Boards›Player Behavior

My opinion on toxicity in league

BronzeFlashbacks··3 votes·1,457 views

Firstly, I will start by saying that I don't believe toxicity should be punished with perma bans.Chat restrict for sure and I don't mean the 3 messages per game restrict,I am all for not allowing that person to type anything for a set amount of games. For example,first time you are toxic and get punished ,you should get the classic 10 games chat restrict with limited number of messages(start mild ).After that you should get 20 games.If toxicity persists,give them 40 then 80 and so on chat restrict but with inability to type anything. The person either gives up flaming or he gives up on its right to type anything for a long period of time. Secondly, I believe there must be more acceptance towards ranked games toxicity.Competition will breed rage,frustration and flaming is for most players a method to vent. Take for example the korean server.It's like a culture of toxicity there.People flame so much and it's no problem.Ranked it's all about playing better and better,improving your skill level and koreans take ranked really serious and care a lot about improving.Hence why their players dominate by far all that means lol competition.

If people want to have fun,just play some normals.I really hate people flaming in a normal game since it's just meant to be casual,but in ranked I expect people to try give their best,don't troll.I don't mind if we all call each other names if we win the game. Flamers get angry because they want to win the game and they might think the other team mates are responsible for making them lose.Sometimes it's true ,sometimes it's not.

Just let people get whatever inner problems out.Just mute them,ignore them or flame back.All that matters is perfecting your skill and winning.

If this was understood in the european and na servers,maybe the ranked ladder will improve and pro players would be able to practice in a more competitive environment .

Better solo queue ladder--->better professional players----> better results.

32 Comments

Kei1435 votes

Toxicity doesn't suddenly make people play better.

VorpalKitsune3 votes

Exactly, it does the opposite. At least to the majority of people out there.

BronzeFlashbacks2 votes

I said that toxicity is something that must be accepted more in a competitive environment ,not that it makes players play better.Getting perma banned is not a problem for the good players that want to climb and are toxic in korea.All good players get angry and flame in some way with few exceptions.I say they shouldn't be punished that hard for it.

AeroWaffle2 votes

toxicity is something that must be accepted more in a competitive environment

Why?

BronzeFlashbacks1 votes

Because it's competitive-it's about getting better at the game not having a nice experience in game.Want to have fun,queue for a normal.

AeroWaffle4 votes

Is there a reason why you believe getting better at the game and having a nice experience have to be mutually exclusive?

Kei1435 votes

One doesn't need to be toxic to be competitive.

You can get into heated debates about how the game is played, but you can do that respectfully without harassing and insulting others.

AeroWaffle4 votes

The perma chat restrict thing was tried in a sense. You could stack games of chat restriction indefinitely the more you misbehaved. To the point where some people had hundreds sometimes thousands of games restricted.

Riot found when such people wanted to misbehave, but couldn't because they expended their chat, they just used other outlets. Like trolling. And not always the obvious trolling either, but trolling that's often hard to detect.

Preventing them from using chat didn't solve the problem, they just used other means to show their frustration with the team. So that placed them into a situation where they were still making the game unenjoyable for others because of their behavior, but now they were doing it in a way that's less likely to be detected.

BronzeFlashbacks1 votes

Then riot should simply try and do something about trolling and inting.Like I feel like they just don't care.The only report that leads to banning is the toxicity one.Why don't they deal with the real problem?Trolls,inters. Like if someone is reported like 6 times a game for troll and 3-4 times the next game,it's clearly he might actually be trolling.Like any human being can detect trolling if they simply watch 5-10 of a game.It's not that hard... Hmm,how about they implement also a chat filter that detects words like "i will int","open mid","I will run it down" or something word based that correlated with the score,items and the numbers of troll reports give a better determination of the fact the player trolled or not.

AeroWaffle3 votes

Poor chat behavior is easy to detect and hold someone accountable for. You can't accidentally insult someone throughout the entire match or tell them to uninstall, etc.

But playing poorly is not against the rules. Playing poorly intentionally is. So Riot needs to be sure that the player is making a poor play intentionally. Not nearly an easy task to do in many cases.

In your examples not a single one of those is a clear indicator that they are actually trolling. Score, reports, or even threats to troll are not guaranteed indicators (though the threat to troll would likely be caught for poor chat behavior). This is all compounded by Riot having millions of games being played with plenty of salty players reporting a teammate for "intentionally feeding" just because they played poorly.

BronzeFlashbacks1 votes

What I said is that these indicators should issue an investigation from a riot employee to look into it.And it's fairly easy to determine if the player played bad,was tilted from previously games or if he inted. Like if 3 people that know the game pretty well sit and watch 5-10 of the game and check the player statistics,in game messages and all of this,it's not hard to determine if it was troll or not.

