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What is "trolling"?

SirLime··24 votes·3,310 views

I've had legitimate troll supports who didn't buy Sightstone and this guy's not it. Not buying SS isn't itself trolling and neither is taking Smite. Remember when toplaners all took Challenging Smite? The issue is when you do this with the intention of ruining the game or just not trying at all. If you have some silly strategy for it and it works decently for you, that's fine. Hell, I think it's way more troll to randomly MF support for the first time after a pro game and without any of the conditions which made it a viable pick.

This guy clearly was trying or he'd be Bronze and wouldn't have a positive winrate. He's just playing a suboptimal (and unconventional) strategy. Proxy Singed used to actually be strong but I remember people getting reported then as well even though they were abusing the bounty system. If a very off-meta Singed support is enough for a ban, we can just report anyone picking Urgot or the reworked assassins. The reworked assassins made mage winrates jump by nearly 4%. Even Ziggs has a good winrate despite being trash tier vs standard mids like Ahri, Viktor, Vel'Koz, Anivia etc. Most of their winrates are in the low 40s and it's clearly suboptimal to pick them unless you're just amazing on their new kits. However, I don't think anyone's suggesting people should be banned for picking such champions even if it huts the team's chances.

I don't want that Singed support on my team but I don't want him banned either. The only way I see a case is if he just randomly played Singed support and threw the games for his team (for example, a Platinum player dropping to Silver doing this). This guy has a very high number of games on Singed. He's ranked where he belongs and that means that while Singed support played this way isn't likely to be viable at higher ELO, he performs like any other player in his ELO range. He's not creating a massive disadvantage for his team or perhaps more accurately, his understanding of the champion and strategy negate the inherent disadvantage.

This just proves that Riot's system is influenced too much by report frequency instead of actual evidence and evaluation of the facts. He should never have gotten ANY punishment for this. It's ridiculous that this wasn't flagged as false reports before escalating further. The support staff needs better training if they think this is legitimate just because the majority of people doing this are trolls. That's a bit like how racial profiling works. You may be of a certain color and in a certain part of the neighborhood so now you're automatically considered a bad guy even if you did nothing wrong.

You can be innocent but if you get reported a lot by crybabies or oversensitive victim types who can't even take respectful constructive criticism, you're out of luck. It's mob rule with no judge or jury, just an executioner. I've seen the same nonsense for supposedly "toxic" behavior.

79 Comments

Deep Terror Nami14 votes

This just proves that Riot's system is influenced too much by report frequency

No, they actually gave it considerable special attention. This was not a punishment by the automated Instant Feedback System.

Was this really "trolling"?

Nobody said he was trolling, and that's not what his ban was for. He was banned for refusing to cooperate with his team and not playing the role he queued up for, causing much strife on his own team for hundreds or thousands of other players by sabotaging their efforts with his own incompatible agenda (such as leaving his ADC in a 1v2 and counter jungling the team's jungler).

I highly recommend you read this post and the Riot responses to get an idea of what really happened and why he was punished for it; http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/79aGu3wR-support-singed-isnt-banable-but-thats-not-the-point

EazyMakaveli28 votes

but that logic is retarded. so if my 4 teammates want me to play fucking ezreal, i am obligated to play him just because my team wants me to? Remember that this singed reached plat which is fucking better than 90% of all league players. From now on i will report every single Janna player in my games because i dont like Janna support and according to Riot i would be right. fuck off

Deep Terror Nami6 votes

Doesn't sound like you've bothered to take the time to understand the situation at all.

EazyMakaveli24 votes

what i describe is exactly what is said in the link you posted. It means you cannot play what you want if your team doesnt want to.

Elite4Runner5 votes

{quoted}

what i describe is exactly what is said in the link you posted. It means you cannot play what you want if your team doesnt want to.

It means you can't throw an absolute curveball at your team in the middle of a ranked match and not be willing to even consider their requests for a more conventional strategy.

