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Varus' new lore

Rafflecopter··96 votes·8,747 views

I am really disappointed by the new lore Riot has made fro Varus. He used to be just a man, who had to make a choice between duty and family. He sacrificed everything for vengeance, which I think myself and a lot of other people, made for a great tragic story. Sure the lore cant really be expended much beyond "well there goes Varus again, still seeking that revenge", but I think his original origin story is much better. Now it's literally two gay dudes and a demon, which sounds like some cheap pandering sitcom. I mean all three of them melded together to become one? "Oh no the Darkin is corrupting me, I have to fight it!" Its literally the same story between Kayn and Rhaast, but this time its 2v1. How in the hell is this lore better than the original? You easily could have had the EXACT SAME origin story for Varus, but change out "pool of black" for "darkin bow". That would have even opened up new possibilities for lore expansion. But no, you have to delete a perfectly good backstory completely, in order to push through your first openly gay champion. I mean his lines don't even make sense now. First of all, he talks through the first person using "I". Which one of the three does the use of "I" refer to? Are you going to completely revamp his voice lines as well to remove this inconsistency?
Also most of his quotes deal with him knowing that he doesn't have a long time left, and the weight of what he is doing. Lets take a quick peeksie: "Beware a man with nothing to lose." - Well not entirely true now. There are now 2 men, and a demon rattling around in there. Which one of them has nothing to lose? And if its the demon, why does he refer to himself as a man?

"I am forsaken."- Again, to whom does this refer? is it the injured dude, because he actually got a second chance to be with his lover. Is it non-injured dude? Because same thing, his lover doesnt die and he gets to be with him. Is it the darkin? No, because he got his freedom after being trapped for a long time.

"Bloodshed carries a price." - Not true for any of these characters. The darkin loves bloodshed and thats just what he does, and the other two are hunters who make their livelihood off bloodshed. Unless you are talking about meat prices in the Ionia market, how does this even make the slightest bit of sense?

"Only cowards flee their fate." - Well isn't that EXACTLY what the two hunters did when one became mortally wounded? He didn't lie down and accept that he was paws up. Instead he got melded in with his bud and some rando demon to live longer.

"I'm on borrowed time." - Not anymore, seeing as the darkin saved the one dude from dying by joining his body, then decided "ah screw it, you get in here too big boy" and sucked up the other one too. None of them are really racing the clock to get out. Its just 3 guys in one body, where two of them love each other and the third is kind of a dick.

I guess what I am saying is that this change feels completely unneeded, and poorly thought out. If I had to guess, the reason behind this was that Riot probably saw Overwatch get a positive light from having the first openly LGBT character and decided to do that as well. So they took the first handsome, but not too manly character they could think of and made him gay. It sucks to see a champ that previously had a family and a tragic backstory do a complete 180 into just another edgelord, except now he is 2/3 gay as well.

Bravo Riot, even though you say your lore team thought long and hard about the changes, it's apparent they didn't see past "we need a LGBT character STAT". There are some glaring inconsistencies between the new lore and what he actually says, which took me less than 5 min to look up. What is your excuse? Beyond "well we tried our best, and we like to listen to everyone. Believe us when we say every change is scrutinized and we just want to flesh out the entire worlds lore sad face. We're sorry you didnt like it, but our statistics and data show that more people than ever like this change ".

Who knows, maybe one day I will feel a sense of pride and accomplishment from all these changes. But there is an old adage that goes "if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Unless your'e Riot Games, then fix what ain't broke and break what needs fixing."

RIP Varus 11/30/2017 [sg-soraka]

95 Comments

Ebonmaw Dragon39 votes

{quoted}

Its literally the same story between Kayn and Rhaast, but this time its 2v1.

Actually, this is a fair point...

Insidious29 votes

Say it louder for the people in the back

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Melledoneus24 votes

#I am really disappointed by the new lore Riot has made fro Varus. He used to be just a man, who had to make a choice between duty and family. He sacrificed everything f-

Ok, sorry, I'm better than that.

Rafflecopter4 votes

I am not sure what you mean? Please continue with you thought so we can have a discussion about it, otherwise what was the point of posting this?

