I told my 1/9/1 jg vayne in my Gold 1 promos

Kat Smurf··4 votes·2,512 views

"fuck you for picking vayne" "how dare you call anyone trash" "muted"

and I was Permanently Banned. Cool game. I know perma bans don't come without more examples, but my previous bans were just as bad on the system is my opinion. My first ban was litterally saying "wow fuck this trash afk" and the AFK person reported me(because they 'actively' AFK) and I was actually flagged and given a 2 week ban for talking trash about a level 3 urgot sitting in fountain at 22 minutes. I even sent a ticket with a VOD and you didn't restore my honor, unban me, or anything, according to you Riot, that's how Honor works K?

I UNDERSTAND being toxic in chat is not allowed but Riot, you seriously have no sympathy for people actually playing the game.

Ps. That is not the full chat log. I said much more to Vayne, and am not surprised I was flagged. It's just bullshit still. Doesn't anyone feel the same? the dude litterally had 4,000 vayne mastery too, like what is even the point of having chat if people only actively try to lose the game? also obviously the fight starts with him engaging on my lane poorly into 2 champions alone and dying then flaming me first...zzzz banned.

22 Comments

KFCeytron7 votes

Your opinion of the rules is of zero relevance. When a cop stops you for going 40 in a 25 zone, you can claim "I think the limit should be 45 here" all you want. You're still getting a ticket. If a librarian asks you to keep your voice down while you use the facilities, shouting that libraries should be loud will simply get you escorted out. If you go to a friend's house who insists that you remove your shoes while you're in their home, "that's a stupid rule and I do what I want" will lose you a friend. If you are using someone else's services, facilities, equipment, etc., you abide by their rules or you deal with the consequences. If you think the rules should change, that is a completely different conversation (and I wouldn't give a plugged nickel for your chances at convincing Riot to change their rules to allow behavior like yours).

From Riot's support knowledgebase:

We work with the overall community and within our own company guidelines to identify what disruptive behavior is and what the consequences for those behaviors should be. We understand that it can be difficult to know where the line is, which is why we provide chat logs and we have a few tiers in the ban process in order to allow for you to learn and grow.

Kat Smurf1 votes

The issue isn't going 40 in a 25, it's the law is intended to stop people speeding in cars, but the Cop is pulling over a Helicoptor.

Comparing my point to standardly breaking a law shows complete misunderstanding of the situation. The people screaming the N word in my chat are the ones going 40 in a 25 because that's obviously the rule breakers the law was intended to stop.

It would be less salty if there wasn't an even punishment for calling someone the N word and typing all caps 50 lines a game, verses someone that says one 4 line piece over a completely game related in-game topic one time in between hundreds of games, and gets banned for it. No Tolerance in the rules is an aspect put there by Racism and Homophobia offenders. My complaint is basically that 'speeding' holds a Death Penalty, because Murder another rule, also does.

Mostly tho, it's that Riot just cares less about my G1 promos, and more about the feelings of first time jg flamer vayne in ranked. If someone is clearly trying to lose games on purpose, giving their accounts report weight seems wrong.

All you say there is no exceptions either, when this is a technicality of what a 'rule' is, obviously you cannot break rules, that doesn't mean that rules are correct all the time though, and there have been contextually lifted bans in the past by Riot, so this community mentality that 'context doesnt matter' is honestly toxic itself. I'm an extremely reasonable player and never had an issue with Discord in League of Legends once ever, only ever chat where people will intentially flame, harass and try to bait you- they will purposefully try to lose, and ping your items and mia ping you, Why does this never happen in Discord? Why are people not so rude in Discord? I've played multiple games with Riot Employees themselves in Discord and they would probably consider my attitude exemplary. The issue is the chat, the community, and the rules themselves. I'm obviously not arguing to remove the rules, somehow that's what 5/6 commentators have read, these replies are almost like bots. More like just better tribunal system, that's it.

"You're still getting a ticket." PS. Does a cop write you a ticket for speeding to the Hospital? No, they don't. All rules have exceptions. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exception_that_proves_the_rule That's a rule. 0 Tolerance is Riot being lazy for an easier solution, real life has exceptions.

I do admit the easier solution is reasonable, but you cannot deny it's a lazy handle to punishment. Live Riot Employees would probably disagree with my ban speaking about the AFK with even the smallest amount of context, but instead ban flags are handled by bots.

KFCeytron2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kat Smurf,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=vqYXBsYk,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-10-14T22:29:16.439+0000)

The issue isn't going 40 in a 25, it's the law is intended to stop people speeding in cars, but the Cop is pulling over a Helicoptor.

