Boards›Maps & Modes

Twisted Treeline and the Tragedy that is Stealth

WhyNotDroidberg·7/28/2015, 5:49:02 AM·2 votes·940 views

Am I the only one that feels like stealth champs have been neutered heavily by the surplus of vision-granting items? Let's first look at the ways to overcome stealth -The Hextech Sweeper Trinket. It's free. It has a 60 second cooldown according to mobafire (but that might be off, feels a bit longer in-game). And it grants a rather large area-covering mist that last for 5 seconds. Enemies and traps who enter the mist receive a 3 second debuff that reveals them and negates stealth. -Twin Shadows. 2400 gold. 80 AP. 10% CDR. +6% MS. Not a great item, but its active works wonders on a small map, and its passive makes Teemo's shrooms useless. As much as I hate the little furry bastard like everyone else, this item, combined with the Sweeper trinket, is a slap in the face to Teemo players. -Lightbringer. 2280 gold. 30 AD. 30% crit chance. The passive bleed isn't anything special, more of an added perk. However it has an identical active to the Sweeper trinket. This is kind of a lame overlap and seems like lazy game design to me, but we are talking about Twisted Treeline, so let's move on... Lastly... -Oracle's Extract. 250 gold. Grants stealth detection for 5 whole minutes or until death. This is the nail in the coffin. It's cheap. It's effective, especially with all the tanky champs being played right now. And 5 minutes is a huge chunk of time on Twisted Treeline. I don't see why this item is too powerful for Summoner's Rift, but fine on TT.

IMO, Oracle's Extract should be removed, and/or the Sweeper Trinket should be a bush-checking tool that doesn't reveal stealth. As it stands now, any aware player can destroy a Shaco, Talon, or Teemo with one press of their '4' key, all without spending any gold.

PS - I shameless copy pasta'd this from my reddit post. I know Riot doesn't give a shit about their older maps, but I'd honestly like to get people's opinions on this. Would stealth champs be too powerful if not for this surplus in vision-granting items? Or did Riot just go overboard? What would you do to change this?

Good luck out there, fellow 3v3ers. From your friendly neighborhood AP Shaco jungler

6 Comments

Minarde7/28/2015, 8:20:44 AM2 votes

-The Sweeper trinket originally started at 60s cooldown and is now at 90s cooldown. MWAB admitted it was purposely introduced in an OP state in order to get people used to it. I think I recall hearing debate about further nerfing it to 120s. -Lightbringer isn't available on TT anymore. It was removed the same patch that the trinket was introduced and Lord Van Damm's Pillager got nerfed. -Twin Shadows and Oracle's Extract haven't really been changed in a while. Oracle's was originally a weaker version of SR's Oracle's Elixir, which only expired on death. Elixir was removed in the SR's vision rework, but Extract stuck around.

IMO, Oracle's Extract should be removed, and/or the Sweeper Trinket should be a bush-checking tool that doesn't reveal stealth. As it stands now, any aware player can destroy a Shaco, Talon, or Teemo with one press of their '4' key, all without spending any gold.

This would be a massive buff to stealth and trap champions. Twin Shadows would be the only solution to traps, and only mages can really use the stats. The active wouldn't even help against stealth unless you activated it before they stealthed.

FDru7/28/2015, 7:42:05 AM1 votes

It's the same way in Dominion, and I 'm not sure if TT has the same issue but in Crystal Scar full builds are very common, and then you see full teams running around with Oracles just because that's all there is to spend money on. The best part is when I brought this up the forum community seemed to agree that this was totally fair and stealth champs deserved to have completely useless abilities just because the game lasted for 20 minutes or whatever. lol this game

Kholdstare137/28/2015, 1:36:04 PM1 votes

item 3185 was supposed to be removed from Treeline along with item 3159 and item 3187 (item). Was it somehow not?

What the fuck Rito. You gutted item 3104 by turning it into a shitty item 3185 knockoff despite both being available in Dominion (so we're stuck with TWO crappy bleed passives), and didn't even do the swap on the mode you gutted it FOR (while ignoring Dominion again)?

(disregard if OP lied)

The Whamboozler7/28/2015, 1:59:30 PM1 votes

I'm fine with stealth-thwarting items... but make them BUY them at least. Every champ shouldn't get a free "Screw Shaco " button just for logging in. It's literally the ONLY trinket in TT! It's just kinda proof that they don't really care about the balance in 3v3. Randomly a trinket comes out that invalidates many champions and they're all "meh, it's 3v3... who cares?".

SKOBODO7/28/2015, 3:22:26 PM1 votes

Sweeper has a 90 second cooldown. Either try to bait it out or have them use it and gank them while it's down. Not to mention that they might want to use it to actually scout.

Lightbringer is not on TT.

Oracle's Elixir is lost on death. Kill the target with the Oracle's or avoid them. The main reason Oracle's was strong on SR was because it countered wards, TT doesn't have wards. People (mainly supports and junglers) bought Oracle's even if the enemy team had 0 stealth champions, just so they could clear wards.

As for Twin Shadows, I don't think it's OP at all. I'm totally fine with invisible traps having a counter-item, although you can still place mushrooms or Shaco boxes at the edge of the brush.

Stealth mechanics tend to be somewhat binary. The enemy champion goes into stealth and you often can't do much about it. Champions like Akali, Kha'Zix, Talon, Wukong, Teemo, Shaco and LeBlanc tend to be very frustrating to play against partly due to their stealth mechanics. I'm a bit more okay with Evelynn, Rengar, and Twitch, since they usually won't be able to use their stealth for escaping or surviving longer (neither can Teemo, but his mushrooms are annoying).