Boards›Player Behavior

Can I please get some leniancy on this one? 0 tolerence from Riot.

Aradhell··1 votes·1,837 views

Looking for a riot response here, tired of not understanding the chat restriction system and seeing other players be consistently more toxic than me without repercussion.

I got a 14 day restriction for 1 game, obviously I have had a history of chat restriction, but this instance was for one singular instance. The only arguably toxic things that I said were "I blame you for not knowing how to jg" and "wtf are you doing?" although this was referring to Zoe being in the opponent's jg at level 3 and getting collapsed on, it wasn't hostile, it was just a wtf moment. To clarify Zoe was the mid and not even a real issue. While the other remark is undoubtedly toxic, I'm having a really hard time with riot right now, I just recently re unlocked honor and truly have changed my chat behaviors, which is what makes it so frustrating that I'm getting a 14 day ban from an automated system for essentially making one toxic remark. People get frustrated, it happens, but after that remark I cooled down a bit, and kept my chat respectful. I feel like riot gives very little grace on the matter and almost no opportunity to reform. People who are improving their chat behavior (I used to be toxic beyond toxic) shouldn't be brutally punished for small slip ups such as this one.

Furthermore the basis of what is "toxic" IS NOT IN ANY WAY clearly defined by riot, it is in the ToU as the summoners code, however it is based on community rule. Which essentially means the basis for being toxic is actually different for each game and depends on the players you're with. I know that I'm responsible for my chat and that the other toxic players in this game have no bearing on what I said, but riot doesn't issue out different punishments based on different behavior. So even though Trynd's problem was that I was feeding, I'm getting penalized for unsportsmanlike conduct due to my chat (still just 1 comment). Eve was not only toxic and flaming throughout, but also afk. Trynd said that I had down syndrome, yet my buddy who also reported these 2 got no feedback notification, both of these players got off scott free after duo flaming me.

If players can be punished this harshly for a single slip up there is no chance for reform. Especially since Riot RARELY uses human interaction in the reporting process. Yes the system works, but it is overly harsh and once you're flagged by the system anything you say is risky, if Riot's answer to this is "yes you said something toxic so our system works", it proves my point that Riot is more interested in penalizing players than helping them reform and correct their behavior. You can't just take and take and take, you have to give a little ground too Riot.

I'd like to see Riot implement clearly defined "chat behavior" and have some sort of system that actually works to help players instead of just penalizing and throwing out the banhammer without even having human intervention, players put a lot into this game and Riot seems to largely care less.

"Game 1 In-Game Aradhell: you too Aradhell: wtf are you doing? Aradhell: 6 min Aradhell: what I know is that my tower is almost gone and youve done nothing to help Aradhell: 6 min Aradhell: I blame you for not knowing how to jg Aradhell: its not feeding when you die under tower trynd Aradhell: it's getting countered Aradhell: thats literally what a jg exists for Aradhell: better jg wins Aradhell: I mean it's your funeral since lucian is fed Aradhell: so did you by not helping Aradhell: you are equally guilty if not moreso Aradhell: im sure thats what the pros say too Aradhell: 6 min tower Aradhell: still no help and they about to get the second one Aradhell: that moment when you're abopu to get the second tower at 9 min Aradhell: my fault tho Aradhell: report toxic eve flaming Aradhell: because asking for help is flaming? Aradhell: report both and let riot decide Aradhell: lol thats why you gank before that Aradhell: we asked for help early Aradhell: eve is being just as toxic but you dont care Aradhell: lol go look at game history Aradhell: all I did was ask for help Aradhell: trynd says thats a crime Aradhell: he says that dying under tower is feeding Aradhell: she just called me a feeder thats toxic in itself Aradhell: all we did was play our best and ask for help and getting flamed hard Aradhell: ty Aradhell: we asked for help when bot lane was 0 and 1 Aradhell: help Aradhell: thats what we expect Aradhell: you didnt get countered Aradhell: you had last pick Aradhell: we had first pick bot lane Aradhell: and got hard countered Aradhell: now eve is afk Aradhell: and you want to report me Post-Game Aradhell: eve toxic and adk Aradhell: dude you just insulted mentally handicapped people and still think im the problem Aradhell: enjoy your ban"

28 Comments

Chermorg3 votes

You are slightly correct that, for players who are recently punished, it may be "easier" to get punished again in the future.