LordGeovanni4 votes

not even if you know this curve ball gets better results stop trying what you know is working so other guys can feel better about themselves

Elite4Runner4 votes

{quoted}

not even if you know this curve ball gets better results stop trying what you know is working so other guys can feel better about themselves

How does this sound?

Lets say I'm an ADC main, but going to cue up for a ranked match as a support.

You know, because, the cue time is lower

Now, I know that I'm a good ADC.

I'm pretty confident that I will be better than whoever actually gets drafted as our ADC, so it is in our team's best interest to let me be the ADC.

I'm going to TELL my team that I am going to pick a meta ADC and take all of the cs from the bottom lane.

Do you think that at least one of them may have some objections?

You think maybe the person who cued up for ADC?

But no worries, I am good and we win, so nobody has any reason to report me, ...

Right?

MtnDewsh2 votes

{quoted}

How does this sound?

Lets say I'm an ADC main, but going to cue up for a ranked match as a support.

You know, because, the cue time is lower

Now, I know that I'm a good ADC.

I'm pretty confident that I will be better than whoever actually gets drafted as our ADC, so it is in our team's best interest to let me be the ADC.

I'm going to TELL my team that I am going to pick a meta ADC and take all of the cs from the bottom lane.

Do you think that at least one of them may have some objections?

You think maybe the person who cued up for ADC?

But no worries, I am good and we win, so nobody has any reason to report me, ...

Right?

In this situation, youre going to have 2 players that will be behind in cs, you and the ADC (assuming the person who actually queued as ADC still chooses an ADC). Neither of you will ever match the damage of the enemy ADC and bottom lane will be constantly playing from behind.

Where the singed support player was putting the enemy jungler behind and roaming for ganks. The only player that could potentially get behind is the ADC that is bot lane alone while the roams are taking place. That could be from tower dives, being out of position, or just not farming safely (which is common sense when your support is roaming). Support is not meant to only help the ADC, whether it be early game or late game.

Odinakos2 votes

Hey, i am a gold V support that can make your solo adc life a living hell. Also i roam a lot. So i know the situation from both ends. So lets break down the options of the adc A) contest cs. Wont go well because for every deam cs he is gonna take at least one AA in return. 2 waves in he is gonna retreat because he is prone to giving kill at the impending fight. Lvl 2 is only 2 melee difference (solo vs duo) so he wont either be able to abuse that. Also get shoved son. B) farm at tower. Either we freeze and he gets gold&xp denied or we hardpush for first tower and rotation(that also denies cs). Or easy dive. C) Abandon bot lane. Free lane yooohooo! See any situation the solo adc is gonna have a good laning phase? You can check his videos to see. Quote from him "Jinx 3 cs pfff" after leaving her alone for 2 waves. And the higher you go in divisions the worse the abuse is gonna be. So no, his adc is not gonna just potential fall behind, he is gonna fall behind so far that it would be better to build SS and support items to be relevant.

LordGeovanni1 votes

the guy in question how ever didnt que as a support to be an adc or any other role he just did what he could to put the enemy jungle behind then he went bot if he couldnt put another lane behind after which he would also go bot. your point isnt relevant because he wasnt fighting his allies for the same resorces but rather takeing resources from the enemy

Elite4Runner3 votes

{quoted}

the guy in question how ever didnt que as a support to be an adc or any other role he just did what he could to put the enemy jungle behind then he went bot if he couldnt put another lane behind after which he would also go bot. your point isnt relevant because he wasnt fighting his allies for the same resorces but rather takeing resources from the enemy

Yes of course, what I said is not exactly what he did so it is completely irrelevant. Because analogys never means anything.

...

The fact that someone isn't fighting against their allies does not mean that they are helping them.

If I were to never leave the fountain I would not be fighting against my team, but I'm not helping them.

If I AFK farmed jungle THE ENTIRE GAME, I am not fighting against my team, but I am not helping them.

But silly me, I'm using analogies again, ...

