In the recently released lore, 'Forest for the Trees' Kindred comes across a young squire with nothing but a sword. I don't know if he was injured or not but Kindred decides to kill him. And Lamb Laughs at what Wolf did.
Like... are they just?: "Hey Lamb, you see that guy over there" "Yes, what about him" "Lets kill him" "Okay"
Seems like they're bad spirits.
LordHippoman13 votesKindred is an everything killer. They're the Runeterran version of the Grim Reaper.
"Accepting Lamb's arrow." is pretty much a fancy way of saying "dying peacefully".
That's why they hate the Shadow Isles so much, the undead are basically saying "lol nah" to Kindred's judgement of when life should end.
SpartenA79919 votesDeath makes no exceptions. Death claims infants, children, young adults, adults, and elders all alike.
Dr Oshawott2 votesDeath makes no exceptions. Death claims infants, children, young adults, adults, and elders all alike.
But they killed someone who wasn't even injured.
IcyPepper2 votesThey could have been lost, doomed from the start. Starvation, sickness, even an unknown curse.
DragonShea1 votesThey could have been lost, doomed from the start. Starvation, sickness, even an unknown curse.
just as bad as getting chumped by the Big bad black wolf.
IcyPepper9 votesI don't think you understand who Kindred is...
Kindred is Death. I'm pretty sure they don't kill willy-nilly. They kill because they're claiming your life because you're already dying when you meet them.
DragonShea3 votesI don't think you understand who Kindred is...
Kindred is Death. I'm pretty sure they don't kill willy-nilly. They kill because they're claiming your life because you're already dying when you meet them.
Uh I do. In a good death The wolf is egaer to kill magha and it seems like he lacks restraint. Anyone that is an Avatar of death should be ENSURING death and not killing those that avoided death (if cowardly so) by natural means such as fleeing or being lucky. The boy in the main lore could have lived if it wasn't for kindred deciding that he should die. Really, guys like morde and Karthus have more a reason to get off'ed.
In short. My problem with Kindred is that they are not really that responsible beings of death that they should be.
IcyPepper11 votesIn a good death The wolf is egaer to kill magha and it seems like he lacks restraint.
Of course he seemed eager, he's the brutal, more animal side of Death. If he lacked restraint, he would just have killed Magha (or however you spell it) right then and there. Consider it a brush with Death, if you will.
The boy in the main lore could have lived if it wasn't for kindred deciding that he should die.
Death... doesn't really care. If it's your time to die, it's your time to die. Period. End of story.
Really, guys like morde and Karthus have more a reason to get off'ed.
Nobody has "more of a reason" to die according to Kindred, they're more of a neutral force of nature than some good/bad guy. Good guys die just as well as bad guys. And, well... Kindred hates the Shadow Isles for a reason. Karthus has basically perverted death. If Kindred could claim him, they would have by now.
My problem with Kindred is that they are not really that responsible beings of death that they should be.
Judgement isn't really up to them. Even if somebody doesn't deserve to die in our eyes, they die when its their time. Kindred doesn't have the same morality we do, they aren't even human. Does a wolf care about the sheep it slays? Will a cat feel regret for playing with a mouse? It's nature, not subject to human law or ideal.
DragonShea2 votesOf course he seemed eager, he's the brutal, more animal side of Death. If he lacked restraint, he would just have killed Magha (or however you spell it) right then and there. Consider it a brush with Death, if you will.
Death... doesn't really care. If it's your time to die, it's your time to die. Period. End of story.
Nobody has "more of a reason" to die according to Kindred, they're more of a neutral force of nature than some good/bad guy. Good guys die just as well as bad guys. And, well... Kindred hates the Shadow Isles for a reason. Karthus has basically perverted death. If Kindred could claim him, they would have by now.
Judgement isn't really up to them. Even if somebody doesn't deserve to die in our eyes, they die when its their time. Kindred doesn't have the same morality we do, they aren't even human. Does a wolf care about the sheep it slays? Will a cat feel regret for playing with a mouse? It's nature, not subject to human law or ideal.