Melledoneus16 votes

He said

Say it louder for the people in the back

So I just made the text of the post bigger to indicate I was saying your post louder for people in the back.

Stupid joke, but I guess I owe you a real opinion now, so bear with me.

In my personal opinion, the new Varus lore didn't really captivate me. Sure, the animation was cool, but the comic was something I just simply couldn't concentrate on because there was hardly any real tension. Yes, there are battles but these characters gave me no reason to really like them or connect with them. They were just introduced as lovers, talked for a page, talked for another page or two, then tragedy strikes. There's little development involved and these characters are just not compelling as a result.

The lore itself is unfulfilling and the story doesn't really provide any real reason to be excited for Varus anymore. Before, he was this kick-ass guy wielding a demon bow, pledging to take on an entire nation for his revenge. Now, I'm fine with the Darkin bit, in fact I embrace it. But the part with the fusing of the bodies and him basically being a budget Piccolo fusion is just off-putting. Fusion should be something intimate and personal and the people who fuse should have interesting interactions. Here, it's just Varus saying "I'mma kill him" and Kai saying "Nuuu." It's not executed well, and thus it's not really interesting.

The dynamic between Kai and Valmar is weak. And I'm not saying that because of their sexual affiliation. I'm saying that as a writer and somebody who thoroughly enjoys good lore, that their interactions are lacking in substance, like a milkshake that has nothing but whipped cream in the cup. Sure, it can taste good for the first few seconds, but it leaves you wanting. Similarly, we see two guys hunting together. "Oh, cool, they're having a bromance, that's interesting and new." But then they leave it at that. No personality clashes, no displays of connection, we don't even know who these people are before we're expected to care about them.

Varus the Darkin is also very cliche. While Aatrox enjoys war like an artist enjoys nature and Rhaast is basically the crazy fun berserker, Varus is just some guy who wants to kill. No reason other than "I hate them all." That's edgy, sure. But that's it. There's no true purpose here, he's just a being of vengeance who feels like his character is missing something. You can't feel that strongly for something with a purpose that weak. His backstory also leaves nothing to even wonder or think about. He killed people, he got bound, he got sealed away. Nothing interesting added other than a few details we don't honestly care about.

Do you want a good example of a vengeance character? Guts, or Punisher. Guts is a badass demon slayer who, while he seems not to care about people all that much, he actually values human life and has a very soft side to him when it comes to other people. Punisher, on the other hand, is a vigilante who fights the right people for the right reasons with the most wrong, brutal methods. He is a vengeful character, yes, but there is something beyond "grah revenge" that makes him an interesting character. Vengeance should be a string that ties together a character's personality, not makes up its entirety. Varus is a good example of a vengeful character done wrong.

Feel free to correct me on anything, I am definitely interested in this discussion as much as you are and I'd like to see what you think.

Rafflecopter11 votes

Haha oh i didnt even catch that, but it was a good joke! Just went over my head a bit.

[sg-miss-fortune]

But as for everything else, i agree with you wholeheartedly. Its like they tried to push a vengeance angle as well as a romantic angle, but they came up lacking in both. Like Xayah and Rakan have a good relationship and I don't think anyone would say that their relationship lore was not done well. But Kai and Val just seem to lack something between them, and their personalities are carbon copies of each other. Even the characters themselves look almost identical, sans a few coloration differences.

Riot seemed to want to take a few different story arcs and try to mesh them together to make something original, but ended up instead with something bland and uninspired.

PerchancetoGame2 votes

As a gay man, yes I agree that Kai and Val seem a little flat but at the same time, many, many stories have "generic straight couple #4" so I accept that gay couples will get a bit of that as well. Such is life and the price of representation.

That being said, they're not quite as simple as OP said, seeing as Val's desire for vengeance is what gives Varus his opening and their interactions reflect that. Even in the short story, he's less openly hostile to Varus than Kai. The first few pages give some nice details as well that set them apart and while it appears a little boring and trivial, maybe that's kind of the point. They're just a normal couple going to meet one of their families for the first time. Fleshed out? No, but at the same time, maybe we don't really need to know how they met or when their first fight was. The story is about how two rather normal guys react to their decidedly not normal situation - not their lives before.