As a support, his role is not to put the enemy jungler behind, however, that is not to say that is not to say that he can not do that. The problem here is that he is making the decision to do this on his own despite his team telling him not to. If he were to communicate with his team that he is wanting to do that, which he did, and they agree, which they did NOT, then there is no problem.

So again, he alienates his teammates for a strategy that he believes will be successful.

Successful or not, that is behavior that Riot will rightfully discourage.

LordGeovanni3 votes

Your analogy has no similarities between the 2. one takes over another role and one just doesnt play like people expect. you know what else people didnt agree with before lcs did it support natalius i wona bot 60% of my support nautilus games and would have won more if people didnt tilt themselves and could hold their shit together because they didnt see something they normally see

Elite4Runner3 votes

{quoted}

Your analogy has no similarities between the 2. one takes over another role and one just doesnt play like people expect. you know what else people didnt agree with before lcs did it support natalius i wona bot 60% of my support nautilus games and would have won more if people didnt tilt themselves and could hold their shit together because they didnt see something they normally see

That's because you continue to focus on the actions instead of how those actions impact the players.

And it also seems like you are only reading my responses so that you can respond to them instead of reading to understand.

There is nothing wrong with taking Singed as a support. There isn't even anything wrong with the strategy he used. It clearly works, .. at a cost, but that can be worked with.

What IS wrong is, (and I've said this so much over the last two days that in can't even remember if I'm repeating myself to you specifically or not. Pretty sure I have said it to you already) the fact that he is forcing his strategy on his team.

atomicwit3 votes

{quoted}

That's because you continue to focus on the actions instead of how those actions impact the players.

And it also seems like you are only reading my responses so that you can respond to them instead of reading to understand.

There is nothing wrong with taking Singed as a support. There isn't even anything wrong with the strategy he used. It clearly works, .. at a cost, but that can be worked with.

What IS wrong is, (and I've said this so much over the last two days that in can't even remember if I'm repeating myself to you specifically or not. Pretty sure I have said it to you already) the fact that he is forcing his strategy on his team.

Repeating an incorrect point doesn't make it right. That point has already been refuted.

Elite4Runner1 votes

{quoted}

Repeating an incorrect point doesn't make it right. That point has already been refuted.

The fact that you say that my point is incorrect doesn't make it incorrect.

Technically, even the fact that Riot even agrees doesn't make me correct either, but it really really helps!

In fact, i'm going to quote a large portion of a Riot Gromp's comment on this to support my claim. Feel free to read the whole comment here

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/79aGu3wR-support-singed-isnt-banable-but-thats-not-the-point?show=flat&comment=006b

Q: Do unconventional picks/strategies increase the burden of communications for the player and their teammates? Y: Yes.

If you're gonna throw a curveball at teammates, you also need to communicate your intentions to teammates. You shouldn’t just expect everyone to "get it", so tell them what's up. To be clear, this player does attempt to communicate intent and strategy, but a good chunk of teammates across hundreds of games just don’t want to sign up for the plan. That lack of agreement on the new plan makes for a pretty chaotic game and leads to a huge share of this player’s reports. If a teammate in champ select says, “pls no, this is game 5 of promos”, maybe stick with something conventional and skip tilting your teammates off the face of the earth. In short, argue for your idea, but stay ready to be flexible.

In the same vein, teammates should be willing give unconventional picks/strategies a fair shot. They could surprise your opponents more than they surprise you. We need to leave plenty of space for experimentation in League (Hi Support MF), even if it sometimes leaves us in less than perfectly comfy games.

If you're about to play stunbot Twisted Fate tank support with Talisman, Righteous Glory, and Protobelt, let your team know the special kind of hell you're aiming to create for your enemies, and how they should adjust their expectations and approach to the game. If, instead of that, you wholly fail to communicate, or completely disrupt game after game, it makes sense that you’d rack up a ton of reports, net manual reviews and even potential penalties from Player Support.

