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In-universe Power Levels - How powerful is your favorite champ?

Wontonphooey··29 votes·6,766 views

After reading Rioters mention how Malphite is MOUNTAIN-SIZED in-universe, it made me wonder just how many champions are more or less dangerous than their ingame appearance and abilities would suggest. After going through short stories, looking through old league judgments and making a few speculations, I've come up with a tiered list of champions based on "power level".

Tier S Wielders of vast power on a cosmic scale, difficult for mortals to understand or quantify, nevermind defeat. The fate of whole worlds rests in the hands of beings like these. Bard

Tier A Immense, timeless power, comparable to catastrophic natural disasters or mythological entities. Capable of changing the face of continents or altering the course of history. Includes creatures not subject to the laws of physics and that most likely cannot be killed as we know it. Aatrox , Anivia , Kindred , TahmKench , Zilean

Tier B Weapon-of-Mass-Destruction powers, capable of crushing armies with minimal effort and potentially leveling whole cities. May or may not be susceptible to conventional forms of attack. Brand , Chogath ,Karthus , Lissandra , Malphite , Malzahar , Mordekaiser , Sion , Syndra

Tier C Capable of widescale property damage, paragon combat ability, and/or profound powers to affect their surroundings. With considerable effort, could potentially defend him or herself against an army. Amumu , Azir , Fiddlesticks , Gnar , Hecarim , Heimerdinger , Illaoi , JarvanIV , Jax , Kalista , Kayle , Lux , Maokai , Morgana , Nami , Nasus , Nautilus , Olaf , Pantheon , RekSai , Renekton , Rumble , Ryze , Sejuani , Shyvana , Soraka , Swain , Trundle , Tryndamere , Veigar , Velkoz , Viktor , Volibear , Xerath , Yorick , Ziggs , Zyra

Tier D Individuals capable of superhuman feats, with the ability to generate supernatural effects, defeat dozens of skilled combatants, and/or destroy buildings. Everyone else not listed

Tier F Individuals that could defeat one or more skilled combatants given adequate circumstances. Competent, but strictly ordinary. Caitlyn , Draven , MissFortune , Quinn , Twitch

Please comment or make suggestions on how you think they line up.

202 Comments

Ionian11 votes

Bard Bard Bard Bard Bard Bard Bard Bard Bard Bard Bard Bard Bard Bard Bard Bard Bard Bard Bard Bard Bard Bard Bard Bard Bard Bard Bard Bard Bard Bard

Lord Boltrix10 votes

It's funny how the power scale suggests him to be this almighty being but in-game his kit consists of health packs, a hardlight-based stun, portal generation, and toys and pets, with his ultimate being all that truly suggests his nature as being someone who ends conflict.

Wontonphooey16 votes

I think if Bard had a more destructive personality, there wouldn't be much of a Runeterra left ;)

Fasmodey2 votes

{quoted}

I think if Bard had a more destructive personality, there wouldn't be much of a Runeterra left ;)

Xerath can't balance the universe as Bard does, Bard can't deal damage as Xerath does, because he is all about caretaking. Bard is like a robot that is programmed for caretaking, he doesn't have overwhelming destructive power as you think. You can even see that in his gameplay kit. Dat damage sucks.

Wontonphooey4 votes

League of Legends is supposed to be a balanced competitive game. The way champs interact ingame is simply not representative of their abilities in the narrative of the lore and the stories Riot tells.

In-game, there are plenty of ways for a Miss Fortune to kill Aatrox, but in-universe no one can reasonably expect a pirate with a pair of pistols to take down a timeless demonic personification of war and victory at any cost. Aatrox wouldn't have survived and influenced the world for the millennia it's implied he has, if something as plain as that could take him out. But MF would hardly ever be worth picking if that were indicative of her potential to make plays and win games in Ranked.

Bard doesn't deal as much damage as Xerath ingame, but I don't think damage numbers are helpful to this kind of discussion. Consider the scope of their abilities. Xerath's spells include an energy blast, an energy blast, an energy blast, and three... energy blasts. Bard has an energy blast himself, but he can also create portals that twist space, interact with spirits no one else can see or manipulate, and lock people and objects out of this dimension.

