@Riotlyte Trolls abuse the punishment system on Twisted Treeline. Clear my name.

Wimptastic··5 votes·2,611 views

I was in two consecutive games with trolls on Twisted Treeline, and I got chat restricted AUTOMATICALLY, because, in the first game, the troll lied to the enemies to make them report me, and in the second game, my allies refused to play cooperatively and decided to just troll, and they ganged up on me in ALL chat because they were mutually disgruntled about me trying to co-shove their lanes to pressure the map. In other words, they were too stupid to stabilize their lanes, pressure when the enemy roamed, and watch the map to help allies, so I helped, and they decided to be little babies and report me and incite reports from enemies. And naturally, the other team in both of these situations are too stupid to realize they are being lied to. I have screenshots of the games in question. And of course you don't bother to give anyone full chat logs, because that would be TOO convenient to actually prove that you're innocent. (No, RIOT doesn't want to be bothered, when their pristine behavior modification software is full of holes.)

Screenshots of the OP.GG matches are attached. I was too busy trying to win in game that I didn't take screenshots of the chats in game; and I was too frustrated after game to think clearly, so I didn't think to get screenshots of the post-game lobbies where the players from these games continued to lie like hell. I trust that RIOT has some records of these.

Game 1:

This idiot, [NAME REMOVED BY MODERATION - ULANOPO], on Pyke, asked to jungle in champion select. I GAVE him jungle to be nice. I saw no problem with it. He gets in game. We are doing fine. He dies to a jungle camp. I don't see this. I realize a little later that he has been AFK in fountain, and not just basing for items, after the game says he has left. I ask my ally Teemo why he's AFK. He says that Pyke died to a jungle camp. I think "that's a petty reason to quit. Whatever, I'm going to play for fun." So I just play the game. I try to /remake, but it doesn't work, because Pyke was there when the game loaded (the game's reasoning is dumb). So then this Pyke comes back several minutes later. He proceeds to gripe about something then run straight down the lanes to feed enemies. He does this 2 or 3 times. I am playing the game, not watching chat. He gets sick of being a feeder, so he goes back to farm jungle. I know Pyke is terrible at killing jungle camps, so I LEASH for this ass jungler multiple times, giving him fast clear times and shields with the expectation that he will stay in the game, slowly farm up, and pressure the map, intercept ganks, protect allies, and clear waves for XP to prevent enemy roams to the opposite lane. What does he do? He gets mad that I help him. Then he gets mad that I clear my waves so that we are free to poke and gank! He gets mad because he picks stupid 3 on 3 fights and nobody backs him up against fed enemies. He refuses to follow up on easy plays when allies take initiative and engage on fights with numbers advantages, condemning his allies to die. He wanders around the map, periodically going AFK. He tries to surrender multiple times. And I was unaware of his asshole behavior, until just about the end of the game, when I look at chat and see this asshole telling lies in ALL chat and telling the enemies to report me. I try to defend myself by pointing out all of the things he did, in ALL chat, pointing to the facts that the enemies can verify, and not hearsay: that he has AFK'd, left, fed, bitched about positive things, trolled allies, lied in all chat repeatedly, and tried to surrender multiple times, and I concluded with VERY CLEARLY saying that assholes like him do not belong in League. This is true. He did EVERYTHING on the report menu except give himself an offensive summoner name.

After the game, in the lobby chat, what do I see???? An enemy says "OK we reported Lee Sin." Fucking what??? The Teemo gave me Honors that game. You have replays. Download them. Watch. I did nothing wrong that game and typed about 5 things all game, 3 of which were defending myself in ALL chat, the other 2 were item recommendations and the question about why the troll left the game.

I reported the idiot. One or two games later, I got a notification saying "A summoner" had been punished by instant feedback. His report and any reports from enemies that game have NO BUSINESS being on my record and should not influence my ability to chat! RIOT needs to get rid of this stupid reporting system. It is extremely easy to abuse! I've been saying this since the first day you came out with the idiotic Tribunal. GET RID OF REPORTING. If there is a truly bad person in the game, people will go through the trouble of reporting them on here with EVIDENCE. Automated systems cannot evaluate EVIDENCE. They are statistical and can be poisoned with bad data, because people's votes can be manipulated! RIOT should be very aware of this after the Russians meddled in the USA elections to influence the vote in Trump's favor! Not only this, but you have to watch the replays to KNOW who's lying and who isn't. After growing up, you all should have realized how easy it is to lie to get people to do something that is wrong. RIOT must admit the folly of their ways! They are lying to us and themselves, just as much as these trolls in game lied to the enemies, as RIOT believes that their system is flawless and not exploitable.