AeroWaffle3 votes

Manual reviews are done (saw someone get banned for Anivia troll walling recently), but even a human needs to be pretty damn sure that the person is intentionally feeding and is not just having an extremely off game (extremely distracted, sleepy, etc). And I think you're underestimating how many games are being played per day.

Using one of the google results as the stat source (searched "league of legends number of games played per day"), lets assume that each of those 4.2 million players only play one game then finish for the day. That would be 420k games.

Let's further lowball it and assume that only 1% of those games have someone that trolls in it. That's still 4.2k games to review each day. And this isn't a quick chat review, but a review of gameplay. That's way too many people to dedicate solely to reviewing games.

I bet Riot can only manually review a fraction of a fraction of games that deserve to be manually reviewed.

Edit: Edited out the direct link to the source because they were also selling things I don't want to advertise.

BronzeFlashbacks1 votes

I say if a player accumulates like an insane amount of troll reports in a short period of time.Let's say he got 12 troll reports in 3-4 games,he has a kda under 1 in all of these games,damage done as a non support,non tank equal to 1k or 2k in a 20 min game and he has items that are way different than normal items for that champ, an investigation should happen. There must be a lots of ifs before resorting to an manual investigation.These indicators should confirm the fact that the player could have trolled these games. The confirmation will be given by people that work for riot. To do all these ifs,get reported at the same many times rises suspicion of trolling and there are for sure very few players a day that will fit in this bracket,so very few games will be reviewed a day. Cause it's definetely a thing that's debatable,if the person really trolled or not,they can give up to 3 account suspensions before perma banning it.

AeroWaffle1 votes

I say if a player accumulates like an insane amount of troll reports in a short period of time.Let's say he got 12 troll reports in 3-4 games,he has a kda under 1 in all of these games,damage done as a non support,non tank equal to 1k or 2k in a 20 min game and he has items that are way different than normal items for that champ, an investigation should happen. There must be a lots of ifs before resorting to an manual investigation.These indicators should confirm the fact that the player could have trolled these games. The confirmation will be given by people that work for riot. To do all these ifs,get reported at the same many times rises suspicion of trolling and there are for sure very few players a day that will fit in this bracket,so very few games will be reviewed a day.

As I said, 1% of games of a lowballed 420k games per day still led to 4.2k games per day. Riot likely already applies several limiting factors such as being reported several times across several games or damage stats before devoting precious manpower into the review. It would be unmanageable otherwise.

Cause it's definetely a thing that's debatable,if the person really trolled or not,they can give up to 3 account suspensions before perma banning it.

No.

There needs to be zero ban for players that are not trolling, even if it's suspicious. A false positive (falsely banned for trolling) is far worse than a false negative (falsely found innocent of trolling). Falsely banning someone for trolling sends a message to the community that you can be banned for playing poorly even if you don't mean to play poorly.

BronzeFlashbacks1 votes

I believe you really don't understand my point.I said they should implement as many review limitators as possible,but when it happens ,and it's for sure less than 1%,way less if they put a really restrictive filter. I said the 3 suspensions such that the player wont be banned imediately after.After 3 suspensions there are high chances that he really trolled so he should be punished accordingly. Let's say the filter is <1kda,10 reports in the last 3 games for trolling,strange items,trolllike(full tears,moby),less damage than 1k or 2k as non support in all these 3 games and I guarantee that very few games will get pass this filter. I really want you to find me 3 games in a row that fill this criteria.I bet you wont find almost anything that fits it.

AeroWaffle1 votes

Your problem is now that your criteria is too restrictive, which leads back to the problem that a lot of trolling is done in ways that's hard to detect (which was the problem with the indefinite chat restrictions).

Based on your criteria, someone can troll every 3 games. Based on your criteria someone can troll by following the jungler around trying to steal all the camps. Based on your criteria someone can troll by eating people as tahm kench and spit them out in bad locations constantly.

BronzeFlashbacks1 votes

I am not here to solve riot's problems.I am here to say that there are for sure some solutions that can be implemented in order to detect and punish a good amount of trolls.The fact that a company with one of the largest revenues in the game industry wont even try after 9-10 years to at least try to tackle the problem in some sort of way is annoying me.There are solutions for sure that can be found. My solution is the most efficient but it can for sure remove a very small part of the problem,it's a step in the right way,it's an attempt to solve the problem.

AeroWaffle2 votes

You're not here asking for Riot to improve their troll detection (and even that is kinda worthless without decent suggestions).