You're right, Bard is a caretaker, and it's for the good of all that he is. What if he sent his enemies on a Magical Journey into the sun? What if he puts you in stasis... and doesn't let you out? Meanwhile, Xerath is a power-hungry sorcerer who clearly has no problem using magical force to get what he wants, so what's stopping him from ruling Valoran? He's the type that would become a god if given the chance, but there are things in his way that he simply isn't powerful enough to obliterate, yet.

Naturally, we don't have very much to go on. I think this is a fun and interesting aspect of the League universe to explore and discuss, but I'd hardly consider my guesses conclusive. For all I know, Bard could be operating under strict limits that we're not aware of, and much weaker than I placed him. Likewise, maybe Xerath has deeper motivations than I give him credit for, and it's not that he can't dominate the world, but just doesn't want to right now. Every cinematic, short story, comic and quote Riot releases are all new evidence to look at and weigh in, which is one of the reasons us lore fans are so rabid about new content! But of all those things, I don't think how much damage they do on Summoner's Rift is very compelling.

Narasimha11 votes

This list is all sorts of wonky.

ALL of the Ascended would be Tier B, if not Tier A. Kindred is easily S Tier, she IS Death. Malz is Tier C, he's got fancy powers, but he's nothing special.

Actually, fuck it, I'm remaking your list. You're welcome

Tier S

Bard Kindred Xerath

Tier A

Syndra Azir Renekton Nasus Mordekaiser Chogath Lissandra

Tier B

Aatrox Anivia Brand Hecarim Illaoi Kassadin Karthus Malzahar Nocturne Velkoz Zilean Braum TahmKench Veigar Kayle Morgana

Tier C

Pretty much everyone else. I got lazy, so sue me.

Tier D Draven

Because we all know what the D REALLY stands for.

Battalion1 votes

You know you can't kill Nocturne right? He's literally a being of the plane of dreams, he's a thought not a physical being, but a nightmare that was bound to a nexus shard and forced to fight on the Fields of Justice by the League of Legends as a punishment. I would put him on an S ranking .

I'd put Braum down into Tier C as well as Ekko

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Nocturne/Background

Narasimha1 votes

Do note that Nocturne's lore is heavily tied to the old lore, and is thus game for drastic changes. And even so, the very fact that he WAS bound means he's not that powerful. Unlike Xerath, who became essentially sentient magic, Nocturne hasn't even been hinted to have the potential of breaking free. For all intents and purposes, he became pretty solidly locked. For that to happen so easily, really means Nocturne isn't quite at the God levels of S tier power.

As for Braum, I'd say B tier works well for him. From what we know, he's pretty distinct from most other humans. He's semi immortal, and has enough pure physical power to punch throw a mountain. He's definitely a tier above the norm.

I do agree with Ekko though, at his base, he's just a normal kid with fancy equipment, which is why I didn't put him into B or higher.

insaiyanbacca1 votes

didnt summoner's/mages or whatever trap xerath in that same lore? if we're using that to look at nocturne's power you might also want to take notice that it appears with enough magicians/summoners they can trap powerful beings.

Narasimha1 votes

Not contemporary summoners, we're talking about mages from (in that version) the time of the Rune Wars, where magic and power were at much higher levels.

Princess Emma10 votes

Tier S Can cause tremors that rip through space and time and has spikes that can melt atoms and molecules and break down black holes as well as snuff out stars.

Saying ''Okay'' rocks the very core of the Universe and can destroy whole dimensions.

Can curl into a ball defensively that has the power to absorb and withstand nuclear missles, supernovas, infinite amounts of magical energy and even the gargantuan power of the big bang. Rammus

Tier A Has no counters Yorick

Tier B Just sexy Urgot Draven

Tier i(rrelevant) Everyone else

Lord Boltrix4 votes

By that logic, Fizz would be S+ on the basis of being able to avoid literally anything.

A Liberal10 votes

Kindred should really be moved up on the list. While they have no concern over the wellbeing or path of Runeterra, they are very much so "Wielders of vast power on a cosmic scale, difficult for mortals to understand or quantify, nevermind defeat."

Duke Anax3 votes

They should be equal or above Bard. After all they are Death itself.