While it does seem like the narrative rather defines them by their relationship, in the context of the story, that's actually okay - cause it's their feelings for each other that allow them to fight Varus. So yes, I suppose they are defined by it cause that's why they haven't been consumed.

Regarding Varus, I actually like his being a villain. Like his previous incarnation, he's out for fairly simple vengeance on behalf of his kin. He may be going a little overboard (as he seemed to be in his earlier lore as well) but honestly, I can't really fault him. He's trapped on a strange world, no chance of going back home, the few others like him are scattered to the winds, and all the while he has two guys questioning and hindering him. I'd be angry too.

Val's decision echoes the original lore too, making a Faustian bargain when faced with a grievous loss, just as Varus did - they both go to the dark power in the temple for aid when they lose what they care about. In a sense, the key elements of the old lore are still there - but now we have a great deal more lore on the Darkin as well. And that pleases me greatly.

The Darkin will rise again! Aatrox Kayn (couldn't find Rhaast) Varus

Rafflecopter5 votes

I think that to carry out a good vengeance story, the character has to lose something important to them. The more important it is, the greater the desire for revenge is. But Val didn't really lose anything. Kai didn't die, they were just blended up with a darkin. All three of them are still alive, just in a less traditional sense. I mean, not even the family or citizens close to them seem to have been injured heavily. So it kind of calls into question what his motive for revenge is.
Another problem I had, was the fact that the story revolves around their relationship, yet they never seem to get past "they are hunting buddies who say they love each other". Xayah and Rakan show a "human" side to their relationship with bickering and banter. Val and Kai on the other hand just seem like cardboard stand-ins who just go through the motions of people in a relationship. I feel like if Riot had exchanged Xayah and Rakan for Val and Kai, few people would have problem with an openly gay adc/supp duo. Most people would actually enjoy it more because of the bickering and words between them. That is what makes them relatable and what works for making an in-game relationship. You don't get that relatability from Kai and Val's storyline

ZURELL1 votes

i guess varus isnt for you anymore

rip varus being a breeder fan favorite :/

JoeMG2 votes

Very well said. The Punisher is one of my favorite characters because he has a very real motivation that defines him. It's weird that nothing was really lost for Varus. This is more of a "deal with the devil" type thing, which is cool and all, but I don't think really reflects the Darkin lore. I think the Darkin are like parasites that infect the minds of their host so I don't see how that works with two hosts at once.

I actually really enjoyed the fan theories after Kayn came out where Aatrox was fully corrupted, Kayn was either corrupted or defeated his Darkin, and Varus was undergoing corruption but resisting. Wish Riot took it in that direction.

JacctheInsomniac15 votes

[deleted]

Rafflecopter13 votes

Its shoehorned in, the only reason for it is to pander. Someones sexuality should never be placed at the forefront of who they are, because that is disingenuous to who they are as a person. That is literally what both Kai and Valmar are though. Their backstory in the comic is literally "we are both really good at a lot of things, but we love each other most." There are a good portion of the panels in the comic saying just that, and nothing more. They are both extremely one-dimensional characters, and Riot is doing the LGBT community a disservice by having such shallow characters that rely entirely on their orientation to be unique. Seriously, go back and read the comic and tell me those characters don't have a personality equivalent to a wet paper bag.

JacctheInsomniac6 votes

[deleted]

TyrekGoldenspear20 votes

Or maybe you're letting the fact that they are gay blind you to the fact that they are poorly written and a shoehorned in agenda that has the added side effect of ruining Varus's drive, and motives. His VO doesn't even make sense anymore. Why go through all that extra VO work when you can just flesh out his old lore? It was fine.

JacctheInsomniac3 votes

[deleted]

Rafflecopter6 votes

No I think it would be equally as bad, because the characters themselves are bland. The only reason them being gay is an issue, is because that is what this entire change seems to be built around, trying to add an openly gay characer to League.

JacctheInsomniac4 votes

[deleted]

Rafflecopter9 votes

See saying that they "saw an opportunity to make a gay character" is such a cheap cop out.

They could have decided to make Urgot one of the Vastaya when they reworked him because they saw an opportunity for change. They could have made Garen actually be a double agent for Noxus, because that is an opportunity to mix it up a bit. They could have made the Drake on SR actually be Shyvana's 4th cousin, twice removed, and that's why she can never smite it correctly.

