Leaver Buster --- Busted.

Ameril·Aug 10, 2017·1 votes·1,313 views

Rant/rave/vent - maybe someone shares my view /shrug

I've had a number of games lately where people have randomly left game, now whether that be due to IRL, connection problem, dog vomiting on your face, I don't really care. It puts my team at a disadvantage and the game can clearly tell that you are gone, so why is there no remake option when someone leaves in the middle of the game and is AFK? I don't think it's fair that my whole team suffers an LP loss when it's a 4v5... call me crazy! I am not saying all of my games would have been won if someone would not have left, but we would have at least had a chance to try.

24 Comments

RiotRiot TantramAug 10, 201711 votes

If there was a remake option when someone left, why would one player just not take a penalty for the team and quit when they were losing?

OceanicEyesAug 10, 20172 votes

A suggestion I've seen thrown around the boards for a while is to make the AFK player take a higher LP loss while the other players lose less LP. Of course that's by no means perfect, and is exploitable as well. Just food for thought

ChermorgAug 10, 20171 votes

If I had to lose more LP than a normal loss due to an emergency, it’d really suck.

OceanicEyesAug 10, 20171 votes

Yeah which is definitely a flaw with that idea. To play devil's advocate, you can argue the player who leaves has more concerns with an emergency than losing LP, but it's still something that sucks.

ChermorgAug 11, 20171 votes

Yeah, that’s why they leave. If my mom’s in the hospital, I don’t need to come back to see that i’ve dropped in rank or lost a ridiculous amount of LP just for doing what any sane human would do.

League is a casual game - not a game where you’re penalized so harshly for one emergency.

OceanicEyesAug 11, 20171 votes

Yeah that's understandable. For sure a reason why that suggestion I mentioned isn't optimal.

Beas7ieAug 10, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Tantram,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=wI951NOq,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-08-10T19:00:28.880+0000)

If there was a remake option when someone left, why would one player just not take a penalty for the team and quit when they were losing?

Because that player would still get hit with the automatic loss from leaving along with the standard Leaverbuster penalty which is extra harsh with ranked games?

Or maybe I'm just in the minority when I say I sure as hell will NOT "take one for the team" and eat leaverbuster so my teammates can get a remake.

AmerilAug 10, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Because that player would still get hit with the automatic loss from leaving along with the standard Leaverbuster penalty which is extra harsh with ranked games?

Or maybe I'm just in the minority when I say I sure as hell will NOT "take one for the team" and eat leaverbuster so my teammates can get a remake.

I'm with you... I'm not taking one for the team that way either.

It just REALLY sucks when this happens.

I know when it was being implemented, Riot wanted to make sure it worked properly and wasn't abused by premades but I really don't think it works properly right now

YerroFeverAug 10, 20173 votes

{quoted}

Because that player would still get hit with the automatic loss from leaving along with the standard Leaverbuster penalty which is extra harsh with ranked games?

Or maybe I'm just in the minority when I say I sure as hell will NOT "take one for the team" and eat leaverbuster so my teammates can get a remake.

The negatives outweigh the positives. Negative: When one person takes the fall for a communal failure, that disproportionately rewards the team for finding one disproportionately punished sacrificial lamb. HIGH ability to abuse, particularly in ranked. This is also the equivalent of surrender without a loss and so this does not make much sense to me to actually create a system that is so obviously vulnerable to abuse.

Positives: You don't lose LP in that game if it's ranked because it's absolutely no different from surrender outside of LP loss.

Beas7ieAug 10, 20171 votes

{quoted}

The negatives outweigh the positives. Negative: When one person takes the fall for a communal failure, that disproportionately rewards the team for finding one disproportionately punished sacrificial lamb. HIGH ability to abuse, particularly in ranked. This is also the equivalent of surrender without a loss and so this does not make much sense to me to actually create a system that is so obviously vulnerable to abuse.

Positives: You don't lose LP in that game if it's ranked because it's absolutely no different from surrender outside of LP loss.

If it's a full premade team, I can see a few people trying this, but not in Solo Q. Like I said before, maybe I'm in the minority but I'm sure as hell NOT eatting the leaverbuster penalty, LP loss, and the other stuff just so some random strangers I randomly got matched with can get a remake.

The way I see this being abused is if people are flaming and raging while trying to "force" someone not having that good of a game to leave and eat the penalty. The way around this would be to make harsh(like instant 14 day "last warning next time you get perm'd" bans) for people trying to get someone to leave like this so they can get the remake.