Quort6 votes

I believe Bard beats death. Death is only consequential to life (and many, like Karthus, have cheated death). Bard's actions are consequential to all of creation! :O

Narasimha1 votes

Nah, they said in the Q&A, that while even Bard will eventually die, To memory, the exact quote was "ALL things meet Kindred eventually. No exceptions, not even for themselves."

Abyssphere2 votes

{quoted}

Nah, they said in the Q&A, that while even Bard will eventually die, To memory, the exact quote was "ALL things meet Kindred eventually. No exceptions, not even for themselves."

Well, which champion is stronger depends on more than "Can they fight this other one?". Pretty sure Soraka couldn't 1v1 Draven but she's clearly more powerful, for example.

Bard will eventually die to Kindred, but that doesn't mean Kindred is more powerful. Their power is inescapable, but Bard's impact on the universe may be greater still.

Narasimha1 votes

{quoted}

Well, which champion is stronger depends on more than "Can they fight this other one?". Pretty sure Soraka couldn't 1v1 Draven but she's clearly more powerful, for example.

Bard will eventually die to Kindred, but that doesn't mean Kindred is more powerful. Their power is inescapable, but Bard's impact on the universe may be greater still.

I don't think ANYTHING has a greater impact than Death :P

Abyssphere3 votes

{quoted}

I don't think ANYTHING has a greater impact than Death :P

There's more to the universe than the things that live in it, though. There's nothing more impactful to us than death, but Bard deals with the universe as a whole and most of the stuff in the universe is not and has never been alive.

Praetor Don9 votes

Tier Draaaaaaaven: Draven

Is Draven.

Catastrop9 votes

I'm not sure Xerath should be so low. I think he should either be, in Tier A or B. Veigar as well, should definitely be in Tier B. I say this because, it is confirmed that he can actually bend space. In the "The Great Hunt" event, it says he uses this mastery to catch game. Kindred, I would think, is a qualifier for Tier S considering they literally embody death.

Gentzer2 votes

I don't get why Nasus is so low, I believe he is described as having some sort of power over time and death, and it seems he's immortal.

Ebonmaw Dragon6 votes

Sion and Syndra are more powerfull than Veigar, Illaoi, Xerath etc?

I mean, sure that Syndra has potential, but Xerath has more power than her.... Illaoi has the help of a god that can destroy and repel undead creatures, Veigar can corrupt cosmic energies and has more knowledge and control of magic than Syndra.

And Zilean has more power than all of them? ... he cant be killed, but that is all, he cant do many things without help, he cant time travel or anything like that.

Reksai is at least at the same level of power of Chogath, and Renekton fought against her... both of them should be higher. And Nasus has the same or more power than Renek.

Mordekaiser can control undead armies, but Azir has the power of creating an army in seconds with ease... an army of things without souls that cant be controled by the Shadow Isles, if all the creatures of the Shadow Isles tried to conquer Shurima, Azir would defeat them alone since he cant die by conventional ways.

Brand was defeated by Lux and Garen (and a summoner as well)

A mountain can be powerfull, but Braun can literally punch though mountains and tons of champions can in fact, blow up mountains.

Aatrox has never fought against an actual powerfull enemy, he just fights against random human armies... as you said, there are tons of champs that can do the same. Sure he has influence in the history of Valoran, but that is all.

Stars Shaper1 votes

The Emperors Bash Mordekaiser vs Azir sounds really interesting Lorewise. (ingame is a oneway victory for Azir xD)

Ofcourse since Azir soldiers are "memroies" of the Shurima guards they suffer not from the undead clichè of: "our deads become their paws" but still the army Mordekaiser uses is not just zombies and anyway they can be ressed unlimited times unless they pass away as Illaoi shows. Plus Mordekaiser cana ctively control the Black Mist tearing the souls of anything living in the surroundings, even Voidlings maybe. On a long siege I do believe that Azir will have some heavy strain on his resources. Even while alive it took more than one army to defeat Mordekaiser, It would be probably an endless fight.