Game 2:

I was the Jarvan IV. There was a lot more that happened in this game. It started off fine and cooperative. The Kalista bonded with me. I did jungle camps. I don't remember many details from this game, but the game turned nasty really quickly. The Kalista refused to play cooperatively, and the Twisted Fate would do the same. TF was always getting shoved in or dying 1 v 1 while overextended, so I would cover his lane, and he'd get angry because I tried to protect tower while Kalista was AFK farming bottom. So naturally I took some damage to save tower since the enemies were free to gang up on me, and they were free to invade my jungle non-stop because my laners were refusing to help. Specific examples:

Example 1: I gank the TF's top lane with an easy gank. TF has already outtraded the enemy Garen. Garen is 300 health. I come around and ping very adamantly that I am ganking. TF is still attacking the enemy. I come around the enemy jungle's middle wall, and the TF just walks off. He was going to win the 1 v 1 at ~level 4, so I came in to lock down Garen so it was an easy kill. But no, the idiot walks off, then walks back toward Garen for a second as though he's going to follow up, then walks off again. I finish my combo but we do not get the kill, because the TF has no brain. This idiot TF then proceeds to complain FOR THE REST OF THE GAME that he lost lane because of me. He wasted my time, he fucked up his easy 1 v 1 win, and he never shoved his lane to roam, so what did he expect????

Example 2: I was farming the wraith jungle camp that is far away from enemies (on left side of the map), and an enemy invaded. The tier 1 tower is gone from bottom. The Kalista is sitting a couple feet away next to her tower, in range to save me with her ult or follow up. The enemy trades. I have almost a kill. The Kalista just stands there and watches. Doesn't bother to shove lane, doesn't bother to ult to save me, doesn't bother to walk two feet to help kill enemies.

So, after these two idiots repeatedly refuse to follow up on easy kills and make common-sense decisions about shoving and roaming and responding to jungle invades, which were easy opportunities to relieve enemy pressure, they proceed to lambast me in ALL chat, as though I am the problem, instead of their habitual feeding and refusal to help or play cooperatively. And it shows. Their scores have 0 assists. The kills they got were entirely due to ill-advised turret dives from the enemies. They never once won their lanes, and the one time TF had the chance to do so, he ignored the free opportunity to win that I provided him with. And both of them used the rest of the time in game to just lie about me in ALL chat. And of course the enemies are going to believe their lies. It's a simple numbers game. People are all too willing to believe a majority that lies.

Twisted Treeline is FAR WORSE than Summoner Rift, because there is sampling bias in the data, and it is easier to poison that data by lying to enemies. The rules that RIOT's ban system was designed with are meant for Summoner's Rift, where the chance of people ganging up is less likely and should not be applied verbatim to Twisted Treeline.

Once again, you have FULL chat logs and replays. Check these games. I did nothing wrong in these and received an instant chat restriction for merely defending myself and having shitty allies who didn't bother to play cooperatively.

I can deal with complete jackasses ruining my game, as long as the next game is not with the same jackass, but I can't deal with being punished for a crime I did not commit. There is a saying in the US legal system that it is far worse for an innocent man to be punished than it is for a guilty man to be set free. In real life, this is not so clear cut, but in this online setting where the punishments of an innocent far outweigh the potential problems of allowing a guilty person to go, there is a VERY CLEAR answer. Delete the banning system. It is too easy to abuse! And restore my reputation. Taking it away from me due to automatic respect for another's lies is a lowbrow thing to do. Innocent players should not have to make their case here. That is a waste of my time and effort to have to compensate for RIOT's stupid statistical system. Make a more intelligent system for banning. This is absolutely inexcusable!

26 Comments

Aneirin4 votes

Firstly, Lyte hasn't worked for Riot for ages. Secondly, reports do nothing if they're not valid - so unless you do something punishable it doesn't matter if people report you, so there's no need to "defend yourself". Thirdly, you'll need to provide the chat logs if you want anyone to take your side - but even then we don't have any power to overturn your punishment; you'd need to make a support ticket and talk to Riot for that.