You're here saying that Riot shouldn't be banning people for poor chat behavior.

BronzeFlashbacks1 votes

I am saying they shouldnt be banned, for chat behavior,if it anyone that deserves banning it's trolls.I didn't came to make sugestions about how to detect the trolls, I just said some solutions I think might work along the way cause the discusion got there.

Sliythe1 votes

but not everyone would resort to trolling when they cant talk.. me for example when im chat restricted i simply dont talk and do what i can to win even if 5/10 people that are perma chat restricted dont resort to trolling then thats a 50% decrease of toxicness.. they should seriously implement it.

AeroWaffle2 votes

But you're only chat restricted.

We're talking about people who would have been perma'ed in the current system. People who kept on behaving poorly despite being told and punished multiple times as a message from Riot to stop misbehaving.

BronzeFlashbacks1 votes

He is right though.Most people that get chat restrict don't resort to trolling.Just the really few that are super toxic will do it.The chat restrict is definetely a good thing to have.

AeroWaffle2 votes

My point is that people who earned indefinite chat restrictions are not the same group of players that only got one chat restriction.

The people who only get one chat restriction and stopped... stopped.

The people who constantly got chat restriction stack after chat restriction stack often did not stop their poor behavior just because they were prevented from chatting.

BronzeFlashbacks1 votes

That's 0 logic dude.I know lots of toxic chat players that wont troll their games for nothing in the world.They cant flame they wont exhibit their toxic behavior in other way.You are just generalising. People that int will do it cause it's in their nature.They wont resort to it after getting a 80 games chat restrict.It's either a thing they do or don't.

AeroWaffle2 votes

Given it was based on previous precedent where it actually happened, it doesn't really matter if you don't accept it.

Will all these players turn to trolling if they were perma-muted instead of perma-banned? No, but enough of them did for the system to be removed. Similar to the level 20 challenge held way back, where perma'ed players had a chance to get back their account if they could reach level 20 without showing poor behavior. 5% succeeded, but that wasn't worth the effort and ruined games the other 95% caused.

BronzeFlashbacks1 votes

Ok,so lets see if I get this.Let's simply ban toxic players that if you mute them hurt the game in no way and let trolling players after 9-10 years of this game existing to roam free ,the ones that really hurt the game. That's one of the things I hate about the game.It never solves the problems that really matter.

VorpalKitsune1 votes

Yes, 50% reduced toxicity in chat for a hefty increase in toxicity in game play, a form that is harder to catch and punish. This results in a lot more games overall ruined, making a lot more people have bad games. Totally not worth it.

BronzeFlashbacks1 votes

I dont know where did you guys find the link between people that get report for flame and get chat restrict and the fact that they will resort to trolling.Like there is no proof of such thing.

VorpalKitsune1 votes

I would have to look, but it was something that Riot Tantram said in one of the many other post calling for perma chat restrictions instead of perma bans for chat. It pretty much came down to that those people that got effectively perma chat restricted just started to troll in other ways to express their anger, which I harder to catch without punishing innocents. If anyone else has a link to it, would be nice if you could share.

BronzeFlashbacks1 votes

There seems to be a real mentality problem in with na and europe and for sure they will never rise to the level of korea. They are banning some of their most best players(Ex for na:tardzaned,consensual clown) from tournaments.They go with this fun mentality in ranked games and then they cry when people that actually try get angry.They just pick whatever they feel like in ranked,no comp in mind,no nothing in mind,they just go whatever. Like for real ,from such solo queues of course all that gets out it's a bunch of failed teams ,sent to worlds to be destroyed,kicked out even before groups. If in riot's eyes to get rid of just toxicity and do nothing about players that troll is an ok thing,if they try nothing at all to encourage the local talent to develop and make a show at tournaments then I guess the game is perfect the way it is. I got off topic but I am so tired of seeing all the wrong problems getting attention when what really matters it's left unsolved for so many years. Guess korean team and hybrid koreans team will win the worlds again.

osnapitzhani1 votes

OMG AGREED COULDNT AGREE MORE. NA TOOO SENSITIVE!! EVERYONE CRYING!!!! I DIDNT EVEN CURSE N GOT BANNED!!!

BronzeFlashbacks1 votes

So many people that barely play ranked games start jumping to give opinions.Just look at the way games go.Players pick all kind of random shit that's not good in a ranked game and then they intentionally contribute to the defeat. Many people just started to give up in na to play competitively cause if they get annoyed and say something about the players that did things that got them to lose the game,they will be the one punished and not the ones that intentionally contributed to losing the game. It's sad to see ranked lacking so much of competitive spirit and desire to win and perfect the skill.

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