But with two of the three examples, making some change like that would ruin an important part of the character. Just because a small opportunity comes to change something, doesn't mean the change should automatically be applied

JacctheInsomniac2 votes

[deleted]

Rafflecopter8 votes

So if i told you a year ago that Varus is actually three dudes in one body, two of them in a relationship and one is a demon, you would have just accepted it? You would have said "wow, that seems like that is actually way more fitting for Varus than the lore that exists now"?

TyrekGoldenspear16 votes

No.

I don't care how many people are trapped in Varus. That isn't the point here.

This was a story of Vengeance, and how Varus decided to go down a dark path in the name of vengeance. This was HIS choice, and HIS tragedy. Not some random people who get trapped in him and how it's basically Kayn plus 1

Varus fought the corruption. Varus walked down a dark path and tried his hardest to keep the darkness from consuming him completely.

That is Varus. What we got is not Varus. It is a completely different champion, with different motives, characteristics, etc.

JacctheInsomniac3 votes

[deleted]

Jolly Gene3 votes

Ditto![slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

ReidtheBones5 votes

I completely agree.

Arthianne2 votes

Varus fought the corruption. Varus walked down a dark path and tried his hardest to keep the darkness from consuming him completely.

That is Varus. What we got is not Varus. It is a completely different champion, with different motives, characteristics, etc.

If you read part 3 of the comic you would see that the "gay dudes" are fighting the corruption the best they can to their fullest extent. It is still a story about tragedy and vengence. It's a story of the darkins vengence against the human race for making the darkin go extinct. its a story of Val Avenging kai for what the noxians have done to him. It is still a story of vengence. The main issue people are having here is the fact that riot stressed the fact they were gay and removed the family aspect for a different kind of kinship. This version of varus makes more sense in the current universe and allows them to expand on the darkin race and the lore behind it. I stand behind riot on this change, I dont have attachments to an inconsistent backstory. I do hope that they update his VO to reflect this change however.

This isnt the only champion to have inconsistent VO, there are still a few outdated champions with the fields of justice VO's.

Masked Lunatic14 votes

{quoted}

Drop the gay criticism all together, the gay relationship didn't ruin Varus, it would have been the same shit if it was a straight couple and I am ecstatic that Riot had the balls to go there.

I am upset that they didn't make a new champion to do it.

He's not criticizing the gay part, the op is pointing out that Riot is trying too hard to push an "openly gay champion" and in doing so they completely ignored varus's previous (more distinct) vengeance based identity + current voiceover.

Even in their explanation video they made it seem like they were desperate to do something different and picked varus, and then threw on the trope that love trumps all (doesnt matter between who). As the op said they could have just done the darkin weapon thing anyways (without taking a sledgehammer to the original varus).

edit: just to point out, Riot could have had Varus be born from one of the hunters (+ darkin bow) and have had the wounded one die (this would be a source of vengeance as well as keeping the homosexual relationship between the hunters as riot wishes it to be).

gabetheguy9 votes

[{quoted}](name=Masked Lunatic,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=4dftEedz,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2017-11-30T17:44:46.631+0000)

He's not criticizing the gay part, the op is pointing out that Riot is trying too hard to push an "openly gay champion" and in doing so they completely ignored varus's previous (more distinct) vengeance based identity + current voiceover.

Even in their explanation video they made it seem like they were desperate to do something different and picked varus, and then threw on the trope that love trumps all (doesnt matter between who). As the op said they could have just done the darkin weapon thing anyways (without taking a sledgehammer to the original varus).

edit: just to point out, Riot could have had Varus be born from one of the hunters (+ darkin bow) and have had the wounded one die (this would be a source of vengeance as well as keeping the homosexual relationship between the hunters as riot wishes it to be).

remember kids: you literally cannot criticize a gay person, or anything relating to gay people, because otherwise that's homophobia!

gabetheguy8 votes

agreed. I have literally no problem with gay characters, but this is literally just completely shoehorned in to pander. too lazy to design a gay champion smh.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

{quoted}

agreed. I have literally no problem with gay characters, but this is literally just completely shoehorned in to pander. too lazy to design a gay champion smh.