Great Prosdokian1 votes

[deleted]

Aneirin2 votes

Reports DO do something. Their automatic ban system is an algorithm that responds to statistical anomalies, not a human. You are misinformed.

No, I'm not. If he doesn't do anything that deserves punishment then it doesn't matter if he gets reported. If you get reported falsely 50 games in a row nothing would happen to you.

From Riot Tantrum: "There has to be negative or zero tolerance chat present for be penalized for a chat related offense."

If he does something punishable and gets reported then of course it does something.

ModUlanopo3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Great Prosdokian,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=wglEZWaI,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-06-26T22:48:30.959+0000)

That's rather a lot to unpack:

Firstly, I don't keep up with the Kardashians of RIOT's team.

You cared enough to call out a specific (ex) Rioter by name, so let's keep that in mind, hmmm? If you're going to attempt the argument that the IFS sucks, it helps to avoid things that are easily disproved. You're making it personal when it doesn't have to be.

Secondly, You don't read do you?

You should avoid ad hominems like this, as well. Again, making it personal isn't especially helpful.

Reports DO do something. Their automatic ban system is an algorithm that responds to statistical anomalies, not a human. You are misinformed.

That's not how the IFS works at all. The IFS responds to reports by scanning the chats (it was recently expanded to include pre- and post-game) for toxicity. It was based on the behavioral data from the old Tribunal, but also uses machine learning to add new definitions and modify the weights.

Thirdly, I am not given CHAT LOGS. I am given a thing that shows only my chats, OUT OF CONTEXT, and does not qualify as a chat log. It is RIOT's responsibility to investigate. NOT MINE.

You are given your chat logs. That the chat of others is not included does not make them stop being chat logs.

Moreover, it's entirely appropriate for Riot to do so, as you are judged solely on your behavior. There isn't a justification for adding to toxicity.

Wimptastic1 votes

Firstly, I don't keep up with the Kardashians of RIOT's team.

Secondly, You don't read do you? Reports DO do something. Their automatic ban system is an algorithm that responds to statistical anomalies, not a human. You are misinformed. Do you REALLY think that someone is sitting in a room looking at all these reports pop up on screen and clicking Chat Restriction/No Chat Restriction? What kind of idealistic world do you think you live in?

Thirdly, I am not given CHAT LOGS. I am given a thing that shows only my chats, OUT OF CONTEXT, excluding anyone else's chats, and does not indicate if anything was said in ALL chat or team chat, and this does not qualify as a chat log. It is RIOT's responsibility to investigate. NOT MINE. And it seems you DID NOT READ, once again, because the problem IS THE BAN SYSTEM, not my specific case.

Aneirin6 votes

Wow, you're using two accounts to argue for yourself? Smooth.

The reason you're only given your own chat logs is that they're the only ones that matter. There's no "but they started it" defense. You're responsible for your own actions.

I do read, but I'm not going to any longer as you're obviously not here to discuss, just to vent at Riot. Peace.

DrCyanide2 votes

There's likely a third account, given how quickly this post hit +3. But yeah, same exact reply from two different accounts means there's at least 2.

ModPeriscope3 votes

I think you're misreading what Aneirin is saying:

reports do nothing if they're not valid

If you're not doing negative things, reports against you don't count nor do they contribute to a punishment.

There is no reason to provide anyone else's chat logs. You typed what you did, and are thus responsible for such. Others aren't held responsible for your chat.

fuzzybunny001 votes

{quoted}

I think you're misreading what Aneirin is saying:

If you're not doing negative things, reports against you don't count nor do they contribute to a punishment.

There is no reason to provide anyone else's chat logs. You typed what you did, and are thus responsible for such. Others aren't held responsible for your chat.

Unfortunately this is false. False reports do negatively impact honest players.

fuzzybunny001 votes

Thank you. I did not realize that 4 months is considered an old thread now. My other comment was deleted, much more aggressively.

ModUlanopo1 votes

Hey guys, I have disabled voting on this thread because sock puppets and vote brigading are not okay.

https://imgur.com/7loU2FU

If you have questions or concerns about this action please visit us in the Moderation Discord here.