If you had a recent chat restriction, you should logically have tried to be on your best behavior. If this is your best, it's not good enough. That just shows that the chat restriction didn't work - hence why Riot gave you an escalated punishment for continually harassing others.

Aradhell2 votes

This reply proves my point exactly, that chat restrictions don't work, which is why Riot needs to formulate a system that fosters player growth instead of player punishment. If it is "easier" to get punished again, riot is not interested in reforming, but simply issuing out punishments with 0 tolerance.

If my best isn't good enough, Riot needs to clearly outline why this is and what exactly I'm doing that's wrong instead of giving me reform card with entire game log of chats, most of which are not in violation. Instead of helping me to become a better communicator, riot is stifling me.

Riot's report system works in the same way that pouring diesel fuel on a garden kills the weeds, many flowers will die as well.

"If this is your best, it's not good enough. "

You failed to clarify what was wrong with my behavior. Why wasn't it good enough?

Chermorg2 votes

There's millions of League players. It's usually completely obvious what was wrong, as it is here. Riot doesn't have the manpower to baby someone through a punishment.

You were continuation argumentative, passive aggressive, and borderline harassing others on your team. Very little, if any, of your chat was actually game focused. This, in combination with the fact you've been punished before, is what led to your punishment this time. You clearly did not reform after your prior punishments.

Aradhell1 votes

So is it accurate to say that any chat that is not directly game focused is punishable behavior? That's what I'm getting from this and honest to God if Riot would put that in game somewhere it would solve all my problems. But as I said I, like other players, am unaware of Riot's standards.

Chermorg1 votes

Well.. yes and no.

If you're constantly talking about football, in a game others are talking about football, and you're not spamming it, and nobody's asking you to stop, that's not punished.

But continually arguing and being passive aggressive about things that are in the past and/or not future game related certainly is punishable. Riot does say that in the Summoner's Code.

Aradhell1 votes

If Riot is accurate in believing the number of toxic players is as low as they think, then giving human interaction in cases of severe punishment and making it clear to the player what went wrong would take minimal effort. One employee getting paid 10 or 15$ an hour could work an 8 hour shift and review hundreds or thousands of chat logs, highlight messages that were unacceptable, and even send a short message (or have generic premade ones for the employee to select from). It's not that the Riot doesn't have the manpower, it's that they don't care enough, their system is easier for them and that's all that matters.

Chermorg1 votes

8 hours is 420 minutes. Assuming a (mandatory) 30 minute lunch break in many states, you're looking at 390 minutes for someone to be reviewing chats.

You are saying that someone can review a log in 1-2 minutes at most. Maybe someone whose only focus was that and who was "trained" could do that.. but when I look at logs, I look at them for at least 5 minutes before posting (unless there's something obvious about them like hate speech). I think at best you should assume 5-10 minutes per person to review logs, highlight poor behavior, and send a message about them.

Even so, you'd likely have high turnover - most customer support jobs already do and I suspect (though have no information to confirm/deny) that Riot is the same - anyone in this drone type job really doesn't want to be there and they leave frequently - meaning you'd always be short persons, and you'd always have to retrain new ones.

Further, one of the large problems with support today is that many players feel they're being "copypastad" by the agent - given a premade response that isn't specific to their situation. People who think they're being "copypastad" tend not even to read it - they skim and go on - meaning the messages wouldn't even be useful to the player. Support already reviews peoples' logs and points out specifics upon request - yet we still see many players complaining on the boards that their punishments were invalid and that the support agent didn't help. Having that done for everyone instead of people who ask isn't going to change that.