Ebonmaw Dragon5 votes

[{quoted}](name=Stars Shaper,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=eERPnnJG,comment-id=000d0000,timestamp=2015-12-07T15:13:24.960+0000)

The Emperors Bash Mordekaiser vs Azir sounds really interesting Lorewise. (ingame is a oneway victory for Azir xD)

Ofcourse since Azir soldiers are "memroies" of the Shurima guards they suffer not from the undead clichè of: "our deads become their paws" but still the army Mordekaiser uses is not just zombies and anyway they can be ressed unlimited times unless they pass away as Illaoi shows. Plus Mordekaiser cana ctively control the Black Mist tearing the souls of anything living in the surroundings, even Voidlings maybe. On a long siege I do believe that Azir will have some heavy strain on his resources. Even while alive it took more than one army to defeat Mordekaiser, It would be probably an endless fight.

Yeah, it would be endless probably

But hey! They could become friends afterwards and Gravelord Azir would be canon(?)

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/p4ZmPgfVrGo/maxresdefault.jpg

Stars Shaper2 votes

Well in that case Morde has won xD

Quort4 votes

Malphite isn't just a mountain though... He's the embodiment of a force of nature. He's not your average rock, you know! :P

Zilean is powerful enough to be widely feared and well respected by other Champions, most notably VelKoz. His temporal knowledge is unmatched and he is essentially immortal.

Not much is really known about the Darkin. Aatrox could be far more powerful than we realize (of course we can only go by what we know for now).

I agree Sion isn't too impressive to warrant such a high ranking.

GreenLore6 votes

I disagree with your tiers in the first place so its hard to say. I mean Bard is certainly not all-powerful. He is wise and knows what he has to do at a given time,but his methods are limited.

Zilean doesn't seem that powerful either.His magic has its limits and there is nothing saying that he can't be killed.

Meanwhile Xerath ended a whole nation and Nasus&Renekton couldn't kill him.

Duke Anax9 votes

Xerath didn't destroy Shurima by his own power though, he merely saboataged a powerfull artifact.

Now old Lore Xerath was somnething else entirely he became so powerfull, he didn't need the artifact to ascend.

Quort2 votes

What do you mean by Bard's methods are limited? Bard has powers that can't adequately be explained, quantified, or understood. His lore states that he regularly deals with matters beyond the comprehension and imagination of mortal beings. That alone makes him more powerful than just about every other Champion. Even immortals have not displayed power anywhere near capable of Bard's purpose.

Fasmodey2 votes

{quoted}

What do you mean by Bard's methods are limited? Bard has powers that can't adequately be explained, quantified, or understood. His lore states that he regularly deals with matters beyond the comprehension and imagination of mortal beings. That alone makes him more powerful than just about every other Champion. Even immortals have not displayed power anywhere near capable of Bard's purpose.

Being complex =/= Powerful. He can't be understood, but it's confirmed he can die by strong spells. Xerath can kill him easily if he shots him. But we know Xerath is much harder to kill if there is a way to kill. 2 Ascendeds couldn't do it.

Xerath probably has the most overwhelming power in LoL, his destructive powers are insane. He only fought against his kind with in his sealed from and still couldn't get defeated. Imagine him in free from.

And I should say, Xerath seems himself as omniscience. He sees the force that hold universe together. So it means he understands the universe and cosmic energy, he has more chance to kill Bard than anyone.

Quort1 votes

Considering Bard hasn't made any effort to intervene or deal with Xerath, I believe that Bard doesn't consider Xerath to be all that destructive or threatening.

Bard can be ended by a being of equal or greater power and quite frankly, I don't think there is any Champion right now with the power to do that.

Where are you getting your information? I cant find any canon reports that Xerath "sees the forces that hold universe together," nor does that automatically translate to the the power required to face Bard.

Fasmodey1 votes

{quoted}

Considering Bard hasn't made any effort to intervene or deal with Xerath, I believe that Bard doesn't consider Xerath to be all that destructive or threatening.

Bard can be ended by a being of equal or greater power and quite frankly, I don't think there is any Champion right now with the power to do that.

Where are you getting your information? I cant find any canon reports that Xerath "sees the forces that hold universe together," nor does that automatically translate to the the power required to face Bard.

He says it in one of his quotes.

Bard didn't struggle for a lot events, like Shadow Isles, Fall of Shurima. It doesn't mean they were not important to prevent. It may be means his choices were best options to go, may be preveting those events would cause worse problems. Also as I remember from a rioter, he can't change every event, some events are the key, can't be changed, revolved or stopped. He has his limits.