Yeah Death is part of nature. But when a man kills another man, he dies. when a boy drowns in the sea, he dies. when a woman bleeds out in childbirth, she dies. But when someone gets cold feet and baits from a battle he lives. Ops no. Wolf is killing him. if kindred was finishing off those that are certainly dying then I would be cool with them, I.E. if the squire has fleeing but was fatally injured and Kindred saw his fear, then I would not have a problem with him dying because he showed fear in his final moments. Killing a healthy boy that fled from a battle and was healthy is a sick thing to do and puts a dent in the whole being neutral thing unless he would have been killed anyway by someone else.
Ebonmaw Dragon4 votesYeah Death is part of nature. But when a man kills another man, he dies. when a boy drowns in the sea, he dies. when a woman bleeds out in childbirth, she dies. But when someone gets cold feet and baits from a battle he lives. Ops no. Wolf is killing him. if kindred was finishing off those that are certainly dying then I would be cool with them, I.E. if the squire has fleeing but was fatally injured and Kindred saw his fear, then I would not have a problem with him dying because he showed fear in his final moments. Killing a healthy boy that fled from a battle and was healthy is a sick thing to do and puts a dent in the whole being neutral thing unless he would have been killed anyway by someone else.
There is something that you are missing:
The squire saw them, when people see Kindred, it means that the person who saw them will die... Everyone in Runeterra knows the tale, and he knew that. If you see kindred, you have two options: Lamb or Wolf.
He choose Wolf and ran away... Maybe, if he accepted the Lamb, he would died from old age, like the actress from the other tale... but he took Wolf's Way.
DragonShea1 votes[{quoted}](name=Ebonmaw Dragon,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=WMn2k706,comment-id=000200000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-10-10T01:02:20.573+0000)
There is something that you are missing:
The squire saw them, when people see Kindred, it means that the person who saw them will die... Everyone in Runeterra knows the tale, and he knew that. If you see kindred, you have two options: Lamb or Wolf.
He choose Wolf and ran away... Maybe, if he accepted the Lamb, he would died from old age, like the actress from the other tale... but he took Wolf's Way.
What makes It ambiguous is if Fate is backing Kindred or not if they are perfectly attuned to fate. Because Kindred seems to have too much of an hands on approach. Don't get me Wrong. I have appreciated our debate on Kindred. And as for the squire I half forgot that desertion would be disastrous for anyone. If Kindred kills because their fate is sealed and they 100% know it then they no one can judge them. Death pretty much does what it wants and at least Kindred is not a mass murderer. The point that I have been arguing is that Kindred being the embodiment of death seems a bit obsessed with Death itself, perhaps with replace itself with death. Death is a phenomenon and a being and existing beings can be swayed.
Hell one can even say that Kindred dislikes Karthus for stealing her job and declaring himself death itself. However on the flipside of my statement. One can say that Kindred represents the good and natural death. Whereas Karthus is an unnatural deathbringer and turns the living into the undead. A twisted Parody of life and death.
Either way My point is to show light on what may or may not be unsavory aspects of Kindred. They are drawn to massacres and then killing those that either accept death or fight it makes it difficult to know if they are even justified in doing what they doing as Death will always happen. Seeing the two and Knowing that you are death makes you wonder what would happen if they did kill x person that saw them. Kindred or no Kindred.
Decrit1 votesNah he would have died on the spot aniway. Maybe suffering less.
IcyPepper2 votesBut when someone gets cold feet and baits from a battle he lives. Ops no. Wolf is killing him.
Er... I think you're missing some key information here. You know what happens to deserters in ancient times, specifically when there's knight and squires or whatever?
Let me put it this way:
He wasn't going to live long. You get a choice between Lamb (peaceful) or Wolf (brutal). He tried to run, and he failed.