It is that they don't have the manpower. Look at other game companies as well - they don't do similar things.

Aradhell1 votes

I've read some of your responses to other players and I would like to say that it's obvious you know what you're talking about. My problem isn't that the standards that people are held to are innately wrong. My major problem is and always will be Riot's failure to inform their gaming community, that invests innumerable hours and money into the game, what their expectations are for their players. Like I said before, I was blindsided by this penalty because I didn't think I was doing anything wrong. I thought I was being better. Riot did not make their expectations clear to me.

It's the equivalent of getting a speeding ticket in a construction zone where there are no posted speed limits. I just want Riot to put up some fucking speed limit signs for christ's sake instead of just issuing tickets and taking player's licenses.

Chermorg2 votes

They have posted speed limits though. The Summoner's Code provides quite clearly what the expected behavior is, and it can be summed up as "don't be a jerk".

Aradhell1 votes

But as I stated, I wasn't aware that my behavior in this example was unacceptable. It's not that I'm trying to be as much of a jerk as possible without breaking the rules, it's that I truly don't understand the rules why it was considered that I was being a jerk.

Chermorg1 votes

I feel you've broken rules 1, 3, 4, and 7 of the Summoner's Code. I encourage you to review those specifically and see if your chat meets those criteria.

Kei1431 votes

This I can stand behind.

I do want more education, clarity and transparency behind the system.

Then again, if they showed you that you were getting close to punished (regardless of punishment tier), would you stop your toxicity?

You already mentioned that chat restrictions don't work on you, and since you are on 14-day ban status, your next punishment is a permaban. So what will make you stop your toxicity?

TheMinionLeader1 votes

Please stop attacking people personally and focus on what they said. Stop telling them they are not good enough etc. This type of criticism is nonconstructive and downgrading at best. Breeds toxicity.

Sona Ping2 votes

Hello. I saw this thread so I am taking some of my free time to neutrally explain what is going on, what is happening and what is going to happen. That is what this board is for.

Can I please get some leniancy on this one? 0 tolerence from Riot.

I got a 14 day restriction for 1 game, obviously I have had a history of chat restriction, but this instance was for one singular instance.

It looks like this another instance of a maybe understandable misconception. The game's you are sent are there only as examples, so the player can see out of game what their chat looks like. They are not, nor are they intended to be, a complete list of why the latest tier of restriction was applied. The reason you have received a two-week suspension was your aforementioned history of chat, if you are not forgetting to include something or what not. There is leniency in what is counted for you and I and that guy over there where nothing comes of it. There are games that are tolerated (I can tell you that). However, in some combination of severity or frequency you have done too much and have received a warning of the form of a chat restriction, the 1st strike. It's there to remind you that you are not to abuse chat to argue with other players. You are given limited messages as a point to underline that it is for communicating to help win the game, e.g. "ward dragon", "going top after scuttle" things you only need to type a few times if at all. Then without positive change one would receive a second warning in another chat restriction, Strike 2. Now, since you did not change your behaviour, because you are still using chat to argue with other players which is an abuse of the system and a violation of your legal contract that you have signed, you have been given a two-week suspension. This is Strike 3. Like any other business, if someone is arguing with their patrons and being disruptive, they will be asked to leave. You can submit a ticket to Riot as things are reversed if they are in error and you can see if they think that this particular game triggering the suspension is mild enough to be thought that but... there is the aforementioned history and it is still arguing, blaming, and trying to press other players to use the report system as a weapon against other players.

That's what's going on. I've been here for a while, taking some of my time of writing this to create a particular point for you because I don't think the emphasis and information is conveyed to my standards by Riot and I don't think it would be good thing if negative things have to happen. Now I'm going to you what it is going to happen.