Likewise make the LP loss higher for the person who actually does leave in order to further discourage leaving.

YerroFeverAug 10, 20171 votes

{quoted}

If it's a full premade team, I can see a few people trying this, but not in Solo Q. Like I said before, maybe I'm in the minority but I'm sure as hell NOT eatting the leaverbuster penalty, LP loss, and the other stuff just so some random strangers I randomly got matched with can get a remake.

The way I see this being abused is if people are flaming and raging while trying to "force" someone not having that good of a game to leave and eat the penalty. The way around this would be to make harsh(like instant 14 day "last warning next time you get perm'd" bans) for people trying to get someone to leave like this so they can get the remake.

Likewise make the LP loss higher for the person who actually does leave in order to further discourage leaving.

People already avoid trigger words to not get flagged by the instant feedback system. What a more likely outcome is that everyone will try to troll to get someone, not a specific person, but any person to leave on their team. So instead of flaming, which is easier to detect through chat, they'll troll.

This means not only does the system encourage abuse of the LP leave system, but it indirectly encourages trolling.

Currently, many people troll without typing and building normally and just make "bad" decisions in fights and intentionally lose during exchanges and it becomes very hard to distinguish between bad plays and trolling. This is the reason why troll banning is hard right now. You have to scrutinize games that are flagged for trolling and then watch more games to learn their play style to see if their troll game is in line with their normal games and so it's really just a huge time sink.

The cost benefit scale, in my mind, still is leaning towards not implementing this system.

Beas7ieAug 10, 20171 votes

{quoted}

People already avoid trigger words to not get flagged by the instant feedback system. What a more likely outcome is that everyone will try to troll to get someone, not a specific person, but any person to leave on their team. So instead of flaming, which is easier to detect through chat, they'll troll.

This means not only does the system encourage abuse of the LP leave system, but it indirectly encourages trolling.

Currently, many people troll without typing and building normally and just making "bad" decisions in fights and intentionally lose during exchanges and it becomes very hard to distinguish between bad plays and trolling. This is the reason why troll banning is hard right now. You have to scrutinize games that are flagged for trolling and then watch more games to learn their play style to see if their troll game is in line with their normal games and so it's really just a huge time sink.

The cost benefit scale, in my mind, still is leaning towards not implementing this system.

And if somone loses their cool and leaves because they think everyone else is trolling, then they deserve the punishment. Maybe don't make it last all game, but just extend the remake window by 5 or 10 minutes. If people try to troll and get all "Cute" in order to get someone else to leave then get a replay of the game and manually make a support ticket. Explain why you think they were trolling and not just "playing badly"

YerroFeverAug 10, 20171 votes

{quoted}

And if somone loses their cool and leaves because they think everyone else is trolling, then they deserve the punishment. Maybe don't make it last all game, but just extend the remake window by 5 or 10 minutes. If people try to troll and get all "Cute" in order to get someone else to leave then get a replay of the game and manually make a support ticket. Explain why you think they were trolling and not just "playing badly"

You're not understanding the point.

Currently, no one gets any LP loss reductions when someone drops. Intentional leave or real connection problems, there is no difference. This means there's no benefit to trolling your own teammates when you're losing except out of the twisted self satisfaction of being a jerk to people.

With there is an LP loss reductions when someone drops, this means there is a benefit to trolling your own teammates when you're losing because your loss counts less. Because the system won't care whether that person left because of connection problems or because your teammates trolled to try and get a LP loss reduction, you're actually encouraging people to troll.

This feeds trolls because now there's actually a benefit to trolling. Troll when you're losing to get a person to rage quit and you get an LP loss reduction.

I understand that the intent of this proposed change is to protect people but it's actually going to turn ranked into cesspools of toxic trolls because of the benefit you give them by making someone leave the game.

The punishment you get from leave buster and the heavier LP loss does not outweigh 4 people on your team getting reported for trolling because the slow turn around time it takes for behavior specialists to review your game and detect the trolling because they have to review the trolls behavior when they're not trolling to compare whether or not there is actual trolling vs just being bad players.

In my opinion, it's an unreasonable burden you're asking Riot to take on for the small benefit you get with reducing LP loss when someone disconnects.

Unless you have suggestions and ways to detect trolls easily that you can suggest?

Beas7ieAug 11, 20171 votes

{quoted}

You're not understanding the point.