Comparing my point to standardly breaking a law shows complete misunderstanding of the situation. The people screaming the N word in my chat are the ones going 40 in a 25 because that's obviously the rule breakers the law was intended to stop.

It would be less salty if there wasn't an even punishment for calling someone the N word and typing all caps 50 lines a game, verses someone that says one 4 line piece over a completely game related in-game topic one time in between hundreds of games, and gets banned for it. No Tolerance in the rules is an aspect put there by Racism and Homophobia offenders. My complaint is basically that 'speeding' holds a Death Penalty, because Murder another rule, also does.

Mostly tho, it's that Riot just cares less about my G1 promos, and more about the feelings of first time jg flamer vayne in ranked. If someone is clearly trying to lose games on purpose, giving their accounts report weight seems wrong.

All you say there is no exceptions either, when this is a technicality of what a 'rule' is, obviously you cannot break rules, that doesn't mean that rules are correct all the time though, and there have been contextually lifted bans in the past by Riot, so this community mentality that 'context doesnt matter' is honestly toxic itself. I'm an extremely reasonable player and never had an issue with Discord in League of Legends once ever, only ever chat where people will intentially flame, harass and try to bait you- they will purposefully try to lose, and ping your items and mia ping you, Why does this never happen in Discord? Why are people not so rude in Discord? I've played multiple games with Riot Employees themselves in Discord and they would probably consider my attitude exemplary. The issue is the chat, the community, and the rules themselves. I'm obviously not arguing to remove the rules, somehow that's what 5/6 commentators have read, these replies are almost like bots. More like just better tribunal system, that's it.

"You're still getting a ticket." PS. Does a cop write you a ticket for speeding to the Hospital? No, they don't. All rules have exceptions. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exception_that_proves_the_rule That's a rule. 0 Tolerance is Riot being lazy for an easier solution, real life has exceptions.

I do admit the easier solution is reasonable, but you cannot deny it's a lazy handle to punishment. Live Riot Employees would probably disagree with my ban speaking about the AFK with even the smallest amount of context, but instead ban flags are handled by bots.

You are not a helicopter. You are not a special case. You merit no extra consideration over other players.

If you misbehave but a teammate or opponent does or says something even worse, you should definitely report them after the match, just as someone reported you for your own misbehavior. Yes, that's certainly possible. Reports are not a limited resource. Any time someone believes that another player violated LoL's behavioral standards, they can report that player. Punishments are similarly not limited: if more than one player in a game merits a punishment, they can both get a punishment. This can happen even if the players in question were antagonizing each other. The IFS doesn't need to weigh the severity of all reported players' actions and then "award" the "winner" with a punishment; it's not a contest.

Think of it like dealing with a noisy person in a library: ask them to keep it down, and then notify library staff and move to another area if that doesn't work. If you get into a shouting match with them, you're just as likely to be removed, even if you weren't shouting quite as loudly as they were. The goal is a quiet library.

Usually, one transgression by itself wouldn't be enough to bring such a punishment to an otherwise clean account, but the IFS works on an escalating punishment system. Breaking a minor rule, like engaging the team in useless arguments, has a minor punishment: a chat restriction. Breaking that same rule over and over again, however, doesn't prompt an endless series of chat restrictions. The severity of the punishment ramps up over time, because the goal is to eliminate the punished player's willingness to break the game's rules. If two chat restrictions don't stop the useless arguments, the system will increase the punishment to a 14-day suspension and deliver a very clear message that the continued rule-breaking is becoming a serious issue and any further instances will result in a permaban. Again, the point is to put a stop to this misbehavior. If a player is more interested in repeatedly breaking the rules than in maintaining access to their account, they'll lose access to their account.

Of course, it's possible to break major rules, like cheating, threatening people, or using chat for hate speech, and skip punishment tiers so that a clean account ends up with a 14-day suspension or even a permaban.

From Riot's support knowledgebase:

PUNISHMENTS GENERALLY FOLLOW A BASIC ESCALATION PATH:

  • First Offense: 10 Game Chat Restriction
  • Second Offense: 25 Game Chat Restriction
  • Third Offense: Two Week Suspension
  • Fourth Offense: Permanent Suspension

However, it is possible to skip to a Two Week or Permanent suspension based on the severity of the behavior in the game. Excessive negative behavior can result in a Two-Week or Permanent suspension at any time without having a chat restriction on the account.

Behaving well sometimes doesn't mean you behave well all the time. In this instance - and possibly others, since the IFS punishes based on severity and consistency, and the reform card doesn't necessarily display logs for every match where you were validly reported - you behaved poorly. Poor behavior is very impactful and thus carries a lot of weight with the IFS. The IFS does forgive the occasional bad day, but if that kind of behavior becomes habitual, you might be greeted with a reform card telling you to rein it in, or with a permaban message if the temporary punishments haven't worked.