The net result is that players, if playing to win, have a fundamental right to experiment in League. It’s good for the game. At the same time, common sense and good sportsmanship say that experimenting players need to clearly communicate intent and win conditions to their teammates.

I highlighted some key portions in bold for you.

LordGeovanni2 votes

all that says is that 'he is right but we are still gonna punish you because people keep bothering us.'

ofart1 votes

{quoted}

all that says is that 'he is right but we are still gonna punish you because people keep bothering us.'

pretty much

you arent trying to understand. you cant control what people are offended by and them being offended by it doesnt make it right

truer words were never spoken

ofart2 votes

{quoted}

That's because you continue to focus on the actions instead of how those actions impact the players.

And it also seems like you are only reading my responses so that you can respond to them instead of reading to understand.

There is nothing wrong with taking Singed as a support. There isn't even anything wrong with the strategy he used. It clearly works, .. at a cost, but that can be worked with.

What IS wrong is, (and I've said this so much over the last two days that in can't even remember if I'm repeating myself to you specifically or not. Pretty sure I have said it to you already) the fact that he is forcing his strategy on his team.

So playing off-meta now means you're bullying others into a different strategy? This is nothing more than an avoidance of the issue with a fancy rationalization. You could use this argument for almost anything you disagree with. I pick a poke mid and it means I'm "forcing" our team to avoid all-ins and have a different game than they may have planned. I pick a scaling jungler and maybe that means I'm "forcing" my team to play safe.

Yes, believe it or not, unconventional picks tend to require more adaptation from both teams. Let's not pretend that's a bad thing. If that's the argument for punishing someone, you can't in the same breath say that you're not punishing for playing off-meta. That would be like firing someone who has a cold and when asked saying that it's not because they were sick. It's because they sneezed.

Elite4Runner1 votes

{quoted}

So playing off-meta now means you're bullying others into a different strategy? This is nothing more than an avoidance of the issue with a fancy rationalization. You could use this argument for almost anything you disagree with. I pick a poke mid and it means I'm "forcing" our team to avoid all-ins and have a different game than they may have planned. I pick a scaling jungler and maybe that means I'm "forcing" my team to play safe.

Yes, believe it or not, unconventional picks tend to require more adaptation from both teams. Let's not pretend that's a bad thing. If that's the argument for punishing someone, you can't in the same breath say that you're not punishing for playing off-meta. That would be like firing someone who has a cold and when asked saying that it's not because they were sick. It's because they sneezed.

Wow, and you say that I made bad analogies.

Poke champions work still well with engage comps, so that is just stupid. Now if you had reversed it, you would have a better analogy. (and yes, I would say that it would be reportable to have an Alistar consistently dive in on bunch of full health enemy champions when his teammates do not have the damage available to secure a kill, and ultimately got killed as a result.)

The scaling jungler one is a tad better because it would force the laners to not expect strong ganks and counter ganks, .. but laners are really meant to be able to win their lane without the jungler, ... so, close, but no dice.

And once again you came back to the perpetually false argument that any of this had anything to do with what specific champion he picked.

I honestly wish there were some way that I could "say" this slowly for you so you will understand, but you read at your own pace so try sounding it out this time.

His failure to communicate, organize, compromise, and execute a strategy WITH his team was the problem. His teammates clearly were not willing to elect him the team captain, so he needs to come to an agreement WITH them, in order to avoid reports.

And to reiterate, being reported is not inherently worthy of punishment. Creating mass chaos damn near every time you set foot on the rift definitely could be.

And your getting fired over a cold analogy ... lol.

ofart3 votes

{quoted}

Wow, and you say that I made bad analogies.

Poke champions work still well with engage comps, so that is just stupid. Now if you had reversed it, you would have a better analogy. (and yes, I would say that it would be reportable to have an Alistar consistently dive in on bunch of full health enemy champions when his teammates do not have the damage available to secure a kill, and ultimately got killed as a result.)