Quort1 votes

I see the quote now, but I still don't see how it allows him to defeat Bard. You're also assuming a lot from a single quote.

As far as we know, Bard only intervenes in events that threaten the entirety of the universe. Xerath's quibbling with Azir is apparently not worth his time. Events like the Shadow Isles and the Fall of Shurima aren't cosmically important. People died. People die all the time. Bard outlasts every single one of them.

Fasmodey1 votes

{quoted}

I see the quote now, but I still don't see how it allows him to defeat Bard. You're also assuming a lot from a single quote.

As far as we know, Bard only intervenes in events that threaten the entirety of the universe. Xerath's quibbling with Azir is apparently not worth his time. Events like the Shadow Isles and the Fall of Shurima aren't cosmically important. People died. People die all the time. Bard outlasts every single one of them.

It's what you do, assuming too much thing from a caretaker. It's already confirmed he is not that strong. He is not the king of celestial beings. I assume he can also fall like Soraka.

Quort1 votes

Well, Bard can pass through realms of existence at will whcih is more than Xerath is able to do.

It has not been confirmed that Bard is weak. The full extent of his powers are unknown.

Bard is not like Soraka at all. Bard is completely autonomous. "He is a magical entity that has created a corporeal form in order to interact with the physical world."

Fasmodey1 votes

{quoted}

Well, Bard can pass through realms of existence at will whcih is more than Xerath is able to do.

It has not been confirmed that Bard is weak. The full extent of his powers are unknown.

Bard is not like Soraka at all. Bard is completely autonomous. "He is a magical entity that has created a corporeal form in order to interact with the physical world."

A ghost can walk through walls but a lich is far superior than a ghost. Being good at travelling doesn't make you more powerful. Also, how can you know Xerath can't do that? May be it's something Xerath can do too but he needs to be unsealed? We're only talking about speculations on here, only think that is confirmed is Bard can be killed.

Quort1 votes

Ok, Bard's not just good at traveling. He can split layers of reality and tap directly into the magical friction that all worlds emit.

Xerath hasn't displayed abilities anywhere near that level and he was sealed by other Ascended beings. Xerath is known to shoot energy beams and that's about it.

Bard is a magical being that created a physical form for itself to allow it to interact with the universe.

Xerath is a guy who stabbed someone in the back in order to ascend.

Bard has a much more impressive and vast effect on things. Bard has existed far longer than Xerath and will continue to exist for eternity.

Bard can only be "killed" by a force of equal or greater power. In the unfathomable amount of time Bard has existed, he has never encountered something of that caliber. It is immensely unlikely something like Xerath could deal with him.

Fasmodey1 votes

{quoted}

Ok, Bard's not just good at traveling. He can split layers of reality and tap directly into the magical friction that all worlds emit.

Xerath hasn't displayed abilities anywhere near that level and he was sealed by other Ascended beings. Xerath is known to shoot energy beams and that's about it.

Bard is a magical being that created a physical form for itself to allow it to interact with the universe.

Xerath is a guy who stabbed someone in the back in order to ascend.

Bard has a much more impressive and vast effect on things. Bard has existed far longer than Xerath and will continue to exist for eternity.

Bard can only be "killed" by a force of equal or greater power. In the unfathomable amount of time Bard has existed, he has never encountered something of that caliber. It is immensely unlikely something like Xerath could deal with him.

Bard is such a pussy, if there had been a more powerful entity than him, he probably escaped. He already doesn't fight with anyone, because he is not a fighter type champion. If you think he has fighting skills and destructive powers, you can believe on Xerath's travelling on space and time powers too, ah?

'' Xerath is a guy who stabbed someone in the back in order to ascend. ''

Entire Shurima couldn't get what Xerath was doing, a basic servant stole the ascension and become one of the most powerful entities in the Runeterra. He is sure brilliant more than you think. He changed the ascension, made it more powerful. Do you really think it's only about shoot energy beams? It's only what you saw, Syndra is about spheres in game but raised a fortress to sky at will. Azir is only about sand soldiers in game but he ressurected Shurima from a wasteland at will.

Xerath has more power than only energy beams and you're underestimating him.

Being older doesn't make you stronger. A lot yordles are probably older than Karthus but Karthus would destroy all of them in a combat.

