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Troll Picks almost nonpunishable. Autofill protection not fully helping

ImSari··2 votes·455 views

Now, it is always recommended for someone to provide insight with an unbiased opinion, but I believe that user feedback is a partially subjective term that requires bias for it to go into full effect.

So I was in the queue, picked Mid and Bot as my first and second picks, without any autofill protection. A game is found but someone denies ready check. This happens another 3 times in the same queue, and once I finally find a match, I am placed support after requesting ADC and being denied it, which I fully understand, earning me a 2 game autofill protection after playing support in that game.

So I play the next game with autofill protection, and then the one after that, I get Bottom. My support picks jinx, bans my adc pick, and insists on playing adc because "if i dont we will lose". Someone in chat recommends him to play the pick he was assigned, but he refuses, and the only way I could report that player is after the game ends in the stat screen, meaning I would have had to play support when I EARNED the autofill protection for one of my roles, or play an undesired hero with two ADCs for 40+ minutes JUST so I can report someone who refuses to play support, so I queue dodged, and got a 6 minute suspension for it, which I know will magnify if I keep getting players like this in games where I wanna take a break from the number of times autofill puts me in support, as I see my earned protection being stripped away by someone who refuses to follow my (subjectively fair) chronology.

Now I am fairly new to the game, and might not know of another way to report players like this, so if there is one, please excuse this rant, but giving the full picture never hurts anyway.

However, if there is no other way to report players, and what I described in my third paragraph is truly the only way out of this situation, then I certainly see a problem here.

I'd love some help, thanks.

14 Comments

Kei1434 votes

There's no such thing as troll picking so long as he is playing to win.

Though, role stealing is a punishable offense and you can report him after the game. But why would you have to play a support? Jinx's initial AD is much lower than the rest of the ADs and you can last hit much easier than Jinx with pretty much any AD out there (other than Vayne), so just out last hit her. But also keep in mind that there is no rule that supports can not CS.

Personally, I'll call her bluff and let her dodge if she doesn't want to play. If she int's then you can take this chance to clean up the community.

Asterfix2 votes

{quoted}

There's no such thing as troll picking so long as he is playing to win.

Though, role stealing is a punishable offense and you can report him after the game. But why would you have to play a support? Jinx's initial AD is much lower than the rest of the ADs and you can last hit much easier than Jinx with pretty much any AD out there (other than Vayne), so just out last hit her. But also keep in mind that there is no rule that supports can not CS.

Personally, I'll call her bluff and let her dodge if she doesn't want to play. If she int's then you can take this chance to clean up the community.

But is that worth losing LP? Being Demoted? Losing your series? There should be a lobby remake option where if somebody pulls this then you can vote to remake the lobby on an actual majority vote (3/2 would be a yes in case a duo decides to troll) and while the vote is happening you can opt to be re-placed into queue (chance to be placed with the same trolls again) or be taken out of queue so you can stand up, take a walk, come back after enough time has passed.

Edit - I've had to queue dodge some pretty ridiculous lobbys and been punished for it. Someone asks for mid lane, is denied, the mid laner picks an ADC, the guy previously asking for mid lane goes "WTF NOW IM JUST GONNA FEED THIS GAME SO YOU LOSE FOR WASTING MY ROLE" - the other 4 people would obviously be like "yeah okay lets remake this lobby and opt out of the queue for a minute because this guy is crazy"

I mean the ONLY option you have right now is to ask somebody to purposefully DC so the game can be remade and you can report the character and hope that the guy who sacrificed his game to DC doesn't get reported.

Kei1432 votes

{quoted}

But is that worth losing LP? Being Demoted? Losing your series?

Ranked climbing is a long term project (11 months), and so long as one is better than their competition, they will climb. If you look at a span of 500 games over a season, 1 or 2 games with a troll hardly means anything anyways.

One might get 1 game with a troll, but it will be statistically offset by the troll on the enemy team later. Infact, the enemy team is 20% more likely to get a champ select troll so long as the person involved is not the champ select troll themselves.

Though of course, I can understand why people would want an option to be able to punish these players that threaten others in champ select without being punished themselves. Here is an official Riot answer that is still relevant today: https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2017/02/ask-riot-where-is-butchers-bridge/

Asterfix2 votes

{quoted}

Ranked climbing is a long term project (11 months), and so long as one is better than their competition, they will climb.

One might get 1 game with a troll, but it will be statistically offset by the troll on the enemy team. Infact, the enemy team is 20% more likely to get a champ select troll so long as the person involved is not the champ select troll themselves.

If you look at a span of 500 games over a season, 1 or 2 games with a troll hardly means anything anyways.

Though of course, I can understand why people would want an option to be able to punish these players that threaten others in champ select without being punished themselves. Here is an official Riot answer that is still relevant today: https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2017/02/ask-riot-where-is-butchers-bridge/

Yeah but having 1 game with a bad player experience can ruin the rest of your day playing. Some people become toxic because they had a bad game with a troll and start losing the game right after. I don't understand what the issue would be with removing the option to play with someone like that all together. In regards to the butchers bridge question, I've never been asked feedback for why I dodged a game and it feels like nothing substantial has been done about it. All i'm saying is just give ranked a vote to remake. If somebody gets supp and posts the every present "mid or feed" picks Zed and locks in then you click the little "remake" button in the corner, a vote prompt goes up, if the vote is successful you get to pick to be placed back into queue or taken out of it (automatically taken out if no answer is given)

Kei1432 votes

{quoted}

In regards to the butchers bridge question, I've never been asked feedback for why I dodged a game and it feels like nothing substantial has been done about it.

At the time of the nexus post, the behavioral team was working on the now honor system which was released in Aug-2017. They haven't announced what is the next thing they are developing yet, it could be this new dodge questionnaire! Who knows.