The scaling jungler one is a tad better because it would force the laners to not expect strong ganks and counter ganks, .. but laners are really meant to be able to win their lane without the jungler, ... so, close, but no dice.

And once again you came back to the perpetually false argument that any of this had anything to do with what specific champion he picked.

I honestly wish there were some way that I could "say" this slowly for you so you will understand, but you read at your own pace so try sounding it out this time.

His failure to communicate, organize, compromise, and execute a strategy WITH his team was the problem. His teammates clearly were not willing to elect him the team captain, so he needs to come to an agreement WITH them, in order to avoid reports.

And to reiterate, being reported is not inherently worthy of punishment. Creating mass chaos damn near every time you set foot on the rift definitely could be.

And your getting fired over a cold analogy ... lol.

Champions like Annie will outperform nearly any poke champion in a full-on all-in. Poke champions by definition function worse in engage situations and the point is obvious enough even if you disagree with the analogy. What I listed is less extreme than his behavior but the idea is that nearly anything you pick or do somehow influences your team and they may not all be on-board.

Analogies aren't supposed to completely match reality and suggesting that they're wrong if they don't is silly. Your analogy about Alistar is also absurd. Bad judgment isn't reportable and if that Alistar is in your games, it's pretty obvious your MMR is shit so you need to evaluate your own play most of all.

Everyone tries to adapt to the situation as best as they can. The guy certainly wasn't forcing anything. It's just that you should make some basic adjustments to give his strategy the best chance of success. Clearly, this wasn't such an incredible demand since he maintained a high Gold to low Plat ranking and a good winrate. Adaptation should happen to every strategy not just to Singed support. The teams refusing to do so are trolling more than this Singed player ever did.

Not agreeing with you doesn't mean I don't understand and flaming me for it won't change my opinion. All it does is show mental weakness. You're just completely wrong on this and need to reread many of the posts in this thread. You're saying that his pick and off-meta strategy wasn't the problem but then giving the inevitable consequences as the issue with it. You can't have it both ways. That's like saying firing a loaded gun with it pointed at someone's head isn't the problem but the bullet going through their brain is. It's really disingenuous to say he didn't communicate or didn't work with the team just because he had a similar level 1 strategy most games and an unconventional setup. In fact, if he went Smite/Singed support without trying to mess with the enemy jungler, I'm sure his results would be worse.

atomicwit2 votes

{quoted}

http://rs224.pbsrc.com/albums/dd172/2007gary/head_banging.gif~c200

I'm out!

That's what I want to do when I read your posts.

LordGeovanni2 votes

you arent trying to understand. you cant control what people are offended by and them being offended by it doesnt make it right

YourQQ2 votes

{quoted}

you arent trying to understand. you cant control what people are offended by and them being offended by it doesnt make it right

Exactly and in fact, you can say the most innocent thing and have it be taken out of context. Hasn't anyone learned anything from the 5 second sound bites in the media over the last decade? It will always be twisted to support whatever agenda that show wants to promote and sometimes they don't reveal their bias. Most, such as John Oliver do but many others pretend to be "fair & balanced."

How someone reacts to what you say isn't in your control and the very concept of "making someone mad" is deeply flawed. I don't remember being given a human remote control with an angry face button. It's all about attitude. Some people really can be offensive on purpose and it's usually pretty obvious but many of the people claiming to be offended are only offended because they choose to perceive something in a way that fits their victim mentality or negative view of a given person. If I were to tell a Silver player that he's in the bottom X% of players, I'm sure many would be offended even if it was completely factual.

SirLime16 votes

Refusing to communicate/cooperate is the biggest copout vague excuse there is (like most of The Summoner's Code). By that logic, everyone who never pinged or chatted in game should be banned as well. Why the double standard? You're not obligated to chat or ping and you don't have to be what your team wants. I think it was even removed as a report category because of how silly and subjective it actually is. You can play however you want as long as you're making an honest effort to win. Heck, if they hated Singed support so much, they had the option to dodge the lobby. Let's not pretend this is a complicated issue when it's not. There is no gray area here. This is obviously not a case where Riot's on the side of justice.