Currently, no one gets any LP loss reductions when someone drops. Intentional leave or real connection problems, there is no difference. This means there's no benefit to trolling your own teammates when you're losing except out of the twisted self satisfaction of being a jerk to people.

With there is an LP loss reductions when someone drops, this means there is a benefit to trolling your own teammates when you're losing because your loss counts less. Because the system won't care whether that person left because of connection problems or because your teammates trolled to try and get a LP loss reduction, you're actually encouraging people to troll.

This feeds trolls because now there's actually a benefit to trolling. Troll when you're losing to get a person to rage quit and you get an LP loss reduction.

I understand that the intent of this proposed change is to protect people but it's actually going to turn ranked into cesspools of toxic trolls because of the benefit you give them by making someone leave the game.

The punishment you get from leave buster and the heavier LP loss does not outweigh 4 people on your team getting reported for trolling because the slow turn around time it takes for behavior specialists to review your game and detect the trolling because they have to review the trolls behavior when they're not trolling to compare whether or not there is actual trolling vs just being bad players.

In my opinion, it's an unreasonable burden you're asking Riot to take on for the small benefit you get with reducing LP loss when someone disconnects.

Unless you have suggestions and ways to detect trolls easily that you can suggest?

I'm understanding the point and respect your point of view perfectly. There's a chance that people are gonna jack around to try and get someone else to leave in order to gain something from it. I can see this happening with premades every now and then, but people seem to be acting like this will be rampant out of control and unstoppable and I highly doubt that will be the case.

At any rate maybe Riot can try experimenting by just extending the premade window by a few minutes and see if there are any more reports of people trying to grief or troll in attempts to get others to drop out.

YerroFeverAug 11, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I'm understanding the point and respect your point of view perfectly. There's a chance that people are gonna jack around to try and get someone else to leave in order to gain something from it. I can see this happening with premades every now and then, but people seem to be acting like this will be rampant out of control and unstoppable and I highly doubt that will be the case.

At any rate maybe Riot can try experimenting by just extending the premade window by a few minutes and see if there are any more reports of people trying to grief or troll in attempts to get others to drop out.

The problem isn't that it will be rampant out of control and unstoppable, the problem is that it will exacerbate a preexisting problem disproportionately compared to the benefit it creates.

It's like you're trying to use a grenade to kill a fly in your house. Yeah a grenade can get the job done, but holy shit you're going to fuck up a lot of other stuff in the process. The grenade isn't a proper tool to fix the fly problem.

Imperial PandaaAug 10, 20172 votes

You may not be that guy, but buddies who are trying to help their friend climb may. Using a smurf account to play with a friend to elevate their lp and anytime a game goes south, afk to reduce the lose on them. People would even sell that service.

Beas7ieAug 10, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Imperial Pandaa,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=wI951NOq,comment-id=00010001000200000001,timestamp=2017-08-10T20:41:53.212+0000)

You may not be that guy, but buddies who are trying to help their friend climb may. Using a smurf account to play with a friend to elevate their lp and anytime a game goes south, afk to reduce the lose on them. People would even sell that service.

If people are willing to do that, then I need to get better friends. As for trying to "sell that service" I really don't see how that would be any worse or harder to detect than people outright purchasing boosting.

Imperial PandaaAug 10, 20171 votes

Once again, i would be on smurfs so friends might.

In theory it wouldn't be hard to detect but it opens up a new can of problems. Is Riot going to penalize someone for playing with someone else? Am I going to be told who I can and can't play with?

Kirius DarkAug 11, 20171 votes

That's why you make AFK/leaver penalties extremely harsh, like that person eating 80% of the team's LP loss and the rest have reduced loss. If you buddy wants to mitigate a loss for you they better be ready to drop a division

KnightOfEloHellAug 11, 20172 votes

No boi what's messed up is when your modem Dc's, you come back into game and still get leaverbusted.

That happens to me so much.

20 minute waits OP

Imperial PandaaAug 10, 20171 votes

GW2 pvp prevents you from losing rating if the match is a 4v5. I have been guilty of thinking "I hope they don't reconnect." just so I don't lose rating. Course comparing the two games isn't fair.

This Is Your DadAug 10, 20171 votes

Can a surrender vote with an afk possibly reduce lp loss? So if you choose not to play it out, you can still surrender for a minimal loss, and the offending player has to have been afk for at least 5 minutes, to prevent a sudden "take one for the team" afker? That would give enough time for a turnaround or for them to reconnect, and would only work if you agreed to surrender. If you fought it out, you'd lose the full amount.