Exactly

TheFancySkeleton6 votes

I want to know if "Varus" has four balls now. Josuke style.

Rafflecopter3 votes

Now that's what I call asking the important questions.

Kitty Pix4 votes

I'm disregarding every post that is using similarities to Kayn/Rhaast as a bad thing. It's literally a unifying factor of Darkin lore.

It's what Darkin have to do to remain in this world now after being weakened so much. "Aatrox" is also a possessed human, Aatrox is actually the BLADE.

Especially since all of his previous themes are literally still present, just.. not heterosexual anymore.

There's still vengeance, there's still love and there's still loss. And contrary, I can see relations to his new lore in every single one of the quotes you listed so??? And it's not like he'd be the only person with an outdated VO, we're all still patiently waiting for MF's (and many others') updated VO, why should Varus get special treatment?

How far are you all trying to reach to not seem homophobic... [sg-lux-2]

Rafflecopter12 votes

His themes may still be "present" but they are much, much weaker than before. Vengeance for a murdered son and wife is what made the movie Gladiator great. Vengeance for Noxians being Noxians and one person getting injured for trying to fight a bunch of people by himself at once? Not so much.

Kitty Pix3 votes

So.. "I'm homophobic" is all I'm hearing... Try again.

Rafflecopter11 votes

You need to check your reading comprehension then. My response said nothing about them being gay, only how thematic elements present are now much weaker.

Kitty Pix3 votes

Except they're not, you just clearly lack the empathy to feel for any kind of relationship you fail to understand.

Like I said, try again.

Rafflecopter10 votes

Now you are trying to say you understand me from a few posts on an online forum? Ok bud, nice try. Go take your egotistical, bigoted booty somewhere else and be offended on others behalves there.

Oh and before you say it, bigoted means not open to any differing opinion, which clearly is an issue you struggle with.

Not everyone who disagrees with you is automatically a homophobic racist.

Kitty Pix2 votes

Yes because that's totally what I'm saying...

For one, let's throw in actual quotes about the relationship from the creators and see if you don't all sounds silly acting like this isn't the same kind of impactful love from his previous lore... https://youtu.be/KnI4es0Bv8I?t=5m3s

Second, "others behalves"... lol And I'm the one assuming to understand everything about you from a few posts on an online forum? Okay buddy, good to know you could tell my gender and sexuality from literally two responses.

Last, everyone can downvote me all they want but I can see your thinly veiled internalized homophobia. You don't have to be outwardly discriminatory or rude to anyone pertaining to the LGBT+ community to be considered homophobic. You can have a misconception/ideals, or understandings than you simply can't relate, or can't see the impact in those kinds of relationships. It's not your fault but it's important to open your eyes and realize these sorts of ideals are incorrect or your initial thoughts about something were influenced by previous wrong teachings.

Where'd you pull racist from though.. What is with everyone trying to seem like some sort of top dog when their stance is being threatened. How about actually giving me points, maybe some reason? And not ones like that Dulce dude up there... "one of the few confirmed straight characters" PFFT, sit the fuck down.

Rafflecopter7 votes

Kk bud, you don't know anything about me or my personal beliefs, yet you are making these accusations that I am homophobic and have no basis for my complaints other than that.
Go home and think about what you're doing, mmkay sweetie?

PickIe3 votes

I feel like FriendlySuppMain is either trolling or triggered... can’t tell. Doesn’t matter if Varus is gay or not, he didn’t LOSE anything. Val and Kai are united in a body with a darkin. Right now there’s no sense of tragedy when you’re with your lover but imprisoned in a vessel. One of them (probably Kai?) should have died to create a sense of loss.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pinhead Lairy,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=4dftEedz,comment-id=000600000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-12-03T15:26:10.232+0000)

I feel like FriendlySuppMain is either trolling or triggered... can’t tell. Doesn’t matter if Varus is gay or not, he didn’t LOSE anything. Val and Kai are united in a body with a darkin. Right now there’s no sense of tragedy when you’re with your lover but imprisoned in a vessel. One of them (probably Kai?) should have died to create a sense of loss.