Also, if you watch the video, you'll see that it's just a big lie. The guy literally pastes two paragraphs explaining his strategy before the games start and he also uses plenty of pings. People confuse "not communicating" with "not doing what I want them to". These are very different things. Likewise, if a Jax or Tryndamere doesn't want to group and very clearly is playing a split-push strategy, that player is definitely communicating. His team may want him to group or do a number of things, but that's a different story.

Elite4Runner9 votes

{quoted} Also, if you watch the video, you'll see that it's just a big lie. The guy literally pastes two paragraphs explaining his strategy before the games start ...

Telling is not communicating.

When you unilaterally dictate strategy, you are not cooperating.

atomicwit6 votes

{quoted}

Telling is not communicating.

When you unilaterally dictate strategy, you are not cooperating.

Are you trying to become a meme? Telling is not communicating? This is completely incoherent and it's more "communication" than most players do. He played his style. Sometimes a person's style is unconventional and better players can adapt to it but it's not like he's forcing anyone. I suppose we better report jungers too since they're usually the shotcallers in games and their place on the map "dictates" strategy. "Wow, this jungler is ganking top instead of helping me bot and theirs is ganking!!! I guess I'M BEING FORCED TO ADAPT AND PLAY SAFER THAN USUAL!!! How dare he make gameplay choices in a team game that indirectly impact our play!!!!" Oh wait, every role does this to a degree. You're never in a vacuum. I pick AP Kog mid, I need time to scale. I pick Corki mid, we need to get CC and picks while trying not to let it go too late. I roam as a Leona, I impact other lanes (sometimes can backfire) and probably cost my ADC some CS. This is just such a stupid point it's unbelievable anyone would utter it with a straight face.

JQKAndrei2 votes

it's not like he's forcing anyone

One game his Janna was solo bot vs Lucian + Thresh. He's literally forcing players to play around him, he does occasionally take allied jungle camps which leads to the jungler having to leech exp mid/top which will piss them off as well.

He is forcing every single player in his team to play around him.

Sona Ping1 votes

Frequently. He frequently takes allied camps.

Hell, it's even in his own copypaste that he is going to farm his own jungler's camps.

Candoodle3 votes

Also, if you watch the video, you'll see that it's just a big lie. The guy literally pastes two paragraphs explaining his strategy before the games start

some games he does this after it's already started and he is in enemy jung, and this is not communicating it's giving his team an ultimatum after he pastes it he promptly ignores any objections

split push is a strategy but not one for someone who queues "support" split pushing and soaking up farm while actively ignoring your team and not warding is the exact opposite of support. His pick is not the issues it's the role he queued for

I could write a paragraph about how i think supp draven who takes half the farm while not building supp items is a good idea and copy paste it at the start of every game. Doesnt mean i'm communicating or cooperating with my team

MtnDewsh3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Deep Terror Nami,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=wL7lJ3pU,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-11-18T01:18:58.565+0000)

No, they actually gave it considerable special attention. This was not a punishment by the automated Instant Feedback System.

Nobody said he was trolling, and that's not what his ban was for. He was banned for refusing to cooperate with his team and not playing the role he queued up for, causing much strife on his own team for hundreds or thousands of other players by sabotaging their efforts with his own incompatible agenda (such as leaving his ADC in a 1v2 and counter jungling the team's jungler).

I highly recommend you read this post and the Riot responses to get an idea of what really happened and why he was punished for it; http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/79aGu3wR-support-singed-isnt-banable-but-thats-not-the-point

How is he not cooperating when he is helping the team win? Maybe the team should adjust accordingly? I mean it's common sense to play safe when your support is roaming, that's with ANY champion, not just singed.

Odinakos2 votes

So 4 people should adjust to the one but one should not adjust to 4? What is this madness?!