You weren't doing the equivalent of speeding to a hospital. It's not uncommon for police officers to assist people trying to get to a hospital and waive their ticket, because getting to a hospital quickly can be very beneficial and important. What you were doing had no justification whatsoever, no benefit, and no redeeming value. You just flame people all the time. I actually find it pretty distasteful that you think insulting people on the Internet is equivalent to a medical emergency, that you just HAVE to do it.

Well, now you can't do it on this account.

rujitra4 votes

So you flamed someone, got a final warning, then continued to flame in future games.

What is the problem? Do you think you should be able to just flame anyone you want to without consequences?

Kat Smurf1 votes

no, as clearly stated in the OP "I UNDERSTAND being toxic in chat is not allowed"

and the initial warning was for flaming a disconnected player, that reconnected only in time to report me, never even saw messages, and because he is a salty person I am punished by the system for flaming him because robots read my messages and a player just verifies they are bad words, there is no context. The second offence despite also being legitimate is the same issue, there is no context.

It's completely reasonable for someone in promos to be mad their jungle is a first time vayne that is running it down. And compared to chat logs I've seen from other players I was actually quite reserved. Maybe I just misunderstood what "Ranked Que" meant. It must mean first time vayne jg and flame your team, then report them and pray for bans.

I'm not arguing my bans, I'm arguing that the reasoning to ban people like this is flawed because it empowers toxic players that intentionally want to lose over everyone. You can't even tell the person 'fuck you' or else you're just also axed, meanwhile they get to ping and chat and say anything they want because they already know their account is doomed, and you just have to sit there for 15 minutes to wait to FF because they quit mentally in less than 2 minutes. There is issues with this imo, not just my ban.

Also, this might sound stupid, but small flames here and there have gotten my teammates back on track and focused to win, like pinging a deathtimer or a MIA ping. If all they can focus on is flaming me back, then I know that person was never going to do well anyway and has terrible mental. The difference is I flame them once, and they flame me every time the MIA ping is back off cooldown. It's absurd being compared to that.

The "you are more toxic than .006%" of players message is cute too, when there is racism and just literally the worst chat you could ever imagine in a video, in my games, nearly every single game, and there is legitimately no way that this single game was in the worst of the .006%, I could really post the logs if you want to dispute that, but it's not really arguable to me that is untrue.

rujitra2 votes

So Riot should let you flame because it somehow will reduce toxicity. This is false. People don’t stop trolling or playing poorly because you flame them. You can claim it has all you want but it’s scientifically proven to not. The detriment to all 5 team members from flaming far outweighs any benefit you may believe you’ve seen.

Kat Smurf1 votes

Did I say riot should let me flame? I think that contextually some punishments are incorrect, I never said I think Riot should let you flame. That is a strawman suggestion you came up with yourself.

rujitra3 votes

You did say that, actually. You think you should be allowed to break the rules because the “context” is different.

Kat Smurf1 votes

Quote it then, because I never said I should be allowed to break the rules ever, I said that contextually the offences are not equal. If I'm demanding quotes to things I never said this quickly, it's obvious you're not interested in taking the same conversation path I am. I don't think that telling Vayne Fuck you after flaming me first and feeding is acceptable, but I just also don't think it's comparable to how people are typically banned for toxicity. The point is you don't have to be in the .006% most toxic players to be banned, just coming into contact with them is enough and that is less fair. If you just want to be an obvious hall monitor and argue toxic words should always be banned, more power to you, that's not the point of this thread, the point is there is sometimes situations that are less typical. Like me being banned for flaming an AFK player, is not what the rule was intended to prevent. It's still 'not allowed' but it has less scope of context. If you don't think that's an issue, that's your own opinion, but at least understand my point before endlessly putting words in my mouth and misrepresenting what I said as a different argument. If you can't read my OP accurately, then there is no point in conversing with you, you're only talking to yourself.

GatekeeperTDS4 votes

you seriously have no sympathy for people actually playing the game

You're exactly right, the rules are there to help out the rest of us who don't want to deal with your shit and just play the game.

You're in your Gold promos. Can I ask a question? Who the hell are you? Is your experience more important than anyone else's?

I even sent a ticket with a VOD and you didn't restore my honor, unban me, or anything, according to you Riot, that's how Honor works K?

"Honor" works by being honorable. If you've reached permaban level - NEWSFLASH - you ain't honorable, son.