Yes. This person gets it.

dolce de leche7 votes

Lol what? Ok so I'll try and explain this to you. The issue is not that Varus is gay. No one is saying that. The issue is that the story is weak and because of the obvious change of one of the few CONFIRMED straight characters, especially for one whose motivation is driven by revenge for WIFE and CHILD, to becoming gay, many percieve the blatant lack of attention to actually fleshing out the characters in the story, and creating a compelling motivation, as stemming from Riot's desire to shoehorn in a gay champ. So let's run down the list. Varus being gay in itself is not an issue. If the story were actually good, or at least better than that of before, the complaints would be questionable, but it is worse. A champion in league being gay is not an issue. Most champs don't have a confirmed sexuality, and even less have that sexuality play a key role in their story. Varus was one of those few. And yet STILL if it had been done well people would not complain. Instead the core issue is how bad and seemingly rushed the story is. People look for a reason, and what could pop out. I mean really. It is ridiculous to have the GALL to act like the change from seeking revenge for wife and child to being gay does not stick out as a big change. And what else could be the reason Riot rushed it, at least outside of a simple lack of care or incompitence? Don't act like people are being homophobic unless they actually are. Now not everyone is making the same arguments as I am, but I'm damn sure that the OP would agree with what I'm saying. At least from his previous responses. Hope you aren't in denial and just seeking to make yourself feel better by calling others derogitory terms. I really hope that you get the argument and can now formulate a better position.

Kitty Pix1 votes

But it doesn't seem rushed or bad at all, which all of that in and of itself is subjective so.... yeah, I'm not seeing your relevance.

I've seen equal numbers of people happy and pleased with it as I've seen all the homophobes yelling that their vengeance isn't in a neat little heterosexual bundle anymore.

You can pretend you're not being bigoted, but clearly...

"I really hope you can formulate a better position" please pull your head out of your own butt before even thinking of a response.

dolce de leche2 votes

Whether you agree with the critisism is another matter. Just because many see it as an inferior story and you do not does not make their complaints invalid. Funnily enough that last part was actually quite apt as you have continued to show yourself to assume that anybody who disagrees with you, or even critiques how you are displaying your position, is bigoted. I never even said that I personally have any problem with Varus being gay, or that I think that the story in itself is even really that bad(ok one part of my post could be interpreted that way so my bad there), but i can see where people come from when they say that they just do not like it as much. You immedietly assumed I thought all those things though, and then tagged me as bigoted. You even ignored the actual meat of my post and misitrerprited my last statement to be that of arrogance. Instead I genuinely do wish to see you no longer to these things because they do nothing but bring your argument down. The funny thing is that you actually hit where you should(or at least could) have an actual debate not based on a speculation of generalised intent and effort put into something. Because you see I don't actually buy into the idea that Riot rushed this just to get a gay character in league. Because I have no way of knowing and no actual concrete evidence for that. What your point could be about is whether the story is actually better than the old story. I hope you can see the points I made and stop calling me bigoted for no reason and with no evidence.

RookPusher1 votes

https://imgur.com/a/PwxJI

LISTEN TO THIS MAN, HE CARES ABOUT THE CHARACTER A LOT

Rafflecopter12 votes

How often i play a champ doesn't mean I don't care about the lore of said champ. Riot could do this to a champion I play every day and I would have the same reaction. Do my mechanics with a champion matter when it comes to lore changes? Can I only be mastery 7 with a champ to even be able to talk about changes I do or do not like being done to them?

RookPusher1 votes

The point is you don't care about Varus, you just have a social-political problem and there are better places to express that. Nothing about in-game Varus has changed. You just wanted to push your agenda.

Rafflecopter11 votes

Just because I don't play a champ, doesn't mean I don't care. If they tried to make Jhin into a 15 year old emo kid who is just "misunderstood", I would have the same problem. Not because of him being a 15 year old emo kid, but because they are taking away a fundamental part of the character and leaving something behind that is lacking .

RookPusher1 votes

but how would you know what's fundamental?

Rafflecopter10 votes

Because the was Virus' ENTIRE reason for accepting the corruption in the first place. To get the power he knew would destroy him in order to enact his vengeance.

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