~ Ulanopo

Imperial Pandaa1 votes

How do you all determine if something is being legitimately voted on or vote brigaded? I know it is off topic, but am curious since not first instance of seeing this.

ModUlanopo1 votes

Unfortunately, that is something we cannot discuss.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

Getting ganged up on and reported doesn't affect the likelihood or severity of you being punished. Reports are like flicking on a light switch labeled "review this player's behavior this game." It only takes one report to flick that switch on, any other reports in addition to the first don't increase the speed or likelihood of a punishment.

Additionally, the system doesn't just punish you because you get reported. The reports don't weigh into the judgement. If you did things the system considers punishable, it punishes you. If you didn't, then it throws out the false reports and lets you carry on your merry way. False reports rarely - if ever - do anything.

Unstoppable Monk1 votes

{quoted}

Getting ganged up on and reported doesn't affect the likelihood or severity of you being punished. Reports are like flicking on a light switch labeled "review this player's behavior this game." It only takes one report to flick that switch on, any other reports in addition to the first don't increase the speed or likelihood of a punishment.

Additionally, the system doesn't just punish you because you get reported. The reports don't weigh into the judgement. If you did things the system considers punishable, it punishes you. If you didn't, then it throws out the false reports and lets you carry on your merry way. False reports rarely - if ever - do anything.

That's an outright lie. The game toxic premades in a row that brigade with other people make an outlier that gives you more reports a game from other players that listen to them. This is actually a common occurrence in season 8 now. Automated punishments happen if there's a spike in activity if you have a lot of false reports and any mildly negative context in chatting, even if instructional you'll get honor dropped by toxic players. All my chat ban taught me is that rito tweaked things to spank typical junglers and that new players aren't worth helping explain things anymore with what they are doing wrong, because they will report you. So yeah, luck is a factor. My recommendation for people encountering these players in queue, is to NOT QUEUE for a while. The fact that this is not really written down, is a bit of a burden.

I'm trying to be a better player, with higher honor goals so I'm hardly -actually- toxic, or at least not even close to the shifted oversensitive goalpost part of it. The punishment just shows me how much of a negative tyranny-of-majority the low elo environment in league has become. And its annoying when I'm trying to play something different and people crying troll over a literally meta pick like Taliyah JG.

When people can't express negative emotions in a proper manner it is actually unhealthy from a psychological perspective and quite honestly it will lead to a further negative environment. It is better at some point to focus on the positive reinforcement and quite honestly cut whatever this S8 trend phenomenon out. It might have more salt in games in season 8, but that will just make season 9's new honor systems look better (although I think it will only solve 1/2 the problems in ranked, afaik--- but solving half is a miracle in itself).

HalcyonDweller1 votes

Nothing I said in my previous comment was false.

  1. Reports don't stack. This has been confirmed by Riot.

  2. False reports are thrown out. This also has been confirmed by Riot.

Just because you can't figure out why you may have been punished or prevented from climbing honor, does not mean it is safe to assume that it was because of false reports.

Unstoppable Monk1 votes

{quoted}

Nothing I said in my previous comment was false.

  1. Reports don't stack. This has been confirmed by Riot.

  2. False reports are thrown out. This also has been confirmed by Riot.

Just because you can't figure out why you may have been punished or prevented from climbing honor, does not mean it is safe to assume that it was because of false reports.

Several people have noticed certain consistent factors and it is very real considering these people haven't been punished before. But thanks for labeling everything as likely toxic as status quo. That kind of denial is part of the problem.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Unstoppable Monk,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=wglEZWaI,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2018-06-27T03:10:52.160+0000)

Several people have noticed certain consistent factors and it is very real considering these people haven't been punished before. But thanks for labeling everything as likely toxic as status quo. That kind of denial is part of the problem.

Explain your point or bug off. Don't wave lofty statements over my head.

"labeling everything as likely toxic as status quo"

  1. Umm, what? "as ____ as ____" - that sentence made no sense.

  2. I did no such thing. I asserted that false reports are thrown out. That is the closest I came to making any sort of assertion at all similar to what you seem to be saying there.

Kei1431 votes

So ... chatlogs? Else it didn't happen.

Unstoppable Monk1 votes

[sg-lux-2]

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