RiotFauxSchizzle9 votesOf course he seemed eager, he's the brutal, more animal side of Death. If he lacked restraint, he would just have killed Magha (or however you spell it) right then and there. Consider it a brush with Death, if you will.
Death... doesn't really care. If it's your time to die, it's your time to die. Period. End of story.
Nobody has "more of a reason" to die according to Kindred, they're more of a neutral force of nature than some good/bad guy. Good guys die just as well as bad guys. And, well... Kindred hates the Shadow Isles for a reason. Karthus has basically perverted death. If Kindred could claim him, they would have by now.
Judgement isn't really up to them. Even if somebody doesn't deserve to die in our eyes, they die when its their time. Kindred doesn't have the same morality we do, they aren't even human. Does a wolf care about the sheep it slays? Will a cat feel regret for playing with a mouse? It's nature, not subject to human law or ideal.
Nailed it, Tombdragon! Well stated.
Photos of Ghosts3 votesStill doesn't make sense for them to actively take an unthreatened life like the on of the squire, who was going to survive by not meeting any enemy on his path. Was that a symbolism for getting shot down by an arrow?
Also do people retain a consciousness in the afterlife in Runeterra? Even only for the first few seconds after dying? And if not, someone whose head would get smashed, or anyone with an instant death with no agony, wouldn't in any way be able to meet the Kindred.
Peridition2 votesUh I do. In a good death The wolf is egaer to kill magha and it seems like he lacks restraint. Anyone that is an Avatar of death should be ENSURING death and not killing those that avoided death (if cowardly so) by natural means such as fleeing or being lucky. The boy in the main lore could have lived if it wasn't for kindred deciding that he should die. Really, guys like morde and Karthus have more a reason to get off'ed.
In short. My problem with Kindred is that they are not really that responsible beings of death that they should be.
We really don't know that. The squire could have died a horrible death from infection after the battle for all we know.
The point is that Kindred are merely the personification of a person's acceptance of death. Do you embrace death as just a part of life? Or do you run from death but succumb regardless to its merciless grip? That is Kindred.
Lets say the squire was doomed to die regardless. His choice was to either stay and die in battle. A clean and quick death, full of honor. Or to run and die from infection or his wounds. A slow a terrible death, filled with fear. Again, Kindred represent the path we take in when we meet our final hour.
Photos of Ghosts3 votesAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAND if they're merely a personification, that might as well be just a myth, they CAN'T have been the ones to actively kill the boy.
RiotFauxSchizzle4 votes[{quoted}](name=Photos of Ghosts,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=WMn2k706,comment-id=00020000000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2015-10-17T20:59:46.669+0000)
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAND if they're merely a personification, that might as well be just a myth, they CAN'T have been the ones to actively kill the boy.
Depends on what you consider real.
Merxamers2 votesenough with the coy games you cad! I refuse to buy a champion who isn't real (even in the context of the game's fictional universe!)
RiotFauxSchizzle3 votesenough with the coy games you cad! I refuse to buy a champion who isn't real (even in the context of the game's fictional universe!)
"Coy" AND "cad"? A little dated. I like the alliteration, though, WP.
Second: Just because something isn't tangible, or belongs in the realm of spirit, does NOT mean it isn't real.
ChimeiTekinaNasu1 votes"Coy" AND "cad"? A little dated. I like the alliteration, though, WP.
lol. So that person is really old then, right
RiotFauxSchizzle2 votes[{quoted}](name=Gin Gomi,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=WMn2k706,comment-id=000200000000000000000000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-10-19T19:24:37.876+0000)
lol. So that person is really old then, right
haha, not what I meant. Probably have a penchant for less-used words, which is highly admirable :)
Crett2 votesI say "pettifogging" on occasion. I love it when people say "that's not even a word"
CupcakeTrap4 votesDepends on what you consider real.
"That's deep. Very deep. You should send that in to the Reader's Digest. They've got a page for people like you."