You have received multiple warnings to stop doing this and you have not changed your actions so you have received a two week suspension, your third strike. I am saying this in this way deliberately, to evoke "Three strikes, you're out." In two weeks, your suspension will be lifted. If you continue to behave in a way that will not be tolerated at any business, if you argue at all with any customer, As you have already used up all of the tolerance that was given to you by Riot to get a chat restriction, and as you have already used all leniency given to you by the strikes, the next time you choose to disrupt the game and argue with the other customers, you will be permanently banned.

Please do not make that happen.

Aradhell1 votes

"It looks like this another instance of a maybe understandable misconception. The game's you are sent are there only as examples, so the player can see out of game what their chat looks like. They are not, nor are they intended to be, a complete list of why the latest tier of restriction was applied. The reason you have received a two-week suspension was your aforementioned history of chat, if you are not forgetting to include something or what not."

This is completely untrue, I have spoken very little-to 0 in other games, this is why in my other restrictions I've had 3 games but in this example Riot could only provide 1, because there truly only was 1. This is why I'm feeling so defeated, because my behavior truly has changed, but Riot doesn't appreciate the improvement, instead they focus on the one slip up that happened in an understandably frustrating situation.

"because you are still using chat to argue with other players which is an abuse of the system and a violation of your legal contract that you have signed,"

This one really pisses me off and proves my point 1000%, if arguing with other players is a an abuse of chat, IT IS RIOT'S SOLE RESPONSIBILITY TO MAKE THAT CLEAR TO ALL PLAYERS. NOWHERE is it stated that "arguing with players" is toxic or punishable, and again it depends on discretion, at what point does a discussion turn into an argument? That question in itself is a matter of perception, which is something only a human can discern. Riot does not provide human intervention, however, and leaves perception to a machine.

"You have received multiple warnings to stop doing this and you have not changed your actions so you have received a two week suspension, your third strike."

Another falsehood. My actions have DRASTICALLY changed from where they began and I have made immense progress on my communication and player behavior, instead of a good job I got a 14 day ban for doing something that I didn't even know was wrong. Which reinforces my point that Riot fails to properly educate their players on what proper behavior is, both of us are community members with the power to report other players, yet you and I have wildly different views on what is acceptable and what isn't. If it is Riot's sole discretion to decide what is unacceptable (which is untrue, it's the discretion of the players who report) then Riot needs to CLEARLY and FORCIBLY educate players on what their standards are.

Like I said, I'm being punished for something I didn't even think was wrong, and that's the problem with the existing system, i got called a feeder and told I had down syndrome but no one cares about that because the people flaming me felt I was being toxic.

Furthermore, how does anyone who tells someone they have down syndrome have the right to say that my behavior was unacceptable? what a contradiction and misuse of power.

The truth of the matter is that you couldn't find fault enough in this situation to support Riot so you gave me a generic "don't be toxic" answer which is exactly what I'm trying to get passed. Toxicity is relative and depends on the perception of the player.

"if you argue at all with any customer, As you have already used up all of the tolerance that was given to you by Riot to get a chat restriction, and as you have already used all leniency given to you by the strikes, the next time you choose to disrupt the game and argue with the other customers, you will be permanently banned."

As I repeat, NOWHERE does Riot say that arguing with other players is punishable.

DearPear2 votes

Also, if that may help you in any way, here's all that's toxic in your chat logs :

"Game 1 In-Game Aradhell: wtf are you doing? Aradhell: 6 min Aradhell: what I know is that my tower is almost gone and youve done nothing to help Aradhell: 6 min Aradhell: I blame you for not knowing how to jg Aradhell: its not feeding when you die under tower trynd Aradhell: it's getting countered Aradhell: thats literally what a jg exists for Aradhell: better jg wins Aradhell: I mean it's your funeral since lucian is fed Aradhell: so did you by not helping Aradhell: you are equally guilty if not moreso Aradhell: im sure thats what the pros say too Aradhell: 6 min tower Aradhell: still no help and they about to get the second one Aradhell: that moment when you're abopu to get the second tower at 9 min Aradhell: my fault tho Aradhell: report toxic eve flaming Aradhell: because asking for help is flaming? Aradhell: report both and let riot decide Aradhell: lol thats why you gank before that Aradhell: we asked for help early Aradhell: eve is being just as toxic but you dont care Aradhell: lol go look at game history Aradhell: all I did was ask for help Aradhell: trynd says thats a crime Aradhell: he says that dying under tower is feeding Aradhell: she just called me a feeder thats toxic in itself Aradhell: all we did was play our best and ask for help and getting flamed hard