Also as a support i am gonna ensure you that no adc is gonna have a great time 1v2. From his quotes "Jinx 3 cs pfff" after letting her alone for 2 waves.

SirLime3 votes

I know but this discussion goes beyond just that Singed player or this sort of action.

Odinakos1 votes

How it goes beyond that player since Riot stated it was a highly specific and rare case that they had to manually inverstigate?

Supreme Senpai697 votes

Can we let this die? It was on the hotpage or whatever for like 4 days straight. Riot commented on it. That's the end of it. If you haven't read it yet, here's the tl;dr:

He deserved the 2 week ban for his playstyle which promoted nothing but frustration. He doesn't deserve a perma for that playstyle though, so no further action will be taken. After the ban his behavior supposedly improved.

Basically, he's in no threat of being punished further so yea.

SirLime7 votes

He deserved the two-week ban!?? I'm waiting for the punchline. I've presented my arguments here and I don't think other players' tilt vulnerability and rigidity can be pinned on the Singed player. It's not like they're forced to play with him if they can't handle it and either way, that reflects on them. Nor should he have to meet standards which aren't applied uniformly (apparently he has to be the next George Washington or he's not communicating enough). The guy even explained what he did in the game lobby.

His behavior improving is code for "He was forced to play the game in a different way from what he wanted/enjoyed and now no longer employs his desired and reasonably effective strategy." That's right, he stopped taking Smite because Riot lied about players being able to go "off-meta". That's all he was doing and his results prove it. It takes a lot of misguided rationalization to ban someone for playing their game when it was enough to be ranked substantially higher than most of the population. All this guy plays is Singed. He might have more mastery points on Singed than anyone.

Elite4Runner6 votes

{quoted}

He deserved the two week ban?? I'm waiting for the punchline. I've presented my arguments here and I don't think other players' tilt vulnerability and rigidity can be pinned on the Singed player. Nor should he have to meet standards which aren't applied uniformly.

We're talking about the "tilt vulnerability" of HUNDREDS (and I wish I was exaggerating) of players who ultimately reported him.

SirLime8 votes

That literally has no bearing on anything. The number of people makes no difference. It's not on him. Maybe your face makes thousands of people want to shoot you. Does that mean it's OK now because it's a common reaction? I'm just messing with you but this is a fallacious argument falling under the bandwagon umbrella.

Supreme Senpai693 votes

Why did you present your arguments though was my point. Case closed unless you want to argue over something that already happened. The two week ban is over and he's playing again. If you want to generalize this into an off meta thing then I'd still direct you to the Rioter's post but that'd be fine. I don't want to argue this when the Rioter said pretty much everything I could. Him going Singed support with smite was fine. I used to go Ivern support with smite. The issue was he started the game topside and didn't go to bot lane until after four minutes in. He would consistently leave his ADC to counter jungle.

At that point, it's not Singed support. It's Singed jungle. Which would be fine if he didn't queue as support. After the ban, he supposedly is now acting more like a support and still playing Singed support. Everybody wins?

SirLime4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Revan Senpai,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=wL7lJ3pU,comment-id=000400000001,timestamp=2016-11-18T02:14:58.157+0000)

Why did you present your arguments though was my point. Case closed unless you want to argue over something that already happened. The two week ban is over and he's playing again. If you want to generalize this into an off meta thing then I'd still direct you to the Rioter's post but that'd be fine. I don't want to argue this when the Rioter said pretty much everything I could. Him going Singed support with smite was fine. I used to go Ivern support with smite. The issue was he started the game topside and didn't go to bot lane until after four minutes in. He would consistently leave his ADC to counter jungle.

At that point, it's not Singed support. It's Singed jungle. Which would be fine if he didn't queue as support. After the ban, he supposedly is now acting more like a support and still playing Singed support. Everybody wins?