All i'm saying is just give ranked a vote to remake. If somebody gets supp and posts the every present "mid or feed" picks Zed and locks in then you click the little "remake" button in the corner, a vote prompt goes up, if the vote is successful you get to pick to be placed back into queue or taken out of it (automatically taken out if no answer is given)

A few things we need to understand about Riot's stance on trolling:

  • There is no such thing as troll picking. Any champ can be played in any role. It may not be an effective strategy, but Riot allows players to experiment with different strategies.
  • So long as people are trying to win, they are not trolling
  • Supports are allowed to CS. No-CS support is a META (Most Effective Tactic Available), and not adhering to the META is not a punishable offense. Same goes for a double mid or double jungle strategy.

Of course, I'm not saying that the attitude of threatening others to loose a game or dodge is acceptable, the act of trolling can only be proven if they decide to get ingame and really troll.

While your idea is pretty cool, it's hell to program. First they would need to have the client.exe to communicate with the game.exe, then they would need a language database, and people will try to get around it with different wordings and it'll be a never ending cycle of updating words into the database. You'd also need to avoid cases people abusing it. It's not impossible to make, but just dam hard.

Yeah but having 1 game with a bad player experience can ruin the rest of your day playing. Some people become toxic because they had a bad game with a troll and start losing the game right after. I don't understand what the issue would be with removing the option to play with someone like that all together.

For now, tilt is something people have to manage internally. While Riot is working to improve the behavioral systems, there will always be things that others can do / say to tilt others before the game.

I do agree that such behavior is not acceptable and some action should be taken. But it takes time to develop these new features. So for now, we can only wait patiently.

o brigid o1 votes

######I just want to say that I really appreciate your responses in this thread. Have all my upvotes.

Asterfix1 votes

{quoted}

At the time of the nexus post, the behavioral team was working on the now honor system which was released in Aug-2017. They haven't announced what is the next thing they are developing yet, it could be this new dodge questionnaire! Who knows.

A few things we need to understand about Riot's stance on trolling:

  • There is no such thing as troll picking. Any champ can be played in any role. It may not be an effective strategy, but Riot allows players to experiment with different strategies.
  • So long as people are trying to win, they are not trolling
  • Supports are allowed to CS. No-CS support is a META (Most Effective Tactic Available), and not adhering to the META is not a punishable offense. Same goes for a double mid or double jungle strategy.

Of course, I'm not saying that the attitude of threatening others to loose a game or dodge is acceptable, the act of trolling can only be proven if they decide to get ingame and really troll.

While your idea is pretty cool, it's hell to program. First they would need to have the client.exe to communicate with the game.exe, then they would need a language database, and people will try to get around it with different wordings and it'll be a never ending cycle of updating words into the database. You'd also need to avoid cases people abusing it. It's not impossible to make, but just dam hard.

For now, tilt is something people have to manage internally. While Riot is working to improve the behavioral systems, there will always be things that others can do / say to tilt others before the game.

I do agree that such behavior is not acceptable and some action should be taken. But it takes time to develop these new features. So for now, we can only wait patiently.

There's no abusing a vote to remake system. Nobody gets punished they get removed from the lobby. I understand that there's meta breaking builds out there but this is not a system to punish those people. This is an insurance padding against "mid or feed" players or "you banned my champ so i'm gonna feed" players. Or. my absolute fave "i can't support" and they pick a champ and go duo top.

But yeah, the issue is that they haven't said a single thing about it. Even if it takes 3 years to develop they could put out there "oh hey we're working on this thing for toxic players in the lobby" and explain what they want it to do.

Umbral Regent2 votes

There's no abusing a vote to remake system.

What if a premade decides they want to disband a Champ Select because they don't like what the one random player picked? What if a bunch of people who strictly adhere to the meta and brand everyone who doesn't a troll see someone with an off-meta pick, and decide to force them to suffer longer queue times?

Honestly, the idea of increasing the queue times for any reason (disbanding the group and starting a new queue) seems generally antithetical to Riot's policy towards queue-based changes. They've stated several times that the first goal they have is to get players into a match ASAP - it was the driving idea behind autofill and some other changes.

Asterfix1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Umbral Regent,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=wtEtPu60,comment-id=0001000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2018-03-17T03:56:04.183+0000)

What if a premade decides they want to disband a Champ Select because they don't like what the one random player picked? What if a bunch of people who strictly adhere to the meta and brand everyone who doesn't a troll see someone with an off-meta pick, and decide to force them to suffer longer queue times?

Honestly, the idea of increasing the queue times for any reason (disbanding the group and starting a new queue) seems generally antithetical to Riot's policy towards queue-based changes. They've stated several times that the first goal they have is to get players into a match ASAP - it was the driving idea behind autofill and some other changes.

that's why this should just be a ranked decision. I would much rather wait an extra 2 minutes that 20 minutes which also nets me a loss.

Awf Meta1 votes

Take a screen shot and make a support ticket.

Will they get punished? Don't know. Riot won't tell you either.

HalcyonDweller2 votes

It doesn't matter if they don't tell us, the purpose of the punishment system is to get rid of toxic players, not to stroke our egos when we get toxic players punished.

Awf Meta1 votes

Was meant as a general statement.

As in, I'm not sure a screen shot of "role stealing" is enough for Riot to issue a punishment.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

Ah, potentially yeah. But it might be enough to trigger an investigation, which could lead to discovering more cases of the behavior that result in the player being deemed punishable.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

I feel for you OP, that's a terrible situation and I'm with you that it should be reportable without having to play the game out.

Best you can do for now is screenshot it and submit a support ticket, they will investigate the player.

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