Aradhell: we asked for help when bot lane was 0 and 1 Aradhell: help Aradhell: thats what we expect Aradhell: you didnt get countered Aradhell: you had last pick Aradhell: we had first pick bot lane Aradhell: and got hard countered Aradhell: now eve is afk Aradhell: and you want to report me Post-Game Aradhell: eve toxic and adk Aradhell: dude you just insulted mentally handicapped people and still think im the problem Aradhell: enjoy your ban"

Pretty much everything but two lines.

Only 3 types of messages should be used IG :

  • Positive and relevant to the game
  • Neutral and relevant to the game
  • Positive and irrelevant to the game

Absolutely none of these messages fall into one of these categories.

Aradhell2 votes

"Only 3 types of messages should be used IG :

Positive and relevant to the game
Neutral and relevant to the game
Positive and irrelevant to the game"

If this is true (and the logic is pretty sound) then PLEASE RIOT PUT THIS IN YOUR GAME. I'm not the only player who thought their behavior had improved due to not knowing the guidelines.

I don't want different guidelines, I just want to know what they are.

Edit: THANK YOU. Seriously thank you, you are the first person that hasn't given me a generic "stop being an asshole" answer and actually helped clarify what Riot's standards are. Everyone else here thinks I just want to be an asshole without reproach, but as I said many people have different standards so it's important to know what the judge's standards are. Thank you again.

Aneirin1 votes

[sg-ahri-2]

Kei1431 votes

So.. you saying that 1 game you should be about to be a big jerk and another game you can't be a lesser jerk?

How about you not be a jerk at all?

report yasuo1 votes

[deleted]

Aradhell1 votes

Making fun of mentally handicapped people is literally the most hateful I can think of, and I can't believe you feel differently.

Aradhell1 votes

Also Riot mods have openly said that afking is more punishable than toxicity but obviously that isn't true as shown here.

Aradhell1 votes

I was called a feeder and told I have down syndrome and am 100% positive that those players were not punished.

DearPear1 votes

{quoted}

I'd like to see Riot implement clearly defined "chat behavior"

Not going to happen. There's no way a "comprehensive list of what you can't say ingame" gets released. You don't get to have that precise limit that you can play on to keep harassing people without getting punished. Behaviors are constantly morphing into new behaviors. Words change and new ways of harassing other players are used every once in a while.

If you need specific guidelines to not be a jerk you might have more urgent issues than your LoL account's availability.

Aradhell1 votes

"Only 3 types of messages should be used IG :

Positive and relevant to the game
Neutral and relevant to the game
Positive and irrelevant to the game"

This dude summed it up in 3 lines but a million Riot employees can't put this somewhere in their game?

"If you need specific guidelines to not be a jerk you might have more urgent issues than your LoL account's availability."

Here's the problem with your logic, every player's definition of what being a jerk is is different.

More from Player Behavior

The indefinite banning of Tyler1
Player Behavior4,799 comments
2,942
votes
14 day ban because playing Nunu Support with Smite is "stealing other people's roles"...?
Player Behavior1,525 comments
1,086
votes
Riot should add monthly status cards
Player Behavior241 comments
843
votes
Reminder that we haven't gotten our Summoner report cards yet :/
Player Behavior145 comments
619
votes
I'm not "triggered" by you throwing insults.
Player Behavior361 comments
548
votes
Black Alistar, King Rammus!!!!
Player Behavior462 comments
503
votes