What happens to him sets a bad precedent and the decision reverberates far past him. It can potentially affect millions of players and just like you appeal a ruling you disagree with in court, I speak up when I think a bad decision is made here.

Just because he took Smite doesn't make him a jungler. That was merely a tool to set the enemy jungler behind. I guess by that logic, top laners frequently taking Smite not that long ago were all junglers. If I take Smite mid vs Heimerdinger so I can basically remove his ult. from the game, am I now a jungler too? A role isn't defined purely by summoner spells. At least watch the linked video if you're going to comment.

Supreme Senpai693 votes

Not to be rude, especially because you haven't been too rude so far, but did you not read the part when I said I used to take smite as a support too? I did it a lot. Taking smite doesn't make you a jungler, I know that better than most. Spending more time in the jungle than in your lane does, however. When I took smite it was to make the enemy jungler's life hell. As long as I was in that game they would never get a blue buff. And since I was Ivern, my mid laner got it too! That's buffing two people and putting one enemy behind, an acceptable way to do it.

Flat out going full Nunu isn't what a support in the bot lane should be doin. A role is defined by behavior, not by summoner spells

atomicwit3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Revan Senpai,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=wL7lJ3pU,comment-id=00040000000100010000,timestamp=2016-11-18T04:19:13.674+0000)

Not to be rude, especially because you haven't been too rude so far, but did you not read the part when I said I used to take smite as a support too? I did it a lot. Taking smite doesn't make you a jungler, I know that better than most. Spending more time in the jungle than in your lane does, however. When I took smite it was to make the enemy jungler's life hell. As long as I was in that game they would never get a blue buff. And since I was Ivern, my mid laner got it too! That's buffing two people and putting one enemy behind, an acceptable way to do it.

Flat out going full Nunu isn't what a support in the bot lane should be doin. A role is defined by behavior, not by summoner spells

He didn't though. He came back to lane right after the invade.

Supreme Senpai692 votes

In this video maybe

Best Ekko NA4 votes

I'm just gonna leave the wise words of WildTurtle here on this page because it has so much meaning on this whole topic. All these players are reporting this guy, crying about how HE chooses to play and yet he's proven himself very successful. Why should he care about what his team thinks? You don't see this guy blaming his team for his losses however they are blaming him despite his proven success. It's just like I said in the other post... this guy didn't do anything wrong. In a real life context -- the world is full of uneducated people who can't even tell you left from right, however that doesn't mean they understand more than someone who IS educated. Just because 100+ people reported this guy doesn't mean he should be banned, it means they should learn to adapt more themselves and accept that sometimes the meta isn't always correct.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJm3gDize8k&feature=youtu.be

Demonicous4 votes

By Rito's bullshit judgement now we can report...

Ahri Support Korean Akali item build AP Alistar Ashe Jungle Chogath Support Tank Ekko Illaoi Support Ivern Support Kassadin Jungle Kindred Top Leona Jungle Malzahar Jungle MissFortune Support Quinn Top Rengar Top Shaco Support Vayne Top Veigar Support Urgot At all... ever Teemo Support Swain Support Zac Mid Zilean Mid Xerath Support

Just start reporting these every time you see them because they are not playing positions that they are supposed to or building items the meta dictates.

I wonder where the outrage was when Taric was choosen to counter Darius / Jayce top pre-rework last season?

This is also coming from the people that promote Brand as support.

Lesson to be learned from this? Dont do drugs kids.

LordGeovanni3 votes

Your teammates cant hold their shit together. stop doing what you are doing or you will get banned

Craft Zeppelin3 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UohpkGxfi-E

2:50 Trolling is making your adc tank skillshots while standing still in the jungle and "regenerating mana". And then returning to lane and position DELIBERATELY so draven will take the enemy skillshots.

Odinakos1 votes

Almost all the match Ashe is at least 50% more cs than Draven. Totally the adc's fault guys! /s

TheTrueQuarian3 votes

The pros didn't play it at worlds so its against the rules.[slayer-jinx-catface]

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