RiotFauxSchizzle2 votes"That's deep. Very deep. You should send that in to the Reader's Digest. They've got a page for people like you."
Nothing hurts more than a Douglas Adams quote-burn. Yeeouch! :)
CupcakeTrap1 votesNothing hurts more than a Douglas Adams quote-burn. Yeeouch! :)
Classy response. +1
And no, I don't judge you for rolling your eyes and muttering, "what a douchebag" to your monitor before typing out said classy response. ;)
That's my secret in-game, as well. People ask how I avoid raging. The answer is that I actually do rage. I just yell it at my screen before typing something like, "Come on, guys! We can still win this!"
Photos of Ghosts1 votesI mean they still can't, because Runeterra is full of people who escaped battles, because they were not meant to die there, because no killer crossed their way out of the battlefield. Darius wouldn't have had anyone to be mad at in the army else.
The squire can only have died through tangible means.
Valaran Nara1 votesUh I do. In a good death The wolf is egaer to kill magha and it seems like he lacks restraint. Anyone that is an Avatar of death should be ENSURING death and not killing those that avoided death (if cowardly so) by natural means such as fleeing or being lucky. The boy in the main lore could have lived if it wasn't for kindred deciding that he should die. Really, guys like morde and Karthus have more a reason to get off'ed.
In short. My problem with Kindred is that they are not really that responsible beings of death that they should be.
The reason it looks like Kindred murdered the squire is because of this.
During the fight, he had a choice. Go in fighting or run away. He probably ran away because he saw someone coming straight for him, and he tried to flee. Because of this, Wolf started his hunt because the boy doesn't want to die.
When wolf finally snatched him, that was when the squire was caught by his assailant and axed down as well.
Remember, if Lamb and Wolf goes by the same rules of engagement (with the difference being Lamb goes for those who accept and Wolf goes to those who resist), then their methods happen the moment you die.
Lamb's arrow struck one of the warriors the moment an axe cleaved him. Not before. Not after.
Kindred appeared before Magga because she evaded death, and they wanted to see her. By all means, if she chose to flee away when Wolf was--in essense--goading her, he probably would have picked up the kill cause she'd run STRAIGHT BACK TO CAMP. If she ran straight back, she would meat the bandits, and wolf would get a kill. Instead, she stayed and talked to them and rather take Lamb's arrow. Because of this, they parted ways and appeared again in the future, during the end of her life.
DragonShea1 votes[{quoted}](name=Valaran Nara,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=WMn2k706,comment-id=0002000000000000000000000002,timestamp=2015-10-10T14:01:25.941+0000)
The reason it looks like Kindred murdered the squire is because of this.
During the fight, he had a choice. Go in fighting or run away. He probably ran away because he saw someone coming straight for him, and he tried to flee. Because of this, Wolf started his hunt because the boy doesn't want to die.
When wolf finally snatched him, that was when the squire was caught by his assailant and axed down as well.
Remember, if Lamb and Wolf goes by the same rules of engagement (with the difference being Lamb goes for those who accept and Wolf goes to those who resist), then their methods happen the moment you die.
Lamb's arrow struck one of the warriors the moment an axe cleaved him. Not before. Not after.
Kindred appeared before Magga because she evaded death, and they wanted to see her. By all means, if she chose to flee away when Wolf was--in essense--goading her, he probably would have picked up the kill cause she'd run STRAIGHT BACK TO CAMP. If she ran straight back, she would meat the bandits, and wolf would get a kill. Instead, she stayed and talked to them and rather take Lamb's arrow. Because of this, they parted ways and appeared again in the future, during the end of her life.
Ahh it's a metaphor for avoiding death. because Magga was brave in front of Kindred. She was spared and given her arrow.
GreenLore1 votesFrom what I understand,what kindred does happens on a more spiritual level. The wolf in this case was the cause of death on a spiritual level,but in reality it might have been a rain of arrows from the enemy or an axe to the head.
