?" and "Is it healthy that it works that way?"

One of my big annoyances with how it currently works is, I tend to grab Rylai's for the persistent slow after summoning Tibbers to make follow-up damage easier to land (I play Annie as a support, so I don't have access to the same level of gold a mid-lane Annie would have), and because Xin Zhao becomes immune to the damage from Tibbers when Annie isn't in the circle, there's no damage to proc the Rylai's slow, so I can't use Tibbers to help me or my allies escape from Xin if their only escape "move" is just running away, and if I enter the circle so Tibbers does damage, Xin just kills me, then likely immediately turns on my allies and kills them.

AidanWROct 31, 20171 votes

Yes this is intended. Champions with pets shouldn't get special privileges over other champs. Zed's ult doesn't deal damage when he leaves the circle, but it's a mark that detonates after a while. Karthus's ult, which was shown to be blocked in the champion spotlight, is blocked even though it's not a conventional point and click or skillshot ability.