Robertsmash1 votes

I also believe Xerath is by far one of the most powerful beings in League lore- if he weren't confined, he could destroy the world. But Bard can hop across dimensions and move through time at will, and his job description is basically a mixture of "make sure everybody doesn't kill themselves" and "watch over artifacts of power so tremendous that their use endangers reality".

I think it comes down to how you define power- Xerath probably has more raw, destructive force (Bard, given only his own self, probably couldn't blow up much), but Bard has different kinds of abilities (and is a different kind of entity), just one of which includes going to the time when Xerath was a baby and killing him (if Xerath were deemed enough of a threat to the universe).

So pretty much: Biggest explosion and killing power? Xerath. Time travel, immortality, dimension hopping, stasis, and probably all other kinds of nonsense that come with being the manifestation of a cosmological force? Bard.

They're different, although Xerath probably couldn't kill Bard, and Bard doesn't want to kill Xerath (because if he did, then Xerath wouldn't have lived for very long after birth, and yet here he is).

Fasmodey1 votes

{quoted}

I also believe Xerath is by far one of the most powerful beings in League lore- if he weren't confined, he could destroy the world. But Bard can hop across dimensions and move through time at will, and his job description is basically a mixture of "make sure everybody doesn't kill themselves" and "watch over artifacts of power so tremendous that their use endangers reality".

I think it comes down to how you define power- Xerath probably has more raw, destructive force (Bard, given only his own self, probably couldn't blow up much), but Bard has different kinds of abilities (and is a different kind of entity), just one of which includes going to the time when Xerath was a baby and killing him (if Xerath were deemed enough of a threat to the universe).

So pretty much: Biggest explosion and killing power? Xerath. Time travel, immortality, dimension hopping, stasis, and probably all other kinds of nonsense that come with being the manifestation of a cosmological force? Bard.

They're different, although Xerath probably couldn't kill Bard, and Bard doesn't want to kill Xerath (because if he did, then Xerath wouldn't have lived for very long after birth, and yet here he is).

If you ask me, going to past and killing someone in easy way is so retarded. I don't think Bard can do this, because he didn't even know what was going on until the moonstone get activited. A really strong entity probably would sense it without any reason. But with speculating he can change the past, I'm sure there are some key events that even he can't change though. Like Shadow Isles, Shurima's Fall.

Also his powers are related with meeps and artifacts.

I still believe Bard is more powerful than Kindred. But arguable, Xerath is the most powerful champion in combat.

Quort1 votes

Bard doesn't act until the universe is threatened. Until that point he has no reason to act. Saying he was unaware of the artifact until its use is naive.

As long as it was used in a way that was helpful, he had no issue with the stone. When the elderly man used it as a weapon Bard chose to intervene.

Quort1 votes

Being able to communicate with any entity regardless of language or lack thereof is a massive power. No, it's unlikely to help in direct combat, but direct combat isn't the sole basis for determining ones strength.

While there is speculation, no Champion is canonically omnipotent. I do not think any Champions are omniscient either, but Bard would certainly be the most knowledgeable of all known beings for his immense age.

Quort1 votes

Interestingly, Kindred doesn't kill anyone and realistically has no combat powers whatsoever. When they appear before someone, that person has already been killed and they simply lay their soul to rest as I understand it. They are, however, immensely powerful in that they are an ageless entity that is beyond the reach and understanding of mortal beings.

Raid Boss Morde6 votes

I thought that Xerath and Viegar were two of the most powerful beings?

kaltenashes1 votes

cannot be killed as we know it.

Ekko i remember reading he cannot be killed

Duke Anax5 votes

Only if he manages to activate his Z-Drive in time.

kaltenashes1 votes

I've found

Similar to Zed, Ekko doesn't really 'die' in his death animation, as he uses his Zero-Drive to go back in time and respawn at the base. This makes him the second champion that escapes death. http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Ekko/SkinsTrivia

Duke Anax5 votes

Yes, he doesn't die, because he uses hi Zero Drive.

Doesn't mean he can't die, when he fails to use it.

Transgressor6 votes

As the cinematic showcased, and per his lore, he can reverse time, but not become invulnerable.

He's trial-and-error personified, but the errors remain, and you can't reverse time with your device if your head's exploded or your spine broken.

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