Look at the story about maga and kindred. If Maga chose to run from kindred,from wolf,she would have died,wolf would have eaten her. However the actual cause of death would have been the bandits who killed her friends.
Peridition6 votesThey said before that Kindred does't choose who to take, they just appear in the final moments of life. Meaning the squire was meant to die regardless. He simply chose to run from a quick death by fleeing the battle.
CupcakeTrap5 votes"But you’re Death," said Mort. "You go around killing people!" I? KILL? said Death, obviously offended. CERTAINLY NOT. PEOPLE GET KILLED, BUT THAT’S THEIR BUSINESS. I JUST TAKE OVER FROM THEN ON. AFTER ALL, IT’D BE A BLOODY STUPID WORLD IF PEOPLE GOT KILLED WITHOUT DYING, WOULDN’T IT?
PerchancetoGame3 votesWas actually thinking of logging in and making a Terry Pratchett reference myself - Death's quote of "There is no justice, only me" seems to apply pretty well here. Quite happy that someone else beat me to the punch. High five!
CupcakeTrap1 votesWas actually thinking of logging in and making a Terry Pratchett reference myself - Death's quote of "There is no justice, only me" seems to apply pretty well here. Quite happy that someone else beat me to the punch. High five!
High five!
I also enjoyed that darkly humorous bit about how Death doesn't know much about burial customs or graveyards, because he usually meets people well before any of that happens:
‘And will you look at that?’ he said. ‘My dad made that axe for me! A fine weapon to take into the afterlife, I don’t think!’
IS THAT SOME KIND OF BURIAL CUSTOM?
‘Don’t you know? You are Death, aren’t you?’
THAT DOESN’T MEAN I HAVE TO KNOW ABOUT BURIAL CUSTOMS. GENERALLY, I MEET PEOPLE BEFORE THEY’RE BURIED. THE ONES I MEET AFTER THEY’VE BEEN BURIED TEND TO BE A BIT OVER-EXCITED AND DISINCLINED TO DISCUSS THINGS.
PerchancetoGame2 votesThe recently deceased are a tad excitable aren't they? More than a little high strung, I should think....
I'm re-reading Soul Music currently (last time was seventh grade so a good 12 years ago or so) so I'll probably end up taking a look at Mort afterwards. Looking forward to it :D
Sharjo3 votesKindred is death mate. Not sure what you expected.
DragonShea2 votes[{quoted}](name=Dr Oshawott,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=WMn2k706,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-10-09T21:27:09.649+0000)
In the recently released lore, 'Forest for the Trees' Kindred comes across a young squire with nothing but a sword. I don't know if he was injured or not but Kindred decides to kill him. And Lamb Laughs at what Wolf did.
Like... are they just?: "Hey Lamb, you see that guy over there" "Yes, what about him" "Lets kill him" "Okay"
Seems like they're bad spirits.
It seems to me that Kindred is more like a misguided spirit that thinks it is the embodiment of death. Grim Reapers are spirits that takes spirits just when they die. Kindred seems to be killing a little too early for their victims fates is decided.
The Ellimiist2 votesIsn't everyone a child killer when annie is in the game?
Fasmodey1 votesLoL story is getting more and more brutal, I love it. Tahm Kench is pretty sadistic demon ('' snapped her bones and crushed her limb, this meal? It let me satisfied ''), Kindred doesn't care what they're going to kill, child or innocent. I smell Warhammer atmosphere. Probably because of new w4k writer.
DragonShea1 votes[{quoted}](name=Dr Oshawott,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=WMn2k706,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-10-09T21:27:09.649+0000)
In the recently released lore, 'Forest for the Trees' Kindred comes across a young squire with nothing but a sword. I don't know if he was injured or not but Kindred decides to kill him. And Lamb Laughs at what Wolf did.
Like... are they just?: "Hey Lamb, you see that guy over there" "Yes, what about him" "Lets kill him" "Okay"
Seems like they're bad spirits.
I agree.