Arcade Lulu3 votes

On your 14 day ban reform card it CLEARLY says that the next offense will lead to a permanent suspension You broke the rules after your 14 day ban and got perma banned for it

How is this bullshit? Your actions have consequences

Kat Smurf1 votes

I explain without any confusion of the consequences, why it is bullshit, that's the point of the thread. Maybe read it again.

You're just trying to bait me into being upset I guess, because it's pretty logical, it's the same old story we've heard before, someone ran it down in my promo and I was banned for telling them "no u".

Arcade Lulu3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kat Smurf,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=vqYXBsYk,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-10-14T21:18:41.341+0000)

I explain without any confusion of the consequences, why it is bullshit, that's the point of the thread.

You're just trying to bait me into being upset I guess, because it's pretty logical, it's the same old story we've heard before, someone ran it down in my game and I was banned for telling them "no u".

Just because someone else is breaking the rules, doesn't mean you are allowed to break the rules

It doesn't matter what others do. If you break the rules, you get punished for it

Kat Smurf1 votes

Did I say because someone else was breaking the rules, I should be allowed to break the rules? Did I ever argue I should be allowed to break rules? No. I said, the context of the rules I was breaking was more reasonable than the context of someone typically breaking the rules. (By generally a lot imo)

It's obvious you're not here to have discussion or be reasonable, so you can leave me alone now. That's twice you've replied with completely unrelated bait responses that I'm not interested in debunking.

Arcade Lulu1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kat Smurf,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=vqYXBsYk,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-14T21:35:51.803+0000)

Did I say because someone else was breaking the rules, I should be allowed to break the rules? Did I ever argue I should be allowed to break rules? No. I said, the context of the rules I was breaking was more reasonable than the context of someone typically breaking the rules. (By generally a lot imo)

It's obvious you're not here to have discussion or be reasonable, so you can leave me alone now.

There's no relevant context to breaking the rules Either you break the rules or you don't break the rules Nothing makes you breaking the rules ok or "reasonable" There is no context that would allow you to break the rules, not even minor offenses

Sure you can be like "they were running it down and flaming me, so i should be allowed to flame them back because they deserve it and started it, so they should be able to take what they dish out" but that simply isn't true

Kat Smurf1 votes

I'm not stupid, that's why I said (And I quote) "I UNDERSTAND being toxic in chat is not allowed" I don't need an explanation that the rules are devoid of context, that's the point of the thread if you're still trying to catch up.

Your childish example at the end "they were running it down and flaming me, so i should be allowed to flame them back" is continuously all your own projected opinion of this conversation, not the actual conversation. Once you're up to speed, let me know.

Debating what the rules are, is not the same debate as how they apply. There have been contextual bans lifted in the past, so the idea that 'context doesn't matter' is only unofficially true because they are 'rules', not because they are 'right'. You can SAY context doesn't matter, but you're only being technically correct, that's it. No one is confused about the technicals of this, we all know there is a 'no exceptions'(except when there are) to the rules.

DOUBLE TAPPED E3 votes

My 2 cents, take it or leave it:

If you can't handle reading a couple bad words on the internet, you should probably not be allowed on the internet.

Teemos Tittiees3 votes

Ban system is garbage. You can literally get trolled in your promos, complain to the person literally ruining your game ( the kind of people they supposedly want to get rid of ) but you will be the one banned. It’s a complete joke.

Chønklord2 votes

From what I gather in your comments, you seem to think that "I can be toxic to someone who isn't in the game" is OK. News flash, it isn't, and you were banned. Better luck next account (if you so choose to roll a new one).

Kat Smurf2 votes

I wasn't even directly speaking to the AFK player, I was speaking to teammates, who also were grieving the fact it was a 4v5.

How it's toxic to complain about AFK with your mutual teammates that are still not AFK? I was literally flagged for using the word 'fuck' alone when I said 'fucking afk', that's the only reason the inital infraction was received is because a bot flagged it. I have major doubt you have not ever complained about a 4v5 in League of Legends, the only difference is a bot didn't flag you complaining over it.

It's not like I salted him till he quit, he quit on his own, and 15 minutes later as we lost a close fight, I made that comment to reassure my team it wasn't their fault because we have an AFK. The AFK player getting me banned in this situation as I literally comforted my team is honestly really bad punishment system. I wasn't even REMOTELY choosing to be toxic. Thanks for all of you painting me as the worst possible person to ever play this game. It gives me an idea of who posts here and how much I seriously don't belong.

YoshiMatrix1 votes

Need logs. Also chat is there for stuff that pings can't communicate such as "bait baron." Not toxicity.

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